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aussie scott21
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bluebird
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I'm going to make another point to my reply above If you turn to SBS2 HD right now you'll see the W League There is little in the way of attendance as a reflection of not as much interest in the women's game. The players are largely semi professional. And with less squad depth there are more errors than a national game But what you see is a viable national league where players can perform on a central platform. The result is the Matildas are getting stronger as a result. The larger the game comes, the more money filters down to the W League and the baseline improves Nothing more is required for a second tier than this. Obviously spending above minimal is discretionary and the "to be" A League clubs at the top will be of a higher grade, but nothing higher than what you can see on TV right now should be mandatory
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aussie scott21
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+x+x+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things. In 3 years time the 22 year olds will be ineligible to play in the league Perhaps but the rules are hardly set in stone. FFA may nd up changing them if they were to sanction the league.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things. In 3 years time the 22 year olds will be ineligible to play in the league
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+x+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm. I don't agree with the youth quotas. We have a youth league. Although it doesn't have to be national, every club should have a youth development strategy A second division will largely be semi pro or low cost so there is an inevitability that the majority of players in it are youth, particularly with the bottom table clubs. So why force it? The A League and second division are two tiers of the same league. The only restrictions should be a 3+1 rule. Natural selection will take care of the rest. Which teams are at the top, which teams are at the bottom, where youth fits in I don't understand why everything has to be restrictions, quotas, balance, rules, requirements...The framework has already been developed and time tested. All we need is teams for a top tier, teams for a second tier, and a way to finance it. Its much easier than we are making it out to be I don't agree that the second tier needs to be semi-pro. We have that already. What we want to do is create an environment where fringe players in the A-league who are not getting game time will be enticed to play in this league and be on a national stage week in week out. They need to be playing good competition which will raise the standards of these players and enable them to be better players when they go back to the A-league. Sitting on the bench and not playing doesn't do anyone any good. You can't expect that to happen in a semi-pro league. Sure lets keep administration costs down, hiring of stadiums down, admin staff down etc, but we should be trying to make this a viable professional league so make sure the players get paid as much as possible so that this is a full time job. That is the only way forward. It needs to be good enough that you would want to watch on FTA like on SBS or even provide more content for Fox down the road. There should be minimum standards that must be met but surely we should not be capping this league with a salary cap of any sort, that also includes no quotas for young players. If you don't make this a good product no one will watch it and it will turn to shit. The minimum salary for a player is about 50k (+/- 10k based on age). For a 23 player squad that is $1.15m. Not many people will be a full time player on $50k a year The other thing is the "who pays for it" question A second tier is viable tomorrow by simply replacing the youth league with a second tier. If you factor in over $1m for player salaries then it is not possible tomorrow I don't see why it needs to be "watchable" on SBS in its first year or even second year. This is about placing the second best players onto a national stage as part of a player development platform. There is no need to create a marketable competition. This desire is what has effectively killed the A League The teams at the top will have bigger salaries as they push to be part of the top tier, where as those at the bottom will be part timers. I don't see how anything else is required All that is required for now is a base to build from. The bigger the A League becomes as a result of the top teams progressing to the next level, the more money that filters down, the bigger the second tier becomes The starting point for this seems to be twice the cost and 150% of the teams of the A League when it first launched from nothing, with additional club requirements. It wont even get off the ground
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Kamaryn
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.6K,
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+x+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things. Yeah, I imagined a similar intention. Like with a lot of ideas, the motivation is right but the execution is wrong. Maybe a few squad positions for youth at most, but I remain convinced that the the best thing for youth development is having the strongest second division possible. That way, any young players who are good enough to make it into squads are playing against/training with the highest standard possible, and not a heap of weaker players who are there due to quotas.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things.
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Kamaryn
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.6K,
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I'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two.
A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea.
Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
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+x+x+xGo here for the details - http://www.thechampionship.com.au/Some of the more interesting things for me: Our proposal is to introduce a national second tier men’s and women’s competition from 2019 to be known as ‘The Championship’ The Championship will be established as a separate legal entity from FFA, the member federations and the AAFC. The budget for the administration of The Championship, including payments to state federations for referees and judiciary services, will be sourced from sponsorship and license fees without any requirement for funding from FFA, the A-League, state federations or NPL clubs. The Championship is a 12-16 club competition for both men and women to be aligned with the A-League season, commencing in October 2019. Expansion to 20 teams is envisaged over five seasons by 2024. Clubs may also continue to participate in the winter state-based NPL competitions. - boutique stadium with minimum capacity of 3,000
- most stadiums would hold 3000. It doesnt say 3000 seats
- capacity to field a men’s and women’s team
- To me this doesnt make sense. Even the AL & WL dont mirror each other.
- head coaches of both the men’s and women’s teams to hold at least an A-License
- fine
- Board, management and staff structure in place with adequate resources
- fine
- 5-year strategic plan and annual business plan
- fine
- capacity to meet an annual budget of $2.5 million, including an annual license fee of $150,000
- fine
- established relationship with NPL feeder clubs.
- questionable, same time AL clubs do it
- salary cap of $1 million initially across the two squads (men and women)
- initially, ok i can buy that
- maximum squad size of 20 players for men and women
- Could be more
- at least 50% of the squad must be 25 years or younger
- Not sure this is needed
- maximum of 2 visa players, drawn only from the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation with an exception for players who have residency status as a refugee
- Do not like. Asia I can buy but why help Oceania? Why restrict clubs from scouting eg African players to later sell to Asian clubs. This means if you are from UK you are not welcome etc Why let a NZ player play but not a Brit?
- maximum of 3 players who have played A-League or W-League in the previous two seasons
- Dont understand this
- incentives to promote the inclusion of youth players contracted to A-League clubs.
- Why? Teams should be trying to win
AAFC has commenced discussions with broadcasters and is well-advanced in finalising a new and unique broadcasting model. AAFC has also commenced discussions with potential sponsors. The aim of sponsorship of The Championship is to cover the cost of travel and accommodation for the competitions, as well as contribute to additional marketing expenditure. Our intention is to discuss promotion/relegation further with the A-League clubs and FFA with a view to implementation of full promotion and relegation by 2024. In terms of the state-based NPL competition, we intend discussing the integration of promotion and relegation from the NPL to The Championship, and subject to meeting the criteria, with the state-based member federations also with a view to implementation by 2024. End of the day, I am happier that we are making progress than the things I personally see as issues. Doesnt mention stadium criteria, only 3000 (which may be standing). Dont likethe visa rule at all. Either Asia only or open imo. Don't use red highlighting in the future .... near on impossible to read! But agree with most your comments ok
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sokorny
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.2K,
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+x+xGo here for the details - http://www.thechampionship.com.au/Some of the more interesting things for me: Our proposal is to introduce a national second tier men’s and women’s competition from 2019 to be known as ‘The Championship’ The Championship will be established as a separate legal entity from FFA, the member federations and the AAFC. The budget for the administration of The Championship, including payments to state federations for referees and judiciary services, will be sourced from sponsorship and license fees without any requirement for funding from FFA, the A-League, state federations or NPL clubs. The Championship is a 12-16 club competition for both men and women to be aligned with the A-League season, commencing in October 2019. Expansion to 20 teams is envisaged over five seasons by 2024. Clubs may also continue to participate in the winter state-based NPL competitions. - boutique stadium with minimum capacity of 3,000
- most stadiums would hold 3000. It doesnt say 3000 seats
- capacity to field a men’s and women’s team
- To me this doesnt make sense. Even the AL & WL dont mirror each other.
- head coaches of both the men’s and women’s teams to hold at least an A-License
- fine
- Board, management and staff structure in place with adequate resources
- fine
- 5-year strategic plan and annual business plan
- fine
- capacity to meet an annual budget of $2.5 million, including an annual license fee of $150,000
- fine
- established relationship with NPL feeder clubs.
