I have now outright agreed and disagreed with posters as different as:

mcjules, Socawho, 433, Crusader, Murdoch Rags and 11.mvfc.11.

Obviously on completely different issues. But that takes some doing. :d

You truly are one of a kind...I applaud you for being eccentric=d>

im just shattered ill have to get work permits for players in fm now

You're making the false judgement that the EU Block are not just as good as countries. That is very arrogant.

I personally think Monarchists are not very bright. Every other country would basically laugh at us for the Monarchy and the Union Jack. At least Canada changed its flag so it at least gives the impression of total sovereignty.

It's about impressions. And Australia comes across as an insecure and immature young country still holding onto Mama's apron strings. It's like the kid that hasn't moved out at the age of 40. :lol:

That might be what you see but it isn't what I see. Also I don't care for example what a Greek thinks when he looks at the Australian flag. I'm not so insecure.

Edited by scott21: 25/6/2016 12:49:23 AM

You said that much better than I can (in English, French or Swedish).

Oh well, then I guess Australia hasn't come of age.

Put it this way! I don't really give a flying fuck myself.

I am an EU dual citizen, and I plan to retire in Europe and be buried there. No bloody way will I retire here.

This is the arse end of the world anyway and no one in Europe even knows the capital of Australia because most people think its either Sydney or Melbourne.

Edited by Aikhme: 25/6/2016 01:04:51 AM

Fark it's not a debating contest, it's not a court of law. It doesn't have to be rational, it's an opinion.

Should a foreign born, inbred German, reigning by an accident of birth (not merit) be the figurative or literal head of state of Australia or in fact any country?

Fuck no.

What don't you understand about that?

I don't give a fuck what it means in a legal sense and you can blather on all day, as I predicted, if you want but it won't change my mind.

It's a symbol of an outdated anachronistic system that has no place in this day and age in our country. England are welcome to it.

Other countries, in the main, are not stupid enough (or have moved on from) having a foreign monarch 'preside' over them and have removed their coloniser's flag from their flag.

If only we had the brains to wake up to ourselves.

Swap the Queen for the Pope or George W Bush or Desmond Tutu or any other foreign dignity or statesman as our "figurative/literal" head of state and come back and tell me that'd be a good idea.

You can't because it's bullshit.

Sounds to me like the one with the problem is yourself, how inconvenient for you....

so Aikhme wants to retire in far left europe because he is embarrassed that we have a queen with no power and people don't know our capital city's name :-k

This is definitely a symbolic victory for racists. But in terms of real world consequences the waters are murky for me
I think its hard to predict whether this will be good or bad for brittian although in the short term the shock might cause a recession
The worst case scenario is brexit leads to some disgusting policies adopted in the uk like our off shore processing
the best case is it leads to a grexit (which probably is there only hope imo although it might cause insane carnage in the short term)

With the European media its the main story right now, no doubt there would be some consequences in the short to long term, what is the UK thinking!

Their british pound and stock exchange have suffered huge hits already, economically its not off to a great start!

Also it looks like the Scots are on the verge of another referendum for the possible 'republican' movement, take 2 ;)

And along with the fact that Trump is even considered as a contender for the next US. president, the world right now is on some sort of acid trip and it ain't stopping any time soon its quite scary to think what would happen next lol.

You mean I am blessed!

Have that as an option and I intend on using those options.

If you don't like it, that is your problem.

I just said I couldn't care less what flag Australia has or what head of state. That is for people like you to contend with.

When the time comes, I'm in the Med.. Why the hell would I stay here for?

Edited by Aikhme: 25/6/2016 02:12:42 AM

This is a big win for the Far Right , which isn't good...however if you took the immigration issue out of the debate I'm sure they would have stayed...

The events in Paris, Brussels , migrant problems in Germany and Sweden imo tipped this thing over.

Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 02:08:35 AM

Why don't you just leave now?

-PB

For sure!

