You idiot. You have doomed the Liberal's to losing the next election. The ETS is a shit weak piece of Legislation and needed to be defeated to regain any respect that the Liberal party has lost. So congratulations your attempts to become a pseudo Labour party will go down as dooming this country to selling its soul.

:lol:

As a white male below 50, I get shat upon from a great height no matter who is in power, but what the fuck is he thinking. Idiot.

He was never gonna win the next election anyway...no one self destructs better than the Libs in opposition...well maybe the Democrats post Kernot!

That was a pretty fricking huge implosion.

He did what was best

Sell out the jobs of thousands of people and cost the country hundreds of millions basically devastating our economy?

Nice to see the Liberal party imploding and veering wildly further to the right. When they fuck themselves up they make the Labor party look like a harmonious, streamlined organisation.

Can only hurt their chances in the coming years. I wish we had a credible opposition in this country at any stage. It's one crisis to another for opposition parties.

I hate Kevin.

The thing with the Libs is they got so used to being in Government for so long with Howard that they have forgotten how to be the opposition. They aren't in charge anymore but they still fucking act like it.

Turnbull should just resign and save himself a whole lot of embarrassment at the next election.

I'll run the Liberals. I have ideas. Im bored Go ahead and ask me something.

A monkey with nappy rash could do a more proficient job of running the oppositino party than Malcolm Turnbull.

They're doing what an opposition is supposed to do: whinge, bitch, snipe and keep the leadership merry-go-round spinning.

The Liberla party needs fresh blood. It worked for Rudd. All the 'main' Liberal party members are old hands and out of touch.

The Liberla party needs fresh blood. It worked for Rudd. All the 'main' Liberal party members are old hands and out of touch.

I'm not by any means a Liberals supporter, or sympathiser - in fact they have blatantly racist, self-serving policies - but we need a vaguely competent opposition for a healthy democracy. Which we didn't have for most of Howard's regime of terror, and we now lack again not long into Rudd's term.

I wouldn't call howards term a Reigeme of terror, but it would have kept things a lot more honest. That said, right now everything's fucked.

The one where we became the most powerful financially that we have ever been and created the best trade links?

You can't argue that his government didn't exacerbate an aristocratic society, Guest.

Why should the people who employ people not receive better treatment in terms of tax exemption though. If you save them 100k a year they will employ 2/3 extra people and the proof is in the pudding with the lowest unemployment rates in a long time coming under the Howard government. Plus he got us out of the financial mess Keating left us with.... why is it Labour governments always put us in debt?

That's not the point. The point is that under howard the schism between upper and lower class grew immensely due to undeservedly fat executive bonuses, poor management and unaccountable chairmen from your 'booming economy'.

It's not that a labour government puts us in debt, it's taht they suffer the effects of altering policies to support the promises they made to get elected, thus altering budgets already planned for by a liberal government.

Yet the average wage increased every year whilst Howard was in charge for low and middle income earners and there tax went down. Just because the rich became richer due to the avenues that the Howard government opened for people does not mean that Howard deserted low and middle income earners






Rudd and Swan's irresponsible spending in an attempt to buy votes has landed this country in unprecedented levels of debt. That quote misses things as well such as the cost of laptops for students and the money donated to unions since he got into power.

While also openly lying to the Australian public for the better part of a decade, decided not to build any infrastructure with the resources and money produced with the partnership with China, vilified asylum seekers and named them illegal immigrants when they're not breaking any laws, refused to apologise for the Stolen Generation, never ratyfied the Kyoto Protocol, vilified unions by introducing work choices?

Illegal immigrants - Entering any part of another country including its waters is illegal. They need to be properly processed as well for quarantine reasons. Illegal immigrants should be sent straight back to whence they came why should they be let in when the proper asylum seekers have to wait to be cleared back in there home land?

Stolen Generation - BIGGEST CROCK OF SHIT EVER! There was no "stolen generation" those kids were suffering from lack of care in the aboriginal communities, no education, lack of food and water. The government was saving these kids from suffering, malnutrition and no education. There intentions were good though they didn't go about it in the best possible way and made some mistakes. But why should we apologise for it. Remember Keating didn't apologise either. We didn't do anything wrong. If your parents hit someone elses car do you go and apologise to that person? No I didn't think so. The fact is that some kids suffered yes but generally they have ended up in a better place because of the education they got. Have you noticed that that generation of aboriginals are doing much more with themselves than the current and last generation who abuse substances at a higher rate than any other socio-economic group in Australia.

Infrastructure - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/labor-claims-credit-for-howard-work/story-e6frg6nf-1225791517809

Kyoto - 1. Global warming is a crock of shit left wing scientists are using to make money.

