The core if it is that a LOT of animals are subjected to inhumane conditions prior to their death. It's not something that's easily stopped without creating a bunch of other problems.

That's probably a fair point.

I still say that sending live cattle on ships is far worse. Let's at least kill them and then send them over. Subjecting animals to that much suffering can't be right.

Japan annually hunts:

http://iwc.int/table_permit
Fin whales (Endangered)
Sei whales (Endangered)
Sperm whales (Vulnerable)
Bryde's whales (Data Deficient)

Common Minke whales (Least Concern) -- However, certain stocks like the J-stock are threatened. In a recent DNA study up to 46% of the meat sampled was from the threatened J-stock.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/47727/description/Protected_whales_found_in_Japans_supermarkets



Antarctic Minke whales (Data Deficient) -- the IUCN has data showing this species has declined as much as 60% in the last three generations which would classify it as 'endangered'.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2480/0




And of course, that's not including the annual coastal slaughter of small cetaceans like dolphins including rare beaked whales and a Dall's porpoise slaughter called 'clearly unsustainable' by the IWC scientific committee.

There is nothing 'misleading' about it. This is the reality of Japan's whale poaching.

I'm not sure there's a "humane" way to kill an animal the size of a bus.

It'd be pretty hard to farm them...:lol: :lol: But we eat fish which is caught in the sea.

I am concerned about the harpooning bit, if that's true, it's a very inhumane way to kill an animal.

If the Japanese only catch the whales that in plentiful supply then I am OK with it. I doubt they would destroy their "crops', they're smarter than that.

Back to cattle, we should be careful about pointing fingers, as the live animal export trade that we engage in is appalling. Animals suffer and die onboard - I would argue that's a far bigger problem that the whale thing.

I think we are pretty quick to point fingers but refuse to take a good look at ourselves on occasions.

If they wanted to farm whales for that purpose then why the fuck not? Except that it's completely impractical, and probably unsustainable.

The IUCN review indicates that the J-stock declined by more than 50% in the past from intensive whaling by China, Taiwan, the Republic of Korea, and Japan. (Taiwan banned whaling in 1981). O-stock is also thought to be low but it is less depleted than J-stock. Japan continues to hunt North Pacific Minke whales, taking at least 100 per year under a national permit for scientific research (IUCN). Minke whales are also taken annually as a fishery bycatch in South Korean and Japanese waters. Minke whales sold in Japanese markets are mostly from J-stock (Dalebout et al. 2002). There is concern for the stock’s long-term survival (Baker et al. 2000).
http://www.pwlf.org/minkewhale/conservation.htm
I cba checking those studies but I'm sure someone as interested as you can.

Cattle are knocked out instantly with bolt guns and whales are harpooned multiple times.

I don't know a great deal about the subject, but if whales are plentiful then what's the problem with whaling so long as it's done sustainably?

If it's sustainable it becomes no different to killing and eating cows and the rest is just alarmist propaganda.

If it's unsustainable then it's a different issue entirely.

Whatever.

I don't remember when was the last time I had whale meat, seriously.
It depends on how you cook.

Asking them would be solution.
[youtube]DR_9A3NpfCQ[/youtube]

Interesting, quite interesting.
These kind of people in footage can be found in any society, but it is not ordinary at all if this kind of characteristics became collective one.

[youtube]VWAJd_rk-Ys[/youtube]

Edited by Viper 0: 9/2/2013 06:53:58 午後

I was told it tastes like a combination of beef and tuna. I'd totally chow down on some if given the chance. But that's not saying I condone the continued hunt of it.

At least they are honest...

Oh, one more thing.

Korean 'By-catch' whale industry hunt any whales indiscriminately without any regulation in place. They hunt more than Japan does probably and they just 'by-catch'any whales out there.

Does whale taste good, Viper? I've always been curious to try.

Below is the list of subjected whales by Japan and IUCN findings.

Balaenoptera acutorostrata(Minke)
Hunted avg. 105/annual for past 5 years)
Least Concern
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2474/0

Megaptera novaeangliae(Humpback)
Hunted 10/annual for last 5 years, none for last 2 years
Least Concern
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/13006/0

Balaenoptera physalus(Fin)
Hunted for avg 10/annul for last 5 years, 10 for last 2 years
Endangered
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2478/0

You better look at what you have insisted.
Misleading, lie and childish theory won't save your face.
You should go back to the priciple of conservation.
There is no point in coserving abundant. Grow up.




