Does anyone have attendance statistics for NPL sides?

Do any regularly get more than 1000?

Good thread, Grazor.

I'm surmising South Melbourne frequently exceed 1000.

I think they've reached 5000 in NPL Cup matches and Football Aus Cup games, with clubs all over Aus participating, including A L clubs.

unfortunately crowds are down a lot in vic this season.  i think the inclusion of npltv has made people complacent to stay at home instead because of the cold which is very disappointing.

Yeah pre covid numbers are probably fairer since a league and nrl numbers seem to have crashed (and not recovered in either case with the exception of magic round)

if we have at least 8 clubs that are already pulling 1000+ bar global pandemics. That seems a phenomenal foundation for a second division

I agree with Johnny last Saturday night there would have been maybe 400 at South v Hume .... and thats counting the canteen ladies,  Dont think its just covid but the cold winters and indifferent comp has killed whatever good will the fans had left.... First 3 or 4 rounds when the weather is good are usually decent crowds and derbies in VIC can get 2 to 3000 crowd depending on who is playing  but a freezing Sat night in industrial Broadmeadows kills the attendance. In saying that, there is life in some of these old girls yet and I believe that on a good day Melb Knights, Heidelberg, Dandenong Thunder, Preston Lions, and of course South can average 1000 even without NSD, with it then could be double or triple what WU and  Macarthur average, and if any of these clubs where in the Aleague, then would be a lot healthier still....

Interesting post.

This also occurred in Tasmania, with Football Tas having live streams. 

Personally, it is so much better being at the live game - as long as one has a good viewing seat.

I tend to agree with this and i might add, that crowds in NSW NPL pre covid were much better, people now tend to stay away from 'larger' crowds. 

Not many clubs in NSW would make that 1k mark in my opinion, wollongong can still draw a crowd, rockdale and United... everyone else has been below par. 

Cant believe this thread has not taken off?

Not long ago there seemed to be a plethora of avid NPL fans on FTBL Forum, who were long term supporters of a few clubs like  South Melbourne, Melbourne Knights, Sydney Olympic and Sydney United. There seemed to be quite a lot of patriotic NPL fans, particularly in NSW and Victoria.

I thought Brisbane Strikers had a few fans on here too.

Nothing worse than feigned empathy Decentric... 

I seem to remember a massive South Melbourne thread that seemed to go for years!

One guy on here was a professional football scout, and was a passionate South M fan.

There is another who still posts, who is also a passionate South Melb fan, and, who was, could still be, a NPL club President for another Victorian club.

And yet you imply that these posters are fans of their respective clubs because of a sense of "patriotism"? Have you discussed this with them personally or just making the same old divisive FFA "effnik sokkah" assumptions?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

I'd like to see the older NSL, now NPL clubs, included in the mainstream football milieu.

I'm not 'anti-ethnic' football club. I was a Technical Director of  what was considered to be a traditional  NPL club - with strong ethnic roots to a European country. 

As soon as Devonport Strikers have played in NPL and FFA Cups, they have had had good turn outs - up to 2000 spectators.

South Hobart and Hobart Olympic have also drawn close to 2000 fans for NPL Cup and FFA Cup games too.

HHHHHHHmmmmmmm

Part of Footballs issues over the decades is the one up-man-ship .....

I can't stand NSL folk almost willing the A-L to fall over.... equally I can't stand people wanting the former NSL sides to fall over....

The truth as I see it is many if not most Football folk in Australia see our issues as not only easy to fix ... but with simple ideas .... and then we compare ourselves to Europe and South America ... anyone who even suggests our sporting environment is a tad different is quickly told we are not unique or similar....

The very simple if unpleasant truth is the mix of teams in the NSL was never ever going to get main stream support no matter how successful...

We don't have a community support in professional Australian Football..

The world is in the grip of ‘you don’t need to understand to manage’.

Specialists versus generalists. Each only sees the lack of their expertise in the other.

The ancients moved in tribes because all skills were needed to survive. Industrialisation accelerated the way we could all work separately, but together as a society.

Technology has enabled large numbers of people to survive without understanding how anything works, and forget how each of us still relies on many others?

It certainly allows senior executives to think they know what is going on ‘at the coalface’. The humble dashboard somehow became the Holy Grail.

Fundamentally APL, FA , State Feds,&  NPL [as well] use their power and influence, together with corporate BS and safety in numbers, to bamboozle the Football community. Failures are translated into successes, or reinterpreted as events beyond their control. Ineptitude is just covered up.

