With so much negative comment from forums and pro football media I doubt if professional football can survive. Mainstream media has never been interested except for negative stories. I, for one, would have thought given the current circumstances that more support would be forthcoming to FFA and, particularly , the new CEO from those with an interest in the game. Alas not!

In theory this shouldn’t be an issue, all sports have to deal with similar situations and internet trolls. 

The AL isnt really a professional league... 
-Salary cap/Floor
- lack of football stadiums 
- lack of promotion and relegation
- played in the Summer 
- doesnt stop for international breaks 
......

The media doesnt help but lets be clear the football in Australia doesnt help itself by being rubbish and poorly run in Australia - you can blame he FFA for a f**k wit model in the franchisee system 

TBH we dont have the ability to have a professional league, we would be better off with a semi-pro league with 3 divisions of 12 teams then what we currently have - the Australian domestic competition is a development competition we tried to make a strong league and it has almost killed football. 

Forget the idea of a top league in Australia and turn into a selling league and let clubs from Europe and Asia fund the sport 

Make the Socceroos Strong and competitive in the World cup and the Media will support us - as long as the Socceroos are rubbish with GA in charge we will continue to go no where 

I'm all for changing all of those things you mentioned (and some of them are already happening), but none of those factors are relevant to whether the A-League is a professional league or not. It obviously is because it pays players to be full-time footballers. End of. Going back to a semi-professional free-for-all like the NSL would be a disaster.

The NSL was decent at developing players until they hit their late teens/early twenties. Then they either had to go to Europe or they would stagnate, since they would have to work full-time jobs and could only train three times a week, like the NPL now. The A-League should aspire to (and has been reasonably successful at) being more than just a feeder league for European clubs. This doesn't mean it can't do better at player development and at getting transfer fees in for players departing overseas, but you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Exactly, if we are all trying to push the game to a higher level why is there so much negativaty. It only allows those with a negative view of our game to  make football  seem less important.

My point is should we just let it die at a professional level and go back to a NSL type competition.  Then we become so irrelevant to the sporting landscape that any gains that have have been made in the last 15 years are lost. 

Our attendances and ratings today (first half of season pre-COVID) are the same as they were in Season one 15 years ago.
We started off as a smallish pro comp, and we remain a smallish pro comp, and that looks unlikely to change over the next 15 years.
Over this period, I think we managed to move ahead of basketball and rugby, but that's not saying a hell of a lot.
There were intermittent moments where media interest appeared relatively high, but in the main, it has remained where it always has been.
Sponsorship revenue reflects all of that.
We'll get a bit of an uplift in the run in to the WWC, but if we're all honest with each other, I think we already know it will be short lived.
That's the nature of the beast.
So that leaves us with two options:
1.  keep enjoying your football as always
2.  keep moaning about everyone trying to keep sokkah down in this country.

The AL should be a feeder league but it isnt, the NSL understood this and that is how it worked it found talent nurtured it sold it with a sell on clause rinse and repeat. 

The AL has attempted to be a 'top league' in Asia but with no structure and a clear financial disadvantage - via both Salary cap and th fact leagues countries like China have way more money then us.

You are getting confused between what we expect of the AL and what the useless FFA want the AL to be....

The FFA over-estimated how football would grow in Asia thinking that money would shift the tide to make Asian nations better but essentially this has not occurred if anything it has gone backwards with the best talent being drained into Europe. - but as a result countries like Korea and Japan football has grown and there national teams are competitive at a global level (this is was the NSL use to do) 

The reason why the FFA is so incompetent they dont realise football leagues dont attract fans it is football clubs - ie No one gives a shit when West Brom plays Fulham but everyone wants watch Manchester United vs Liverpool even if you dont support either club.
Everyone wants to see the big clubs play in the UCL. We have no 'big teams' in Australia due to the cap.

LA Galaxy has made a bit of a 'brand' for itself but the same issues the AL has with a limited salary cap stopped them from becoming a global brand. This has hurt the MLS greatly but the US has the population to have a load of teams in a competitive (ish) league. 

However, the AL will continue to struggle (and imo should be scrapped and start again)- it isnt a professional league imo how can a professional league go for 6months have no promotion and relegation etc players might be paid a pro (ish) wage but the structure of the league isnt professional im sorry but we need to start facing up to hard facts and stop being sensitive to the fact the league is 15 y.o and a joke 

Some very good points in thread. Seems the quickest & easiest way to improve AL is to scrap the salary cap. Go All In for foreign investment. Has worked for EPL, La Liga, etc etc. With the FFA and AL in such a bad place right now (mostly due to covid19) why the hell not scrap it? Nothing to lose really

The FFA followed the Australian model - Big Bash was set up for people “to follow the competition” not a club, similar with AFL and to some extent NRL. 

