Hi All,

I'm hoping that in time this forum and section can be a valuable place for amateur coaches to come and get/share ideas - ask advice and help other coaches.

As I said in my blog I'll be posting some of my session plans up so maybe this could be the place where other people can do likewise.

Let's kick off by finding out who's coaching and at what level and what qualifications you have.

I have my AFC C License and am coaching the Development Squad at the Sutherland Shire FA details of what that entails can be found here. This season I had 16 U12 boys and next season I will have 32 U10 boys which we are trialling at the moment. I am also looking at taking a team at U11/12 level at my local club.

My aim is to complete my AFC B License next year and I have to say my decision to take my coaching more seriously is the best thing I ever did....as I love every minute of it.

Over to you...

Cheers

Andy

I'm going to get back into coaching next year. I did a bit of it (and refereeing) out of high school but I feel like my skills are outdated.

Where do you get your proper coaching licenses? Every capital city?

I coached for the first time this season. I had a group of 9 year olds who I'm keen to coach again next year.

There are two pathways - community and advanced.

Community goes grass roots>junior>youth>senior

Advanced goes C>B>A>Pro

The community programs are all run by state federations/local associations and advanced programs are run centrally by FFA.

I'd start with dropping you local association/state fed a line and asking for their schedule of community courses.

Cheers

Andy

Coached my sisters AA2 side this season just past. Lost the first 3 games, came back to finish second but lost in the Grand Final qualifier in ET.

Got the bulk of the girls back for next year along with a few more acquisitions. Looking to at least make the GF.

i would love to get my coaching licenses .i dont want to do the community stuff though. i want to get the proper stuff.

im assuming i would have to contact the ffa for that?

Yes you can apply to take the advanced courses but they would expect you to either have the senior license already or have what they call "significant" playing experience.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/2009GameDev/default.aspx?s=community_coaching_news_news_item_new&id=26882 here's the page on the FFA site

so in other words, id need to do the community licenses before i could go any further.

pretty much.....however I don't think you need to do all of them...I think you can just do your senior license...although that would be up to your local federation/association

Fantastic section Andy expect me to be a pain and start a lot of threads haha.

I think there are so many issue in terms of coaching in Australia.

My biggest hate is the cost of coaching and doing courses in Australia.

I am a young coach who would give anything in the world to become an elite coach but it seems that unless you are an x players the pathway is expenisve, long and very difficult.

The costs of coaching licences are exorbitant.

It has cost me $1600 for one community and one advanced course. Living where I do it costs much more for accommodation and air fares to the courses.

I received an $800 discount as I had a relative residing close to the AIS in Canberra. I stayed at the relative's house for the course duration.

It is cheaper to the Asian Confed Licences in Singapore. Some contend there is cronyism too and a clique. That is another reason for some going offshore. They think there is a conspiracy against them passing.

If I do another one I think it may be in the Netherlands.

Hi Andy, Good topic and some nice posts by people interested in coaching. I'm really looking forward to reading this topic in the future. I note your playing for your local over 35's. This is a really good thing to do as you get to have a beer and chat with other experienced players/coaches and pool knowledge between yourselves. Brainstorming with others who are very experienced is a real eye opener and gets you thinking from all different aspects.

I'm an ex-state league player (now close to 50) and have some pretty impressive medals in my trophy cabinet including state league premiers medals and Champions of Champions medals. I was also asked to go to Argentina as a youth and play over there but my heart would bleed green and gold only (which turned out to be a big mistake) because my parents were Aussies also.

Anyways I retired at 21 because back in those days a job paid 10 times more than playing and at 21 providing a sound financial future for my family took precedence. All history now.

Every time I would take my lad to a club I would try to keep quiet about my past playing experience but whenever I would chat with people about techniques, drills, skills yada yada I would always find myself being roped into coaching. I really hate seeing coaches with no idea teaching kids the wrong way to play. I really love football but the politics within drives me crazy. I got roped into playing over 35's in the local granville comp which i'm glad I did. I learnt more about technique, skills, drills and coaching from fellow players and coaches who also coach at NSW level, ex-socceroos (2 captains, one the most capped socceroo ever) and many ex-nsl players, many ex-state players and coaches. What I learned from them was gold.

I havent coached much in the last 6 years because politics (the natural enemy of coaches) works against what coaches try to achieve and thats taking the best players and making them better. I have never sat for a coaches licence ever because at our local association I've forgotten more than the people who get paid to train coaches.

In the last 2 years i've taken part in assist coaching 2 teams who never finished higher than 3rd or 4th and turned them into div 1 winning teams and both made quarters of the C of C's. Not bad for a person that has never even gained a coaches licence.

