I'd suggest you investigate lobby groups and what their MO is. In effect you need to create a lobby group that petitions the FFA / Club board to meet your demands.

Short of making our voices heard / lobbying (and that our voice is that of the majority), you'd have to be in a position of power yourself to make sure it happens (or have a supporter in that position ... again which would probably come via a lobby group). 

Stop attending a closed league

step 1: stop thinking the a-league as a national league when it is a closed shop continent competition and yes that matters!

You need to think of solutions for continents not nations

sokorny

No one is debating whether or not the clubs should run the professional competition.... take it as a given that is what is wanted...

The question then becomes how do we alien nay protect that system copying the MLS system rather than a general term the European system [which many leagues have copied].

The essential difference between the MLS club owned system and say the European club owned system .... is in the MLS its a closed franchise with massive licence fees to join and the existing clubs get to decide who come in.... meaning P & R will never be introduced nor is it likely an existing NPL club will get in.... the European system as you would be aware has various divisions and you go up or down depending on performance.

WE enter the new times the FIFA installed local committee met's...   they will decide on how the new board to run FFA will operate....

The new board will in turn decide how to run Hal... the expectation is the new board will hand over running of Hal to the clubs.

Assuming this happens.... my question is how do we ensure ... the new board creates a European type system .... not an MLS type system...

Bear in mind the PFA favour the MLS system and have openly put down the NPL teams financial structures.... and the Viv Federation has stated they believe the clubs have not come with clean hands they want control.

Simply I and most don't want to change from a FFA closed franchise model for a club closed franchise model...  how do we stop this from happening ... 

Sounds like the EFL and NL are 'privately' owned / runned with the clubs as shareholders / members.

Those under that level appear to be similar to how state / local associations are run in Australia (more "regulatory" body than a private business).

EPL pays out parachute payments to relegated clubs (over 3 years I believe), and gives promoted clubs a bigger slice of the pie first year up. I believe the revenue of the EPL from sponsors, TV rights etc. are evenly shared amongst teams for a certain percentage (believe 100% of international TV rights are split evenly amongst all clubs), with the rest distributed depending on league position (prize money).

In regards to sponsors, crowds, marketing etc. whilst it is true clubs largely don't do a great job on this front, if they combined their efforts though you'd imagine they'd be able to do a lot better (so instead of Sydney only worried about Sydney, Victory worried about Victory, you'd have a consolidated front for marketing the league as a whole ... look at the EPL again, everything is about the league ... that is the brand, and the clubs are merchandise for that brand).

In regards to the EPL the Clubs are shareholders and they elect a corporate body to run the everyday business of the league (much the way of corporations / local governments). The FA retains veto rights on certain matters (inc. appointment of chariperson / CEO etc.) So in effect you have 20 teams of the EPL working together to make the league bigger and better each year, and the corporate body acts on what is best for the league as a whole NOT the individual clubs, as those shareholders change each and every year).

I'm not saying the EPL is a perfect system, but it shows that club's can very successfully 'run' a national soccer competition.

There isn't much cash to bequeath unto the lower clubs as it would involve less dosh on A-league playing staff a catch 21

People here are making the mistake of thinking the a-league is a national league when  it is a closed shop continent competition what we need is an extra  group of ten teams with a top 8 final series 

How many are club owned like EPL and Not board run under FA ( could not see much about ownership)

The games needs an Independent Body to avoid the petty jealousies and bickering that will inevitably occur if Clubs run the game
AFL was going nowhere when the Clubs ran it and since an independent board took over its flying. Why - because an Independent Board has the interest of the game as their priority not the interest of an individual club. They make the hard decisions for the good of the game that Clubs would otherwise avoid, eg subsidising poor clubs at the expense of rich clubs.

Do you actually think Clubs running the HAL would make hard or unpopular decision for the betterment of the league - obviously not as the AFL example above proves..