Edited by Viper 0: 8/2/2013 11:05:47 午後

As previously mentioned, Japan does not only hunt minke whales and there is no scientifically accepted biological optimum for any whale population. In fact, DNA studies suggest the damage done by commercial whaling is worse than previously thought.

Japan annually kills endangered fin whales, endangered sei whales, vulnerable sperm whales, rare Bryde's whales, common minke whales (many from the threatened J-stock), and Antarctic minke whales (the IUCN has data which suggests this species could also be 'endangered'). Not to mention up to 20,000 dolphins including rare beaked whales and a Dall's porpoise hunt called 'clearly unsustainable' by the IWC scientific committee.

The ratings given to various stocks and species of whales by the IUCN also take into consideration whether the survival of the animal is impacted by human exploitation. If humpback whales were being hunted on an industrial scale (after nearly being wiped out by a century of modern commercial whaling) the evaluation would change.

Here is a partial list compiled by the IUCN...
Blue Whale: Endangered (EN)
Antarctic Blue Whale: Critically Endangered (CR)
North Atlantic Blue Whale: Vulnerable (VU)
Fin Whale: Endangered (EN)
Chile-Peru Right Whale: Critically Endangered (CR)
North Atlantic Right Whale: Endangered (EN)
North Pacific Right Whale: Endangered (EN)
Northeast Pacific Right Whale: Critically Endangered (CR)
Sei Whale: Endangered (EN)
Sperm Whale: Vulnerable (VU)
Okhotsk Sea Bowhead Whale: Endangered (EN)
Svaalbard-Barents Sea Bowhead Whale: Critically Endangered (CR)
Arabian Sea Humpback Whale: Endangered (EN)
Oceania Humpback Whale: Endangered (EN)
Northwest Pacific Gray Whale: Critically Endangered (CR)


And of course, there is no humane way to kill a mammal the size of a city bus regardless of 'abundance'...

Edited by animux: 8/2/2013 04:14:16 AM

Ha,ha, ha.
I wouldn't try and I wouldn't mind if you have it since those are insanely abundant in Australia.

Flies are really friendly to people in Austraia.
Lucky you.

Actuary, Mikies are quite abundant.
Even Humpbacks are not endangered, if my memory is correct.

Below is link to IUCN.
Only Sea Shpeherd and Australian media don't like undeniable truth.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/amazing-species

That's pretty flawed reasoning. Flies are abundant too, but I don't see you eating them.

It is -actually- true that demand is declining.

According to Jun Morikawa, outside of isolated coastal communities whale meat was only a substitute in Japan during post WWII food shortages. The government included whale in compulsory school lunches.

As the Japanese economy recovered and families could purchase other meats the demand for whale declined significantly (and has declined consistently since the 1970s). In fact it was removed from school menus for many years... until recently reintroduced as a means to justify spending even more tax dollars on whaling.

Today, only a tiny fraction of the Japanese population eats whale. If whale meat was not served to children in school lunches the fact is most of them would never know the taste of whale. In fact, last year the ICR was unable to sell 75% of the meat from the annual hunts at auction.

Sometimes proponents of whaling would like everybody to believe the only whale hunted by Japan is the supposedly 'abundant' minke whale...

Japan annually kills endangered fin whales, endangered sei whales, vulnerable sperm whales, rare Bryde's whales, common minke whales in the North Pacific (many from the vulnerable J-stock), and Antarctic minke whales in the Southern Ocean (a species also in decline). Not to mention up to 20,000 small cetaceans like dolphins -- including some rare beaked whales and a Dall's porpoise hunt that has been called 'clearly unsustainable' by the IWC scientific committee.

About J-stock minke whales in the North Pacific:
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/47727/description/Protected_whales_found_in_Japans_supermarkets




About Antarctic minke whales in the Southern Ocean:
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2480/0



Edited by animux: 7/2/2013 01:04:19 AM

They're not abundant.

I don't care.
I just don't like hypocrits saying 'We should conserve abundant species' with tons of lies.