My questions to you are,

1. How does obtaining coaching licences compare to very experienced high level old players as coaches?
2. And why would players who have played the game at a very high level want to head down to the local bozo community coaches clinic when their knowledge levels are so low?
3. Are the theorists who give these coaching clinics better than gaining knowledge from those with many years playing experience at high levels? If so is the paper worth it?

Best wishes.

oops double post.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 19/10/2010 11:44:07 AM

Not sure if anyone can answer this for me.

Can you get your community coaching liscenses subsidised by a local club?

I know that my local cricket club covers the cost of your level 1 certificate if you put your hand up to coach a team, just wondering if this is the case with local football clubs.

Some massive questions there which I'm not sure I can do justice in one return post however here's some top line thoughts.

Formerly great players can make great coaches. Some can't. Just because you can "do" - doesn't mean you can teach. Indeed trying to break down a skill that is second nature to some players and teach a young player how to execute that that same skill may be beyond some ex-players either from a patience or communication perspective.

In fact I would say coaching at any level is becoming more about effective communication than effective demonstration. The demonstration bit is nice to have but without the necessary communication it gets lost quite quickly.

I've learnt so much about this from coaching 10/11 yr olds and have many examples - one such time was when I was coaching passing and talking to the kids about the "weight" on their passes...it was about 5 mins in when I realised they hadn't a clue what I meant by that so had to break it down and demonstrate overhitting a pass and underhitting a pass and then passing one just right so they knew what I meant.

Assuming every former player makes a good coach there are still not enough former players to go round. Associations/clubs and parents should be insisting that coaches are adequately qualified for the age group and level they are coaching and as harsh as it may sound we have to start getting tough with this and barring people if they are not willing to get their qualifications.

If the truth be told I took the Junior license and found it a bit basic but I hadn't done the C License then.....however, for a club coach who's taking U6-U10 SSG then I think the junior license would be fine. I found the C License really challenging and have found it massively beneficial...I've spoken with many who played at a far higher standard than I ever did who said the same of the C/B/A Licenses.

The quality of the instructors I found excellent - Alistair Edwards and Harry Bingham. The nutrition section was done by an AIS Nuritionist, the goalkeeping section done by Tony Franken - the Socceroos GK coach.

It's about finding your level and if the community courses don't challenge you move up the scale. But just as importantly we need to start having minimum criteria for ALL levels of coaching. You wouldn't let your 6 year old get in the car with an unlicensed driver so you should expect their football coach to have at least the basic qualifications and if your child is on an elite program or playing rep football then the qualifications of the coach should rise accordingly.

Look how world football has changed over the last 20 years...it's crucial that those coaching our kids and our expectations of them move with it.

Hope that's answered some of your questions...I'm sure over the coming months we'll cover this area in more and more detail.

Cheers
Andy

I get what your saying with respect to really young players. Communication is the key and if they dont get it then demonstrating can provide the penny that drops.

I also teach teens and sometimes after explaining a technique they look at me with a blank face. Its then you have to don the boots and show them. Some students are very good at getting it via explanation, Others learn by seeing it then doing it.

At least at our age they get to see it demonstrated in slow motion ;)

I do have another question with regards to FFA pushing the 4-3-3 system. The questions are more pertinent to teen players.

Do you think coaches should push the 4-3-3 system because FFA endorses it as its preferred formation?

In discussions with other coaches it appears to depend on styles of football taught as to what formations are used.

How does the 4-3-3 compare to 3-5-2 and 4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1. Should a coach say right we appear to be getting beaten using our current 4-3-3 formation we need to switch? In other words should coaches approach their formations based on the other sides formations?

Thanks for your reply Andy, A lot of sense in what your saying and I look forward to further discussions with you.

Cheers.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 19/10/2010 03:10:12 PM

Hi mate

No doubt about it...combination of the ability to demonstrate and the ability to communicate is the key.

Really interesting blog here from Rohan Ricketts about his time at Spurs under Hoddle - a talented ex-player turned coach who could demonstrate anything but then became frustrated with his players who couldn't match his ability http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/what-really-happens-when-a-manager-loses-the-dressing-room I've read similar from England players about Hoddle's time with England

There are many variations of 4-3-3 that include what most people would call 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1 can all be considered variations of 4-3-3. It does make sense as a formation for developing players because it promotes natural triangles/diamonds across the pitch and promotes natural width.

