Australia's most successful football club?


Australia's most successful football club?

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thupercoach
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Just looked it up, impressive football history. Any clubs top it?

http://www.hakoah.com.au/content_common/pg-hakoahsydneycity.seo

Hakoah - Sydney City Soccer Milestones

1939-1953 - In January 1939 a small group of Jewish emigres, who had been kicking a ball at Rushcutters Bay each Sunday, met to discuss the formation of a soccer team. That meeting resulted in the birth of Sydney Hakoah Football Club. It was not until 1954 that Hakoah started to make its presence felt and was admitted to the Southern League, the State's division, together with Sydney Austral of Dutch origin and Prague which comprised mainly Czech migrants. The team played in distinctive blue and white striped shirts with Magen David badge which was to become famous as the colours and emblem of Australia's greatest club.

1954/55 - Signing of former English first division professional Bill Walsh, centre half of Sunderland, and Australia's internationals Clem Higgins and Bill Murphy.

Achievements: Second in the League and Grand Final participant.

1956/57 - Admitted to the newly-created first division of the New South Wales Soccer Federation following the breakaway ny a number of clubs from the FIFA associated Soccer Association.

Made the first appointment in Australia of a full-time coah and secretary/manager, the former England international Jack Gibbons who was previously coach of Israel's international soccer team.

Achievements: Won the Kennard Cup.

Signed former Scottish international Jack Adair and ex-Hungarian first division striker Jules Forgacs plus former Crystal Palace forward Frank Hearn.

Achievements: Ampol Cup Finalist

1958/1959 - Signing of former Austria first division players Kurt Speigel, Willi Wesely and Peter Hrncir.

Achievements: Fourth in League and Winner of Federation Cup Final.

1960 - Fourth in League - a poor season despite the addition of brilliant Australian International Ray "Whoopy" Neal.

1961 - Star of the "Golden Years" following the Club's move to Wentworth Park and importation of Israeli internationals Raffi Levy and Gerry Chaldi plus six Austrian first division players, including the illustrious Karl Jaros. Over 96,000 fans watched the team's league games.

Achievements: Finalist in Ampol cup, Winner Federation Cup and Winner of League Grand Final with a 4-1 score line in front of 18,432 spectators.

1962 - Achievements: Second in League, Ampol Cup quarter-finalist and Grand Final Winner beating Budapest-St George 4-2 (including a hat-trick by the prolific Herbert Ninaus) in front of 26,770 spectators.

1963 - Signed Israel's player of the year "Danny Boy" Shmulevich and former English first division player Matt Woods from Blackburn Rovers. Signed former English great Len Quested and 20 goals scored by Ninaus in 21 matches.

Achievements: Won the Federation Cup deafeating South Coust United 2-1 in the final with the first goal scored by Bernie Gold. Local Juniors Peter Fuzes and Robert Fekete selected in New South Wales under 18 squad.

1964 - Newly signed stars included Welsh International Trevor Edwards and Leo Baumgartner, arguably the best Austrian player ever seen in Sydney Soccer.

Achievement: Federation Cup quarter-finalist.

1965 - Played visiting Israeli team Hapoel Tel Aviv, winning 7-1. The Club's coach Tiko Jelisavcic was chosen as Australian coach of the first ever Australian World cup Team. The team included such illustrious names as former England International winger Doug Holden and Alan Marnoch.

Achievement: Ampol Cup Semi-finalist, won Federation cup 3-1 against Pan Hellenic and Australia Cup 2-1 against Apia.

1966 - Winner of the League Grand Final, Ampol Cup finalist, Federation Cup semi finalist and Australia Cup finalist, all matches being played versus Apia. Winner Federation Cup championship shield. Greater emphasis on local players including international Ray Baartz. Peter Fuzes chosen for New South Wales state team.

