What are the Greatest/Most Important Battle's in History, and why?


What are the Greatest/Most Important Battle's in History, and why?

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Second World War clashes named as 'Greatest British Battle'

By Jasper Copping7:52PM BST 20 Apr 2013

The two victories over the Japanese, which took place in the same region of north east India over the same period in 1944, were voted the winner of a contest run by the National Army Museum to identify “Britain’s Greatest Battle”.

Taken as a single victory, Imphal-Kohima was on a shortlist of five battles which topped a public poll and on Saturday, they were selected as the ultimate winner by an audience of more than 100 guests at a special event at the museum, in Chelsea, west London. Imphal-Kohima received almost half of all votes.

In second place was D-Day and Normandy, in 1944 (25 per cent), ahead of Waterloo, in 1815, (22 per cent), Rorke’s Drift, during the Zulu War in 1879 (three per cent), and Aliwal, during the First Sikh War in 1846 (two per cent).

At the event, each contender had their case made by a historian giving a 40 minute presentation. The audience, who had paid to attend the day, then voted in a secret ballot after all five presentations had been made.

The case for Imphal and Kohima was made by Dr Robert Lyman, an author and Fellow of the Royal Historical Society.

“I had thought that one of the bigger names like D-Day or Waterloo would win so I am delighted that Imphal-Kohima has won. You have got to judge the greatness of a battle by its politcal, cultural and social impact, as much as its military impact.

“Imphal and Kohima were really significant for a number of reasons, not least that they showed that the Japanese were not invincible and that that they could be beaten, and beaten well. The victories demonstrate this more than the US in the Pacific, where they were taking them on garrison by garrison.”
The contest aimed to gauge the battles in terms of their historical impact and the tactics employed.
The battles of Imphal and Kohima saw the British and Indian forces, under the overall command of Lieutenant-General William Slim, repel the Japanese invasion of India and helped turned the tide of the war in the Far East.
Some veterans of the battles and historians have felt the victories have since been overlooked, partly because the invasion of Europe, starting with D-Day, took place while they were still being fought.
The fight for Imphal went on longer than that for Kohima, lasting from March until July.
Kohima was smaller in scale, and shorter, from April to June - but the fighting was so intense it has been described as the Stalingrad of the East.
In one sector, only the width of the town’s tennis court separated the two sides. When on 18 April the relief forces of the British 2nd Division arrived, the defensive perimeter was reduced to a shell-shattered area only 350 metres square.
The Japanese, who fought alongside some Indian nationalists, eventually lost 53,000 dead and missing in the battles. The British forces sustained 12,500 casualties at Imphal while the fighting at Kohima cost them another 4,000 casualties.
There are several memorials to the British and Indian troops who fought in the area, including one with an inscription that has become famous as the ‘Kohima Epitaph’. It reads: “When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say, For Your Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today’
After their defensive victory, the British went on to clear the Japanese from Burma.
The format for the contest - an online poll followed by a closed vote - was devised by the National Army Museum to avoid orchestrated bloc voting, reducing the risk that a battle could win simply thanks to an organised campaign by a specific part of the community or a national group.
A similar contest, held by the museum last year, to identify Britain’s “greatest foe”, saw a surge of online support for Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, after it was featured on a Turkish website.
The Turkish leader topped the first poll, before the contest was eventually won, after the debate stage, by George Washington.
Imphal and Kohima came fifth in the online vote, which was topped by Waterloo.
All 20 battles on the original shortlist were from the period covered by the museum’s collection – going back to the origins of the professional army in the Civil War, which laid the foundations for the modern British Army.
The earliest battle on the list was from that conflict: the clash at Naseby, in 1645, in which the Royalists were defeated by the Parliamentarians’ disciplined New Model Army.
It was one of two that took place on British soil between two armies from this country. The other was Culloden (1746), which marked the end of the Jacobite rebellion.
As well as famous battles, the list includes some less well-known clashes, such as Megiddo in 1918, in modern-day Israel, where a British-led force decisively broke through the Ottoman front lines.
Not all the battles ended in victory. The list included the failed Gallipoli campaign (1915-1916), in which Britain and its allies tried to invade the Ottoman Empire.
Others are less conclusive, such as the Crimean clash of Balaklava (1854) – noted for the disastrous Charge of the Light Brigade – and the Somme (1916).
The most recent engagement was Musa Qala, in Afghanistan, where, in 2006, a small garrison of British, Danish and Afghan troops withstood a lengthy Taliban siege.
Only land battles were considered, ruling out naval victories such as Trafalgar (1805) and air campaigns such as the Battle of Britain (1940).
The other battles on the list were: Blenheim (1704), during the War of the Spanish Succession; Plassey (1757) and Quebec (1759), both during the Seven Years War; Lexington (1775), during the American War of Independence; Salamanca (1802), during the Napoleonic Wars; El Alamein (1942) during the Second World War; Imjin River (1951), during the Korean War; Goose Green (1982), during the Falklands War.