Personally with my 11 year olds this season in the few games we had we got them to play a nominal 4-2-3-1 for two main reasons;

1. Having 4 rows rather than 3 across the pitch reduced their need to try and pass the ball further than were really capable off with any accuracy
2. At 11 yrs old if I would have told 3 players they were playing up front they would have the tendency to feel they didn't have to get back and defend...by telling them they were attacking midfield players they defended as well as attacked
3. We regularly rotated all players through the positions often playing them in positions they don't play for their club....not to deliberately be different - just that we saw different aspects to their abilities that their club coaches maybe didn't

So on 4-3-3...I think it has great merit as a formation to develop young players but it's important people are aware of all it's variations and adapt these accordingly to the age and abilities of their players.

G'day Andy, The blog you posted is an interesting read. Without going into too much detail as I see you have reciprocated with a rather open ended referral to a blog that has so many pro's and con's to be discussed I shall jot my thoughts as brief as possible.

If we compare the Hoddle style to the Ferguson style it highlights the stark contrast in management styles.

For tottenham to allow Hoddle to be sacked in my mind explains why spurs don't have a lot of silverware, Would be very interesting to have been a fly on the wall at Hoddles preliminary meetings before becoming coach. I reckon it would have been spurs management wanting success for the club and not really understanding what the sacrifices are to achieve it. The upper management have allowed the players to dictate to them and overide the coaches intentions. This does happen more frequently at lower level type clubs where silverware isn't the prime goal for the price of success. Clubs that do allow the players to dictate over management rarely ever see success. What they build is a community player base rather than a performance based group of players. This is also often seen in association level clubs and then when players get to Super/Youth League its a mixture. At higher levels it becomes more performance based but still attempts to retain that communal player base feeling.

On the other hand at Man U with Fergusons style it's almost a purely performance based style which is primarily focussed on silverware. What player doesnt want silverware and if approached by Ferguson would refuse the offer. I wouldnt hesitate to say no-one would refuse. Clubs attract quality players often by their success. The old saying goes "Success breeds success" but that saying is only relevant to those who can utilise the good fortunate success.

I guess there are quite a few lessons to be learned in Hoddles case and just recently a lesson in Furgusons case where he is losing Rooney. At the end of the day a coach really needs to sit down with the club and clearly define what the clubs goals are and what boundaries or methods do they require to achieve them. No point going at it like a bull at a gate if the club just wants a communal player base or being very laid back if the club wants instant success.

I really like the integral energy ad on tv where the fired up coach is heard playing a big crowd tape, going over complicated strategies and really firing up his players then it pans to kids who are busy looking at birds in a tree or twiddling their thumbs with blank looks on their faces. Then congatulating his star player for another reverse hat trick. So funny but in some cases not far off the mark. I have actually seen this happen in real life which makes me wonder why these type don't learn from ads such as this.

Cheers

Edited by Aussiesrus: 20/10/2010 03:23:30 PM

Arm chair managers welcome here?

I am interested in the tactics of the game and do harbour ambitions of getting my licensing one day, for me the tactical side of the game has always been more appealing than actually playing it. I am more at home analyisng games, tactics, formations and players than I am having a kick at the park like most others

U-11 playing 11 v 11????

In Vic they play 9 v 9 on half a pitch.

Without turning this into an essay if your doing elite kids IMO instead of them playing 11 v 11 they should still be playing on half a pitch 9 v 9 I think even U-12 should aswell.
Reason being:
Technique gets tested in smaller and tighter areas.
Once teams go to 11 v 11 ALL coaches will start focusing on tactics.

The contraints of technique are:
Intensity (speed of technique)
Opposition
Space

I think the third one is overlooked. We add more players (11 v 11) however we add a bigger space aswell (full pitch) this kills the element of playing in tight areas which is so important in the modern game.

FMVS, In NSW I believe they go full pitch at U/9 but corners are taken at a reduced distance.

However I do agree with reduced pitch sizes for U/9, U/10, U/11's for your stated reasons. They should be playing a 1/2 to 3/4 size pitch in my opinion.

Playing in tight areas is so very important but so is being able to use space and passing over longer distances.

Its all very debatable and has is pro's and con's without doubt.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 21/10/2010 06:29:02 AM

Hi mate

Firstly I agree with everything you say.

These kids are under 12 and are playing on full pitches for their clubs...we only get them 1 night a week....this is a shadow squad to the elite rep group for the area...if you read my blog here I explain the system. They play a slightly modified version with corners and goal kicks taken from the edge of the 18 yd box.

We have 16 kids and so the most we play in our sessions with them is 8 v 8 on about 1/4 to 1/3 of a pitch but we play a handful of games as a squad through the year against other associations...some of these have been SSG format...most however have been on full pitches as that's what they are playing at club level.

In our area I believe they are moving to SSG up to U11...it's been U10 up until now.