1968 - The year of Hakoah's greatest achievements, under new coach Doug Holden, winner of:
1.
League premiership

2.
League grand final beating Pan Hellenic in front of 22,000 fans

3.
Australia Cup (virtually the National Championship) beating Melbourne Hakoah over two legs 3-0 and 3-1.

4.
Ampol Cup beating Melbourne Croatia 3-2.


1969 - Third in league and Ampol Cup finalist.

1970 - League premier and Ampol Cup Finalist

1971 - Manager Tibor Kalman who changed the style of play by importing 5 Brazilians including the brilliant Agenor Muniz and Hilton Silva and signing the great Aussie Striker John Watkiss. Former President Karl Rodny appointed Manager New South Wales Soccer team.

Achievement: Won League premiership and New South Wales state cups. Nominated best Club team in Australia, beat the Queensland State team 6-0 in Brisbane.

1972 - A disappointing season. The team started with former Celtic and Leeds International Bobbie Collins as coach and finished with a new coach in Wolverhamptons goalie David MacLaren who later became manager of the Social Club.

Fourth in League.

1973 - League premier and grand finalist Ampol Cup Winner.

1974 - League premier and grand finalist Ampol Cup Winner.

1975 - The year was marked by the untimely death at the age of 46 of Manager Tibor Kalman who had lead the team to 4 premiership wins in 5 seasons.

Fifth in League.

1976 - Players who were to form the nucleus of the club's final years included such stalwarts as Murray Barnes, Todd Clarke, Agenor Muniz, Steve O'Connor, Alex Robertson, Terry Smith, Hilton Silva and Joe Watson.

Gerry Chaldi became the team's coach.

Third in League, Winner of Ampol Cup.

1977 - Name changed to Eastern Suburbs Hakoah. Winner of first National League known as the Philips Soccer League (PSL).

Major addition to playing staff in former Aberdeen star Eddie Thomson later to become the Club's coach and coach of Australia's national team.

1978 - Name changed to Sydney City, home ground moved to ES Marks Field. Winner of PSL championship. The Club's coach Gerry Chaldi named "Coach of the Year".

1979 - Ampol Cup winner, Philips top four champion.

Eddie Thomson becomes coach and together with manager Andrew Lederer leads Club through its final years as Australia's most successful and best club team.

1980 - Winner of National Soccer League (NSL), Grand Final runner-up.

The team includes future International Jimmy Patikas, striker Ken Boden and Australia's most successful goal scorer John Kosmina.

1981 - PSL champion for the third time in a row and top four champion for the third time in four years.

1982 - Signing of Australian International striker David Mitchell.

Winner of NSL for 3rd year in a row - by a record 9 points.

1983- Runner-up in League to St George-Budapest.

1984 - League split into two parts with the Sydney City winning premiership of the "Australian Conference".

Grand Finalist losing to Sydney Olympic by 2-1 after extra time.

1985 - League again renamed as Northern & Southern Divisions. Winner of Northern Division. Signing of Frank Farina, later to make his name in Australia's national team and with European first division clubs in Belgium and Italy.

1986 - Fifth in the League and winner of Nanda Cup in the Club's last full season.

1987 - Sydney City plays its last match and withdraws from NSL on 30 March.

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It is either Marconi or South Melbourne.
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T-UNIT wrote:
It is either Marconi or South Melbourne.


The above stats look mighty impressive...
thupercoach
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T-UNIT wrote:
It is either Marconi or South Melbourne.


The above stats look mighty impressive...

sorry, double post

Edited by thupercoach: 19/4/2012 05:56:57 PM
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thupercoach wrote:
T-UNIT wrote:
It is either Marconi or South Melbourne.


The above stats look mighty impressive...


Yeah, they won several minor competitions here and there, good stuff. Marconi and South Melbourne have been national champions 4 times each, and for that reason alone, they should be the most successful Australian soccer clubs.
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T-UNIT wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
T-UNIT wrote:
It is either Marconi or South Melbourne.


The above stats look mighty impressive...


Yeah, they won several minor competitions here and there, good stuff. Marconi and South Melbourne have been national champions 4 times each, and for that reason alone, they should be the most successful Australian soccer clubs.



