97K for a name like Beckham wasnt that much in itself. 56K for the biggest derby in the country is poor though.

Poor I must say

Interesting.

Thanks.

Some interesting discussion about Pay TV ratings in this thread.

Edited by Decentric: 14/12/2010 02:25:03 PM

Top 10 Sport Broadcasts Week 51: 12 December - 18 December 2010

1 LIVE: CRICKET: NATIONAL ONE DAY CUP FOX SPORTS 2 Sun 14:36 - 103
2 LIVE: FOOTBALL: EPL MAN UNITED V ARSENAL FOX SPORTS 1 Tue 6:55 - 76
3 CRICKET: WORLD SERIES CLASSICS FOX SPORTS 2 Sun 14:15 - 65
4 FOOTBALL: EPL HIGHLIGHTS FOX SPORTS 1 Mon 21:30 - 57
5 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE SYDNEY V BRIS FOX SPORTS 1 Sun 17:00 - 55
6 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE PERTH V C COAST FOX SPORTS 1 Sun 20:00 - 51
7 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE N QLD V SYDNEY FOX SPORTS 1 Wed 21:00 - 47
8 LIVE: INSIDE CRICKET FOX SPORTS 3 Mon 20:30 - 40
9 THE BACK PAGE FOX SPORTS Tue 20:00 - 35
10 CRICKET: ASHES: 3RD TEST DAY 2 FOX SPORTS 2 Sat 10:30 - 34

Games not included in top 10 (under 34k)

Wednesday 15 December 2010 - Newcastle Jets/Gold Coast United
Friday 17 December 2010 - Adelaide United/Melbourne Heart
Saturday 18 December 2010 - Wellington Phoenix/Newcastle Jets,
Saturday 18 December 2010 - Melbourne Victory/Perth Glory,    
Saturday 18 December 2010 - North Queensland Fury/Brisbane Roar

Damn those are some sobering numbers.

We just can not seem to get anywhere near where we once were.

I saw stats from 2006 that showed a MV game at 103K, yet now clubs seem to struggle to hit 60k. Given what is likely to be increased subscriptions over that time, these numbers are even more alarming. The weirdest thing is, the football gets better and better, yet the ratings decline :(

The problem with Heart/Victory as a 'derby' yeah, it's a derby, but it's still not really that important compared to a regular match.

I mean, SFC vs MV at the back end of last season was getting around 100k, because whilst it wasn't a derby, it was a rivalry, and well contested one at that.

If it was 1v2 MH vs MV we'd probably see 100k being hit again.

and crowds, year after year. At season's end my money is on spin by the FFA somehow showing how much it's all improved. While the heads buried from the problems, the eyes can't see how to solve them.

Sure, but still guys, comparing to 2006 is not entirely fair as we should all acknowledge - the context of the A-League was quite different back then, with it being a new and exciting product. There were alot of curious folk probably not only attending the games, but also checking them out on Foxtel. And yeah, there's been a decline and that's certainly concerning, but it's good to see some clubs now trying some quite radical measures (free tickets) though the real question is what measures they have in place longer term, to capitalise on those free tickets and the PR that generates etc... I don't mean to sound flippant or something, but the ratings, with the crowds, will bounce back, atleast a little, in the coming years, surely - both through natural means and the sheer hard work of the clubs and even, yes, hopefully the A-League.

And that next TV Deal will be interesting indeed, ofcourse, especially as I believe that the WCQ's being removed may not impact as some may think, given half the Socceroos' fixtures, including Asian Cup matches, will still remain available to Pay TV, so remain bundled.

And I hate to say this, but we DID have probably a bit, hate to say it, riding on the Socceroos at the 2010 World Cup, though tbh most of we punters were more circumspect ever since the WC draw was announced, because of our 'Group of Death.' The 'new' A-League was riding the wave of the '06 World Cup, no doubt about it and many of us were 'hoping' for a similar wave from 2010, which never came. It was certainly quite a shame and we will have to wait 4 years for another chance of a 'purple patch,' though we will also have the Asian Cup here in 2015, which should be great. Making the 2014 World Cup, let alone doing well in it, is a long way away for this squad in transition though, so I can understand, empathise with more bleak views, though guys like Holman and even Spiranovic, provide hope.

Sorry that was a bit of a tangent, but when I think the first couple seasons of the A-League, I also think the lustre of the 2006 World Cup and the goodwill that continued towards the game the 18 months or so after it. So again, it just underscores, how big a deal it is to qualify for that World Cup and then to leave that tournament with a strong impression. We're not unlike the US in that way too - As their MLS also benefits ALOT from strong US performances at World Cups, especially from their 2002 success - fairly similar to our league in the wake of 2006, I guess.

