Glory Recruit
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+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB Lol spot on personally I think what Falau is doing is disgusting.
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sub007
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+x+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB This so much. Just look at that moron Pauline Hanson predictably supporting Folau, calling for "religious freedoms" whilst advocating for the banning of religious garments. This is why I can't take any of the pro folau crowd seriously. X2 "WHY WON'T YOU GIVE US THE FREEDOM TO TAKE OTHER PEOPLE'S FREEDOM??!!" - Folau and his supporters.
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robstazzz
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+xWas listening to David Marr on RN yesterday and he was saying the ACL should be careful for what it wishes for because if Folau is found to be not in breach of his contract then that will effectively stop any Christian school or organisation sacking any teacher or employee for anything they post up or say on social media. (If it is their genuinely held beliefs.) So yeah, they may win this battle but they may end up losing the war. A Christian school has Christian values so if you're a teacher there, then you shouldn't be teaching against it. I don't think there will be much of an issue there.
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robstazzz
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+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB Those comments have been made already, Anthony Mundine has made a few comments himself, and he's not the only one. Not once did I call for his sacking, and not once did any Christian organisation try and get him sacked. If it doesn't affect me I won't waste a minute of my time caring about what could happen to me based off a religion I don't believe in.
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433
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy.
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sub007
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. Just to add to this, there is still a negative stigma around gay people and some gay people are targets of hate crimes. I know Rob mentioned that the Folau post mentioned adulterers, fornicators, drunks, etc. There isn’t really a negative stigma around these people and they certainly aren’t the targets of hate crimes.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+xGreek Basketballer (The Greek Freak) who is the Greatest Player on the planet and winner of the NBA MVP has thanked God for his Athleticism on 3 occasions when he accepted his award on the NBA's night of nights. The SMH actually erased those parts of his acceptance speech. Our media are pushing an agenda of alternative facts they deem fit for consumption. That is when our society is headed towards dangerous waters which water down freedom of speech, thought, and our very democracy. The Greek Freak is a devout Orthodox Christian. He crosses himself with every basket and prays regularly on the basketball court. https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/06/24/the-greek-freak-has-arrived-giannis-antetokounmpo-wins-nba-mvp/ That's just so typical of mainstream media. Just because you agree with him doesn't mean you should blithely accept anything he says. He says the SMH removed references to God. Is that true, did they? Where's the corroborating evidence or at least a link to the original text? Should be fairly easy to link if true. Maybe they did but then again maybe, like a million times before, he's making shit up again. Have an open mind, just not so open your brain falls out. I never make it up. Here is a video of his very emotional speech. And here is the article published by the SMH which omitted the detail. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/emotional-antetokounmpo-wins-nba-mvp-20190625-p5215x.htmlTears rolled down Antetokounmpo's cheeks as he thanked his mother Veronica and brothers in the audience at Barker Hanger. He credited his late father for pushing him toward his goals and his teammates and coaching staff for their help. Please see from 4 minutes and 35 seconds....
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sydneyfc1987
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Gee, what a scoop Moronflourgue.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. Yes there is a stigma in being a fornicator and a drunk. maybe no stigma in this country but in older more conservative cultures...
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mouflonrouge
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+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB If it was a Muslim rugby player who said it, everyone would have turned a blind eye. Muslims are the sacred cow. One rule for them and another for the Christians, and white middle aged privileged males.
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Muz
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+x+xWas listening to David Marr on RN yesterday and he was saying the ACL should be careful for what it wishes for because if Folau is found to be not in breach of his contract then that will effectively stop any Christian school or organisation sacking any teacher or employee for anything they post up or say on social media. (If it is their genuinely held beliefs.) So yeah, they may win this battle but they may end up losing the war. A Christian school has Christian values so if you're a teacher there, then you shouldn't be teaching against it. I don't think there will be much of an issue there. They shouldn't but if that's the only job going you'll hide the fact your an agnostic or atheist because, firstly, it's none of their business and secondly you need the money to feed yourself and your family. (And frankly it's easy to nod your head yes if they ask you if you believe in god.) This ruling that may come down could make it very difficult for any religious school to dismiss anyone on their genuinely held beliefs. Like I said they may have made a rod for their own back.
