This is fantastic stuff NicCarBel, or are you really Andy Howe haha.
I'm not positive, but I don't think Tassie's NPL links below to North and South. I think it's selective pro/rel like the old NSL days.

wow what background info and work NCB ! kudos mate.

Yes, doesn't look there is anymore - reference point I used had promotion playoffs (so, not direct, but a link) but looks like that link no longer exists.

Yeah, I remember playing against them back in the day... Was a South American club back then, not sure about now though.... 

Got a really nasty injury there once... studs scrapped down the inside of my thigh, 7 stitches,,,,,  bugger didnt even get a card :(

Nic your a nutbag.... Great data mate, thanks for taking the time to do it... Malvern City v Old Scotch is separated by Gardiners Creek and have chased balls down the fast flowing river many a time in my junior days, not easy to do in studs.  :)

reminds me of the river at Riverside here in Queanbeyan. They've had to build a massive, massive fence, but someone still has to go get the balls, go figure hahaha.

But yes, very close at (by the ruler) 400m apart.

I am a nutbag, but it will help with my logo project I've referenced many many times before.
Imagine when I end up labelling all the non-league/association competitions haha

You know my take mate.... these CLUBS are everything and are to be celebrated every chance we get.!!!!!!!! Well done.

Would be interesting to just have a central database of clubs, etc somewhere for us hey. I wonder if there's a webpage I can run that on.

All the leagues I had done before, plus (and I'm basing this off NSW here, so not sure how different it would be in other states), the association first-grade competitions (which I believe for Football NSW, there is 30 across the state)

Anyways, back on topic, now having been through every current NPL structure - My dream pyramid (if we can't go any lower than what I've been through) is that we actually can connect 9 leagues (NPL + Northern Territory) into 1 league (Australian Championship/NST) when the time comes. And it's basically the way that Mono suggested earlier - the return of the NPL Finals, held as a festival of football of sorts.

There's two methods in my mind of doing this, one is a straight up knockout bracket, until one winner remains (this team would be promoted, and then the relegated Championship team goes into their state's NPL - if that means the NPL has a weird number of clubs that season - such as 13 or 15, so be it). If just single-leg and no seeded teams, then this means 7 games in total.

The other is a single round group system + semi finals and final, which would be 15 games in total (until I outline the snag in the plans below).

First is that there is no single NT league. This is simply fixed with a playoff between the winners of the Northern and Southern leagues to determine the NT Champion. Then there's how to get the 9 teams down to 8 - who does the NT team playoff to finalise the 8 clubs? Because, let's face it... NT is probably the member federation that's Oceania. We could try and determine some sort of co-efficient, with the lowest two member federation champions playing off each year as the first game of the NPL Playoffs (that's what I'm calling this). The other option is, because I would assume ACT/Capital Football and Tasmania to be the two weakest federations, that these two champions play off against both the NT champions (which would kill two birds with one stone - get the NT playoff out of the way, and whittle down to 8). 

If we take the second method of NT team playoffs, this brings the Full Knockout format total of games to 9, and the Group Stage format total of games to 17.

According to wikipedia we have 14000 clubs. How many are in a pyramid

Depends how many slaves we have I guess

I'm using Wikipedia as a base too and sort of formalising the current pyramid as it stands (that one on Wiki is slightly out of date with regards to QLD, TAS and NNSW especially).

It's not completely flash yet, but here it is.


I can't speak to number of clubs (yet - watch this space), but in addition to the 54 leagues outlined in my posts earlier, there are an additional 67 Regional/District leagues across the country that do not connect directly to the NPL. I mean.. I'm assuming that each of these regions/districts will have their own first-grade league of some sort. That's my next crazy project, adding these into the geographical mix (some NPL clubs would run reserve grade style teams in these districts as well, so won't be including them as part of that league per-se - one example would be Yoogali Soccer Club, who in effect have their third-grade team playing in the Griffith District competition).

Im a fan of method #1, straight knockout but either or really... just have to make the process fair. 

. 

well 13990 are in some form of "pyramid" or another ....... Its just up to FA to connect the levels..... Nic, your research is stellar btw, do you know if these regional leagues are interconnected?  This is all fascinating.

Then the clubs have a number of teams, reserves, youth/academies, amatuers, collegiate etc. Yeah we really need a centralised database for all this, and probably someone in each state/territory to keep it up to date! Each season you get new clubs, dying clubs, renamed clubs, abnormal division changes, pro/rel slot changes... And then you don't get notified of the changes. It would do your head in.

Me too. just deciding how to do 9 (10) into 8 is the issue. Might see how an AI bot would go devising that actually.
The other way other than just a playoff down the bottom end is to sort of seed them like how the Club World Cup was, but you would have to devise a co-efficient system to seed the strength of each league.

Eh, they're all a bit weird.
ACT for example have 5 State Leagues that are interconnected, but these are also littered with lower grades of the higher up clubs. I believe once clubs register players, etc, then Capital Football divvy up the 5 State Leagues (and the lower 5x social leagues that are not connected).

