My political views are along way to the left, still being a sometime political activist.


Yet I would still have voted to leave, even though I'm supposedly identified as having a background that is consistent with remainers.

I see the result as a victory for the masses over the majority of;

senior politicians;

biased media ( particularly here in Australia, as I rate our media far, far worse than the English better quality media, and French media). I've hardly seen any stories after the event as positive in the media;

capitalists (even though there are many capitalists who see financial gain in leaving);

British regional citizens as opposed to London residents;

elitists;

who have I missed?


Many of the aforementioned groups were telling many of the regional dwellers and the disempowered how good EU membership was, when their quality of life in the regions was perceived by them to be declining.

The fact that some nefarious groups have used the race issue to launch vitriolic attacks at ethnic groups is abhorrent.

Many of the remainers, are having difficulty accepting democracy, because they disagree with the result.

Racial vilification is abhorrent.

However, it is not the only issue that the Leave voters considered.

It is one of many.

Wow!

I've been told that the Teegraph is right wing.

Compared to the Australian it is a radical publication.

To its credit, I felt like I derived a lot of info arguing both sides of the issue from it.

The Australian loves the right wing faction of the Liberal Party. Liberal is a misnomer. They derive all their ideology from the American Institute Of Public Affairs - a right wing think tank, funded by all sorts of nefarious right wing interests.

The Liberal Party should be called the Christian Conservatives, or something similar, because they are well to the right of the British Conservative Party and getting forever closer to the American Republicans.

The Australian newspaper is becoming an increasing mouthpiece for the Liberals and the American IPA , although they perplexingly don't like Turnbull, who has continued with most of Abbott's nefarious programs.

Edited by Decentric: 28/6/2016 10:52:42 PM

Once upon a time, being "Liberal" in Australia was not a misnomer. It was never perfect. But the likes of Malcolm Fraser made the party somewhat in keeping with J.S. Mills' liberalism- namely protecting and promoting the rights of the individual. The Fraser Government was probably the first in the world to act against the Apartheid Regime.

Unfortunately, the current Liberal Party has greatly departed from that kind of policy (hence Malcolm Fraser decided not to support the Libs any more). To a point they may care about the rights of the individual, but it's very neoliberal these days.

Edited by quickflick: 28/6/2016 11:25:49 PM

Fraser was closer to a genuine Liberal, although he launched the 'dole bludger' campaign, attacking the victim not the system.

His work repudiating apartheid was admirable.

don't worry remainers , there will be another refredendum at the end of the negotiations, the 2 options will be1. eea membership which will cost more in contributions, less influence , free movement of peoples , some eu laws have to be adopted but you have no say. or 2. stay in .

Brilliant speech by Farage...

[youtube]woaS1b_seEM[/youtube]

He says it like it is.

Europeans are denial about the political union and single currency. All they have managed to do is bring poverty and misery to millions in the Mediterranean countries.

The EU have literally imposed poverty on some countries.

GREXIT and CYEXIT next.

EU can F@#k OFF!

It's plausible that Britain may end up having a Swiss-like deal with the EU. I don't rule that out.

But it would be a travesty if there was a second referendum at the end of negotiations.

Unless something about the first one (or the prospect of exiting the EU in general) is unconstitutional, it would be absurd to have a second referendum. I think they should have voted to stay in. But if they have a second referendum, it will basically be like taking a massive crap on a legitimate democratic outcome (in an area where popular consent legitimately governs). In some areas, democracy cannot be used, constitutionally or ethically, to decide an outcome (e.g. if somebody should be executed). But, here, Parliament decided that Britain's membership within the EU was best decided, in keeping with British constitutional practice, by a referendum.

You can't then have a sook and cancel it. At least, not in the short term.

I agree
I'm a euroskeptic and was lukewarm about the vote slightly in favour of remain but don't care a lot either way

Having said that tabloids in the lead up to brexit repeatedly stoked racism as did ukip and you could argue members of the conservative party did too (perhaps labour did too?)

If you stir up racism to get a political result the campaigners are definitely partly responsible for the racism that follows the political victory

situations like this really need leadership from the leave campaign to not act defensive and distance their movement from racism

sadly that doesn't happen

No there won't be.

The EU won't give the UK the right to determine the terms of the exit.

There will be negotiations for sure, but the EU will ultimately decide.

Germany depends more on the UK than vice versa. You think the EU will play hardball with the UK when it will only hurt themselves?

Financial Markets are now recovering with the ASX 300 up 1.5% today.

Overall, they are down just 2% from just before BREXIT.

Britain is going to be just fine. In fact, everyone is just scared about them doing better than Eurozone Countries.

yep...all the EU people acting like babies right now, if they keep acting like this, the UK should thank god they got out

The only reason it went down so much was that people were betting on a Remain victory, so they bought anticipating an equity price increase after the announcement - prices were wildly over-inflated. When Leave won, they all panicked and sold because they thought everyone else would panic and sell, thus lowering the price.

The markets are not an indicator of the health of the economy, just the confidence of investors and them speculating on what they predict will happen.





Edited by 433: 29/6/2016 01:50:32 PM

what has been happening , if the 1st referendum doesn't go the way the EU wants, then EU just keep holding referendums on till they get the result the EU wants :lol:

but i don't believe they be able to do this in the UK, the people will not let it happen... it will kill democracy if they tried

The EU is a failed political construction.