Most HAL CLUBS lack the ability to attract sponsors and crowds, or market themselves successfully. So given they are failing so badly in getting their own houses in order, how can we have any confidence that they could manage the HAL.
If the converse was true, and all Clubs were as professional capable as MV - then clearly they will have demonstrated a professionalism that would warrant far more input in running the game. But still the issue of petty jealousy should preclude them taking over the game.

Giving the Clubs keys to HAL would guarantee disaster - and while FFA needs a major overhaul, I have no doubt if it was being run properly the HAL would thrive because its the best model for managing the game.

To stop the A-league becoming another MLS you need to speak and convince the following people;
Griffin
Sage
Pearce
Di Pietro
Charlesworth
Barlow
Their shared vision under the APFCA is a to have an MLS model.
Charging massive Licence Fees for entry into the A-League.

Sounds like The National League is then in charge of the two next tiers (National League, and then the two split conferences below)

Then under that sounds like local / regional / county associations run the league (like in Australia).

EFL run Championship, League One and League Two

So is it EPL Owner operated with P+R
            EFL  Owner operated with P+R  (With assistance for clubs dropping from EPL to EFL)
             Then the FA run leagues below?

As stated by @Mid the only other way would be for the FFA to dictate the football league structure in the country ... that is designate all tiers of competition in Australia (at least those oustide Sunday leagues) and mandate that open P/R is available between all divisions. Again there would be criteria to move up (as there currently is within state comps).

The A-League (and 2nd div) could be independently run but would still have to administrate the leagues according to FFA conditions. I think the FFA would be more willing to have open P/R if they didn't have to run the financial risk of the A-League and 2nd Division ... that is the state FAs would retain the ownership of the NPLs, a corporate body(ies) would own A-League / 2nd Div and FFA would simply administrate it all.

To make money out of the top tier the FFA could ask for it a few ways. Straight out fee from each club each year (this may include covering costs of admin, referees etc. etc.) - many local associations run their comps this way. Alternatively ask for a % of revenue / profit from clubs or the corporate body, a % from transfers (or admin fee, sort of a government tax / sales commission).

Well if those are your points for the concept (16 teams, two divisions, P/R) then we wouldn't have to be worried about a closed franchise system, unless you mean it is still closed to only teams in those two divisions (which given the climate in Australia I'd imagine you'd have a fair few dropping off and wanting to climb into the second division anyway ... if we assume it would be similar to the NSL "selling" power).

Furthermore if the concept is for 16 teams in the A-League, then the second division could be limited to 20 (or even more) ... which in effect keeps it a closed system to the top two tiers but you could have a fair bit of leniency in the second division with number of teams. Although I'd imagine entry to the second division could have quite strict criteria that not many clubs outside of the top 36 in the country could satisfy (in many smaller European comps teams struggle to step up from the amateur / semipro level to the pro level .... I'd imagine in Australia could even be a larger step up in many circumstances). I don't think many people would be disappointed with a 36 team two division closed competition.

And what makes you think they are in the business of repeating mistakes like the Australian sports administrators?

Lets try marquees
No. Lets try marquees
No. Lets try marquees

The people who were part of the J league and K League journey have know what went right, what went wrong, and they have something we can learn from so we don't have to take a 30 year journey. And I don't understand what the Korean government has to do with potential problems for the A League

Waz,   FIFA does not require the model you are describing its simply your preference and FIFA gives much greater authority to the FFA Board than you see it as having.  In its Standard Statutes FIFA gives an example for the structure of football where both the Championship and the Cup are organised by the MA (FFA).  In the next item it states that the Executive Committee (Board) can decide to delegate authority to a League to run a competition. So both an in house competition and one operating under delegation from the Board are fine by FIFA.  It further goes on to say that delegation by the Board can take the form of a comprehensive agreement controlling the running of the League.  The Board's role according to FIFA is to make decisions on all matter not specifically the responsibility of the Congress or the responsibility of some other party by law or by the Statutes.  In many of the specific responsibilities of the Congress their deliberations are to be made having received a recommendation from the Board in others they act on their own advice and similarly with the Board in some cases they act on the directive of the Congress and in most they act on their own.