One would hope that the ratings and the crowds would bounce back - but the reality is that crowds were far lower in the old NSL days, and it's quite possible that the problem wasn't the ethnics, the perception of crowd trouble, or even the playing standard, but simply the Aussie mentality.

Crowds and viewing figures MIGHT bounce back... But they also MIGHT continue to slip... And as I've said a few times over the last year - trying to sell a product to tv, when viewing figures at the venues and on the screens, are dropping, and when part of the product (world cup games) is being taken away), is not an easy job - especially when the next deal needs to be around double the current deal to put franchises in the financial position they need to be.

Then it cannot be soley about the playing standard.



The "Aussie Mentality" maybe, I think if it comes down to a "family friendly enviroment" then it is a poor offering at the moment.
Football is not only competing with other sports but is also competing in the entertainment industry for market share.
Rather than a Player Salary Cap, we needed a Minimum Marketing spend for all franchises, not only for promotion and advertising but for match day entertainment.
I still go back to what Nick Tana did with Perth Glory under more trying circimstances than today's market, what he acheived with Perth Glory was nothing short of spectacular.
Players back then also received bonus's not on win/loss but how many turned up.

As for TV ratings crowds help viewing, watching a game on TV with heaps of empty seats does affect and devalue the viewing experience.

Great post Arthur.

It's also very hard yakka following the A league. It's not easy like supporting the NRL/AFL where your bompbarded with news and everyone knows when a big game is on.

I don't think we need that amount of support but just a few more reular things. Sports show wise we have two on FTA and their both Monday night on the lesser channels.

I can think of a few things we can do with no money but all pales when compared to what you can achieve with $$$$

Edited by Andyroo: 21/12/2010 12:23:48 PM

Don't compare it to 2006 in general, which btw, wasn't the best ratings year by a long shot. Compare it to last year and then compare last year with the previous year, ect, ect. You won't find a better look regardless of what you compare. It followed a similar pattern to the aleagues, though this seasons drop appears (without doing a detailed comparison)to be appreciably more than the league's drop from last year.

I'm not sure what can be done, if anything, when the reduction appears to be just a case of the novelty wearing off. With the aleague fan's obvious penchant for wanting something for nothing, maybe Fox can give free subscriptions and a Happy Meal (with toy player figures) voucher for each aleague game watched.

Thanks Andy

I'm so disappointed that Santo Cilauro didn't come up with an A-League or Australian Football show ala his World Cup show.

This is something needed, a light hearted look at our game. My kids adored that show, and so to their school friends which had them talking about the game.
For me that would be a great spend (Marketing dollars), a one hour weekly show.

And it just goes to show you can get away with a football show that is not showing an hour of highlights, they would just show goals and all the humourous things during and surrounding the match about 5 minutes of high lights and 55 minutes of laughs.

Edited by Arthur: 21/12/2010 01:02:46 PM

Edited by Arthur: 21/12/2010 01:03:41 PM

I have a slightly more positive view.
Between week 45 and 50, FOOTBALL account for no less than 50% of TOP10 Sports Broadcast and peaking at 70% in week 45. Therefore FOXTEL would be dumb to drop the HAL unless it lost the EPL, and I can't see it happening.
Sure the numbers are not big, but FOXTEL needs subscribers, and this would be jeopardised by removing programming that consistently rate in the TOP 10 Sporting Broadcast, particularly as FOXTEL is now fighting new FTA channels on all fronts for viewers and programming.
These ratings are great for the HAL. and Football generally.

If FTA are keen on the EPL because they see a far great FTA audience for the game, then a combined package with HAL would be even more strategically sound, given HAL rate at about 75% of EPL audiences (based on FOXTEL numbers).

Assuming FTA could triple audience then EPL would rate around 180K per program and HAL around 135K ( 75% of EPL) - for an average of 155K. Ten football programs per week is and extra 1.5 - 2.0million viewers, which is a great way to feed a new FTA Channel link to one of the big FTA's.

Edited by backfour: 21/12/2010 02:10:37 PM

i was one of them!!! :cry:

I am waiting for someone to shoot you down with some sort of logic. I refuse to try and do it myself.
If nobody shoots you down by tomorrow, I will be relatively happier. Good luck.

EDIT: LOL, with shoot you down I mean counter your argument, not literally shoot you.

