Rubbish.

You're assuming they are working up and down the line no matter what part of the park the ball maybe, which is not the case. Perhaps if you'd been correctly schooled in this formation you'd have a better understanding. A more rounded education might lead you to thinking outside of the tiny square you've backed yourself into.

Your pre planned formation can take any shape it wants to during the course of a game. This is often dictated by the quality of the oppostion, both at a team and individual level. Any coach who claims his team always maintains shape (442, 433, 352 or whatever) is a dullard and a liar.




Edited by judy free: 17/6/2011 03:21:39 PM

I don’t hold out much hope.
I have no doubt he will be able to see the skill and the lack of skill.
I don’t think he will be able to tell the truth about the lack of skill of some of the more popular players. And how would you say to players who have been selected based on speed and height that they don’t have enough skill.
If he does he will not be the first Dutch coach to be lynched for telling the truth.

:-k :-k :-k

The wide players are going to cover the ground for the requisite width if the ball is in defence or attack. Even if they tuck in, they are still covering a lot of ground.

I can't remember the national federations you suggested play 3-5-2 as their preferred development formation.

:lol:

Clueless.

This is clearly an ongoing personal attack nothing to do with the subject.
I suggest the mods ban you.

One thing about you aussie coaches you never learn and can not change,
You have been Banned once or twice before chips

Go ahead, do it.

However, please excuse my non shallots.

So far it has been interesting.

I just wanted to comment on the amount of running between a 4-4-2 and a 4-3-3 for a wide midfielder.

For my amateur club team, I've been playing on the right midfield in both of these formations (although we probably set up in more of a 4-5-1 then a 4-3-3, we interpret and use the formation defensively when we have to) and I've found that the 4-3-3 requires a lot more running back and forth than the 4-4-2 does.

This would be more to do with the way my team plays, we aren't particularly skilled and tend to get outplayed by technical opponents, which means as the right midfielder I'm back helping out the defence a lot, getting men behind the ball, and thus when the ball goes long for the lone striker (we play a fair bit of kick and chase crap, as much as we talk about not doing that) it is gut busting work running the length of the field trying to support the striker, where as in a 4-4-2, because there are more bodies up front, when the ball inevitably gets hoofed long, there are people up there to hold it up for a while until I can get up the field to support.

This really has nothing to do with youth training and I think if you got a bunch of kids to play the system properly (i.e. Building out from the back and moving up the field as a team rather than booting it long to a striker who is marked by 3/4 defenders) than you wouldn't have these problems, but I thought I'd relate my experiences there.

Thanks
we don't often here from current players

Decentric
Looks like these Dutch coaches know their stuff and are willing to make the tough calls.
My hope is now that they will make their opinions known to all who count.
Big call though.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) \:d/ \:d/ \:d/ \:d/

Good news about the Dutch coaches.

Hope they make their opinions known to those who count.

No unfortunately they have not.
No direct feed back to the kids who failed.
Imo the kids who have been selected in the past are entitled to some constructive feed back. Not through their coaches but directly to them.
It is the least they could do.

Hardly the job of a coach/selector to provide psychological support to pissed orf parents.

Your son has been selected, but his mates have missed out. Now, krones, prepare yourself for being accused of interfering with the selection process. :lol:

Small-time suburban sockah politics, gawd bless the lot of 'em.



Edited by judy free: 4/7/2011 08:29:19 AM

what?

After paying $8000+ over 4 years and never getting your son selected i believe the players and the parents are owed the truth.

You want a money back guarantee?

maybe the kid was just not good enough.

deal with it.

Just a professional assessment.
Not too much for the parents to ask for after $8000 and 4 years.



Edited by krones3: 4/7/2011 12:30:48 PM

With what?

that the kids not good enough.

I believe a little bit of soul searching along with a good long hard stare in the mirror usually sorts these people out.

When their little johnny has finally flown the coop and has moved on to sex, drug, alco and debauchery, they will think back to those selfish days when they tried to live their dreams through their kid. And, then wonder if they may have been better advised to spend that $8k on education.

Who?

All these kids are getting a good and expensive education.
What they are not getting is good coaching and this would be shown with an assessment.
Unfortunately this is a legacy of Paul Lontons tenure.

Edited by krones3: 4/7/2011 01:35:58 PM

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second.

I have vast experience dealing with rabid parents and know exactly where their priorities lie.

8 out of 13 go to private schools

In theory , the distances covered should be similar. The distance the flankers in a flat midfield 4-4-2 cover should be similar to the wide forwards in the 4-3-3, even if Reedy's team play closer to to a 4-5-1.

Since I've waxed lyrical about KNVB good points, I'll elucidate some of the shortcomings.

In the course I did there was constant reference to what wingers should do in a team context, but no actual description of what they should do individually. Responding to my criticism of this facet of this course in feedback forms, Arie Schans described the job of the winger individually at the end of the course.