- questionable, same time AL clubs do it
- salary cap of $1 million initially across the two squads (men and women)
- initially, ok i can buy that
- maximum squad size of 20 players for men and women
- Could be more
- at least 50% of the squad must be 25 years or younger
- Not sure this is needed
- maximum of 2 visa players, drawn only from the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation with an exception for players who have residency status as a refugee
- Do not like. Asia I can buy but why help Oceania? Why restrict clubs from scouting eg African players to later sell to Asian clubs. This means if you are from UK you are not welcome etc Why let a NZ player play but not a Brit?
- maximum of 3 players who have played A-League or W-League in the previous two seasons
- Dont understand this
- incentives to promote the inclusion of youth players contracted to A-League clubs.
- Why? Teams should be trying to win
AAFC has commenced discussions with broadcasters and is well-advanced in finalising a new and unique broadcasting model. AAFC has also commenced discussions with potential sponsors. The aim of sponsorship of The Championship is to cover the cost of travel and accommodation for the competitions, as well as contribute to additional marketing expenditure. Our intention is to discuss promotion/relegation further with the A-League clubs and FFA with a view to implementation of full promotion and relegation by 2024. In terms of the state-based NPL competition, we intend discussing the integration of promotion and relegation from the NPL to The Championship, and subject to meeting the criteria, with the state-based member federations also with a view to implementation by 2024. End of the day, I am happier that we are making progress than the things I personally see as issues. Doesnt mention stadium criteria, only 3000 (which may be standing). Dont likethe visa rule at all. Either Asia only or open imo. Don't use red highlighting in the future .... near on impossible to read! But agree with most your comments
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm. I don't agree with the youth quotas. We have a youth league. Although it doesn't have to be national, every club should have a youth development strategy A second division will largely be semi pro or low cost so there is an inevitability that the majority of players in it are youth, particularly with the bottom table clubs. So why force it? The A League and second division are two tiers of the same league. The only restrictions should be a 3+1 rule. Natural selection will take care of the rest. Which teams are at the top, which teams are at the bottom, where youth fits in I don't understand why everything has to be restrictions, quotas, balance, rules, requirements...The framework has already been developed and time tested. All we need is teams for a top tier, teams for a second tier, and a way to finance it. Its much easier than we are making it out to be I don't agree that the second tier needs to be semi-pro. We have that already. What we want to do is create an environment where fringe players in the A-league who are not getting game time will be enticed to play in this league and be on a national stage week in week out. They need to be playing good competition which will raise the standards of these players and enable them to be better players when they go back to the A-league. Sitting on the bench and not playing doesn't do anyone any good. You can't expect that to happen in a semi-pro league. Sure lets keep administration costs down, hiring of stadiums down, admin staff down etc, but we should be trying to make this a viable professional league so make sure the players get paid as much as possible so that this is a full time job. That is the only way forward. It needs to be good enough that you would want to watch on FTA like on SBS or even provide more content for Fox down the road. There should be minimum standards that must be met but surely we should not be capping this league with a salary cap of any sort, that also includes no quotas for young players. If you don't make this a good product no one will watch it and it will turn to shit.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+xGo here for the details - http://www.thechampionship.com.au/Some of the more interesting things for me: Our proposal is to introduce a national second tier men’s and women’s competition from 2019 to be known as ‘The Championship’ The Championship will be established as a separate legal entity from FFA, the member federations and the AAFC. The budget for the administration of The Championship, including payments to state federations for referees and judiciary services, will be sourced from sponsorship and license fees without any requirement for funding from FFA, the A-League, state federations or NPL clubs. The Championship is a 12-16 club competition for both men and women to be aligned with the A-League season, commencing in October 2019. Expansion to 20 teams is envisaged over five seasons by 2024. Clubs may also continue to participate in the winter state-based NPL competitions. We will apply to the Asian Football Confederation for the winner of The Championship to be granted a place in the Asian Champions League. - boutique stadium with minimum capacity of 3,000
- most stadiums would hold 3000. It doesnt say 3000 seats
- capacity to field a men’s and women’s team
- To me this doesnt make sense. Even the AL & WL dont mirror each other.
- head coaches of both the men’s and women’s teams to hold at least an A-License
- fine
- Board, management and staff structure in place with adequate resources
- fine
- 5-year strategic plan and annual business plan
- fine
- capacity to meet an annual budget of $2.5 million, including an annual license fee of $150,000
- fine
- established relationship with NPL feeder clubs.