Member since 2008.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+xWas listening to David Marr on RN yesterday and he was saying the ACL should be careful for what it wishes for because if Folau is found to be not in breach of his contract then that will effectively stop any Christian school or organisation sacking any teacher or employee for anything they post up or say on social media. (If it is their genuinely held beliefs.) So yeah, they may win this battle but they may end up losing the war. A Christian school has Christian values so if you're a teacher there, then you shouldn't be teaching against it. I don't think there will be much of an issue there. They shouldn't but if that's the only job going you'll hide the fact your an agnostic or atheist because, firstly, it's none of their business and secondly you need the money to feed yourself and your family. (And frankly it's easy to nod your head yes if they ask you if you believe in god.) This ruling that may come down could make it very difficult for any religious school to dismiss anyone on their genuinely held beliefs. Like I said they may have made a rod for their own back. Christians don't have a problem with Atheists providing for their families. There is no hatred towards them or their children and they can be employed by our schools as well based on their qualifications. Bill Hayden was an Atheist too, until upon his death bed so all Atheists are able to see the light and develop a relationship with God. Even in their final day, it would not be too late or in vain. It's easier for a lifelong Atheist to inherit the Kingdom than a lifelong Christian because the Christian is judged a lot more harshly.
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robstazzz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. The reason for suicide has much more to do with each individuals situation. It could be repeated hate crimes, rejected by family, being cheated on, financial troubles ect ect. These issues affect nearly each and everyone of us with hate crimes being the exception. Although many racism hate crimes exists too. As for hate crimes I agree there is a problem here even though I'd say it is rapidly decreasing at least in countries like Australia. But those crimes committed aren't by people like Isreal Falou who know very well that any attack on anyone else regardless of what their sexual preference is, would be a sin, and therefore could lead you to hell. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth.
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robstazzz
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+xGee, what a scoop Moronflourgue. How do you bag someone out for finding evidence to back up his claim? And on top of that you call him a moron.
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers
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robstazzz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers The problem is right there in your post where you haven't exactly told the truth. Firstly Isreal never offended homosexuals by calling them names. He simply mentioned being gay as a sin, yet you've stated that kids in school will run around calling others fags because Isreal did so in the name of Christianity. Now that's made up. Secondly I've never been afraid to come out and say I believe it is a sin. Many people on this forum say I'm homophobic for the exact reason I openly admit that I believe it is a sin myself. Again a made up claim that I hide. That article you sent again shows no evidence that Christianity was the reason why the suicide rate is where it is today. There are hundreds of reasons for suicide not only with gay people but with everyone, yet you put it down to Christians like Isreal or myself why these people are depressed. Even growing up in school many years ago when hate crime was worse than it is today, there would not even be 1 occasion I could say any gay kid got picked on in the name of Christianity. It was always bullying where someone would be called a poof or faggot. Kids didn't run around screaming God hates you or Jesus hates you ect ect. And although you won't admit it deep down you know very well yourself that most hate crime against gays was handed out by people who had no faith themselves. Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics.
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433
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too...
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robstazzz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. No, but I sure do think you're a great example of a shit human being based off your post.
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robstazzz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal.
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... You guys are literally viewing gay people as inferior. If someone used the Bible to argue that people of colour are inferior, we'd all be outraged, this really isn't any different.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. Incredible.
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robstazzz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.4K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... You guys are literally viewing gay people as inferior. If someone used the Bible to argue that people of colour are inferior, we'd all be outraged, this really isn't any different. No you keep putting words into our mouths. Saying something is a sin based on your beliefs doesn't equate to the garbage you're saying. If what you claim is the truth then as a sinner myself does this mean I believe I'm inferior too?