Cheers

Andy

Hi andy,

Sorry mate I'm going to put you on the spot here. I know this is a performance section but this situation does happen to coaches and I really want to know what accredited coaches do in these type of situations. I've even found myself in this situation years ago.

There are a couple of things bugging me when I coached 10 and 11 year olds. I'm hoping you can give me some ideas should i ever have to deal with these type of things again. In fact I've seen the same thing with 16 year olds this year.

1. When I coached 10 year olds I had some very talented players who could take on players with their skills and get around them well. However these young talented players tended to get hacked off the park.

1a. How does a coach deal with these type of things when a ref doesn't protect the players? Quite a few times I had to take the player off through fear of him being seriously hurt.

2. One year I had a combination of under age players and players that had never played before, A team of 9 only out of 11. They were graded up a year and put in Div 1. Although I would have penned them in at div 2 in their own age group. I had no control over the gradings (as coaches never do). Basically they would spend the whole game in their box defending and ended up 100 goals against and 1 for all year.

2a. How would you deal with this situation and how would you approach the parents of these kids. Also what sort of things would you do to continue trying to encourage the kids to keep learning and trying?

Sometimes coaches get put into very tough situations and there appears to be no manual for how to best deal with it. Sadly I've seen the same thing this year in our U/17 yr old comp where a team ended up with something like 250 goals against and 2 for. So its not only very young kids that get put into these type of situations.

Mate if I could nominate a good sports team of the year this team would be it. They turned up every week, week in week out despite the odds against them.

Cheers

Edited by Aussiesrus: 21/10/2010 09:31:12 PM

Hi mate

I can offer an opinion but not experience having never experienced either scenario yet first hand.

In the first case where players are getting hacked.....if it crossed the line from controlled aggression to outright hacking.....I'd probably first try to speak with the referee to ask why he isn't offering players the necessary protection although appreciate that can be difficult with the age/experience of most referees controlling that age group. I'd also speak to the opposing coach and ask him if he's asked his player(s) to play like that and if not whether he's happy with that....if he has asked them to play like that then I'd tell him he should be ashamed of him/herself. I too would probably take the player off to avoid serious injury that week....however I would then work with the group as a whole and your flair players in particular about how to deal with this in future....often (like playground bullies) these sort of over aggressive players soon back down if they are stood up to and I would teach my team the value of collective responsibility and the need to look after your team mates on the pitch....a collective show of strength might be needed against these sorts of players.

Scenario 2 - the obvious answer is that you've been let down badly by the grading system...BUT if I ended up stuck in that scenario I would forget about the final scoreline and set the kids smaller challenges over the course of a game that you could work on in training.

e.g. maybe break the game down into 10 minute chunks and try to concede as few a goals as possible in each ten minute chunk....and aim for a clean sheet in as many ten minute chunks as you can.....if they concede 5 in the first ten minutes no bother - the game begins again in the 11th minute...try and concede less this time.

offensively you could set them challenges within the game such as how many times they can complete 3 consecutive passes or 5 consecutive passes.....how many overlapping runs they can make, how many one-twos etc

all of the above can be worked on in training and then taken into the game

the kids may still lose each week but if they are achieving the goals you are setting them then praise them as if they've won the game...because ultimately they have.

if they start winning these little games within games then you should (hopefully) see an improvement in the overall result and even if you don't if you set them realistic objectives that they keep achieving each week it should still be a positive experience....you have to commit to though and really believe that 3 consecutive passes of only conceding 4 in a ten minute chunk is worthy of praise or they will see it/hear it in your voice

I think the key thing is to show that you still believe they are capable of improvement and approach training like that ....even if if improvement may mean losing 7-0 rather than 10-0

hope that makes sense and as I say that's my opinion on how I'd approach it as opposed to any direct experience

Edited by Andy Jackson: 22/10/2010 08:21:40 AM

Cheers Andy.

Some very helpful advice here. Not always, but usually its the volounteer mums n dads that find themselves coaching in these scenarios and its heartbreaking for whoever is the coach.

Good stuff mate. Keep it coming.

I cannot wait to see how you conduct a training session. I did under u/11 last season although I am doing u/15 next year I still regard 9-13 as the most important age.

I will be interested to see if you follow the FFA model of letting players "develop" instead of teaching them technique which not many people understand.

This is a massive topic IMO because this model of letting players "develop" is already outdated with Spain and France doing a combination of both (which makes a lot of sense).

Hey FMVS,

I've coached U/9, U/10 , U/11 , U/17, Prems, Reserves.

I've found that U/9 - U/11 tend to forget everything they learn as soon as the whistle blows to start a game.