They knew what they were doing - they we’re just wrong 

Excellent thread and hopefully lots of comments..

This has been my call for decades, 

I am totally lost on the word...

PROPER

Somehow the arguments by Football folk or some is PROPER.

We don't have a proper competition.

By proper it means based on a European model...

So unless it mirror's Europe its not proper and not acceptable. Therefore I will crap on it every change I get.

WE can be like Europe, and using excuses like the Australian sporting environment is an excuse for lazy, inept and incompetent management is the argument.

In truth the expectations and IMO insane assumptions of the size of the Football market and the assumptions of if we only did this all would be solved, are the key reasons we can't cerebrate our achievements.

In the short to medium term what many people want is simply impossible, however thats not how they see it.

Its a real problem  

 

What our beLoved  game NEEDS is a 2nd divisoin &NOW but FFA seem completely  unintrested and in doing NOTHING!! Just doit FFA  pleasse, its NOT HARD ! !

This is essentially the problem the AL has faced since season 1 European football fans (which all 99% football fans are on some level) cant take the league seriously. I like the AL but i have always called out the structure of the competition (lack of P/R and Sal Cap) for being worst then the NSL. 

The quality of football is unfairly criticized (at least since around season 6) if you ask me the league is better then it gets credit for...but due to its structure It is not a professional competition

It was interesting to hear Marcos Flores comment in Simon Hill's podcast on the standard of football in the A-League both when he was Johnny Warren Medalist in 2010 and when he played here later.  The football in 2010 was "rush, rush", "tackle, tackle", "everyone play counter-attacking football" and now thanks to the revolution in play brought about by Brisbane Roar "it is as tactical and technical as any league he played in".  (my paraphrase)

The A-League is not a joke, it is a serious competition with a few flaws in its design, involving players of talent appropriate to the money that is paid.  If we want to see it improve then the flaws need to be removed but not only that we need to see the game at all levels changed down as far as community football so that we get significant increase in participation, especially in the so called AFL states and Qld, and a commensurate higher standard in every level of the pyramid from the lowest semi professional State Leagues right through to the two professional national leagues.

As to you majoring on the  NSL seeing themselves as a feeder league that is not wholly the case.  Although clubs benefitted from players moving overseas they believed that it was a problem that the NSL could not keep the talent in Australia and that was the reason there was a push to move to professional football but they could never get there.  When the NSL was finally folded, after 5 years of attempting to remodel it by the ASA, the NSL Taskforce was asked by the new board to make recommendations, amongst many other things, on ways to get Australian footballers based overseas to return to Australia and to keep talented players here.  This was a continuation of the views held by the NSL clubs and the ASA.

Lets agree with you the structure needs to change, for me I want two divisions of 16 teams with P & R.

Given we don't have 16 teams, two divisions with P & R, do I stop supporting Football and constantly put crap on Australian Football, until we have 16 teams, two divisions with P & R.

Or do I work towards creating two divisions with P & R.

If the answer is work towards creating, do I care how I get to this goal or is there also some PROPER way this needs to be achieved.

There is nothing inherently wrong with negativity. The problem is that the broad (usually biased) negative statements can blend in with the genuine negative criticisms. Making a negative criticism by pointing out a flaw or fault, especially when it's backed up with evidence and data, is hugely beneficial. This is where the A-League has been let down. The FFA have a history of stifling any sort of analysis of the state of the A-League as they are scared (or know) it will paint a very negative picture. Progress is impossible without negative criticisms shedding light on genuine areas for improvement.

100% agree i remember Pim trying to give some hard turths about the AL and the FFA (and to be fair AL fans) jumped on him 

Pim had a job to do, and part of that job was representing our national team to the media.  What he did in this incident was give NRL and AFL and their media lackeys a field day at the A League's expense, thereby damaging the code yet again. It was a moronic, inaccurate statement informed by old world prejudices from a coach who lost the national team dressing room and produced the most humiliating display in our national team's history against Germany in South Africa.

It was thoroughly unprofessional and irresponsible of him to make that statement, regardelss of what I thought of his ability as a coach, which wasn't much.

The game in Australia is way too fractured, people have grudges from the past and present times.