If pushed, as in the need to publish annual reports, performance is measured against fast moving goalposts, instead of a five-year strategic plan.

The victim is the Football community, many of us stoically continuing to support both professional and community Football. The community has no voice, and is too geographically and demographically diverse to reach, APL, FA & State Feds platforms.

The people running the game think differently. They’re all about the corporate image, branding, performance indicators, revenue streams, managing outcomes, profit yields, the corporate family, marketing, all stuff that is important to them but you wonder the relevance of it to the rest of us. Professional administrators speak a different language.

Football in Australia doesn’t need saving, it operates and flourishes at all levels expect the “professional level”.

Professional Football in Australia at all levels, needs to understand they need community Football to support them and they do SFA to get that support.

Pretty bang on post Mid.... especially the last two lines.

This weekend in the NSW NPL in the Rockdale v Sydney United ( Croatia) match the attendance will be NIL as our ethnic cousins can't behave themselves.

This would best be answered by MONO, over to you big man.

Sorry mate, I dont know much about the historical ethnic tension between Croatian and North Macedonian football fans. From what I understand its a bit of shithousery based on both being decently supported clubs and ethnicity has nothing to do with it..... Should change your quote to " young football fans don't know how to behave themselves" but that doesn't suit your white Australia policy I suppose?

Spectators banned for all MV's NPL 3 games, over to you Sutherlanbear to blame the effniks for this as well.....

Temporary restriction on NPLM 3 attendance: Springvale White Eagles FC and Melbourne Victory FC matches

• All home matches for SWE and MVFC will be played as closed door matches, with no spectators permitted to attend from either the home or away teams.

• All away matches for each team will proceed as fixtured, however only spectators connected to the home teams will be permitted to attend. No spectators aligned to SWE or MVFC will be permitted at matches.

The period of the Interim Suspension Order will not last beyond the date upon which any investigation or any subsequent Tribunal proceedings are concluded.FV will not be making any further comment in relation to this matter until the investigation has been completed.


https://www.footballvictoria.com.au/news/temporary-restriction-nplm-3-attendance-springvale-white-eagles-fc-and-melbourne-victory-fc

which was a ruling made by the unorganized federation called FNSW...

So what's your excuse for NIL fans week in and week out? P.S - those stuffed sharks toys dont count as fans. 

gawd Sutho, as you well know “It‘s the morons that spoil things for the rest of us. This was a very small percentage of people at the ground.”
https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/football-news-2021-rockdale-ilinden-fc-sydney-united-58-fc-brawl-footage-fans-banned-from-stadium/news-story/8561a28f214ae93ed5313db74f0f7ca9
Above from one article and many know those causing the troubles were not regular supporters but typical lost millineals.
By the way good that both Clubs acted on it and have paid the price in fines/points and granted any 2022 game would be behind closed doors, justice had been served whats your prob.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/sydney-football-stabbing-rockdale-fight-erupts-after-soccer-match/f3fbc50b-2676-473b-a421-97f5a2ef7584
These types ruin a good day all over the football world to date no matter the background, timid compared to whats occured in the good ol firm derbies eh. Oh buts thats different I expect.

I quoted few years ago I won't go to anymore wsw/sfc derbies especially at parra.
The behaviour stinks talking about can't behave, when the rbb we're at their peak it wasn't about football - turn it up.

@ midfielder,  I read one of the reports on optussport they have on the state of the game and it had Danny Townsend saying how good Keepup website is for Australian football.  It is absolutely horrible!
Cannot believe the group thinking emerging from the FA.

its the right idea done badly

Why 1,000 ?

At least some of these clubs seem to have football specific stadiums and a large social media following.

if u have that and crowds already around a thousand when the pandemic clears up, that should be a big enough support base to have a full time professional team (say fifteen players and a coach on at least federal minimum wage). If there are already around 8 teams like that, a second division with those teams would surely already average 1500+ given there should be a boost from a better competition

if that’s  the case, surely we can just do a second division that is financially viable and full time set up quite quickly?

perhaps im overestimating the support for the bigger npl clubs though

Why did my comments get deleted?

I think there's only a couple of mods left and they can't be bothered arguing with anyone about rights or wrongs.

Next thing, one day you'll just find you've been banned.

Hi Muz, I have sent you an private message detailing the reasons.

Why was my response to Muz deleted?