Edited by notveryclever: 21/12/2010 02:07:42 PM

Fox won't drop the A-League, that's not worth worrying about... It's the lack of other bidders to push the price up that is the concern.

The tv won't be worse, it will probably be better, the issue is HOW MUCH BETTER - because with the current model it needs to double to give the franchises a chance.

It's not inferred fox would consider dropping the aleague. What keeps them safe is being a summer sport when available content is at it's lowest and there's no sports alternatives to replace it.
Btw, 2 to 3 games a week rate in the top 10 sports broadcasts, yes, but only when there's little content in winter and certainly never when it overlaps the other two telecast codes. Or three with super 15.

Surely the numbers in August wouldnt be too different to the numbers in October or December.

This would prove that AFL/NRL fans arent waiting for their codes to end to follow ours as the numbers havent translated across.

It also proves that duel code followers, as the name implies, can follow more than one sport similtaneously, and have already picked up our code in August

Surely the numbers? What proves what?

What numbers have you seen that are surely? I have no idea because I haven't seen any of the numbers you speak of for several years, so i also don't know what proves what. I'd think 'surely' and "prove' should read "I'll hazard a wild guess and assume because i don't really have a clue what the numbers are." Correcto?

I have no idea of the point of your post, btw.

Coming from the person who said "certainly never" :lol:

Not a very smart girl, are you?

Read my comments as posted below.



See the bolded section, honey bun? See what it refers to? The top 10 sports broadcasts. Your comment as follows- " Surely the numbers in August wouldnt be too different to the numbers in October or December" relates to the numbers, Okie?

Well, the numbers aren't published unless they're in the top 10 broadcasts. So, seeing the aleague didn't come within cooee of being in the top 10 broadcasts during the overlapping period and the numbers weren't published, you, I or the sparrow sitting on the fence post over there, don't have a damn clue in regards to "Surely the numbers in August wouldnt be too different to the numbers in October or December".

I'm now hopeful my comment re - "certainly never" is understood and you're no longer confusing numbers and top 10 broadcasts. Never mind, it's just the changeable weather playing tricks on your powers of comprehension.

Now, if you want any information re your question, research the first and I think, the second season's ratings. They were then the top 50 - all programmes - 5 city metro only. They should show at least some of the aleague ratings during the overlapping period.

They then dropped to top 20 and now top 10 of each genre. Fox receive a lot of criticism for not being open enough, often enough and not extensive enough with their published ratings. The criticism has merit. They tend to prefer to hide details. If the trend continues they will be only showing the top rated 3 of each genre in a few years times.

So explain this then:
http://www.screenhub.com.au/news/shownewsarticleG.asp?newsID=34004

Or is this just an estimate? I dont know how ratings work.

This season is too hard to judge because ratings are ridiculously low but it would be interesting to know if last season the ratings in August are similar to those of October or December.

I agree that our ratings dont compare to the winter codes but what Im hoping to see is that they remain consistant. Because there is a difference between being lower because they have more fans base, and being lower because we are a second choice sport / summertime filler.

And the word 'surely' can also be used in the context of uncertainty. Surely you know that.

I hope you dont think you're clever calling me a girl :roll:

whatever the ratings are, no HAL match should be televised live in the city its being played, and their needs to be a better balance in the scheduling for what works for attendances and what suits Foxtel

I had not seen that site previously and not aware of any ifs or buts concerning the information found.

A quick look back shows a definite quietening of aleague ratings during the overlap. When other codes disappear they pick up. How much can't be measured as there's too many missing too often from a summarised list. It's not clever calling anyone a girl, it's lack of patience.

You can look back to the start of the aleague yourself at Astra.org.au

Week 52: 19 December - 25 December 2010

1 LIVE: CRICKET: NATIONAL ONE DAY CUP FOX SPORTS 3 Thu 18:14 - 80
2 CRICKET: WORLD SERIES CLASSICS FOX SPORTS 3 Thu 17:52 - 47
3 LIVE: INSIDE CRICKET FOX SPORTS 3 Mon 20:30 - 47
4 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE PERTH V ADEL FOX SPORTS 1 Wed 22:00 - 44
5 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE GCOAST V CCOAST FOX SPORTS 3 Sun 17:00 - 38
6 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE C COAST V N QLD FOX SPORTS 1 Wed 19:30 - 33
7 ULTIMATE FIGHT NIGHT 22 FUEL TV Sun 16:00 - 29
8 DARTS: WORLD DARTS CHAMPIONSHIP FOX SPORTS 2 Sun 15:30 - 28
9 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE SYDNEY V MELB H FOX SPORTS 1 Thu 19:00 - 26
10 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE PRE GAME SHOW FOX SPORTS 3 Sun 16:30 - 26