Edited by Decentric: 10/7/2011 05:55:41 PM

A further problem is that KNVB has no handbook as to how to impart specific techniques.

Whereas UEFA Training Ground, Barca Academy, AC Milan Academy have videos available on the internet, KNVB has little. Coerver does for a price. Brazilian Soccer Schools do too (BSS has a lot of training ground technique practices which can apply to other easier and more fundamental techniques).

In the KNVB training I did, there was a lot of instruction about tactical training, match analysis, how to structure training ground sessions and when to impart Technique, Insight and Communication. A technique handbook, and references to explicit video instruction for techniques on the internet, would have made it complete.

KNVB currently posits that it is not possible to play Total Football in the contemporary football world. The improvements in intensive pressing, and fitness of modern teams leaves too little time and space to play this type of football, according to KNVB.

Spain and Barcelona have played a brand of football which is successful in the modern milieu. Johan Cruyff set up the Barca Academy based on KNVB principles. Barca has taken KNVB and 4-3-3 to another level.

JuveJuve wrote:

I actually like the methodology behind KNVB. Now answer me this. If we're copying the dutch, how can we ever attempt to be better than them let alone equal to them. Copying best practice is flawed in so many ways. Certainly, we can learn from best practice methods however to copy them will achieve mediocrity. It must be transferable and manipulated to suit the participant(s) or Australia and Australian's. Has this be done? or is it a direct copy?

This an excellent post, JJ.

The top coaching methodologies in the world in terms of national federations are:

Dutch KNVB
French Clarefontaine (Tassie FFA TD told me Clarefontaine was the biggest of a number of football schools in France)
Italian Coverciano
Brazil

Barcelona Academy is probably an even better version of KNVB , based on KNVB precepts. Johan Cruyff set up Barca Academy predicated on KNVB principles.

Current KNVB doctrine is that it is impossible to play Total Football within the contemporaneous football milieu, because of the intense squeezing and pressing in the modern game. Barcelona has achieved quality football that the KNVB didn't think was possible to play in contemporary football.



If we look at the above as suitable models for Australia:

I think I've read something by Rob Baan, or Han Berger, somewhere, when they elucidated the decision making process for an Australian playing style.

Brazil

Their football federation has a lot of quasi PE teacher type coaches. They rely heavily on geting highly technical players for their programmes. They don't have to train players technically in mostother countries, because they get kids who've come off the street after playing hours and hours of football. The prevailing thought is that we can never match Brazil.

Culturally there are also massive cultural differences between Brazil and Australia. Apparently in Brazil, one has to consult a priest before dropping some players from a team as a coach!!! I've read this somewhere to describe some of the problems Brazilian players may encounter in Australia.


Italy

The prevailing thought is that Australia struggles to play the type of footbal that Italy is so good at in terms of the Austalian national psyche.




France

According to our state FFA TD, Australia has added some aspects of Clarefontaine in the National Curiculum. I think there was a decision reached that Australia would be best served with a largely French or Dutch methodology.



Dutch KNVB

My last FFA course in FFA was in 2007. There was no KNVB flavour in that course.

Rob Baan brought out Ad Derkson and Arie Schans from Zeist to train A League youth coaches in KNVB methodology to put all Australian A league, NTC youth coaches on the same page. FFA decided to keep the KNVB gents for longer and train plebs like me in the following week.

When I examine the new FFA national Curriculum there is a strong KNVB influence. Again the state TD told me that Alistair Edwards and a few other FFA coaches were charged with studying oversea coaching curricula to determine what we would do in Australia. He said we have also incorporated aspects of Japanese and American football curricula.

JJ, this gets back to you rpoint about being eclectic in Australia, that that is the best way to go. I am not confident that Alistair Edwards et, can make decisions to elinminate aspects of KNVB from the NC. That is only my opinion.


If you read through this thread, one can gain some sort of an dea about the precision of KNVB. It is really highly structured, systematic and tatically sound street football. The KNVB yourth certificate extrapolates to a lot of FFA C Licence content.

It is another reason why I'm appraising state league senior coaches in Tasmania. State branch of FFA seem desperate to get coaches doing courses. Empirically, there has been litle evidence of any recently trained coaches applying the NC on the training track. If they are, the way teams train and play is vastly inferior to the source KNVB methodology I learnt from Schans and Derkson. Baan occasionally had input, but he wasn't a qualified KNVB instructor.

Maybe if we had adopted Clarefontaine practice in its entirety it could've been better. Who knows? I don't know anyone who has trained in KNVB and Clarefontaine. Both their practices are from similar cultural backgrounds.

Given the training practices of KNVB we may go some way to becoming as good as the Dutch over time. The fact we have egg ball codes and other sports competing, unlike Holland, doesn't help.