Hi Monoethnic Social Club,

The response was deleted because it contained within it the material quoted in my previous post. 

Ummmm, I don't have legal background like yourself ( I once shagged a legal secretary though)  but how is this any different to your post previous where you actually quote what Muz said?  Different rules for different posters I guess?

Hi Monoethnic Social Club,

As the post was only used to be a guide and model of misconduct its posting is allowed. The legal issues behind this is: in your case it was not allowed because it did not show clear disapproval from a representative of the site. I would have preferred to keep your posts and replies but it has been used in cases to sucessfully imply defamation.

Well I'm thankful at least that my post won't be used to successfully imply that I agree statistically that Mitch Duke is a more accomplished #9 than Viduka or any other such garbage that seems to have permeated the forum these last few days. Your preference to have kept my post, despite legal constraints, is duly noted and filed away in triplicate.

Hey mate? Are you OK?

I hope the 'discriminatory and defamatory' language I used against your hairy chested, hairy arsed, swarthy brethren didn't upset you too much.

My sincerest apologies.

PS: Please don't sue me or 442.

Thanks mate. 

Thanks for asking Muz, I am feeling a little fragile. As a proud, hairy, swarthy and often sweaty Greek God I am feeling quite litigious at the moment....... 

Can you give a gist of what u said?

Hi Grazorblade, I won't repeat what was said but it went against the rules of the site and was also potentially defamatory.

What a fucking joke. You've turned up here after God knows how long away and immediately start throwing your weight around. 

'Discriminatory and defamatory' your words, my arse.

The facts are if there's crowd trouble in the NPL it's generally because of clubs with Croatian, Greek, Macedonian or Serbian supporters.

That's the facts. They might be uncomfortable facts but they're definitely not defamatory or discriminatory my ring.

Head on back to your CCM forum and leave us alone.

Hi Muz,

I respect your opinion and realise I am a relative newcomer to many on here. I was made a Moderator on here without ever asking to be one simply because I reported one issue. I attempted to formally resign a number of years ago but recieved no response and I remain Moderator.

I come from a legal background. Once I returned a few days ago, and my account became active, I then once again had a legal duty to this site and to remove any potentially defamatory or discriminatory content I saw. I have this duty for the sole fact that the powers I was given have not been removed. 

What you said and I quote:
 "It IS your Greeks, Serbs, Macs, Cros that are the major source of drama here 9 times out of 10."
First of all this is a violation of the Forum's internal rules, more specifically on Discrimination.
Second it could  be viewed as racial profiling and is also potentially defamatory.

I remind you and all members of the forum the rules and regulations of the Forum found here: 
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1569279/FORUM-RULES-REGULATIONS

Terms and Conditions of using the site found here:
https://www.nextmedia.com.au/terms-conditions/

This is INDEED racial profiling of the highest order and absolutely disgusting and abhorrent behaviour. Implying that a troublesome individual is only such because of the ethnicity of his or her parents and then at the same time pretending to be some sort of champion of women's rights, the black lives matter movement and the freedom fighting Ukrainian patriots is borderline. 
I feel both defamed and discriminated against and would like to file for punative action against the defendant Muz as I had the misfortune of being exposed to his loathsome comments and they hurt my feelings.  As a disciplinary action I would demand that he be forced to attend a minimum of 5 NPL fixtures involving only clubs once banned from using their preferred club names by the, thankfully, now repealed NCIP.
Thank you your honour.

Isn't 'truth' one of the pillars that makes a statement NOT 'defamatory'?

If it is a FACT (and the TRUTH) that pointing out crowd trouble usually comes from (following used for example purposes only) Croatians that support Sydney United how is that defamatory or discriminatory?

As an example. It is usual, at the Australian Open, if there is crowd trouble it is because of Serbs or Australian with Serbian heritage.  That's a fact. Explain to me what the issue is with stating that if it is true?

I mean dumb it down for me. Most of my lawyering knowledge come from Tom Cruise and Matthew McConaughay movies.

Presumably if an African holds up a 7-11 you warn the police not to say we are looking for a man of African appearance and warn them they should say we are looking for a 'homo sapien of indiscriminate gender' lest they 'racially profile' someone?

Truth is certainly a pillar to defence in defamation but not all people who support Sydney United would be Croatian. Even less would be people involved in the crowd trouble and without clear, unrefutable evidence that they all are it should not be used to smear the broader innocent community of ethnically Croatian people. If you wanted to discuss and issue with crowd troubles at a Sydney United game you mention the individual(s) e.g. a small group of people, supporting Sydney United caused crowd trouble. The focus on ethnicity is the issue. 