The grassroots still dont feel connected enough to the aleague and even NPL clubs.

Decisions done based on the short term interest instead of what's best for the long term interest for the sport.

Too much ego and self centred minds involved at all levels that probably dont give a stuff about the game if im really honest.

Not a view towards the young kids playing the sport in how to make their experience better in the game, all about short term prizes and sugar hits that people will forget in a heart beat.

Sport in general especially our sport is about emotional connection and not being forced fed to support a concept or a team, if you dont have that feeling its not there at all regardless what is served in front of you.

For me im getting more convinced the start of the new era of the aleague was going to be an exciting time for the sport but instead its just another false dawn with bad decisions made time to time that dont help the overall health of the sport, alas with different badges and maybe more money spent which have been wasted down the drain.

Instead of building the aleague as a vehicle to help the overall development of the sport in terms of more teams, more players/coaches, more fans in the game and overall more emotional connection down to the grassroots, its turned into an monopoly where its been about metrics and protecting patches that dont have a long term view for the sport.
And it doesn't help that the FFA with the Lowys did after once the 2010 World Cup bid turned to turd they made the aleague into a little money maker without giving away power or pride in this case to the owners that put the money into the clubs in the first place.
Did they really care about growing the sport after they missed out for 2010?

In my opinion I think the FFA who are responsible for developing the game in Australia in the last 15 years had failed in their task in improving the game and instead have created a bigger divide, lets hope for a better era with the 'football centric' FFA board that includes JJ and the aleague owners now they will get their independence and can put the steering wheel in the right direction for once.

Good luck...

You see, you already have that positivity in hoping for a ‘better era’ under the guidance of the new FFA board and it’s new CEO. We all know about the failings of the previous administration so there is no point rehashing all of that. The best thing we can do  for our sport is to keep supporting those who have to make the decisions on our behalf and STAY POSITIVE !!

The only way is up I guess.

The expression “The Truth? You can’t handle the truth” springs to mind. 

This right here is the typical 'Australian rage but forgets the context' - Pim was being pressured and questioned constantly on why the national team had almost no AL players in it. 

I think the only AL player he ever seriously was Alex Brosque - The FFA want more AL representation (which they got with Holger perhaps due to lack of better option perhaps due to FFA pressure we will never know). But what do you want him to do? select AL players that werent good enough to pander to pressure. 

No he stood his ground and he is the only coach to win a game at the world cup (bar Guus) - he was right - I agree it have the AFL NRL media something to talk about but instead of embracing the criticism the FFA bosses continued to put there head in the sound and look were that has led us....  

The game will never improve 'significantly' until we stop trying to make it an 'Australian' version of itself - stick to the European model no sal cap, no final series, non of this gimmicky crap - traditional team locations and everyone needs to have a home ground.

The MLS has more money and teams and has been around for ages but is still relatively shit due to them making the competition 'Americanised' - considering the population and  $$$ of the USA (and even Canada) they should be power houses in world football but they are still terrible becuz they refuse to use a system that has been refined over a century old 

I got no faith in the FFA old or current becuz it doesnt have the balls to do what it needs to do for the good of the game - it is too of rich people, the government, police, AFL, NRL etc - Though I dont blame the club owners they dont care about football generally speaking they are in it for the brand exposer and money. 

Football in Australia is dead until makes a competition with a structure the same/similar as the Europeans it will continue to be a joke and continue to go nowhere. 

I can’t see APFCA wanting to scrap final. It is a revenue generating exercise.

Hopefully FFA in the near future choose to use FFA Cup as the qualifying tournament for AFC comps. As the finals are today.

It would make the Finals series redundant. I can’t see nor think AFC should give us special treatment to use Finals and FFA Cup as qualifying events. Other top countries would need imo to bring in the same system.

A solution is to have FFA Cup r32 onward directly after regular season concludes.

Finals do give experience to conditions that are similar to tournaments but you could achieve this via FFA Cup also. As long as the incentive is there.

But again FFA will be running the Cup and APFCA the finals.

I think regardless we can have Finals and relegation but the possibility could occur that a GF winning Champion doesn’t gain AFC entry if the Finals aren’t the dedicated qualifying Asian cup.

Finals generates 'short term' revenue but diminishes the value of the entire league - see what i mean 'Australianise' football just makes it shit 

You get 50k for one game but the rest of the season you are struggling to get over 8k  - WTF is the point of that? 