2. What has signing Kyoto done?

3. Howard's government brokered the Asia Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate which they managed to get the United States to sign.

4. We have very little effect on the worlds Carbon output. about 3% of every 30 mm put out by the world. Until China and the US do anything there is no point us doing anything.

5. Unions have a clear bias to Labour. They funded there campaign for gods sake. Work Choices had flaws yes but the new governments scheme has hurt the pockets of low and middle income earners. Take apprentices losing their government grants for example.

They're not illegal immigrants, they're asylum seekers. There is a difference.



So if these kids had been suffering from lack of care and malnutrition at the time of the Stolen Generation then obviously they had been having those same problems ever since they arrived in that area? Nothing had changed for many, many generations until the Europeans arrived and simply compared the two lifestyles and came to the conclusion that Aboriginal children were hard done by, which they clearly weren't. The whole situation was an example of self-righteousness and racism. There was nothing wrong with the Aboriginal way of life, if there were they would have died by the time of European arrival.

These children were taken away from their families, forced to convert to the stupidity of Chistianity, were raped, abused both physically and mentally, used as workers in unfair situations and were ostricised in the white communities they were placed in. The government didn't save them from anything, rather they put them in a situation to justify their 'weakness' to the 'mighty race of white peoples'

Who cares what Paul Keating said on the Stolen Generation, we're not talking about him. The topic is John Howard not Paul Keating.

I do agree that aboriginals have become equal members of society (as they should) and have excelled with their abilities. However there are only a select few, look at the drug and liquid abuse in some communities, did Howard try to help with any enthusiasm and purpose? No in fact the UN reported him because a policy was racist towards Aboriginals.




This article does raise some valid points but it fails to mention that Howard only 'concieved' the projects, he didn't build or act upon them, while Labour has.



Really, how do you explain the evidence that is just a Google search away? Every environmental scientist in the world knows global warming is happening and action must be taken. Already some effects are happening and millions of people and huge amounts of biodiversity are in trouble of being displaced. The truth - the Earth is heating up, we are causing it.



Shown the world and Australian community that we are united with other governments in fighting the threat of climate change/shift.



Whoop-de-do. Did he do anything with it or just sign it so he could wave it in our faces and say 'there you go stop complaining'



That's not the point, it's just the principle that we are serious in tackling it for the better of the nation and the people. If we do our best to reduce our carbon footprint it will send a message of urgency across all other developed nations to tackle the threat of climate change.


Unions have a clear bias to labour because the majority of unions were formed at places where most of the workers voted for labour and were in the area of lower/midle class. Also, historically the accepted social view over the years is that Labour is the working peoples party, the Liberals are the rich people's party.


NB:I don't want this to turn into a shit-flinging contest. A nice, reasoned argument would be best in this case. ;)
[size=2](Above statement may be hypocritical judging by my post)[/size]

Referencing The Australian is pointless. The Liberals fund part of the newspaper.

Just heard that Tony Abbott put his hand up for the arty leadership. If he wins, the liberals are fucked.

Edited by afromanGT: 29/11/2009 05:07:28 PM

I agree with you on illegal immigrants. As long everyone is processed and assylam seekers are allowed in.

My great grandmother was part of the stolen generation. She suffered horrendusly and was raped constantly. Saying Sorry was the least the government could do. And who does saying sorry hurt anyway?

Global warming has been proven by a number of scientists. While in the sceme of things we dont seem to polute much we do pollute a lot per head. We are really the guinea pigs in the fight against global warming. Its a policy for the long term, and we must embrace it.

Edited by imonfourfourtwo: 29/11/2009 08:19:46 PM

The politicians are in parliament only for their own self gratification. Pollies want to set records. They want to be the longest serving treasurer/pm/cabinet minister etc etc. They don't run the country. They are at the mercy of the bureaucrats and other foreign powers. Look at the liberals. To get attention they sometimes act more left than the Labr party.'

There is a historical saying.
In a dictatorship/communist regime you don't get the choice of who holds the gun to your head. In a democaracy you do. In either system, the majority of players are there to feather their own nest and massage their huge egos.

a democracy is there to represent the people. no political party truly represents the general australian, well not me anyway.

My take on the immigrants.

Let them in, we are all immigrants to the country at some point in our heritage, every single one of us. Why are we denying those who want the freedom to live in our beautiful country to enjoy what we have been doing for years.

Most of the boats are coming from Indonesia. So set up an immigration centre in Indonesia, most are living there anyway. Then we do not foster this "human trade" thing that is going around.

+∞