   
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/10008053/Second-World-War-clashes-named-as-Greatest-British-Battle.html
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The Battle of Everton Valley.
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Battle of Ain Jalut - 1st time the Mongols had been completely beaten in battle and was part of stopping their march east in the Mediterranean.
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Australian perspective

New Guinea WII
El Alamein
Tobruk
Gallipoli
Eureka Stockade
Villers–Bretonneux

Edited by Joffa: 21/4/2013 12:31:54 PM
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Helm's Deep.
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Battle of Tsushima, 1905.
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catbert wrote:
Battle of Tsushima, 1905.



In London in 1906, Sir George Sydenham Clarke wrote, "The battle of Tsu-shima is by far the greatest and the most important naval event since Trafalgar."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima

Edited by Joffa: 21/4/2013 12:44:58 PM
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The Mongol sacking of Baghdad. Set the human race back centuries.
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Funky Munky wrote:
Helm's Deep.

Pealanor Fields before the undead show up.

Blackwater was pretty damn awesome as well.
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Stalingrad.


/thread.

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

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Battle of Hastings, end of story.

Though, notable mentions:

Napoleonic War
Crimean War
Stalingrad *William Wallace Scottish Legendddd*
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Australia:

New guinea campaign - Saved Australia from a japanese invasion.

Britian:

Battle of Brunanburh - A combined alliance of Scots, Britons and Vikings stopped West Saxons(England) from taking over the whole isles.

Battle of Hastings - Normandy took control of Britian and would create the Angevin Empire which lead to hundreds of years of conflict with the Kingdom of France.

Defeat of the Spanish Amarda - England remained Protestant as was the start of the downfall of Spain and the rise of Great Britian

Siege of Yorktown - The defeat of Cornwalis, the start of the most powerful nation today.

Battle of Waterloo - Defeat of Napoleon who at one point had control of much of Europe

Battle of Britian - Halted any German invasion of Britian

World war 2

El alamein - First Major battle the Axis lost, stopped Germany from reaching vital oil supplies.

Battle of Malta - Malta was the lifeline of Allies in North Africa.

Battle of Stalingrad - Halted German advance in eastern europe

Battle of Kursk - Germans lost all initiative after this, site of the largest tank battles in History and the battle that truly lost Germany the war.

Battle of Midway - Japan lost 4 aircraft carriers.

Others

Battle of Marathon - united greek city states defeated the superpower of its day the persian empire, would the west exist today?

Battle of Zama - Carthage defeated by Rome.

Conquest of Mecca - Muslims would defeat there biggest adversaries and take control of Arabia, the islamic Caliphates would expand to eventually rule from Spain to Pakistan.

Siege of Constantinople- final defeat of the byzantines, christianity lost its greatest city and foothold in the area.

Siege of Baghdad- This marked the end of the Islamic Golden Age at the hand of the mongols, as Notorganic said this set the world back centuries.

Siege of Vienna - Ottoman expansion in europe halted.



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Battle of Istanbul, 2005
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Wasps v Bees.
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- Anglo-Zanzbibar War
- Great Emu War
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Aussie4ever4 wrote:
Australia:

New guinea campaign - Saved Australia from a japanese invasion.


Are you for real? the PNG campaign was the most boring, uneventful and overall easy (by that i dont mean easy for the soldiers as those mountain jungles are the toughest fighting environment on the planet; I mean ease of the ultimate victory which was never in doubt) campaign we have ever fought. Initially the japs pushed us back because we had all our shit over fighting the real enemy and didn't give a fuck so all we had was shitty militia conscripts; as soon as the AIF got back the japs were fucking steamrolled. By mid 1942 Japanese troops there and everywhere else in the Pacific were starving and running low on everything; soon they were resorting to cannibalism. They were braver than anyone but ultimately not much of an opponent.

Also no one "saved" Australia; the Japs never intended to invade Australia because they realised in the planning stages such an invasion would be quite impossible with available resources. Shit by early 42, the earliest they could have invaded, we had a whole freaking armoured division fitted out with m3 grants ready and waiting to take them on; basically tiger tanks compared to the cardboard box tanks Japan was using. They had no chance.



So hows about some real Aussie battles?