Club Champ Runner Up Years

Sydney City 4 times 3 times 1977, 1980, 1981, 1982


Marconi Stallions 4 times 3 times 1979, 1988, 1989, 1992–93


South Melbourne FC 4 times 2 times 1984, 1990–91, 1997–98, 1998–99

3 great clubs, South Melbourne comes third to Sydney City and Marconi. Stats don't lie. Noone's counting the "minor competitions here and there". Learn your history son before arguing with the big boys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Soccer_League




Edited by thupercoach: 19/4/2012 08:25:31 PM
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Calling for opinions before shutting any suggestions down.

Crap topic.
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RedshirtWilly wrote:
Calling for opinions before shutting any suggestions down.

Crap topic.
Didn't shut any suggestions down, just pointed out T-Unit's historical inaccuracies with facts. If anyone can mount a better argument, and one or two clubs can, I welcome it. I think it's important to respect and acknowledge football history in this country, not only did the game not begin in 2005 but it also did not begin in 1990.

As I said, all suggestions/ arguments welcome, but they have to based in facts.
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Perth Glory.
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Sydney FC. Suck it cunts.

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

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South Melb won Oceania Club of the Century
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Melbourne Victory
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According to stats of the old NSL considering time in the competion the Melb Croatia/Knights team has the most impressive resume when it comes to the old national comp check the stats and prove me wrong? came into the comp in 1984 winning 2 titles back to back 3 or 4 loseing grand finals minor premierships plus national cup wins etc etc!!check and you shall see?
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Sydney City were always a joke.

Would try to buy the league every year, had about 20 fans and no interest.

Even funnier were Lowy walked in the 80s and they foled.

Edited by ralerasic: 20/4/2012 05:02:18 PM
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South Melbourne is Oceanic team of the century, to logically South Melbourne would be Australia's best club?
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Axelv wrote:
South Melbourne is Oceanic team of the century, to logically South Melbourne would be Australia's best club?


Correct.
Statistics are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFFHS_continental_Clubs_of_the_20th_Century#Oceania
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aynoc wrote:
Axelv wrote:
South Melbourne is Oceanic team of the century, to logically South Melbourne would be Australia's best club?


Correct.
Statistics are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFFHS_continental_Clubs_of_the_20th_Century#Oceania
Agreed. SM win on points due to doing so well in the CWC.

But whoever said that SC tried to buy a prem every year is being particularly naive or one-eyed - the likes of SM, Marconi, Olympic and Perth were signing players galore year after year. Having watched most of the NSL I remember it well.


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so going by all that the knights win hands down because we never went chaseing after any players!!lol
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We should run a poll.
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cro69 wrote:
so going by all that the knights win hands down because we never went chaseing after any players!!lol
By that logic you guys should! :) I don't remember you guys or indeed Sydney United buying too many players.
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thupercoach wrote:
cro69 wrote:
so going by all that the knights win hands down because we never went chaseing after any players!!lol
By that logic you guys should! :) I don't remember you guys or indeed Sydney United buying too many players.


pretty much we grew them from within and intern gave guys that no other club wanted a go and still played well!!lol=d>
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thupercoach wrote:
aynoc wrote:
Axelv wrote:
South Melbourne is Oceanic team of the century, to logically South Melbourne would be Australia's best club?


Correct.
Statistics are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFFHS_continental_Clubs_of_the_20th_Century#Oceania
Agreed. SM win on points due to doing so well in the CWC.

But whoever said that SC tried to buy a prem every year is being particularly naive or one-eyed - the likes of SM, Marconi, Olympic and Perth were signing players galore year after year. Having watched most of the NSL I remember it well.



This
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http://iffhs.de/?0cf3370ff73117fe2c0bf23c17e23a09e33b17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e20f92300f7371e


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ralerasic wrote:
http://iffhs.de/?0cf3370ff73117fe2c0bf23c17e23a09e33b17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e20f92300f7371e



more than happy to accept the ruling for SM as the best NSL club ever. I wonder though how things compare pre-1977?

