All I can say about that line is :oops: re watch their games and you will change your mind. When a team consistantly puts in tackles that are effectively foot and ankle stamps you cannot say they are not using dirty tactics. They also did a their fair share of diving.

Haha i feel exactly as you feel. They just keep repeating the same argument :P

beauty is subjective guys...

People forget that football evolves over time too. Everything gets faster, better and more skillful.

If you put Messi in a time machine a dropped him into the mid 70's he would stand out like Cruyff too. Players like this were way ahead of their time and set new standards.

Watching that clip of Holland v Uruguay from 1974 was fantastic, I hadn't seen it before. Bloody brilliant.

The above imo is very close to the mark well said....

To compare what football is now to what is was in the 70's or any other decade is bs I'm afraid.
Coachs tactics in this day and age is not to lose first win second imo....if it wasn't for some individual brilliance the game now is no risk hang onto the ball.
Hence why Spain have done so well recently for they have 11 on the pitch who can do that.
Maybe the current crop of young germans may change this in the future and we shall see.

Edited by M.L.: 15/7/2010 08:17:25 PM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... I consider what Germany did to us, Argentina and England to be far more beautiful then anything Spain dished up.

craig foster will be the next coach of spain - you read it here first

Its hard to play beautiful football when the opposition puts 10 men behind the ball for 85 minutes of the game, hoping to counter for the other 5 minutes. Thierry Henry said the same thing about France not being able to play against Greece in the Euro's in 2004, and this was a very talented French team. In spite of the negative opposition tactics, Spain did play some unbelievable football, controlled every match they played and ultimately became World Champions. What's not beautiful about that?

Glad to see this is still going round in circles...

Beautiful is an adjective that gets thrown around a lot and a lot of people define beauty differently...especially with women, I might find a woman beautiful and you might find her butt ugly. In my book, Spain play beautiful. If I were to coach a team I would encourage the possession game because that's what I love.

The football spain played wasn't really beautiful
They controlled the match. We're dominant, but it wasn't as beautiful as it has been in the past

Shots on goal

24/8 v Swiss
22/9 v Honduras
9/9 v Chile
19/9 v Portugal
16/9 v Paraguay
13/5 v Germany
19/13 v Netherlands


If you watched Spain at all bar the final...

Again :roll: Execution let them down.

I admit I did not watch much of Spain this World Cup but from what I saw, I can't call it total football. There was no player who I saw who wanted to take on a player one on one, like Cruyff did in the 1970s. It seemed like they just wanted to retain possesion until the opposition got slightly out of possition from a Spanish run down the middle.

I don't like the long ball game either but I refute many comments made by the media that Spain wanted to use the ball to win the match. If they wanted to win they would be going all out to score more than 1 goal per match!

Pardon me wrong choice of words should have written: " without a fit world class striker (Torres)"
David Villa is now a World class striker, he was more of an attacking wing player prior this tournament just like Iniesta, Pedro or even Henry was when he went to Arsenal

the way spain crowd the referee every single time he blows his whistle was definately not beautiful. other than that i have no real problems with the way they played in the tournament. it wasnt total football but it wasnt boring but i dont usually find any match boring.

[youtube][/youtube]

@4.00min mark is a typical way in which the Spanish play. How many times in the Swiss game did this same play result in Navas crossing it to no one.

If that is total football - it's almost identical to the way Spain play when given space (There were glimpses in this WC from Spain but no complete domination). Holland have more than a handful of chances missed in this game also. The Dutch play ahead of their time and Uruguay have no fucking idea what to do. In today's game information about teams and the way they play is a lot more available and the players are more professional and the pace is faster. Spain are capable of this I have seen it in Euro 2008 and other games.

Edited by leftrightout: 15/7/2010 12:07:21 PM

Yeah - without one less (Torres) world class striker.

David Villa not World class?

=d>

Let me just say - Spain did not achieve total football in this tournament. But they are the only team that capable of it.

Of coarse they ground out the results, I never denied that. I grind out 90 minutes every Sunday so I know what that feels like. I have played in games where my team has dominated everything bar the scoreboard, that's football and it's frustrating. But if a team converts their opportunity's suddenly they are dominated no matter what the stats say...#-o I played in a game on Sunday and we won 2-1 and we were not the dominate side we just executed our opportunity's better. In Spain's case they were they dominated all the stats and ground out all but 1 victory against mostly negative defensive tactics. IF they converted more of their 'shots on target' stat, their would be no issue. In the end they deserved to be world champions.

Spain played to win the tournament and they did, how could you say boring football when one side totally dominates the other without dirty tacticts, they were miles ahead of the opposition on ability and tactics, made the Germans look like school boys team, same German side that made Argentina, England and Australia look like part time sides.

Holland was helpless in the first 15 min of the finals than they changed the tactics to Italys 80 style kicking them of the park and almost won only for Roben to miss twice. To Spains credit they managed to win without a world class strikers, Torres had knee surgery before this WC.
Barcelona V Inter in Chanpions League final played like Spain but Inter with right counter attack tacticas and Melitos two goals won, something that Germany without Muller and Holland with Roben could not do.

Total football deffinetly not, best 2010 WC football yes

No I'm not Spanish or South American

Agree 100% with that.

Spain ground out results, just because they had a high possession stat does not mean their results werent a grind.

That was only shown to show what Spain are capable of when allowed space.

The only thing that frustrated me with Spain in this World Cup as a supporter was lack of execution in front of goal. The stats are pretty overwhelming in the amount of opportunity's Spain had compared with the other team.

Shots on goal

24/8 v Swiss
22/9 v Honduras
9/9 v Chile
19/9 v Portugal
16/9 v Paraguay
13/5 v Germany
19/13 v Netherlands


Now as frustrating as this aspect of their game was, if Spain, like Germany converted about two or three more of these chances each game you would all be creaming your pants about how beautiful Spain played. IMO Spain created the opportunities but lacked the killer blow. Their lead up to goal was brilliant considering the tactics they faced but it was not enough, only to cause the spectator to get extremely frustrated (believe me! The Swiss game and others where like masturbating with a cheese-grater, pain and pleasure at the same time!). Who knows, if Torres was in form it might have been a different story. Spain did their up-most best playing against boring tactics and won the World Cup doing so, which is a very, very good effort!

Lefty, we're not talking about what Spain did to Poland before the tournament, we're talking about Spain's performance IN the tournament.

I think leftrightout is actually Carl Barron.

Poll lacks "Nto by a long shot" option.

People talked about how they weren't allowed to play their 'natural game' by teams and were forced to play ugly football. But even against minnows like Honduras they tried to just run the ball over the line and were boring to watch.

If they were that good, they wouldn't have let teams dictate terms to them, they'd have taken control of the game and opened it up.

Round of 16, 1-0. Quarters, 1-0. Semi's 1-0. Final 1-0.

Not very beautiful to me.

No.

Watching Spain play football is like watching a teenager struggle with a girl's bra for an eternity before briefly getting to see her rack, just as the parents park in the driveway.

Edited by Bill Murray: 14/7/2010 08:33:17 PM

You obviously don't know what Total Football is.