Villers-Bretonneux, where Australian troops stopped the the German's massive 1918 offensive at the crucial point and then counter-attacked a greatly superior foe, in "perhaps the greatest individual feat of the war":

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-04-25/villers-bretonneux-remembers-decisive-battle-90/2415632
http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/1918/battles/dernancourt.asp


Hamel, the "perfect battle" or "textbook battle", which became basically blueprint/example for Allied commanders to follow for the rest of the war, and for which Monash (guy with the sick moustache on the 100 dollar note you plebs) was friggin knighted on the field by the King for (first guy to be knighted on the field in 200 years), and for which the French President dropped everything and instantly went to congratulate the Australian troops personally for, choking up as he said to them:

Quote:
When the Australians came to France, the French people expected a great deal from you because they had heard what you have accomplished in the development of your own country. We knew that you would fight a real fight, but we did not know that from the very beginning you would astonish the whole continent. I shall go back tomorrow and say to my countrymen: ‘I have seen the Australians. I have looked in their faces. I know that these men will fight alongside of us again’


http://www.greatwar.co.uk/somme/memorial-le-hamel.htm
http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/1918/battles/hamel.asp
http://www.ww1westernfront.gov.au/battlefields/hamel-1918.html


Or maybe Amiens, the "black day of the German Army":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Amiens_(1918)
http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/1918/battles/amiens.asp


Or hows about Mont St Quentin, "sometimes regarded as the finest achievement of the AIF"?

http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/1918/battles/mtstquentin.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Saint-Quentin_Australian_war_memorial


Or breaking the bloody Hindenburg line (often having to take charge of clueless American troops personally as they continually fucked up):

http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/1918/battles/hindenburg.asp



That's just WW1. I haven't gone into the crazy shit from other wars like El Alamein (which was in fact primarily an infantry battle, Australians playing the most important part), Tobruk, Syria-Lebbo campaign, Muar, Maryang Sang, Binh Ba, etc etc etc...
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It just rages me because Australia never had a "we fought off the dreaded invaders" story and we've never needed one, yet some idiots for various reasons decided we had to have this trope in our national myth and made it so. The major reason is that all the other insane shit done in combat by Australians is too hardcore/imperialist/british/whatever to be PC enough for certain traitors of Australia whom we shall not name, but of course a "defence against outside aggressors" is something even the most PC of PCers that ever P'd and C'd can at least tolerate.

This is why Australia's war history as taught in schools etc has basically become Kokoda and Gallipoli (the latter of course utilised by those who hate Australia to show how very bad war is, how very bad Britain and the Empire was, and to play off WW1 generally as just a big clash of imperialism in which everyone was as bad as everyone else.
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Hoff wrote:
Aussie4ever4 wrote:
Australia:

New guinea campaign - Saved Australia from a japanese invasion.


Are you for real? the PNG campaign was the most boring, uneventful and overall easy (by that i dont mean easy for the soldiers as those mountain jungles are the toughest fighting environment on the planet; I mean ease of the ultimate victory which was never in doubt) campaign we have ever fought. Initially the japs pushed us back because we had all our shit over fighting the real enemy and didn't give a fuck so all we had was shitty militia conscripts; as soon as the AIF got back the japs were fucking steamrolled. By mid 1942 Japanese troops there and everywhere else in the Pacific were starving and running low on everything; soon they were resorting to cannibalism. They were braver than anyone but ultimately not much of an opponent.

Also no one "saved" Australia; the Japs never intended to invade Australia because they realised in the planning stages such an invasion would be quite impossible with available resources. Shit by early 42, the earliest they could have invaded, we had a whole freaking armoured division fitted out with m3 grants ready and waiting to take them on; basically tiger tanks compared to the cardboard box tanks Japan was using. They had no chance



At the time Australia was very much under the THREAT of invasion, the allies got there arses kicked in the Pacific, singapore was gone, Malaya fell, phillipines fell, a proposal to invade Australia had already been made, maybe saved was the wrong choice of words but if Japan defeated us in Papua, an invasion of Australia or at least further isolation was very possible.

Its probably worth noting at the time New Guinea was an Australian territory, what other time did a war take place on Australian territory, Aboriginal battles?? so yeah i consider it quite significant compared to battles that took place on the other side of the world far away from our doorstep.



So hows about some real Aussie battles?

That's nice these all contributed to helping our allies on the other side of the world.



Edited by aussie4ever4: 21/4/2013 10:15:43 PM

Edited by aussie4ever4: 21/4/2013 10:20:40 PM
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Heineken wrote:
Stalingrad.