You would rather get 10k average from fans of the sport then a sugar hit during a 'grand final spectacle' which if the match is rubbish like many of them have Been ie PER V SYD just hurts the league becuz people that normally wouldnt watch see the 1 game live and think the league is crap 


Even in other codes large numbers of people only pay attention if there team in is finals. 

It is a dumb concept - you have a cup competition, the league and the ACL thats it  

I struggle to see APFCA abandoning it.
This is FFAs legacy on the league.

In a normal model you have teams playing matches fighting for survival. But I think FFA using FFA Cup as Asian qualifying cup is closer than pro rel between divisions.

The current state of teams playing each other odd times shouldn’t determine the champion. Nor back when it was 3 times for all with unequal home and away matches.

There are several issues to resolve.

This is essentially the problem the AL has faced since season 1 European football fans (which all 99% football fans are on some level) cant take the league seriously

HHHHMMMMMmmm 99% ... wild assumptions stated as fact and no doubt you think its true ... but its actually an insane comment and one that hurts ...

I like the AL but i have always called out the structure of the competition (lack of P/R and Sal Cap) for being worst then the NSL. 

Really the NLS was a better franchise system than the A-L ...if hand on heart not the other thing you believe that's true then Football has no future in Australia if even a small % agree with you.

Lack of PR & Salary cap....just scream it out loud you want a European system ... its easy to do ...

I want Football in Australia to have systems like Europe as they are PROPER systems ... 

I want as I have stated many times 32 teams, two divisions with P & R, but to do that we need to build and work with what we have..

But my guess is anything other than a European guaranteed system and signed off by everyone will be unacceptable...

It is easy to do get rid of the cap and floor a-line the state leagues with the AL make 2 divisions the top division is across the whole country the 2nd division is a conference style league in which the 2 best teams play off and the best team gets promoted to the AL 

1st division is the way the AL is but we stop supporting the Nix tell the sheep shagers all Nix costs are now to the burdern of the NZ FA and the club itself if the nix cant afford to be in the AL who really cares if NZ wants a team in the 2nd division they are welcome to have one as well but again all costs on the NZ FA 

without the cap and floor let clubs pay what they want with min wage laws applied of course - clubs are allowed to negotiate there sponsors etc - TV money is divided to cover all non players expenses and enough to field a 'cheap' side anything extra the clubs will need to raise themselves 

all clubs need to aim to get there own ground and training facilities within the next 10-15 years 

Prize money for winning the league 1m and FFA 500k (and they get and ACL spot) 

league moves to winter starts a bit after the AFL and NRL season goes for 8-9 months no finals series shit and put in a minimal transfer clause that no player can be sold for less then 1m to stop talent drain from shit leagues like India 

get rid of the stupid NYL and have an academy system in which is a state local based competition for U6s all the way up to U21s- after that they become the reserves - all clubs must have this as a prerequisite to be part of the league - (this actually can be used as a revenue source) 

invite scouts from all the top divisions to the league in an attempt to get big money transfers from Australia to big leagues in Europe ie 1m would go a long way but imagine we could sell a player for 5-10m pounds


bang you fixed football  - this is what the 'dutch' do it is the model we were suppose to be copying but instead we got this f**ken toilet league with a clueless FFA and shit rules 

I agree with most of the practical suggestions here, except getting rid of the finals system. I wouldn't mind seeing it go personally, but it's a guaranteed generator of money and interest, and I don't think it devalues the rest of the season, especially since in all but one A-League season, the GF has been won by a top two side anyway.

You have to give something for clubs to play for between top spot and he relegation places. In Europe this is CL/EL spots. We have the ACL but it's not quite the same drawcard. And play-offs aren't totally foreign to European football: England has them for the final promotion spot, while other leagues have them for European spots.

Also, moving to a winter should mean finals in November, once the AFL/NRL seasons have finished, and it's actually a good window to get the media engaged.

The A-League is pretty good in the top half of the table. It's the bottom half where the problems are: the clubs are stagnating and interest is waning, and they have a drag-effect on the league as a whole. The idea of a league full of roughly equal sides based on the AFL/NRL model clearly isn't working (and probably doesn't work so well for football), but a second division and pro-rel can go a long way to fixing this: the threat of relegation will give the bottom teams something to play for, and if a club does go down its fans can actually be treated to some winning football and a rebuilding process in the lower tier.

On the other side of the ledger, the top NPL clubs have hit a ceiling because there is nowhere higher for them to go. So having an integrated system from NPL to NSD to A-League can go a long way to rectifying the problems with the game in this country.