The revamped VPL, which was close to being put in place a few years ago, turning it more into a pro comp, is something that I would like to find out more details about.

Was it zonal, or a selection of a few clubs based on performance and finance? From memory it was 8 or 10 teams to start with, but thats about all I can remember of the specifics.

If we are talking about the V-League proposed during the tenure of Tony Pignata, it involved such things as.

- mandatory women's team
- mandatory junior teams, including under 18s (VPL and state league 1 has under 21 teams as its reserves teams at the moment)
- 500 undercover seats
- probably several other venue requirements (such as two entry and exit points
- full time general manager/ceo

So basically like the nspwl?

I don't know what the prerequisites are to play in the NSWPL.

I suppose the idea was to encourage those club that were interested in growing and developing the game from a playing, community and infrastructure point of view, and to prevent those only interested in splashing the cash around for titles remaining the dominant force at this level.

What is the break up of the FFV board at present and what or who do they sit for?

Would agree with all of these. Some clubs already fulfill the first 4 points, and aren't far off the 5th.

Sydney Olympic fulfills them all

- womens teams rep sides from u12's to first grade
- yoth teams from u13's to u18's
- 9000 undercover seast, with 35 corporate boxes
- 3 entry points and 5 exit points
- two full time staff, gm and admin staff

Of all the federations, the current FFV board seems to be the one that is most in awe or agreeance with the what the FFA want to do. In part it's because we do not have the massive bank account of FNSW, and therefore can't threaten the FFA with acts of defiance as easily as FNSW.

Previous boards have been made up of people with vested interests in particular clubs, and who sought to exercise their influence for their own clubs benefit. In one example, the president of the FFV at the time of the V-League announcement was affiliated with Altona Magic, one of the aforementioned clubs that seemingly had no interest in developing the game beyond its own goal of winning the VPL title. Thus it was alleged that he was one of the people who sought to scupper the V-League proposal.

Had some of the clubs who were meeting or close to meeting the criteria made more of ruckus about it, things may have been different. Instead that chance for community based clubs to both keep their place in the top-flight of Victorian soccer while at the same establishing strong foundations across several areas has gone. With some justification, the authorities can say that these clubs were given a chance, and it wasn't taken.

when does the current boards tenure expire?

Interesting. Thanks for those details.

Certainly would have been a big change. Not sure the lack of promotion and relegation was going to be a good thing though, but those changes could have been added on in future years, once the game grew, and the product became stronger.




Who made this about Olympic, who are not even in Victoria, so really have nothing to do with this proposal? Good for you that your club has these elements, but its something clubs down here need to work at getting to, and many clubs in NSW too, mainly due to years of under investment in the game, going back decades.

Unfortunately though, things are not likely to change for quite a while to come, as every move is met with hostility, usually by the very few that already have the wealth. Strange how that happens isn't it:)

Ultragirl's not making it about Olympic - appears to be simply agreeing with me that raising the standard of the leagues outside the A-League should be encouraged, and that there are already clubs out there who can help raise that standard.

Also, always nice to see a Greek 'ultragirl' confirm three entry points. ;)

Its all about Olympic though in his/her mind, which is what annoys me, and many others it seems. It comes across very much like theres only one thing that matters in this country, irrespective of its relevance to the question or discussion.

Very true about your three points statement:)

Dear Heartfan,

Im sorry that you have no calling in life and your club is plastic and it annoys you.

But my club is real and i live for it.

So yes it is my job to talk about my club its why im here I love my club

FOR LIFE OLYMPIC!

Good for you.

Im sure it makes you so proud to provoke others. Your attempts at name calling just serve to prove the type of person you are. Thanks for solidifying that in mine, and many others minds.

Yes I proposed the V League to improve the standard of facilities and improve the game in Victoria. Sth Melb are employing a full time GM/CEO and that is a step in the right direction. Sadly I never got the chance to implement it but I think it would have been a good implementation and a benefit to football in Victoria.

ultragirl has a point i say, shes not perfect but thats just my opinion on this issue.. even after almost a decade the A-League represents nothing but rubbish, its something that makes me sick to the stomach and doesnt represent me, or football.

it makes me sad all the way to the heart when i see people making the connection between the A-League and Australian football, to its detriment. its a sad indication of where our sport is in 2011. That isnt necessarily a glorification of the past. its just comprehension of today.