/thread.
Beat me to it.
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pv4 wrote:
mariokart64 block fort


Holy shit yes!
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Farrand93 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
mariokart64 block fort


Holy shit yes!


double deck is also up there.

donut & skyscraper can gtfo
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Aussie4ever4 wrote:

At the time Australia was very much under the THREAT of invasion, the allies got there arses kicked in the Pacific, singapore was gone, Malaya fell, phillipines fell, a proposal to invade Australia had already been made, maybe saved was the wrong choice of words but if Japan defeated us in Papua, an invasion of Australia or at least further isolation was very possible.

Its probably worth noting at the time New Guinea was an Australian territory, what other time did a war take place on Australian territory, Aboriginal battles?? so yeah i consider it quite significant compared to battles that took place on the other side of the world far away from our doorstep.


go and read some history books you dud. Japs were never planning to invade Australia, and the only time the army even remotely considered it a threat was in the first couple of months of 42, after which everyone breathed easy.

Germany winning WW2 and especially WW1 WAS however a real threat to Australia and our national sovereignty; PNG was originally German clay we got from them as loot after WW1, although I don't expect history illiterates and Australia-haters such as yourself to know that. If the Germans had won WW1 (which was a distinct possibility even in 1918, in which Australia played a critical role stopping as i mentioned before) then they woulda been knocking on our doorstep quicker than you could say Schnitzelburgen, and the very kindest we could've expected would've been forced German immigration and removal of our overseas markets; at worst, well maybe you should read up on what the meglomaniacs running Deutschland during this period had planned for their enemies when they won the war.

Seriously go read your own country's history for once in your life; you can name a zillion other lame battles from other countries but you probably couldn't even name our first battle of WW2
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Hoff wrote:
Aussie4ever4 wrote:

At the time Australia was very much under the THREAT of invasion, the allies got there arses kicked in the Pacific, singapore was gone, Malaya fell, phillipines fell, a proposal to invade Australia had already been made, maybe saved was the wrong choice of words but if Japan defeated us in Papua, an invasion of Australia or at least further isolation was very possible.

Its probably worth noting at the time New Guinea was an Australian territory, what other time did a war take place on Australian territory, Aboriginal battles?? so yeah i consider it quite significant compared to battles that took place on the other side of the world far away from our doorstep.


go and read some history books you dud. Japs were never planning to invade Australia, and the only time the army even remotely considered it a threat was in the first couple of months of 42, after which everyone breathed easy.

I never said they were planning an invasion i said they proposed an invasion. I'm glad you admit the japs were a threat:roll:

Germany winning WW2 and especially WW1 WAS however a real threat to Australia and our national sovereignty; PNG was originally German clay we got from them as loot after WW1, although I don't expect history illiterates and Australia-haters such as yourself to know that. If the Germans had won WW1 (which was a distinct possibility even in 1918, in which Australia played a critical role stopping as i mentioned before) then they woulda been knocking on our doorstep quicker than you could say Schnitzelburgen, and the very kindest we could've expected would've been forced German immigration and removal of our overseas markets; at worst, well maybe you should read up on what the meglomaniacs running Deutschland during this period had planned for their enemies when they won the war.

Seriously go read your own country's history for once in your life; you can name a zillion other lame battles from other countries but you probably couldn't even name our first battle of WW2


Australia-hater :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that's pathetic.

Forced german migration please do explain, as far as im aware all the germans wanted from WW1 was a bunch of territorial concessions.

I posted a list of the most important battles IMO, not the greatest victories. Never was a battle fought so close to Australia on Australian territory with a very real and what could of been an imminent threat. No matter how much you go on about how we helped the allies in WW1 and WW2 there was no imminent danger on Australia or australian territory if we lost those battles, that is why i chose it, if you don't like that than debate it in a polite way or fuck off.

dud dud dud dud.

Edit: After reading your other forum posts i just realised you're troll, you got me good.

Edited by aussie4ever4: 22/4/2013 05:54:54 PM
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Hard to say. Toss up between:
notorganic & girt
notorganic & afro

Got to admire the former's efforts. Maybe he can open up another front.....
Glory Recruit
Glory Recruit
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ozboy wrote:
Hard to say. Toss up between:
notorganic & girt
notorganic & afro

Got to admire the former's efforts. Maybe he can open up another front.....


:lol:

Paulc vs Benjamin, Arthur, Paulbagz(Crobagz), and general Ashnak too i think.

But the best has to be Bitters vs Cheerleaders
notorganic
notorganic
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ozboy wrote:
Hard to say. Toss up between:
notorganic & girt
notorganic & afro

Got to admire the former's efforts. Maybe he can open up another front.....


notorganic & ozboy is sounding good for July.
Heineken
Heineken
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lukerobinho wrote:
Cronulla riots

REDFERN BRAHHHH!

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

afromanGT
afromanGT
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