There is an interesting precedent in the interaction between an independent league and an MA in France.  There the independent league (LFP) decided that with P/R they would change from 3 up 3 down to 2 up 2 down.  That decision was vetoed by the MA who believed that retaining 3 up 3 down was best for football.  The LFP was not allowed to run their leagues as they saw fit but as an organisation subordinate to the MA, as required by FIFA, they had to comply with the directive of the MA.  Independence in the FIFA system is not complete freedom.

O FFS this is where you fail to understand....

Everyone understands thats how it should work... this is just beyond silly ... at what point do you think I want the current model with Lowy too continue ... 

WHAT I SAID and please tell me where you disagree ...

       * We need an expand league I prefer a 16 team league

        * The league needs to be independent.

         *That we need to set up a second division

         *That we need P & R when we are ready..

I then said if we accept this as a concept .... understand if we ACCEPT THIS AS A CONCEPT ..

I then said how do we ensure ... that the independent HAL does not turn into an MLS type structure whereby the clubs own a closed franchise system,.

Actually I foolish believed you would be in support of how to achieve this ... rather than want to nit pick ... Moreover I through someone like yourself would be saying things lie we need to ensure the State Feds insist on P & R and not let the clubs have their way 

If you hand on heart not the other thing believe the existing A-League clubs of their free choice will put in P & R then you have far more faith and belief in their plans than I do.

Dont want to sound ignorant but isnt it like a MLS model except the league isnt independent? A franchise model? 

@ Mid

This is where you fail to understand how the model should work.

The FFA would set some form of principles or charter with a mandate from congress. That charter would be the basic principles of how the league would operate. That would include pro/rel.

An independent A League would then operate according to the charter. Member clubs would then be responsible for implementing the competition within the charter but otherwise operating as they see fit.

Only congress can authorise changes to the charter. The FFA just administer those changes.

That’s how FIFA want their members to operate. There’s varying models to get there but generally speaking that’s the model.

Lowy controls congress.
Therefore Lowy controls the FFA.
Therefore we have a closed model. MLS style.

I hope you are right, and I have said we are in an MLS model run by the FFA ... what I said we don't  want to replace the FFA MLS model ... with the Hal clubs MLS model...

I looked at the statement made by the Nix in the NZ media and it indicates they believe they will be in the league for years under a Hal club controlled model... 

BTW I read a lot of Football news and aside from A-League owners giving lip service to P & R some day I cannot recall a single owner saying they want it as part of the new arrangements..... I admire your faith that they will introduce it ...

Not sure where that understanding comes from

Also Charlesworth only mentioned it if it meant heaps of new buy in license fees to divvy to the current owners

Yep

@ RBB

Mid can’t see that. His primary concern is FFA funding not the actual model

Mid

We are always going to disagree. You keep trying to find ways to justify the FFA getting their hands on other people’s money. Look at what they get over a given 4 year cycle between world cups:

Registrations = $50m+ ($20 per rego?)
FIFA grant = $12m?
TV Money = $6m (away games)
Home games = $6m
Sponsorship = $8m

There’ll be other stuff as as they get grants from AFC and other tournament distribution well but that lot totals $82m+ depending on the Regos.

That’s at least $20m/year which is $2m EACH to run those 9 sides you mention and $2m to run the FFA’s overheads.

That’s more than enough.

My understanding is that most of the clubs are in favour of P & R, including the Mariners. So not sure why you think clubs are looking to implement an MLS model. We are already an MLS model.

@ Blew.2

The FA don’t run the English championship. That’s run by the English Football League (EFL) which is independent of the FA.

Back on topic

How do we go about stopping an MLS type model being set up by the clubs instead of a say European model with various divisions and P & R.

. 

LOL