- questionable, same time AL clubs do it
- salary cap of $1 million initially across the two squads (men and women)
- initially, ok i can buy that
- maximum squad size of 20 players for men and women
- Could be more
- at least 50% of the squad must be 25 years or younger
- Not sure this is needed
- maximum of 2 visa players, drawn only from the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation with an exception for players who have residency status as a refugee
- Do not like. Asia I can buy but why help Oceania? Why restrict clubs from scouting eg African players to later sell to Asian clubs. This means if you are from UK you are not welcome etc Why let a NZ player play but not a Brit?
- maximum of 3 players who have played A-League or W-League in the previous two seasons
- Dont understand this
- incentives to promote the inclusion of youth players contracted to A-League clubs.
- Why? Teams should be trying to win
AAFC has commenced discussions with broadcasters and is well-advanced in finalising a new and unique broadcasting model. AAFC has also commenced discussions with potential sponsors. The aim of sponsorship of The Championship is to cover the cost of travel and accommodation for the competitions, as well as contribute to additional marketing expenditure. Our intention is to discuss promotion/relegation further with the A-League clubs and FFA with a view to implementation of full promotion and relegation by 2024. In terms of the state-based NPL competition, we intend discussing the integration of promotion and relegation from the NPL to The Championship, and subject to meeting the criteria, with the state-based member federations also with a view to implementation by 2024. End of the day, I am happier that we are making progress than the things I personally see as issues. Doesnt mention stadium criteria, only 3000 (which may be standing). Dont likethe visa rule at all. Either Asia only or open imo.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm. I don't agree with the youth quotas. We have a youth league. Although it doesn't have to be national, every club should have a youth development strategy A second division will largely be semi pro or low cost so there is an inevitability that the majority of players in it are youth, particularly with the bottom table clubs. So why force it? The A League and second division are two tiers of the same league. The only restrictions should be a 3+1 rule. Natural selection will take care of the rest. Which teams are at the top, which teams are at the bottom, where youth fits in I don't understand why everything has to be restrictions, quotas, balance, rules, requirements...The framework has already been developed and time tested. All we need is teams for a top tier, teams for a second tier, and a way to finance it. Its much easier than we are making it out to be
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sokorny
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.2K,
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+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm.
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Gyfox
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+x+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue? Playing in a national league should have greater requirements than a state league. Its a given. Semi-professional clubs that can't afford it stay in the state competition. Thats not a problem. What isn't a given is for a second division to have limitations on player ages etc. That belongs in a lower level development competition in my view. Hence my comment that much of the document is written for a third tier national competition. On your point on a women's team I see the need for more women's teams to grow the game and improve development. Whether that is required at a semi-pro level or should apply only at the professional level is the point for discussion. In my view it should be a requirement of professional clubs. I see what is proposed as the first step in a few to grow the depth of the game. Establishing another league at national level is a great idea. Having that lead to establishing a second professional tier in 5+ years time while expanding the A-League to 16 clubs in the meantime would be a positive development. As well as expanding at the elite national levels I would like to see each state move along the path towards having 3 NPL tiers of 16 clubs and state league competitions of 16 clubs below that. Because of the number of players each state will be at a different point but the aim should be to deepen the structure everywhere over time.
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City Sam
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+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented?
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bluebird
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I'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot
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paladisious
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I agree that some of the squad restrictions seem unnecessary, in fact most A-League clubs would comply with that 25 year old rule anyway, Victory has 12 of 22 players aged 25 or under, CCM has 15 out of 23.