Most people didnt like John Howard or his GST, the GST he said he would not introduce.. the public hated him but he won in 1996 1998, 2001 and 2004. just because he stayed in power that long doesnt mean he was popular or good.

And in this sits the problem.

People like you make bold statements like that, regarding the HAL being rubbish, but its all subjective. Many more would feel that the NSL was a joke also, but thats just the way it is.

The NSL did not truely represent many, but for a few nationalities, which made the demographic appeal of the game as marginalised as it could be. If you happened to belong to the Greek, Croatian or Italian communities, the NSL had strong connections to you, but if you did not, then things got alittle less certain. In the end, football representated such a small portion of the population, which is obviously what some want to see happen again, especially if they call for the death of the HAL, and the return to the NSL days.

The use of the word plastic in regards to the HAL is also a funny one. All teams started out at one point, and built a history, some good and some bad.

I do not expect you, or some others on here, to agree, but a balanced outlook on things, without tunnel vision, would give a clearer picture on the realities of where the game was a decade ago, compared to now. Things are not perfect, and changes can be made, but to try and suggest that the HAL and the performance of football in this country have somehow sent the game backwards is very funny.

Mate Olympic has had thousands of non greek heritage australians and most olympic supportters are born in oz anyway so cut the racial shit get over it.

Your racist and im happy for you, but sydney fc being a jewish club is all good.

Give me a break

An opinion is an opinion, but in my view there was nothing racist about it. If you want to turn it into that, go for your life, but it would be good if you looked at things in context for once.

As for your Sydney FC comments, I have never seen a Israeli flag at any match, or a chant in Hebrew for that matter, unlike those of the Olympic days, where Greek flags, Greek chants and anything Greek was king, including any political issue that affected that country.People may be born here, but its the mindeset they carry around that is more important in this sense, and the association of external factors that seem to bring the connection. In that case, your SFC viewpoint is extremely misguided, and bordering on the side of crazy.

Your racist remarks make me laugh. I just want you to look from another viewpoint for 5 seconds atleast, unblinded by those Blue and White glasses, and see how the game was a decade ago, and just how marginalised it was, mainly by its own actions. It became a political minefield, more than about football.

Ive admitted things arent perfect now, and some changes are needed, but I would love to hear atleast some kind of concession from you that not is doomsday, or that the game does exist outside of Belmore:)


Edited by heart_fan: 19/1/2011 04:26:14 PM

The game is doomed champ, lucky the real clubs are pulling together to rev up interest.

11k for biggest derby of year sydney versus Melbourne, ffa broke, national team in taturs the game is doomend.

Back to the topic please

You never cease to amaze me. Stubborn as can be.

Your comments are so off the mark, its not even worth going into them. Theres no way anythings going to get through that head of yours.

You want people to give you, and your club, respect, but the attitude shown is both arrogant in parts and ignorant in the rest. Theres no way anyones going to take your viewpoint seriously with those kinds of opinions you preach, and unverified accusations you throw around.

Edited by heart_fan: 19/1/2011 05:17:18 PM

Boy, did this thread got derailed.

Perhaps we need twin 442 forums, one where every thread can get derailed due to references to Olympic, and another where it doesn't.

How many Australians dont have either English or Irish or Greek or Croatian or Italian or Jewish or Serbian or Lebanese or Nigerian or Brazilian or Mexican or Spanish or French or Chinese or Russian or Afghan or Turkish or Polish or Hungarian or Chilean or Ethiopian or Portugese or Korean or Czech or Uruguayan heritage? By your own logic the NSL in particular appealed to all these communities and more. How is that marginalised? I mean are you for real?

