Wage: $1.5M

Accolades: 2015 Asian Cup.

Teams beaten:

Bangaladesh
Tajikistan
Costa Rica
Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Oman
China
United Arab Emirates
South Korea (after extra time)
Krygyzstan
Japan x 2
Jordan
Greece

Lost to

Greece
Jordan
South Korea
Japan x 2
Ecuador
England
Croatia
Chile
Spain
Netherlands
Belgium
Brazil

Drawn against

Thailand
Macedonia
United Arab Emirates
South Africa
Germany
Iraq
Cameroon
Chile

My two cents:

Almost 3 years in and we still have headlines by Australian football writers about how the team impressed and gained respect against England (which we also had after the World Cup - despite it being statistically out worst ever performance at a World Cup).

Ange is in a tough spot as he does not have great players to choose from, but there is still a worrying lack of consistency with players at the back and after 3 years Australia still do not have a striker.

Overall looking at those results - the Asian Cup was obviously fantastic, but against mostly weak sides - it’s probably just a pass mark and what you’d expect, nothing more or less. The only worry is not really being able to beat any side that’s ranked higher than us, with the exception of South Korea after extra time.

Anyone else have thoughts on how the team is travelling or progressing under Ange?

Edited by tsf: 8/6/2016 08:44:54 AM

Re-do the list with friendlies removed and see how we go.

To be fair on Ange I'd only be looking at games post WC as he was put in a shit spot by Holger for the tournament which wasn't in his control.

Not including his slice of the stadium negotiation fees

How is Ange meant to fix that we "don't have a striker", if they're all shit?

You can only work with what you have, and I'd rather watch this team play the way we do than watch Verbeek style boredom with better players.

Dunno, that's why he gets 1.5m a year and I'm just commenting on an internet forum for $0 :d

As you said, Ange does not have a massive quality and glut of players coming through - this is not his area of responsibility either. In fact, I think he has done a remarkable job unearthing or persuading the Socceroos that were previously ignored or underappreciated by the previous management. Some players that Ange brought in that are now established within the first team setup are Sainsbury, Wright, Smith, Luongo and Mooy. His whole mantra has been to set the foundation for further success, that's how far behind the national team setup was the rest of the world. He has expanded the available pool of players, he has begun to stamp his foot down on Asian qualifying (something that could never be said about Verbeek or Osieck) and to top it off, he brought home our first piece of major silverware for the men's side. End of the day, we can only play what is in front of us - that's the nature of confederations, so the only time we get to play top nations in meaningful competition is at the World Cup or, as we will next year, at the Confederations Cup. Bemoaning our lack of success in friendly games is tiresome and utterly ridiculous without the context around them.

Ange has set about to change the culture surrounding the teams and to improve performances over time. It's been what, two years since he took over? We've already climbed back up the rankings, we've won the Asian Cup and we're playing a proactive style of football that is not only going to be successful in the long run, but is finally restoring some belief back into the Socceroos as world beaters. We've just had our number 1 keeper playing in La Liga last season, we've got a smattering of players in the Bundesliga and our captain is a club stalwart in the EPL - contrast this to what we had five years ago and already things have improved.

Ange has got until at least the World Cup in Russia for his contract, but barring an absolute horror show there he should have the job until Qatar 2022 - that's a generation or two of players playing at a World Cup in 'our own backyard'. Nobody will know how to play in the desert better than the AFC teams, and we should be looking to exploit that.

@walnuts

All fair comments, I also not suggesting his job is in trouble, just a little bit of evaluation for how we are going. But as you point out, perhaps we are on the right track.

no there not.....Ange doesn't play friendly well.....he use far to many fucking players , and wants to create unusual situations
in those games......the official game that matter, Australia (coach by Ange) win or loses at a better then expected

by definition, Australia should lose every fucking time it plays a higher rank team, the fact this doesn't happen is down to random nature of the football scoring system

Shrinking talent pool coming through is a bigger issue for Australian football.

I feel like we have to temper our expectations is all - there is no way we could expect him to turn around decades of neglect by late NSL/A-League clubs and their youth development overnight. Kids who have been through the SAP program completely are starting to hit 15/16 years of age, so should be turning out for A-League sides accordingly in the next few years. Might be too early for Russia in 2018 but by the time Qatar 2022 rolls around he should have a great bedrock of players fully trained under the 'allegedly' superior SAP program from which to call upon. Only then can we make an appropriate analysis of his success or failings.

It isnt ange fault we dont have good defenders or strikers he cant all of a sudden make quality players but what he has done is completely change the way we play and arguably has made average players better. We just have not produced any real qaulity defenders or strikers and once again that's not ange fault he can only coach with what he has and what we have is nowhere near what the golden gen was.

I think Ange has done a fantastic job in 3 years have love the way we are playing we just need some qaulity players

You either have a lot of faith or you're being facetious.