U/17's tend to retain part and occassionally use what they learn at training in a game, but its usually "Whateva" And are always happy to share their years of inexperience how they should play.

Prems and Reserves think they know everything and don't listen anyway.

I agree 9-13's are a blank canvas to work with but the whistle blowing for the start of a game tends to keep the canvas blank during a game.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime i've heard a coach say "Why do I bother!!"

The key is really educating them so they have that knowledge. But when they start to use it is anyones guess. Sometimes it can be years.

I think you will get a lot more satisfaction from coaching U/15's next year as they are aware enough to learn and not too old to think they know everything. It's a golden age for learning

Best of luck.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 22/10/2010 02:24:36 PM

Obviously what you won't be able to see from a session plan is at what point we jump in and make corrections because until we start we don't know of course. But what you'll be able to see is the structure, the mix of activities and the progressions. I'll add in the blog the purpose of each exercise and I'll be glad to share what works and what doesn't.

When I did my C License two years ago - which was of course run by FFA - they certainly weren't saying that everything had to be coached within the game setting.

The phrase that I believe was coined by Wenger is "guided discovery" where the coach creates environments where players are encouraged to find their own solutions rather than just being told "do it like this".

HOWEVER - this relies on them having a basic and fundamental grasp of the technique first and in that regard I see no problem with breaking down the elements of each technique at an early age especially coaching kids the right body position, part of the foot etc to execute each technique and much of the C License focussed on this. And I certainly do that although I will try and coach that in a dynamic environment rather than having the kids stand opposite each other kicking the ball backwards and forwards to each other.

I always try and make any part of session relevant to a game situation so the kids see there is a point to everything you are asking them to do.....I also always try to end my sessions with a game that is manufactured to hone in on the particular area we've been working on.

Often at 10-11 years old it's making it relevant in a frame of reference they can relate to - and that's generally a famous player.

Sometimes I'll look for an example from the weekend's EPL or A-League games to start the session e.g. a good volley, or header or overlapping run or own-two that then focuses the kids on what we're trying to achieve.

I also use the magazine to show examples of good technique...e.g players striking the ball - part of the foot, position of the head.



I'm still learning every single week as a coach. Sometimes you try things that work, some don't...sometimes you change the session you had planned on the fly because it's not going the way you thought it would.

We need to be as hungry to learn, flexible and adaptable as we expect our players to be.....and just as in life sometimes you have to hold your hand up admit you didn't get it right and commit to doing it better next time.

The reason I'm doing this it to share the ups and downs of coaching at this level and I'd hope other people might do the same and join the discussion. It's going to get boring very quickly if it's just my session plans getting picked apart by you lot :d

So I'd be keen to see what you do with your U15s and learn from your experiences that may help me if I coach that age group in the future.


Hope that makes sense

Andy

Edited by Andy Jackson: 22/10/2010 03:01:13 PM

Yeah it does make a lot of sense.

I don't know what the courses are like in NSW but in Vic we are told NOT to teach technique. We just play a game that encourages the technical topic and thats it.

E.g. Passing - 2 touch normal game
Dribbling - to score a goal it has to be dribbled into the end zone.
etc
And the thing is if you dont do this the FFV crack it because we are supose to be part of National curriculum.

I will give you a run down of my U-11 training drills where in short I basically taught them technique in the first phase and in the second phase I let them develop technique and in the last phase they play a game.

Plan
Here is one of my training sessions.
Keep in mind this is u-11 first year kids.

Warm ups
Two Skills squares.

Finishing
1 v 1 Shooting Drill

Technique – Game Situation
2 v 2 continuous drill

Game
SSG - 5 v 5

Warm up

Purpose
Teach techniques under no pressure.
Then to add intesity by dribbling to second square perform skill and back again.

All players dribbling with the ball in the area.
Dynamic stretches with the ball.
10 on the ball
10 in between
10 knees on the ball
Sit on the ball 3 times.

Dribbling
Outside, Inside

Evasion Techniques
Step over
Fakes
Stud roll
Roulette

Turns
Inside
Outside
Stud Turn
Cruoff
Reverse step over
360 turns

Intensity
On coaches call players dribble to a "second square" performs a skill and then dribble back. This adds the pressure of speed which is one of the constraints of technique.


1 v 0 then progressing into a 1 v 1
1. Teach Shooting techniques
2. Develop Evasion techniques and finishing under limited pressure.

2 v 2 continous drill
1. Lets players develop dribbling and decision making(insight - when to dribble, when to pass) under limited pressure.
Simulates a counter attacking situation.


5 v 5 SSG
Promote creativity and mistakes.
(My biggest challenge was getting the kids to try new things in games some loved to so were to scared of failure).