Edited by Viper 0: 7/2/2013 12:25:04 午前

It is probably true that demand is declining.
At the same time, minke whales are so prosperous and abundant.
I don't see any sensible reasons to 'conserve' abundant species.

Priciples we have agreed have turned into money raising scheme for self proclaiming 'green' NPOs addicted to raising money and having beef. Bandwagoned by pressure groups and those who believes in everything TV says.

Edited by Viper 0: 7/2/2013 12:18:42 午前

Since this thread began with a comment about international law the following should be noted.

According to Article 65 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea:

"States shall cooperate with a view to the conservation of marine mammals and in the case of cetaceans shall in particular work through the appropriate international organizations for their conservation, management and study."

In this case, the appropriate international organization is the International Whaling Commission.

That's the same IWC that set all commercial whaling quotas to zero starting in the 1985/86 season...

The same IWC that established protections for most whale stocks prior to the moratorium.

The same IWC that established the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in 1994.

The same IWC which has repeatedly called upon Japan to stop killing whales.

For example, IWC Resolution 2007-1:

Though it is true that hardly anyone in Japan actually eats whale meat these days...

Professor Jun Morikawa, in his book "Whaling in Japan: Power, Politics, and Diplomacy", explains that Japan's whaling continues due to the influence of corrupt bureaucrats who ensure tax subsidized funding in the fisheries budget for whaling only to leave public office and take high paid jobs in the commercial whaling industry.

This type of corruption is so common in Japan's government they have a word for it: 'amakudari'.

=d>

This is a legitimate round of applause for Viper.
I don't like whaling, I don't like the justification for it. But I loathe Sea Shepard, I loathe the approach towards them in the media. Both Paul Watson and half of Australia lack even a basic grasp of International law, and above all, a failure to grasp the Japanese mentality. I would wager that without Sea Shepard, Japanese whaling would have ceased years ago. Even with a full quota, the operation is bleeding money, it is government subsidised after all. The only thing that is keeping Japan in it is pride. No one in Japan even likes whale meat, there is no demand, sale of it is limited to a view specialist markets in Tokyo, that is it.

But if a Japanese government of the day is seen to be ceasing operations not because it is a waste of public funds, but because they are bowing down to some poncy western nations because their feelings have been hurt, they would be ridiculed across the nation. Greenpeace for one realised this years ago and switched its efforts to educating the Japanese on the wasting of public funds that is occurring in the name of whaling, but I fear this support is constantly being counteracted by Sea Sheppard's operations that constantly provoke Japanese nationalism and pride on the issue.

Japan makes all sorts of claims to promote its whale poaching operations.

For example, Japan claims minke whales were eating too many fish and stunting the recovery of other whales -- debunked by science.

Japan also claims that using modern industrial whaling methods adopted from Norway (including Norwegian made ships and actual Norwegian whalers) -- in order to mass produce whale oil for sale to western countries for lamp fuel and margarine -- is actually a 'Japanese tradition' -- debunked by history.

But when it comes to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary Japan claims there was no scientific basis for its creation -- while simultaneously abusing Article VIII of the ICRW (the research loophole) in order to purposely defy restrictions established under Article V of the ICRW. Part of Japan's argument against the sanctuary was the fact that just about every species of whale was already protected by previous IWC decisions -- including the 1986 moratorium on commercial whaling and a ban on using factory ships.

By the way, Japan was the only nation in the IWC to vote against the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in 1994...

Since this is merely a platform for 'opinion' I'd like to contribute a scientific opinion from an expert on the subject.

Dr. Sidney Holt, renowned marine biologist and member of the IWC scientific committee for many years, helped bring about the moratorium and the whale sanctuaries established by the IWC.

This is what he had to say about the IWC and the Southern Ocean in a public statement:



The species that Japan primarily kills in the Southern Ocean is the Antarctic minke whale.

This species is listed as "data deficient" by the IUCN. However, the IUCN also has data that suggest the Antarctic minke whale population may have declined by as much as 60% in the last three generations -- which would classify the species as 'endangered' if confirmed.

Think there is no scientific basis for a whale sanctuary in the Southern Ocean?

Please tell me again what happened to whales around Antarctica in the 20th century...