As we would need to draw a line somewhere I am happy to declare SM the winner. And a great club it is too, steeped in history. But if that line were to be drawn in 1930, I wonder...? Any historians out there willing to do a study?
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thupercoach wrote:
ralerasic wrote:
http://iffhs.de/?0cf3370ff73117fe2c0bf23c17e23a09e33b17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e20f92300f7371e



more than happy to accept the ruling for SM as the best NSL club ever. I wonder though how things compare pre-1977?

As we would need to draw a line somewhere I am happy to declare SM the winner. And a great club it is too, steeped in history. But if that line were to be drawn in 1930, I wonder...? Any historians out there willing to do a study?


I reckon most of the states were so dramatically changed by the post-war migrant soccer boom that comparison is almost impossible both within states and between states. Likewise, the onset of the NSL saw a lot of the stronger clubs leave those comps - and by necessity rendering a state championship thereafter a lesser achievement.

For example, from 1963-76, Hellas and Juventus won all but two state league titles in South Australia. In Victoria, Hellas and JUST shared 11 titles from 1962-76. It's also complicated by how much value you put on the Australia Cup, played from 1962-68. George Cross were Victorian runners up about 8 times in the pre-NSl era, only becoming champions in 1977, and yet have one of an Australian Cup to their name.
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Blackmissionary wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
ralerasic wrote:
http://iffhs.de/?0cf3370ff73117fe2c0bf23c17e23a09e33b17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e20f92300f7371e



more than happy to accept the ruling for SM as the best NSL club ever. I wonder though how things compare pre-1977?

As we would need to draw a line somewhere I am happy to declare SM the winner. And a great club it is too, steeped in history. But if that line were to be drawn in 1930, I wonder...? Any historians out there willing to do a study?


I reckon most of the states were so dramatically changed by the post-war migrant soccer boom that comparison is almost impossible both within states and between states. Likewise, the onset of the NSL saw a lot of the stronger clubs leave those comps - and by necessity rendering a state championship thereafter a lesser achievement.

For example, from 1963-76, Hellas and Juventus won all but two state league titles in South Australia. In Victoria, Hellas and JUST shared 11 titles from 1962-76. It's also complicated by how much value you put on the Australia Cup, played from 1962-68. George Cross were Victorian runners up about 8 times in the pre-NSl era, only becoming champions in 1977, and yet have one of an Australian Cup to their name.


I think the "historian's exercise" of comparing state league clubs in the post-migrant boom era is so hard I don;t know if anyone would even bother contemplating it. Is the Hellas of South Australia that won half the titles over 13 years in the 60s/70s comparable to the top clubs of the stronger Victorian and NSW leagues?? I guess it's academic, and all deserve respect. Probably the best comparison is to be made once the national competition was formed, and going by that reckoning it's South Melbourne then Sydney City then Marconi that are the top 3. Please note I was not talking about the "best team", that's an entirely different conversation.

From a personal viewpoint, it's sad the Sydney City left the NSL in 2987, and I can't help but wonder how successful they could've been in the NSL had they hung around another decade - put it this way, on a titles per NSL seasons played they win by miles.

Overall I am happy to declare South Melbourne the winner. I also look forward to putting this against the HAL over the next decade or so once the new competition matures and more of a track record and pattern develops.
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In the National Soccer League for the 10 seasons spanning 1989 - 1998 the Melbourne Knights was the number one ranked side:
Position    Club    Points
1    Melbourne Knights    499
2    Adelaide City    498
3    South Melbourne    495
4    Marconi Fairfield    491
5    Sydney United    442
6    Sydney Olympic    418