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... You guys are literally viewing gay people as inferior. If someone used the Bible to argue that people of colour are inferior, we'd all be outraged, this really isn't any different. That is completely not true. The Bible is just saying humanity is inferior to God and it isn't singling anyone out here such as Gay people. It's actually a major sin to think Gay people are inferior. This goes against the teachings of our faith. God loves everyone, Gay people too and he loves everyone equally. Doesn't change the fact that their homosexuality isn't a sin like so many other things we do as well.
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paladisious
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... You guys are literally viewing gay people as inferior. If someone used the Bible to argue that people of colour are inferior, we'd all be outraged, this really isn't any different. That is completely not true. The Bible is just saying humanity is inferior to God and it isn't singling anyone out here such as Gay people. It's actually a major sin to think Gay people are inferior. This goes against the teachings of our faith. God loves everyone, Gay people too and he loves everyone equally. Doesn't change the fact that their homosexuality isn't a sin like so many other things we do as well. That "love the sinner, hate the sin" cop-out.
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paulc
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+x+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB If it was a Muslim rugby player who said it, everyone would have turned a blind eye. Muslims are the sacred cow. One rule for them and another for the Christians, and white middle aged privileged males. You're not wrong. That's the lefty PC brigade for ya!
In a resort somewhere
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sub007
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+x+x+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB If it was a Muslim rugby player who said it, everyone would have turned a blind eye. Muslims are the sacred cow. One rule for them and another for the Christians, and white middle aged privileged males. You're not wrong. That's the lefty PC brigade for ya! What planet do you live on?! If that were to happen, they would be absolutely crucified by the media and by many politicians as well.
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sub007
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... You guys are literally viewing gay people as inferior. If someone used the Bible to argue that people of colour are inferior, we'd all be outraged, this really isn't any different. No you keep putting words into our mouths. Saying something is a sin based on your beliefs doesn't equate to the garbage you're saying. If what you claim is the truth then as a sinner myself does this mean I believe I'm inferior too? +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... Yep, it's okay for him to call millions of people shit human beings because he has different views to us. And what's worrying is he thinks it is perfectly normal. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xRob - If Folau was sacked for saying something racist, would you be supporting him and would you donate money to help pay his legal fees? There's two ways of answering that question. 1. If what he said was in fact racist, then I wouldn't donate a cent. 2. If he was sacked for a racist comment which I didn't consider racist, then yes I would donate. Ok so let's say the first situation occurred. Why is racism not ok but homophobia is? Both are forms of discrimination. Because like in the second option I don't put it under homophobia. To me homophobia is when you hate homosexuals and want nothing to do with them. Isreal doesn't fall into this category. Isreal Falou clearly is a Christian, there is no doubting that. On top of that he's one who follows his religion pretty well and loves to preach it to those he loves. Remember he constantly preaches on his own personal accounts, so for anyone who disagrees with him they can simply stop following him. And what he preaches to his people is everything that's in the bible, he doesn't pick and choose. Remember his post mentioned drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, fornicators, idolaters, and athiests will go to hell if they don't change their ways. At the same time the media won't mention the line that was added below this message which was Jesus loves us all. Now even I fall in that group and I could bet my money on it that you could also fall in this group so if I take no offence as a Christian, then how on earth does someone else who believes this religion is nothing but a made up lie take offence? You actually would have to be seriously retarded if you took offence to a post you don't believe in. It's the equivalent of me being offended by Tom Cruise for his Scientology beliefs. I basically laugh off the shit his religion preaches simply because I don't believe it for a second to be true. I'm not going to jump up and down, bitch and moan, and call for him to be sacked because he offended me. So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic. If Isreal Falou basically had only shared that homosexuality is a sin and rubbed off all the other sins, then that would tell