Levels of mainstream success for the national competition, NSL and A-League alike, come from a number of factors, including;
- the amount of corporate sponsorship
- the degree of grass roots and community involvement
- the ability and competence of administrators
- the ability to break down the increasingly inherent xenophobia of the population
- the appeal of the sport through external/semi-external outlets like EPL on tv and the Socceroos

Like Ultragirl said, I know many non-Greek SOFC supporters, many non-Croatian Sydney United supporters, many non-Portugese Dulwich Hill supporters and so on. Australian football has always been an exciting and inviting environment at matchday. There have always been a lot of politics in the game but on the park and in the stands its always been about the game in front of everyone on the day. People game enough to fight off the xenophobia were able to participate in something very dear.

who forgets that the Socceroos were a goal away from USA '94 and five minutes and a tear in the net away from France '98? Who knows what participation in those competitions would have done to our sport? Who knows if Lowy and his cronies would even be in power today? and who can say that those losses were attributable to the state of the national competition or the national body? such claims would be outrageous.

In much the same way, how can anyone say that our qualification in 2005 was Frank's gift to all of us? the FFA chartered a Qantas plane to fly from Montevideo to Sydney, wow. this whole idea is a myth with absolutely no substance.

and for God's sake WHERE is Sydney FC's community development? Eastern Suburbs football academy sponsored by Westfield, Macquarie Uni and Narrabeen training centres wow again. the academy is full of snobs that like hearing that their kid is going to be the next Socceroo. Clubs like Olympic have accredited academies with full time staff, kids getting A-League contracts kids winning AIS scholarships and kids frequently trialling and passing at overseas clubs. fact.

the use of the word plastic is simple and appropriate because it is referring to the fact that the vast majority of the A-League clubs are FRANCHISES owned by plutocrats and other bandwagoners who were nowhere to be seen until the lure of profit sucked them in. They listened to Lowy and are on the whole very angry that they havent made any money in quickly coming 10 years! poor them.

And for the record AND ONLY BECAUSE IT WAS RAISED IN DISCUSSION FIRST it should be noted that not only have I seen an Israeli flag at the SFS at Sydney FC games but I did in fact see security not confiscate the foreign flag but hold it up as well. would love to find photos but cant remember who the opposition was, likely late 2009. just saying.

honestly I think your suggesting that I and like-minded people have tunnel-vision is disrespectful.

I find so many things disrespectful about statements made by those with an agenda against the FFA and the HAL too, so dont think those backing your opinion are the innocent party here. Both sides dislike of each other is powerful, and lead by self interest on a grand scale. The issue is that so many are trying to undermine anything that is done, theres no way we are going to move forward at this rate.

As for your comments about clubs, I didnt see any Asian, Turkish, Portugese and many other backed clubs in the NSL? Not sure what your on about there sorry.

As for Sobkowski, I agree its more about perception, but thats an important element to consider. The true issue is that the main demographic that related to most NSL clubs were from their heritage, with a small external element. In the end, people looked on, and struggled to feel included, if they sat outside that. The reason I followed the MK club is because it was a local club, and I grew up with many Croatians, who followed the club. Without that link, dont think I would have followed them at all.

Rightly or wrongly, people make up their minds early about things, and things cloud the product. Whichever way the sport turns there will be groups excluded, mainly by their own choice.

Over the years, for whatever reason, many 'ethnic' social clubs formed, and many of those clubs developed football teams... As time went on, for some of these social clubs the football became a side issue that they weren't prepared to invest the time or money in, for others the effort was put into the football. It was this second category of clubs that formed the bulk of the NSL. It is fair to blame those who continued to invest effort, time and money, in the game for 'marginalising' the sport, simply on the grounds that those who didn't bother to push on are no longer represented?

I get where you are coming from, and I think this is where the issue truely sits. Those who out in the effort should be congratulated for their efforts in trying to get the game to start rolling in the past, in very difficult circumstances.

On top of that though is the fact that the efforts of those few also had a negative effect which revolved around the inability to engage the other community groups, or elements of society, outside the influence of the clubs original backing. As such, the game stayed as it was, as a maginalised sport. Any changes to the clubs traditions to try and adapt to the demands of the sporting society, and those willing to invest and get involved with the game, were not liked by supporters of NSL clubs, and that became the true brickwall situation for the comp. They were proud of what the club stood for, and that was great for them, but in the end did nothing for the game as a whole.

Its a very complex situation, which saw people put in large amounts of money, and effort, only to see things stall, or slide backwards, as commercial and broadcasting partners fell by the wayside. With the loss of those elements, any chance of real growth was never going to happen unfortunately.

