I have said this before Roar need an Argentinian style dribbler.
Now i am not saying that the wheels have fallen of Roar and before chips jumps in i am not saying the dribbler has to be from Argentina just that style. ps and i did not mention messi so neither should you chips.
The problem as i see it with the way the 433 as it is being in forced is it is a system that doesn't leave any room for the dribbler who can hassle a packed defence. Nor does it produce a dead ball expert.
Roar should again look at Barcelona "buy what you can not produce"

i dont think ange is in any rush to change up the formation. even if we did sign a player with the abilities you're talking about, ange wont make many changes just for one player. our current foramtion works very well at the moment so he will stick with it.

however i do agree that they need someone with who can take on players and create attacking opportunities. we have issey farran who fits the bill to an extent but he's just under performing in almost every game.

the tranfer window is coming up and if the bakries dont open up their wallet for some quality players then i think i speak for everyone when i say i'll be EXTREMELY dissapointed.

I'm not a big fan of the 4-3-3 formation to start with. The weak link is the 3 in the midfield. 2 of them are usually wide players which opens up the midfield for the opposition midfield to pour through when they use a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 formation. This is suppose to be negated by the 2 wide front players in the front 3 to drop back and create a 4-5-1 of sorts. So in my opinion the 4-3-3 is very susceptible to the counter strategy. That is to say if the 2 wide of the front 3 don't get back fast enough the midfield is toast.

I think I read somewhere Harry Kewell was not happy by the 4-3-3 formation as he played left wing which meant he was doing way to much distance mileage during a game for this reason also. When it comes to formation I prefer to see a 4-4-2 which is not in the 4-3-3 category of formations. BUT! If you play a 4-4-2 and push a defender forward whilst attacking this becomes a 3-5-2 which is a derivative of the 4-3-3.

I think the Roar have simply switched to playing more attractive football which is less results based. I've seen quite often teams play brilliant attractive and highly entertaining football and not get the result. I believe teams that can play attractive entertaining football should get the result first then entertain. It's a fine balance.

Teams that fill the cupboard with silverware that are brialliant teams also learn how to win ugly. It cannot be all show and no go.

My thoughts anyways.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 11/12/2011 12:13:17 AM

@krones, Its funny how you decided to say it now, when it worked for the roar for the past 36 games until last sunday against sydney!
When i look at the roar broich is the man and he isnt a dribbler hes a playmaker and thats what brisbane lacked in the last two games, creativity!
Mind you when the roar have players like Danning and Henrique they offer something different to the roar in terms of dribbling and direct play, it would be interesting if Ange P decides if he needs more quality players when playing in the ACL.

I have said it before just not on this forum
After watching Roar play and the way there opponents have attempted to counter it, i have come to the conclusion the one thing they lack is a dribbler. Would be good to see them have one to use sparingly as the moment dictates.

I think the reason for the defeats is more a question of tactics used against Roar than the fallibility of their system.

Roar often play a very high defensive line. To do this one needs the keeper to play out from goal as a sweeper and play some distance of his line.

Opposition teams have tried to play balls in between the defensive line and the keeper without success until the last two weeks.
I didn't really see the first defeat, inflicted by Sydney, but I saw a bit of Heart's first half and all the second half.

I note that Sydney applied intensive squeezing too.

Heart played some very effective combination football in the first half. They had a handy lead. They often played an intense full press, interspersed with some half pressing. They also played the defensive 4-3-3, with the defensive midfield triangle. This reverted to the
4-2-3-1 in defence.

At times Roar struggled to play out from the back. Time and space was restricted.

In the second half, Heart played a half press and partial press, defending deep. It was very effective for about 30 minutes. Then they seemed to run out of gas, struggled with organisation, lost shape and hung on for a lucky win.

Heart's 4-3-3 beat Roar's 4-3-3.

Edited by Decentric: 11/12/2011 07:53:46 PM

Edited by Decentric: 11/12/2011 07:54:10 PM

Professional teams should be fit enough to play a 4-3-3 in attack, with the defensive midfield triangle. Then play a 4-2-3-1 in defence, with the two wingers dropping back in line with the attacking midfielder.

This creates a compact midfield.


4-3-3 with the two screener triangle in midfield.

...X................X...............X.................X.....

................X........................X

............................X

....X.......................X.........................X

This 4-3-3 variation can become a 4-2-3-1 by moving the wingers back to the attacking midfield line. The 4-2-3-1 is a more defensive variation of the 4-3-3 version with midfield screeners in the midfield triangle.


4-2-3-1

...X................X...............X.................X.....

................X........................X

.....X.....................X......................X

...........................X......

One can also use the 4-3-3-in attack and the 4-2-3-1 in defence.



At the last World Cup Germany, Holland and Spain all used the 4-2-3-1.

Spain in particular rotated the midfield triangle to the attacking form.

Busquets or Alonso sat, whilst the other went forward on occasions.

Edited by Decentric: 11/12/2011 08:06:25 PM

This is the more attacking version of the 4-3-3. The triangle which has one screener and two attacking mids.

The 4-3-3 with one screener in the midfield triangle.


..X................X...............X.................X.....

............................X

................X......................X

....X.......................X.........................X


For Spain sometimes either Alonso or Busquets sat in front of the back four, whilst the other went forwards to create an attacking midfield triangle with Xavi.


Roars always seem to have Paartaluu sitting.

Roar often push up both full backs, whilst Paartaluu moves back in the middle and Smith and Jurman play out wider. This creates a back three. The Roar shape then evolves into a 3-4-3.



Edited by Decentric: 11/12/2011 08:12:39 PM

they would have the same problem regardless of formation, the squad is average players who have been made into passing robots, they lack a player who can dribbe in around the box ie a creative player.
anyone think that you can coach creavity in young players ?

I do
IMO it is more not coach them out of it and encourage it protect and nurture it the kids will do the rest.
That's what i do with great success.

I do.

My partner at FFE, Coach C, is extremely confident in teaching creativity.

IIRC you also stated that Ange P's appointment at Roar would prove to be a disaster.

Oh dear.

top answer, had a player at epl club junior setup, in 2 years not one session on dribbling.

Roar still suffering.

At Everton they do a lot on dribbling.

Coach C from FFE visited Everton earlier this year and brought back some good training ground drills for dribbling from their youth academy or whatever it is called.

He also visited Man City, but I'm not sure what content he observed. We do heaps of Everton stuff at FFE.

I didn't se the Sydney performance, but the game against Phoenix was their worst. They miss Broich, Smith and Henrique.

I thought Heart were lucky in the second half, after playing scintillating football in the first.

A 36 game losing run and your initial claims re AP's appointment might get traction.

Do you hate AP as much as Paul Lonton?

No i like AP, Paul lonton just has to get out of Queensland football.