me he's simply stirring and picking on homosexuals. If on the other hand he came out and said I don't acknoledge homosexuals and don't talk to them because they are all going to hell ect ect then I wouldn't have bothered to support him, but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes. At the very same time and I'm being 100% honest here, if Rugby Union had a code of conduct stating we don't tolerate Christian views and players aren't allowed to preach, then I wouldn't bother supporting Isreal because as a Christian he shouldn't want to play for a code like that, but that isn't their code of conduct because apparently they don't discriminate against anyone, even though clearly they have discriminated against every single Christian out there by sacking Isreal Falou, and what's even worse is ANZ Bank calling for the sacking of his wife for supporting her husband. This is a total disgrace and I can't believe there would be anyone supporting this disgusting move in this country, especially the same people who preach they believe in freedom of speech/expression/religion. Do you know that Israel doesn't hate gay people? I'm well aware that his post didn't just target gay people. I was targeted as I am an athiest, fornicator and a drunk. I wasn't offended by that as there is no negative stigma around people in those categories. There is a stigma that still exists around gay people and gay people are still targets of hate crimes. A public figure like Folau posts the the stuff he did, it helps fuel hate against gay people whether he realises it or not. "So back to your original point I won't support someone who is racists, or even homophobic." Well that's good then. "but again he mentioned many people, so basically he was preaching in what he believes." So if someone held pro-segregation views and used Bible quotes to defend their position that would be ok? They would be religious and would genuinely believe what they are saying. I don't believe the ARU are against Christians sharing their views and are against freedom of religion. I personally believe that religious freedom shouldn't give religious people the right to discriminate or take away the freedom of others and that seems to be the ARU's position too. I don't think it fuels hate at all. Some agree it is a sin, and some don't agree it is a sin. But regardless of anyone's opinion of any of those sins mentioned, at no point is the message to hate. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the segregation bit, but if it is what I'm thinking, that someone states we should all stick to our own kind based off his/her belief I can't say it would offend me. I wouldn't agree with it, and I wouldn't follow it, but at no point would I call for his or her sacking. The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. You're entitled to have your opinion and obviously entitled to disagree, and even preach what you believe, however you shouldn't lose your job for sharing your opinion and likewise with me or anyone else. Considering you think it is right and fair to sack Isreal Falou I have just one last question to ask you. If Isreal hadn't of made the last post, however got asked by someone in the media if he thought it is a sin to be homosexual and he answered yes, would that be a sackable offence too? In this case he isn't preaching, but instead answering a question. We will have to agree to disagree on the first bit. Segregation occurred in America until the 1960's. Black people weren't allowed to go to the same schools as while people, sit in the same part of the bus and black people had to stand up if a while person didn't have a seat, etc. Read more about it here.Some Christians even used the Bible to defend slavery."The way I see it if all you're preaching is what's right and wrong according to your religion then that's okay. If you're preaching it's okay to kill or injure someone based on your beliefs, then that's where religious freedom has crossed the line. " Like I said before, I believe people can practice their religion however they like, as long as they don't discriminate against other people or take away other people's freedom. Your last question is a good question. I don't think he should be sacked for that as he's just answering a question. Israel Folau has posted anti-guy stuff on multiple occasions and if the ARU don't want to be associated with someone with his views, then they shouldn't have to be. If someone posted racist stuff in the name of religion, I think most people wouldn't be ok with that and would call for his sacking, homophobia is just as bad and should be treated with the same disdain as racism. Telling someone you could end up in hell for your sins is completely different from telling someone you have to change otherwise you'll be beaten up and arrested. Well the reason for our differences in opinion is clear then - you don't believe what he said was wrong. Just put yourself in the shoes of a young rugby player who idolizes Israel Folau but is also gay, what is he to make when his hero tells him that he's going to spend eternity burning in a lake of fire just for being who he is? Do you not see how this is damaging and is a contributing factor towards high rates of depression and suicide in gay people? If you're still unconvinced, then you just have no empathy. I honestly don't think any homosexual kid would