Week 1: 26 December - 1 January 2011

1 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH FOX SPORTS 1 Thu 20:28 - 147
2 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH PRE GAME FOX SPORTS 1 Thu 20:00 - 71
3 RACEDAY SATURDAY Sky Racing Sat 12:00 - 62
4 LIVE: FOOTBALL: EPL ARSENAL V CHELSEA FOX SPORTS 1 Tue 6:55 - 61
5 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE MELB V V NEWC FOX SPORTS 1 Mon 18:00 - 53
6 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE BRIS V G COAST FOX SPORTS 1 Sun 19:15 - 47
7 LIVE: FOOTBALL: EPL FULHAM V WEST HAM FOX SPORTS 1 Sun 22:55 - 42
8 LIVE: FOOTBALL: EPL BIRM V MAN U FOX SPORTS 1 Wed 6:55 - 42
9 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE ADEL V SYDNEY FOX SPORTS 1 Wed 20:00 - 41
10 LIVE: FOOTBALL: EPL TOTTENHAM V FULHAM FOX SPORTS 1 Sat 1:55 - 41

Week 2: 2 January - 8 January 2011

1 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH FOX SPORTS 3 Sat 19:30 - 184
2 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH PRE GAME FOX SPORTS 3 Tue 19:00 - 62
3 RACEDAY SATURDAY Sky Racing Sat 12:00 - 57
4 CRICKET: WORLD SERIES CLASSICS FOX SPORTS 2 Mon 21:35 - 52
5 LIVE: FOOTBALL: EPL CHELSEA V A VILLA FOX SPORTS 1 Mon 2:00 - 47
6 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE MELB H V N QLD FOX SPORTS 1 Sun 17:00 - 46
7 LIVE: CRICKET: TEST RSA V IND 3RD TEST DAY 5 FOX SPORTS 2 Thu 19:28 - 45
8 LIVE: CRICKET: TEST RSA V IND 3RD TEST FOX SPORTS 2 Wed 19:28 - 43
9 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE ADELAIDE V BRIS FOX SPORTS 1 Sun 19:05 - 42
10 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE NEWC V SYDNEY FOX SPORTS 1 Mon 17:00 - 41

This is what we should be doing before we contemplate FTA

Yes, but lets see how the KFC big bash rates 135 games into a 6 month season.

Week 3: 9 January - 15 January 2011

1 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH FOX SPORTS 3 Sun 18:56 - 192
2 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH FOX SPORTS 2 Thu 20:28 - 155
3 LIVE: FOOTBALL: AFC ASIAN CUP FOX SPORTS 2 Fri 00:00 - 114
4 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH PRE GAME FOX SPORTS 3 Sun 18:30 - 101
5 LIVE: FOOTBALL: AFC ASIAN CUP INDIA V AUSTRA- FOX SPORTS 2 Mon 00:00 - 81
6 LIVE: CRICKET: TWENTY20 BIG BASH PRE GAME FOX SPORTS 2 Thu 20:00 - 78
7 LIVE: CRICKET: PRIME MINISTERS XI FOX SPORTS 1 Mon 10:35 - 76
8 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE MELB V V ADEL FOX SPORTS 2 Sun 15:00 - 61
9 RACEDAY SATURDAY Sky Racing Sat 11:30 - 60
10 LIVE: FOOTBALL: A-LEAGUE SYDNEY V MELB V FOX SPORTS 2 Sat 19:30 - 54

Seeing the cricket is well under way, just to play silly buggers and kindly assist some tea and scones 'debate', here's some FTA ratings on both 20/20 and last nights 50 over between Au and Eng. Not apples for apples but an insight into the glaring difference in numbers available to draw corporate backing.

Note - fta ratings are 5 city metro, only. There's no regional areas included, which usually adds around 25-30 percent to the metro total.

20/20 last week -
4 Twenty/20 Cricket – Australia vs England Nine 1,237,000
1 Twenty/20 – Australia V England Nine 1,317,000

Last night's (Sunday) 50 over -
1 Network 9 ONE DAY CRICKET -AUSTRALIA V ENGLAND GAME 1 SESSION 2 1,716,000
4 Network 9 ONE DAY CRICKET -AUSTRALIA V ENGLAND GAME 1 SESSION 1 1,037,000