In regards to your Serbian example, crowd trouble at the Australian Open is not exclusive to those with Serbian heritage and shouldn't treated as exclusive to that ethnicity. If it is an absolute fact that an indivdual, for instance, was ejected from the Australian Open with Serbian heritage for causing crowd trouble. Their ethnicity still remains largely unimportant because the broader Serbian community is not guilty of an offence by an individual and should not be tarnished with the guilt of an individual or group.

 Their ethnicity is not relevant to what you alledged, it does not matter what ethnicity the person is, Australians committ offences everyday but we do not hold every single Australian accountable for those offences, just the individual regardless of ethnic background. 

In regards to your 'African' example, it is different if someone is alledged to have committed a crime and are actively wanted by the police. Which they cannot do with out sufficent evidence of a crime being committed. The difference is that guilt is being ascribed with out due proccess, proccess that the police and courts are capable of.

I appreciate you wanting to discuss this issue in the open but can I please ask that it is done in the Extra Time section of the Forum and we stop derailing this and other threads.

As long as you keep removing comments from threads here they should be discussed in the thread in question.

Ethnicity is 100% a factor and 100% relevant. Wishing it weren't so doesn't make it less true. 

You are living in an alternate universe if you're pretending it isn't.

I mean FFS they tried to get rid of ethnicity from football clubs because of perceived and actual problems with fans of certain ethnic persuasions.

They're actual facts.

Obviously no work on at the moment 

Hey JP,

I am confused by your "legal duty" as the T&C's clearly state in Clause 4 (ref below) that there is no obligation:

4. Monitoring

Nextmedia shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor the content of the Community Areas to determine compliance with this Agreement and any other operating rules that may be established by Nextmedia from time to time. Nextmedia shall have the right in its sole discretion to edit, refuse to post or remove any material submitted to or posted on the Community Areas. Without limiting the foregoing, Nextmedia shall have the right, but not the obligation, to remove any material that Nextmedia, in its sole discretion, finds to be in violation of the provisions hereof, otherwise objectionable or stale. Notwithstanding this right of Nextmedia, users shall remain solely responsible for the content of their messages. You acknowledge and agree that neither Nextmedia nor any of its affiliates shall assume or have any liability for any action or inaction by Nextmedia with respect to any conduct within the Community Areas or any communication or posting on the Community Areas.

But being a lawyer (cough cough) I am sure you know the law better than me and so I am sure if you believe there is a legal obligation then there must be one, which raises another interesting legal question. An office holder (ie Moderator like you) retains the responsibility of the office until they resign, being "inactive" is hardly an excuse a judge would accept for not fulfilling your legal duty.

So coming from a "legal background" (cough cough), I am sure you know that the statute of limitation for defamation is 1 year so there are an awful lot of posts that need to be edited under your legal duty as a moderator. In addition to all the effnick slurs MSC has been coping in the last year (and longer), there are numerous defamatory statements made against various players in the numerous game day threads, the Matilda's, Lowy. Fox sports, and dont even mention the trans-testicles and anti-vaxers.

Plus using your SydneyUnited/Croatia logic, there are a lot of defamatory statements being made against Russians in the Ukraine thread, as it is clearly known not every Russian supports the war.

Also as a lawyer (cough cough), I am sure you are very familiar with Copyright laws so I assume you will also exercise your legal responsibility in enforcing Clause 3.3 from the T&C's: 3.3. You shall not upload, post or otherwise make available on the Community Areas any material protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right without the express permission of the owner of the copyright, trademark or other proprietary right.

I have seen heaps of what I believe is unauthorized copyright material being posted, (pictures, full articles, videos, etc). none of which have the authors permission. As I understand this is a bit more problematic as copyright is owned for 70 years (as I m sure you know) so I suggest your legal responsibility would be to check every post ever made to ensure there aren't any infringements.

Just trying to help you fulfill your legal duty.

just reposting so you cant edit or delete

Ha ha yeah I'm thinking JP might be gone for another while now
What a buffoon

ThanKs for corroborating my evidence  Your subpsubpoena will be served once me legal team files the suite You can pleade the "fifth amendment" if you like since we're all doing crappy 90s legal dramas.....