want to kill himself because Isreal Falou mentioned a few sins from the bible, regardless of being a fan of his or not. You can't pull out the suicide rate of homosexuals and use a case like Isreal Falou as proof it is people like him who are part of the reason. There's zero evidence of that and it is so far from the truth. There is an absolute treasure mountain of evidence out there for this occurring. No, I don't think someone has killed themselves because of Israels instagram post, but the poisonous mentality he propagates seeps into the schoolyard because it's "acceptable" to tell homosexuals that they're living a sinful life and that they're going to spend eternity being punished for their wicked ways. It might seem innocuous, but now some 12 year old kid might feel emboldened to go and call a gay kid at school a faggot the next time he sees him, because after all, if Izzy can do it in the name of religious freedom, why can't he? That's why it's so important that we hold our sportspeople to a high standard and celebrate those who have the bravery to come forward (like Andy Brennan). I know you're not going to change your mind because you probably think it's sinful too (although you're too afraid come out and admit it) but here's some evidence: Young lesbian, gay and bisexual people start becoming depressed and self-harming from the age of 10 because they feel different from their heterosexual peers, research has found. LGB 16- to 21-year-olds are four times more likely to have felt depressed, harmed themselves and thought about killing themselves, according to a study based on interviews with 4,800 young people from in and around Bristol. Experts said the numbers were linked to the bullying, stigma and abuse that some young people experience as a result of their sexuality. “It’s deeply concerning that such a high proportion of young LGBQ+ people are struggling with their mental health,” said Tom Madders of the the charity YoungMinds. “While the factors behind mental health problems are often complex and multiple, the high figures may relate to bullying, discrimination, feeling like an outsider or worrying about reactions from family or friends.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/study-finds-high-levels-of-depression-among-lgbt-teenagers Anyways Iike I said earlier there is no way we'll agree on this so there's no point to keep debating. We're better off changing topics. Fair enough, if you're apologetically admitting to being a shit human being then there's nothing more to say. Why, because he is a Christian. gee whiz, you people have totally lost the plot and everyone knows it too... You guys are literally viewing gay people as inferior. If someone used the Bible to argue that people of colour are inferior, we'd all be outraged, this really isn't any different. That is completely not true. The Bible is just saying humanity is inferior to God and it isn't singling anyone out here such as Gay people. It's actually a major sin to think Gay people are inferior. This goes against the teachings of our faith. God loves everyone, Gay people too and he loves everyone equally. Doesn't change the fact that their homosexuality isn't a sin like so many other things we do as well. Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t you both against gay marriage? If so then you think that gay people shouldn’t have the same rights as straight people, therefore treating them like second class citizens. If you considered someone as your equal then surely you’d support them having the same rights as you. If what mouflonrouge is saying is true then why are gay people constantly attacked for being who they are by religious zealots? Drunks and fornicators among others aren’t the victims of hate crimes by zealots, only gay people are. Folau’s social media post would fuel these zealots just as how Pauline Hanson’s hateful rhetoric fuels hate towards muslims. This hatred is expressed by slurs and insults generally but occasionally hate crimes as well.
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Muz
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+x+x+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB If it was a Muslim rugby player who said it, everyone would have turned a blind eye. Muslims are the sacred cow. One rule for them and another for the Christians, and white middle aged privileged males. You're not wrong. That's the lefty PC brigade for ya! Funny how the same 'respect' for alternative viewpoints doesn't extend as far as Scott McIntyre or Yasmin Abdwl Magied.
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paulc
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+x+x+x+xBe interesting to see the litmus test if this was a Muslim making comments about infidels etc. -PB If it was a Muslim rugby player who said it, everyone would have turned a blind eye. Muslims are the sacred cow. One rule for them and another for the Christians, and white middle aged privileged males. You're not wrong. That's the lefty PC brigade for ya! What planet do you live on?! If that were to happen, they would be absolutely crucified by the media and by many politicians as well. Crucified by what media, the leftist ABC, Channel 9 / Fairfax etc............lol And as for the Greens / Labor politicians you must be joking, right?
In a resort somewhere
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