IMHO though, the game is still in a much healthier position now, with a broader base of supporters present, along with far bigger commercial and TV interest in the product. I know many will not agree, and I am not sitting here trying to tell you to believe it, but looking at the results on offer, that is my opinion on the matter.

Edited by Heart_fan: 23/1/2011 11:14:19 PM

My position differs from many of my fellow SMFC (and Olympic, etc.) supporters...

I gladly acknowledge that on many levels the game is in a much healthier position now, than it was back then. However, I believe that it could be in a better position than it is.

I believe that if stronger elements of the 'old' game had been retained, alongside new franchises, with a more competent league administration, and operating under a more effective financial model (to be more precise, a range of financial models).

Once the decision was made to go "one team, one city", then I have no problem with them going for the 'broadbased' bid - but that decision in itself was (I think) flawed, and the decision when 2nd city expansions began to go for 'more of the same', rather than a clearly differentiated side, was in many ways flawed.

I appreciate that viewpoint. Its alot less hardline, or militant in nature, than many.

The FFA has made mistakes with the HAL, with 2 teams in Syd and Mel from day 1 a far better idea than what we have now, with secondary entrants chasing an established player. I also saw value in a club like SMFC joining the comp along with MVFC at the time of its creation, although I am not so sure MKFC would have been very happy. This would have been a broadbased new club against an established player, starting together in the new era of the game. The FFA saw against this move, as there were likely many complications to such a plan, but the symbolism would have been good.

you havent addressed any of the issues i raised..

first point is reflective of AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL its not limited to the NSL or the past.

WHO CAN EXPLAIN WHY CENTRAL COAST MARINERS HAD BAGPIPES LAST WEEK?
double standards why should the rest us put up with that? us the marginalised Australians who have been told that their clubs are ethnic and therefore unwanted and poison. theres no way around that.

LOL you followed MK because it was a local club and you grew up with a lot of Croatians with multiple ties to the club. And you wouldnt be a fan otherwise? dont you think most people are the same? I dont know about yourself but Im pretty sure that the most valuable and loyal kind of fan DOESNT pick his or her team from the colours they wear, or whether David Beckham is coming to play against them in a year or two. Local club? what a great way to be connected to a team. LOCAL COMMUNITY. grew up with Croatians that liked MK? what an amazing experience being a part of so many layers of social interaction through sport. and wow (maybe you didnt think of this one either) but you liked football? funny enough theres a team playing down the road that your friends go and watch every week. why wouldnt you go too?

Sydney Olympic is an AUSTRALIAN CLUB with a rich history and whose success is tied to the future of the game. Its hard to shroud its Greek elements but nobody should have to. Its hard to shroud its connection to the Belmore local community (which isnt primarily Greek I might add) but nobody should have to. Its hard to shroud its elite development programs and academy but nobody should have to.

What clubs like MK and Olympic have been told to do by the FFA for years now is to be ashamed of the things that make them unique and fantastic contributors to the game and the community generally. More proof that the FFA are off their fucking marbles.

Anothermp, I totally understand your feelings on this, and it also is something that I feel is a catch 22 for the game in this country.

Unfortunately, for various reasons, football became marginalized, largely due to a perceived division on ethnic lines, which resulted a smaller demographic appeal. What made football in this country though was it's connection to migrant communities, which added life to the sport in the 50s and 60s in particular. It's an important piece of the games history here, which should definately not be forgotten, but in the end, those days also carry some negative baggage, which is why things become harder to embrace.

As for my connection to MK, I was never a big supporter, only ever going to a couple of matches. I followed them, looked up the results and looked forward to the highlights show when it was on tv.

Connection comes in many forms, but I never fully connected to football until MH came along.
Everyone finds their own reasons to follow a team, and that's what makes the game. The true issue is that things were perceived to be largely driven by a national flag, or nationalistic cause, overriding other factors. That turned many off the game. At the end of the day, it can become very devisive. Whether it was the reality or not is in the eye of the beholder.

Now we are at a point where people feel devided again, because their clubs have been excluded. Either way, the FFA is in a lose lose position.

In the VPL, these clubs have a vital role to play still, and it has been great to see the efforts many have gone to to adapt to their current situation. Many overlook that, but it's definately something that is a real credit to many stakeholders.



Edited by heart_fan: 26/1/2011 01:19:32 AM