Ah fair enough!

if there are 1000 croatians and 1000 greeks are turning up for souths and knights it does sound mad to not have them and any other npl club of similar stature form a full professional second division since we are so desperate for clubs for young players to go 

Hahahah  bang on Grazor.... Getting back to the real purpose of the thread, I can tell you that last night Lakeside didn't have 1000 fans... It was 1st v 4th towards the end of the season so would have expected abit of interest. If I had to guess I would say about 700-800  max. Thing with Friday night games in NPL is it only works with some clubs and not others. Anecdotally clubs like Preston Lions get a decent following on Friday home games as most of their fans are from the Northern sub  and getting to the club on Friday night for a drink with the boys is easy... South fans are traditionally from all over Melbourne and everyone I chat to complains about how hard it is to get into Albert Park on Friday night.....
Another thing to think about is that taking the best 2 or 3 NPL clubs out of the state environment will basically kill off any travelling support for the other clubs left behind.... basically in our league its really us, Knights and maybe Burgers who travell away in any significant numbers.,, Most of the Gully fans last night seemed to be friends and family of the players , nice people and thankful they came but maybe the scarfs and beanies will get chucked in the bin when their son or boyfriend changes clubs next year?.

'legal duty'

:laugh:

I'm interested in the correct phraseology for discussing crowd troubles and matches played behind closed doors with clubs of certain ethnic histories.

If a Kalathumpiam club is responsible for trouble why is it discriminatory or defamatory to say the Kalathumpiams are causing the ruckus?

Why not call them Kalathumpian - Australians? Or even just, you know, run of the mill multicultural Aussies? Even Ramsey St has wogs living there these days mate c'mon be a little more accepting of people wanting to live here in peace and safety. 

Just to clarify '(insert country here) Australians' or 'Australians of (insert country here) heritage' would be OK?

Notwithstanding legal niceties C/O Mr Perry Mason. 

People should just go and watch football live in person without sitting there counting the crowd.  If you require some sort of validation that going to watch a football game is something deemed socially acceptable then that is of course your choice.   It's the beautiful game for a reason and like I always say....

Support your local football club.   :cool:   

You do wonder how 442 wasnt sued into non existence whilst JP was off doing whatever. So good he's back defending the good name of Cros, Greeks, Macs and Serbs.

How we survived I do not know.

MMM I smell somebody playing a "lawyer on television". 

Hahaa

Didn't realise mods suffered conscription

Did the others dig a tunnel ?

At the moment they definetly seem rather low, but I think only because of the Covid hang over and, at least here in Victoria, a very cold winter. Been some decent crowds for the Australia Cup fixtures this year though. The few fixtures I have attended looked to be pushing the 1000 mark.

Things will probably pick up again post covid. Apart from magic round nrl crowds seem to halved along with a league crowds

which sides have pushed a thousand? Do u reckon between the states there are a dozen that could push a thousand? Sydney olympic seem to have a large social media following

Also noticing some clubs have special built stadiums of 10k or more capacity

1000 is pretty decent with the cold and post Covid hangover.

If there are 8+ teams that push 1k in crowds outside of covid times and have specialty stadiums, is there any thing stopping these teams forming a second division tomorrow with some light requirements (say 15 full time players on at least federal minimum wage and a full time coach on at least the same)

like do they legally have to wait for permission from the ffa? Sounds naively like this could happen tomorrow if the above requirements can be met?

Good point, Grazor.

We used to have a number of active members on FTBL Forum, and I've seen some post recently, who followed their NPL clubs closely. These NPL clubs I would assume are the bigger crowd pullers too in the bigger cities - like Melb Knights, Sydney United, Marconi, Sydney Olympic and South Melb.

What about all the issues we've had at A-league games, A-league academies, AFL and NRL crowds? Is it because their ethnicity? 

Are those incidents at clubs who are generally based on a certain ethnicity or are they just run of the mill moron skips?

Let me know which monoethnic AFL or NRL clubs you are taking about.

And don't get me wrong. The morons in the NRL and AFL are just as bad as any of the idiots in our game

What sort of spectator numbers is your NPL club drawing, FL?

Maybe 100. :crying: 

Rough

good on you for being part of that

was it better before covid? What is your club

Nah about the same to be honest. Big Portuguese community but no one comes to watch. The football club and social club are physically connected but need to form a better connection in other ways.

I support Fraser Park FC in FNSW League Three.

Ah fair enough if its a lower division