Another point to note: I used to literally fall asleep during Socceroos games under Pim and Holger. Waking up at 2:00am to watch us grind out a 1-0 win against Asian minnows with 6 CBs in our side is boring af and takes all the enjoyment out of supporting football.

I haven't had that problem since Ange took over.

Hedging my bets - we've been told for a while that it's a supposedly superior training program, and I did see quite good signs from the U17 side at their last world cup, but of course the proof will be in the pudding. The benchmark will not only be Socceroos performances, but also percentage of Australian players who play regularly in top Euro leagues.

ange has us punching above our weight, developing youth, promoting football and the a league and playing good looking football

not his fault that our weight is an anorexic midget. But he deserves all the credit in the world for making us punch like a stocky midget.

The NC and SAP also deserve credit because it looks like our next generation will have the weight of a scrawny teenager

But until we have 2 divisions playing at least 32 games a year with academies at each club we won't consistently be a top 20 team on paper in the modern highly competitive professional world. We may have another golden gen from time to time but probably not more

Don't think its Ange's fault that Australia has failed to produce any strikers of quality

You honestly think the SAP kids are that good for 2022? :-s

The last part you have nailed it, we will never produce a strong talent pool that could compete with the world's top 20 or 10 teams with the current structures in place.

Right on the lack of depth is a growing concern into the future.

Hahahahahaha... my sides! This line is honestly fantastic. Our biggest trophy as a footballing nation ever, and it was "against mostly weak sides" and "it's just a pass mark". Wowzers, the level of entitlement by some is baffling.

The cold hard truth is that since Ange has come in we've seen the side play and achieve at the best level we've likely ever seen them. We're not just plodding about and occasionally having a good game, we're at the point where people genuinely complain that England are hitting on the counter attack. Ange tinkers in friendlies and is building towards something, and in the one instance since that World Cup (where we still left with our heads held high) that there was silverware on the table, we stood up and did it. We in no way should be calling winning the Asian Cup a pass mark, we're on a continent with Japan, Korea and Iran, three sides which all should and do fancy themselves as the strongest on the continent. We faced off against a UAE side playing out of their skin, with an attack lead by one of the most exciting players in Asia and still come out on top, despite "not having a striker".

Ange has come in with a hard job, of getting us to play the right way, develop what we have and build a side that can do it on the biggest stages, and by all metrics we can currently use, he's not just getting a pass mark, he's doing better than I thought would actually be possible at this point. The real litmus test from here though is the World Cup qualification campaign from this point, and the Confederations Cup in 2017. At this point though I'm impressed by his management.

How many high quality prfessional teams would croatia have in its football pyramid ?

Thought this thread was going to be about a club wanting to poach him... phew..

they have 10 in their first division and 12 in their second then they have a regional division much like the npl as the third division. They have good academy structures. They also benefit from their strong federation
also as a top 20 team croatia narrowly miss out being on average ranked 22nd. They also have had good coach education for longer than us
So they are actually a perfect example of where we can expect to be with 2 divisions of 12 teams, 24 academies and a good national curriculum with good coach education. In theory we would on average be a little bit better than them with our stronger economy and sporting culture

His immediate and realistic goal when taking over was to win the Asian Cup which he did.

His long term goal, I'm guessing is to get out of the group stage in Russia (obviously that means qualifying). We are on track to do that.

The use of the hyphens to break up this sentence indicates that I was referring to overall results and not the Asian Cup as being a pass mark, I also put the word 'fantastic' in there. And secondly, do you think that the sides in the Asian Cup Australia faced were not mostly weak?

As for entitlement, I never said preached we should be at any level. I think we are pretty much at it, however we could be jagging more results against better teams, but as others have pointed out we can only play who is in front of us.

I think a lot of fans expect us to be among the best in the world in this sport when we have poor infrastructure including a single division with fledgling academies and only 10 teams - 9 in the country with the average total player wage of each team around 3mil. We also have only recently implemented allegedly world class youth coaching

give australia 2 divisions with 12 teams each and an academy at each club and we will be a top 20 team.
At the moment our development is probably par with our infrastructure

croatia has about 7 teams (i'm being nice) before the other teams start hitting NPL level

For me, the key with Ange is that (a) we don't get hammered, which shows that he is organising his teams properly, and (b) he is willing to give younger players a chance, which shows he is thinking about the future rather than about covering his back.

The measures he is putting in place will benefit the national team in the long run, and that is ultimately all he has to worry about.

Croatian league, like all the Balkan leagues, is not the greatest - BUT - the number of teams, and the frequency of fixtures at youth and senior level, coupled with the lack of cash, means that youth gets every opportunity to progress and find it's level.

I just wanted to tip water on the notion you needed 50 professional teams and tens of million spent on academies etc. to be a successful football nation

yes, but it means more when that 18 year is starting in a team full of 27 year old , because that 18 year old help the team get more game wins over the replacement player

Edited by adrtho: 30/5/2016 05:23:49 PM