NSW doesn't have a direct link either - although they run an annual Champions of Champions competition post-season with the champions of each districts competition (and age group competitions as well) invited to take part. So, theoretically, if they ever wanted to connect these regional leagues to the NPL structure, this is how they'd do it. If they do that, personally every club, no matter the level they are currently at, needs to be tied to an association. Just in case they ever get relegated down back to the regional district leagues, they already have a home.

These leagues would be the equivalent of Victoria's Metro leagues that sit under the State League (which I gather might sort of be a mish mash of the two ACT and NSW formats above?)


Yep, that's would be the beauty and pain of it all hahaha.
I mean... the upside now is, all these competition draws/ladders are online, so modern day + going forward it would just take a bit of time to set up initially, and then just update accordingly each season. It's the historical context that would be a pain. Yoogali and Hanwood in Griffith for example: Hanwood is in the Wagga league now, having previously been in the Griffith league, and previously in the Goulburn Valley league, and then previously in Griffith, and previously in GV again, and previously in Griffith. Could be a stint back in Wagga again there before my time for all I know, and then pretty sure there was a joint venture with Yoogali (no idea how that worked) back in the 70s to play in Canberra (similar to the Rhinos of the late 2010s) and managed to win the Federation Cup. So if the Australia Cup was around back then in it's current format, they would have actually made the National Round of 32.

Wow my Google Earth folder is a mess after putting the admin work to make the folders for these. But, essentially here's the numbers on all these extra leagues (running total in brackets):

• Northern Territory is just the two zones as before, so no new additions there.
• Tasmania + ACT both sort of just have "State Leagues" underneath with reserve grades and other clubs mixed in. So, for the purpose of this, the extra clubs that are only in these leagues are just listed under "State Leagues" (2)
• NSW has "Metro Associations" - which also generally have a representative team in NPLs either Youth, Seniors or both. Eg, Bankstown United are a youth only team, yet Nepean FC run in the NSW League 1. So, in the event of these associations having one of these set ups that aren't in the senior NPL leagues, I'm adding them as a club in the Metro Associations section. Not counting these though, there are 16 Metro Associations. (18)
• NSW also has 3 regional branches (Western NSW, Southern and Riverina) that their regional associations are split up into. I believe some branches have their own league (such as Western NSW), but until I get that far in my research, we'll just count the 14 Regional Associations as individual leagues (32).
  Note that Albury-Wodonga is registered as both FNSW Riverina Branch, but also with FFV - as they have a youth association club in Murray United, I've decided to only include this association as Victoria, rather than NSW.
• Victoria has a similarish set up below - with the Metropolitan Leagues, and Regional Association leagues. I know there are 9 Metro league divisions (also split geographically), but at this point in time I am going the ACT/TAS route (33).
  
• FFV lists 12 regional associations (including Albury-Wodonga as mentioned earlier). (45)
• Northern NSW has 7 zones - I haven't delved in if there are associations below this (there probably is), but at this point, I'll just count the Zones (52)
• QLD has community league zones as well right across the state. I assume Metro and SEQ would be split up even further, but for now I am just counting each zone as one league (64).
• WA seems to be set up similar to Victoria, so Metro Leagues as one league + the 6 regions I am considering as one league each for now (71).
• SA is the tricky one. They have an associations list, but it also includes the Collegiate Soccer League, and South Australian Amateur League. So... for now, I will just take these at face value and add each league as one league. Although, some are listed as Junior Leagues, so until I do full research, I'm just counting each league (84).

A year or two ago I did the numbers on SA. A few clubs have flip flopped between amateurs and collegiate, so the numbers might be slightly out today. Collegiate had 27 unique clubs, amateurs had 72, 35 in NPL and state league, 1 in A-League, Limestone Coast had 6, Whyalla had 5, Riverland had 4, Port Lincoln had 4, and Broken Hill had 4 (they were under FSA).
158 clubs all up. 9 leagues with their own pyramid (or closed off).

yeah curious if p and r stops once you get 20 divisions below the npl. If a bunch of randoms started a club  at the bottom of the vic/qld/nsw pyramid and got promoted every year, how many years until they are in npl 1?

haha imagine that promotion trail and ride lol.....

Christ 13990 registered Clubs.

Vic and Qld have the longest pyramid structures.
Assuming a club was admitted at the bottom of each member federation this year (except NT and TAS, as NT doesn't exist, and TAS with no direct P/R into their NPL) and wins every season until they are in NPL1 - this would be their first season in NPL under each state:

ACT: 2025
SA: 2026
WA: 2026
NSW: 2026
NNSW: 2028
VIC: 2031

Queensland is the one that's a bit iffy, as it depends on A) where the club is located in SEQ and B) if they're "Promotion Ready". Assuming they are promotion ready:
Darling Downs: 2027
Sunshine Coast: 2027
South Coast: 2028
Brisbane: 2030

here's one for you
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3lc3ouzRVrXNF5hD2nKvMh

Started in 17th Tier, West Sussex Division 4

I get so triggered watching clips of him on game day.
But, basing this of the small interview as part of Welcome to Wrexham, seems like a great football bloke, very impressive.