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City Sam
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+x+x+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue? I agree that the barriers to entry should be high, but I don't agree on player quota's especially only 2 visa players and half the squad being u23 players. They might as well implement a 3+1 rule while we are here, for those clubs who are ambitious enough to afford it. Even with a 3-4 visa rule you will still have more than enough young players looking to play in this league and being noticed without lowering playing standards. The biggest difference between the A-league and the NPL now is the gulf in class that exists in the foreign contingent of players. What I am hoping for more than anything to come out of this is new players in the football market who want to invest and build a platform for a long term A-league club but starting from "The Championship". I would hope that any previous bidders who had aspirations for the A-league and have been frustrated by the process might consider this is as a viable alternative, this includes teams like "The Southern Expansion" bid. It would preferable that this 2nd tier be built up in this way and the A-league along with it through pro/rel. That is the best way to capture the synergies of pro/rel and create interest in both leagues. We need both leagues to be strong for that very reason. 2nd divisions and lower should mainly be local players, we need to actually develop some players to improve the quality of football in this country
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RBBAnonymous
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+x+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue? I agree that the barriers to entry should be high, but I don't agree on player quota's especially only 2 visa players and half the squad being u23 players. They might as well implement a 3+1 rule while we are here, for those clubs who are ambitious enough to afford it. Even with a 3-4 visa rule you will still have more than enough young players looking to play in this league and being noticed without lowering playing standards. The biggest difference between the A-league and the NPL now is the gulf in class that exists in the foreign contingent of players. What I am hoping for more than anything to come out of this is new players in the football market who want to invest and build a platform for a long term A-league club but starting from "The Championship". I would hope that any previous bidders who had aspirations for the A-league and have been frustrated by the process might consider this is as a viable alternative, this includes teams like "The Southern Expansion" bid. It would preferable that this 2nd tier be built up in this way and the A-league along with it through pro/rel. That is the best way to capture the synergies of pro/rel and create interest in both leagues. We need both leagues to be strong for that very reason.
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The Fans
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+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue?
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hotrod
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TIMELINE FOR IMPLEMENTATION| November to February | Stakeholder Consultation | | 1 December 2017 | AAFC calls for expression of interest from clubs interest in participation in The Championship | | 2 February 2018 | Expressions of interest close | | 2 March 2018 | FFA endorsement required | | 29 March 2018 | The Championship Bid document made available on payment of $10,000 fee | | 25 May 2018 | Bids close | | May to July 2018 | Bids assessed by Nous Group | | August 2018 | Nous Group report to AAFC Board | | September 2018 | Successful bidders notified | | October 2018 | Licenses issued | | October 2019 | Start of The Championship |
[/quote] There's the BIG stumbling bock.
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Gyfox
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+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition.
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RBBAnonymous
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I am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to.
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aufc_ole
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Hmmmm at least there's a start on the conversation but there are a few things I'm not a fan of
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sokorny
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+xSo now that we have a better idea of the second division, which clubs does everyone think are likely to participate given what we know? So far: > South Melbourne > Wollongong Wolves > Brisbane Strikers > APIA Leichhardt > Heidelberg United > Gold Coast City > Adelaide City Who else? Would Gold Coast have a boutique stadium?? Is Robina Stadium boutique?? Almost the same capacity as AAMI Park (and we see how empty that looks with City fans).
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The Fans
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+xThe goal (by the AAFC) is that in five years time the second division would have promotion / relegation to the A-League. Would all the rules about player's eligibility be removed by then too?? Otherwise relegated teams would struggle to field a team, and promoted teams would have to invest heavily in players to make the step up. I want to know if the a-league will adopt similar restrictions. Max of 3 players that have ever played 2nd division.
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vincenzogold
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+xThe goal (by the AAFC) is that in five years time the second division would have promotion / relegation to the A-League. Would all the rules about player's eligibility be removed by then too?? Otherwise relegated teams would struggle to field a team, and promoted teams would have to invest heavily in players to make the step up. This exactly. With all the regulations it makes it almost impossible for promotion and relegation.
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sokorny
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So would Lakeside Stadium fit the definition of a boutique stadium?? I would imagine the running track around it might discount it as boutique.
Be interesting to see what they define as boutique. How big does the capacity have to become for it to no longer be boutique??
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Holding Bidfielder
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So now that we have a better idea of the second division, which clubs does everyone think are likely to participate given what we know?
So far:
> South Melbourne
> Wollongong Wolves
> Brisbane Strikers
> APIA Leichhardt
> Heidelberg United
> Gold Coast City
> Adelaide City
Who else?
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