The EURO is also a failure. Anyone from Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain or Ireland can confirm this.

Britain can count its lucky stars.

The EU are now trying quite successfully to trap Greece and others. Since the debt is in Euros, the only way out will be civil war. They will get their wish within the next 5 years when the people have had enough of the austerity.

Only issue is that many lives will be lost!

I didn't say that.

What I said was that they won't give UK 2 options to put to their people in a referendum.

UK is FAR more reliant on the EU than the EU is on the UK in terms of trade.

What people don't understand is that much of what is sold to the UK can be picked up by other EU countries.

The UK will have much more of a problem offloading their goods.

The fact is the EU market is 400-450 million people, whereas the UK is about 55 million. That automatically makes it harder for the UK.

The EU won't go out of their way to make the UK suffer. But they need the transition to be painful enough to discourage other countries from leaving as well.

What are you talking about? How are the EU "people acting like babies"???

Its the UK who is backing away from implementing the Section 50 exit clause!

All the carry on and heckling in Parliament was atrocious.

It is up to the British people, and just because they want control of their country is no reason for the EU to act like porked chops.

Britain is very lucky.

If Greece tried to exit it will go to the Drachma with 437 Billion in debt in Euro currency. They have trapped this country.

There is no way out without famine on the streets.

It is a real shame, but the best thing for Greece is default and getting kicked out. That is the only way out, or of course war is another way.

As Nigel Farage has said just yesterday, the EU has been good at implementing poverty in the Med.

Edited by Aikhme: 29/6/2016 03:02:51 PM

It also assumes that there's uniform trade across all sectors, it's quite possible for the trade deal to be biased towards things that benefit the EU over the UK.

Right or wrong how refreshing is it to hear a politician stick it other bureaucrats.

"None of you have ever had a proper job"

LOL.

What are you talking about? The only thing stopping Greece from exiting and defaulting on the debt is the fact that they want to stay in the EU!

The EU is not a monolithic entity, it is made up of the countries in the EU.

I do think that the EU has put too much emphasis on austerity, and not enough on generating growth. But Greece (more specifically the political elite in Greece) is responsible for the position the economy is in!

Yeh, I really enjoyed that!

I also enjoyed how he was makingthe most of it. He mentioned Greece too. And he is 100% right.

Make no mistake. The little guy just had a major victory against the establishment and the EU will get its reality check and shake up. It is a gravy train of buearocratic technocrats.

What is interesting is how the SJW left leaning forum establishment here is supporting the EU against their principles they claim to hold dear.

Britain's accomplishment here is also Greece's victory even though they may not know it yet. Britain won't be the last.

And Greece will descend into mayhem if people can't survive.

The current administration won office on the premise that they were to take Greece out.

It back flipped! Hence why the fascists are now on the rise who will exit straight away.

Greece can't exit like Britain has, because inflation will hit Zimbabwe levels. People won't be able to buy groceries. The EU knew this with the Euro bail outs and not allowing QE.

A lot of people want GREXIT. It is gaining momentum.

I support Aikxit. I hope one day that ricecrackers gets a fucking life.

Ooh....such an intelligent chap you are! :lol:

it was a non-binding referendum, on till the UK parliament votes on it, it not even real...if the the UK MP don't vote to make it a new act, then the UK not leaving,,,..The UK has the right to take as long as it wants to decide the best way to listen to it's people opinion

so all this bullshit from the EU commission, and other EU MEP to act fast, is not in anyone best interest....the UK has almost 3m citizens of other EU countries , mostly from the poorer Eastern European countries , what happens to these people lives should be very important...what happens to a country like Latvia , when 5% of there citizens who now live England , what happen to all the Polish?....those people who live 5 years in the UK , can get permanent residence, but those who haven't are now to be kick out of the UK

The UK, Ireland and Norway, took most of the Eastern Europe work forces that left there poorer countries , it wasn't Germany or France, or Italy that took them...do those people now go home? do they go to France, do even more go to Ireland, what happens when 1m plus Eastern European go home, what happens to wagers in those Eastern European countries?

Trade
the UK has a massive trade deficit with the EU, this mean every time some one say we not going to give preferential access to the EU markets for the UK, those EU people are also saying, we want to make it harder for the EU companies to sell to customers who buys more then what they sell (we want cost us more jobs then it will cost you)

what the EU MEP and EU commissioners have said over the weekend and yesterday...we want to punish are citizens hard and fast, because we are afraid of losing are jobs

Grexit will happen. Sooner rather than later.

is rice crackers Greek?

Yes, and how many if those are under-employed or have seen their real wages cut over time?



Been happening for far longer than the GFC. In the UK in the 80's Thatcherism destroyed the living standards of the working class. Reaganomics did that in the US.



Its the middle class whose wages have remained stagnant over decades in the US. These are people who in previous generations would have worked in manufacturing.



Yes we can buy washing machines, fridges and TV's and cars cheaper from Korea. Which need to be replaced more frequently due to inferior componentry

Besides much of this is due to production line efficiencies which could be implemented locally.

But the guy working on the line of 3 bowls of rice per day will win the contract over the guy wanting $300 per day.

When living standards are so disparate, free trade is a joke.



yes more trinkets that need endless "upgrades".



Edited by enzo bearzot: 29/6/2016 04:01:06 PM