Its well and good for the intellegencia in London working in the finance industry to get fat and wealthy from open borders and globalisation

Meanwhile those who actually make things have to accept their industries going offshore, and compete locally with migrants who tip the scales far in the employers favour for jobs, compete for housing, see the strain on the education, transport and health systems which have not been upgraded to cope (sounds like Melbourne actually)

Good on them for sticking it up to the intellectuals. There will be short term pain, but they Brits will come out of better and stronger.

I rarely discuss politics on this forum, because I do a lot of it off forum.

My political views are left wing.

I've recently been in Europe for six weeks and have read a lot of arguments for and against leaving in some decent media in England - BBC, The Times ( cannot believe Murdoch owns this, when I occasionally read his very right wing Australian), Telegraph, Independent, the Guardian.

Leaving Europe has been a good outcome for UKIP. They are a right wing organisation. England is already a very densely populated country, with not a lot more space to accommodate more immigrants/refugees. UKIP have an agenda that has been useful as part of a more diverse debate.

Compared to England, Spain, France and Germany are less densely populated. The same with Scotland and some of the Scandinavian countries. There is more scope for immigration in these countries.

The Labour Party and the Conservative party are split on the Leave/Remain issue, but with the majority wanting to stay in the EU in both parties.

In the Conservatives, Cameron and Osborne have been the leaders of remain. Then from the same party Boris Johnson and Michael Gove emerged to prove credible and persuasive arguments for leaving.

Labour provided little leadership in the debate . Labour's Jeremy Corbin appears to have been vacillating.

Most Labour politicians were keen to stay, despite plenty wanting to leave. They had to get Gordon Brown to provide leadership. Much of his argument for staying was emotive and based on rhetoric, even though it was an impressive performance.

The trade union upper echelons wanted to stay in the EU. This is despite many migrants undercutting award wages and lowering them by working for a lot less. Many English have been displaced.

80% of decisions on laws in the UK are made by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

I felt like more arguments made by the remain group were emotive and based on rhetoric compared to those wanting to leave.


It appears that many of the affluent and successful have gained from being in the EU. However, many in the regions have been disadvantaged.

I see this leave vote as a victory for democracy. More politicians and experts wanted to stay in the EU, while the average citizens wanted to leave.

I would have voted to leave the EU.

It has been a fascinating and unique event to have protagonists for the same parties slagging each other off. Labour and the Conservatives were very cautious about supporting each other's positions to remain.

PM Cameron needed opposition leader Corbin's support to win. Because the two traditional adversarial parties wouldn't present a united front, lost them the referendum.

Even though I abhor just about all Liberal politicians in Australia, I was very impressed with Conservative Michael Gove going into his former Scottish fishing communities and interacting with fishers. Unlike most Australian Liberal politicians he seems to like people and have empathy for them.

In the UK about a third have lost their employment through EU quotas and restrictions, which are sometimes arrived at through corrupt means. Empirically this occurs. Normatively it shouldn't.







Edited by Decentric: 25/6/2016 10:48:01 AM

I did so in subsequent parts of my post.


Not an assumption a simplification. The G-G was put in to represent the Queen and perform her role.

Probably but this is a football forum and I don't think I need to write a dissertation on the subject

These days yes. These days the Queen does absolutely nothing except appoint (and potentially sack) the G-G on advice of the prime minister. In practice she's is never going to do anything different, even if we're on the brink of civil war here. We have our independence assured as part of the 1986 Australia Act. So why have the Queen involved at all? She's completely unnecessary to maintain what we have. It's a nod to our British past and nothing else, if you believe that's a good thing that's one thing but to suggest she improves the system is disingenuous.

There's an emotional component to the argument, becoming a republic is one of symbolism more so than practicalities of the day to day. People being aware (both internally and externally) of our true independence will have positive flow on effects to many areas.

The prime minister, the government, the G-G or anyone in Australia thinks, even for a second that "hypothetically" the Queen could sack the G-G over an issue. They know that it's actually the Prime Minister who can do that. It's completely unnecessary.