NSL Finals games only

Games: 10
Knights wins: 5
South wins: 4
Draws: 1

All-time national league table

Melbourne Knights is ranked 5th out of 46 clubs that have competed in the national competition (NSL and A-League):
   Played    Wins    Draws    Losses    Points    Pts per match    %Win
South Melbourne    792    381    178    233    1321    1.67    48.11%
Marconi Fairfield    788    362    180    246    1266    1.61    45.94%
Sydney Olympic     770    326    190    253    1168    1.517    42.34%
Adelaide City     770    324    193    253    1165    1.513    42.08%
Melbourne Knights    581    252    126    203    882    1.518    43.37%
Sydney United     577    242    142    193    868    1.50    41.94%

Read and weep as you can see Melb Knights are 5th on all time NSL list and Syd UTD 6th not bad for 2 teams that came in 8 years after NSL started.
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Of course I'm showing my bias but South has to be declared Australia's most successful club. 4 national titles, 2 national cups, 8 state league titles, Oceania team of the century award and countless minor cups(Docherty, Ampol, Buffalo cup etc). We've averaged around 1 championship in the highest competition available to us every 4 and a bit years we've been around(53).
Knights and Syd Utd should be proud of themselves for their records as they constantly punched above their weight. Super record in pumping out all those Socceroos. Better than anyone for sure.
But on facts and figures alone and not percentages South is the winner i reckon.
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SMFC and proud wrote:
Of course I'm showing my bias but South has to be declared Australia's most successful club. 4 national titles, 2 national cups, 8 state league titles, Oceania team of the century award and countless minor cups(Docherty, Ampol, Buffalo cup etc). We've averaged around 1 championship in the highest competition available to us every 4 and a bit years we've been around(53).
Knights and Syd Utd should be proud of themselves for their records as they constantly punched above their weight. Super record in pumping out all those Socceroos. Better than anyone for sure.
But on facts and figures alone and not percentages South is the winner i reckon.


As I said above, I have my own bias, but I am happy to name SM the best NSL club, with Sydney City a close second. I ask the theoretical question how well SC would've done had they hing around another decade. But then how well would've MK done if they had come in a decade earlier? It's all academic of course.

On another site (the old TWGF) we went through an exercise of going through the "best of" of each of the NSL clubs, and came up with some pretty impressive lineups.

I put forward my best Sydney City side:

..............Clarke
Hooker...Robertson...O'Connor...De Marigny
.......Barnes.....Cant
Watson....................Patikas
......Mitchell......Kosmina

Subs: Pezzano, Gomez, Boden, Farina
SMFC and proud
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thupercoach wrote:
SMFC and proud wrote:
Of course I'm showing my bias but South has to be declared Australia's most successful club. 4 national titles, 2 national cups, 8 state league titles, Oceania team of the century award and countless minor cups(Docherty, Ampol, Buffalo cup etc). We've averaged around 1 championship in the highest competition available to us every 4 and a bit years we've been around(53).
Knights and Syd Utd should be proud of themselves for their records as they constantly punched above their weight. Super record in pumping out all those Socceroos. Better than anyone for sure.
But on facts and figures alone and not percentages South is the winner i reckon.


As I said above, I have my own bias, but I am happy to name SM the best NSL club, with Sydney City a close second. I ask the theoretical question how well SC would've done had they hing around another decade. But then how well would've MK done if they had come in a decade earlier? It's all academic of course.

On another site (the old TWGF) we went through an exercise of going through the "best of" of each of the NSL clubs, and came up with some pretty impressive lineups.

I put forward my best Sydney City side:

..............Clarke
Hooker...Robertson...O'Connor...De Marigny
.......Barnes.....Cant
Watson....................Patikas
......Mitchell......Kosmina

Subs: Pezzano, Gomez, Boden, Farina


I reckon my best ever South team would wipe the floor with that Syd City team!!!!!

Petkovic

Davidson Durakovic Blair Postecoglou

Tassios Wade Crino Boutsianis

Trimboli Brown

Subs: McLaren, Kisnorbo, Muskat, Petersen, Bozinovski, Ollerton, Yzendoorn, Lozanovski, Egan........I could go on forever

Coach: Ferenc Puskas

Fuck we had some great players.

Edited by smfc and proud: 25/4/2012 09:48:16 PM
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