Dont forget the church leagues in some states :)

Watch out for next year's NETFLIX sensation "Welcome to Wodonga".... 

13990 registered clubs all doing their little thing for the greatest game in the world....  but Lowy went fishing where the fish where not.... 

haha, like my experiences going fishing, very Lowy type football, one day or morn its on the next weeks NOTHING !
Thats AL Club supporters, turn up when the tide is high, once low - gonnnnnne !
Throw the burley in ? oh none left used up.

Ooof that might be for another topic...

Just going through all the associations one at a time and adding leagues to my little pyramid doc haha. Just NSW so far. Some associations with their own pro/rel set up (Central Coast, Blacktown and Bankstown for example) and others with just a "Premier League". Anything that falls outside this, I'm just doing as a "Community Leagues" folder/division as the level underneath.

Regional NSW is where things will get interesting.
So, they are split up into 3 branches, which each have 4-6 associations in their sub branch.

• Western NSW with Bathurst, Dubbo, Lachlan, Lithgow, Orange and Western Plains.
• Southern Branch with Far South Coast, Highlands, Eurobadalla, Shoalhaven and Southern Tablelands.
• Riverina with Wagga Wagga, South West Slopes, Griffith and Albury (although, as stated earlier, I've put them into Victoria for reasons).

Progress update for the lulz:

Noting that I am only counting clubs registered with each member federation / associations within that at the moment (which means, as one example, no church leagues).
Basically any club is fair game to add (whether its a Womens only, or Junior only as well), with the exception that I am not adding specific teams that are solely School teams (example, in Canberra, we have high schools competing in NPLY and junior community leagues only). The reason I'm doing this is because, well... we're doing a pyramid, right? I'm structuring based off that, so in the event of Women's only clubs (eg, South Canberra FC) they've been put in the "Community Leagues" section for the relevant association.

• 3 x NPL/State Leagues
•  16 x "Metro" associations. All 16 have a "Premier" league, and then community leagues underneath (32) + 9 of them seem to have their own second division in between (41)
• 3 x Regional "Branches", with 1 officially having their own league (Western NSW), 1 unofficially having their own league (Wagga Wagga hosting the Riverina clubs), and the third without a Branch-wide league (Southern NSW), as some of these have association clubs competing in Metro Sydney. (43)
• 14 x associations across these regions. Any clubs that aren't captured in the Western Premier League, or Wagga's Pascoe Cup have just been put into their association as one league each (57 'leagues/divisions' across NSW).
  
  EDIT: Damnit something is finally stopping me from adding the image of the map
  Hopefully this one works
  https://ibb.co/kmXpd6B
  

A nationwide pyramid should be pretty easy. NT doesn't really have anything beyond park football, so shouldn't be part of it. Then you can have:

A-League 1: 16 clubs, 30 rounds, 2 relegated

A-League 2: 16 clubs, 30 rounds, 2 promoted (the second team via play-offs), 2 relegated

Championship: 2 conferences x 16 clubs, 30 rounds, 1 promoted from each conference (via play-offs), 2 relegated [the conferences would be divided into North: NSW/QLD/NNSW/ACT and South: VIC/SA/WA/TAS, although experience suggests they will be dominated by NSW and VIC teams respectively]

NPL: 8 conferences, 1 per state. 10 clubs, 27 rounds for ACT/TAS, 16 clubs, 30 rounds for everyone else. Inter-state play-offs determine the 4 promoted teams.

Below NPL level it should just go State League 1, State League 2, etc., splitting up into regionalised conferences as you get further down the pyramid. VIC could keep its current model. In TAS, SA, and WA you would just go with a north/south split and that should be enough. QLD could go straight to a North/Central/South split below the NPL, then to its nine regions.

NSW is the complicated one. Riverina and Monaro should be fully integrated into Capital Football (which would become an ACT & SNSW federation). The north coast and New England clubs should be properly integrated into a NNSW pyramid. And then you have NSW proper. I would suggest three statewide tiers as currently the case (NSW Premier League, League 1, League 2). Then a conference split four ways (NE, SE, NW, SW). And then 16 regional divisions at the base of the pyramid, with 13 of them roughly corresponding to the present metropolitan districts, plus Central Coast, Illawarra and Western NSW as regional districts.

A key element of the pyramid is to cover all parts of the country, allowing clubs representing mid-sized cities (like Ballarat, Rockhampton, Coffs Harbour, etc.) the chance to ascend up the tiers, rather than being stuck with district level football. If they make it all the way to the A-League it would be quite the fairy tale (like Morwell Falcons back in the day).

That pyramid should only apply to First Grade teams (except perhaps for A-League academy squads). Reserve and youth teams should be part of a separate pyramid that tops out at statewide level, and runs on a club championship basis. There's no point getting 12 year olds to fly interstate.

Would be brilliant if it happened!

I can live with not nt representation