The Queen does it on advice of the prime minister. She'll never act unilaterally so what's the point?

If you want to see an example where a G-G was made to resign rather than sacked, that's exactly what happened with Hollingsworth in 2005. A bunch of ministers called for him to resign publically and then he stood down.

The Queen is never going to intervene, even if she thought it wasn't a good idea.

Same thing, she will not get involved. What possible scenario could you see her getting involved?

Maybe for you but not for many of us. Plus you had a go at the "emotional appeal" of removing the foreign monarch but then you include this? :lol:

Source?

I was being a bit facetious with this but you'd be naive if you thought that there isn't republican movements in those countries with varying levels of support.

As for the Québécois. Ceci explique tout! The reasonable ones, who account for the majority, have no such inferiority complex unlike many in Australia.[/quote]The person who claims that we need the queen as a final check and balance to save us from ourselves thinks that we're the ones with an inferiority complex? :lol:

A mutant tory party led by Boris with the support of Farange is really going to look after the workers :lol:

Nice. People that don't want their country overrun by third world immigrants and subsequently lowering the living standards and changing the face of their society are racists.

Talking to mates still there they're saying wages haven't moved in the 18 years since I lived there. That's what happens when 100 000's of Poles and Hungarians etc flood the country looking for work.

I'm all for a multicultural Australia but Europe is another matter.

I think leaving the EU is a bad idea but I understand why they voted the way they did.

Reports already in that France are seeking to remove the deal that allows the UK the right to inspect papers in Calais/on French soil :lol:

Great work guys, really going to help out the immigration bit now considering you can't even check them until they're in the country :lol:

They'll just check them at immigration in the UK. How will that hinder them from not admitting them?

It won't.

Irony meltdown

Sigh ...you won't even let time run its course before judging whether it is good or bad
Coming from a socialist who is ashamed to be called one :lol: , doesn't deny being one yet calls me ill informed :-k

suck up the result princess ...the people have voted

Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 01:38:46 PM

If you don't think racism wasn't a factor you need some of my facebook friends :D
or a look at some tabloid front pages or listen to some things some ukip pollies have said

As for lower class wage stagnation

Real wages have been stagnant for the working class for decades in many countries. Here is usa
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
Also australia's real wages for lower class workers have only improved in the last few decades due to people working longer hours

Immigration of low skilled workers are part of the picture although at least there is a silver lining that at least some poor people from other countries get a better life. They also raise gdp per capita overall but they also do appear to put downward pressure on lower class wages.
Another part of the picture is the lifting of trade barriers putting downward pressure on wages for low skilled labour. Again this looks to make a slight increase in gdp per capita at the cost of downward pressure on lower class wages.
Probably the largest part of the picture is neoliberalism in particular union busting and the breakdown of the welfare state. A strong welfare state means that companies have to compete with a guaranteed income to get employees so they have to make conditions much better. Unions of course put upward pressure on lower class wages.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/683117/US-and-Canada-lead-promises-to-maintain-trade-relations-with-Britain-outside-the-EU


I thought Britain was going to collapse on itself :lol:

Yep, Labor and their mass immigration have really helped then out :lol:

Good video on how the parties are so out of touch with the people

[youtube]LnCvl2T_o5o[/youtube]

I was cheering on the grexit but was lukewarm about brexit slightly favoring remain

now I'm a little disheartened because it seems that at least some proportion of the leave vote are willing to risk a recession to spite immigrants!

Having said that I think small government area leads to better support for left wing causes and less corporate lobbying and the eu has some disturbing anti-democratic tendancies
Also a brexit could lead to a grexit which i think is their best shot

having said that I am pretty concerned about a scottish exit (sexit?) If scotland leaves that would possibly make england the most economically conservative country on the planet. Their gini is already 4th amongst rich market democracies after usa singapore and hong kong. If scotland leave say goodbye to the nhs and probably the bbc