What is your point?

We were knocking off these countries when we had nowhere near the levels of money we spend these days whilst we still had the competition from other codes and sport.



Edited by rabid: 3/5/2011 12:25:53 AM

What a great way to buy time and keep draining the dollars.

Imagine if i said to my MD, "listen here, forget short term results for now, keep paying me based on worlds best practice and wait for the returns down the track."

Guess where i would be?

I thought Les was ready to rip into Berger about this issue. And there is a problem in this area as the National Curriculum is "Vague" about content and "Vague" to the layman junior coach. The only content ("recommended training drills") is some notes available about the SAP (Skill Acquisition Programmes)program. The Father volunteer coach at "grassroots" level is the one begging for help and it hasn't been forthcomming enough from Han Bergers's office.

This is not good enough.

It's funny how you can read results two different ways. You see the above as the success of the system. I look at the players in that squad and see it as the exact opposite. Apart from McDonald firing in some in the Championship and Kennedy succeeding in the J-League, that squad has gone on to do exactly diddly-squat! Rather than judging youth squads on their final placing at youth tournaments, lets judge on how they develop their senior career.

So stefcep walked into an U13/3's training session and demanded to know why the dad (who drew the short straw) wasn't playing a 433.

I can just see you on game day, stalking the sidelines, shouting "where's our Lionel Messi?"

Too funny. :lol:

Exactly what Bergler wants to hear - his financial planner would be thrilled to hear such feedback.

Forever unaccountable.



Edited by judy free: 3/5/2011 09:02:10 AM

Salesman walks into his sales manager's office to explain why he missed his monthly sales target by 80%.

"we have never been in better shape"
"I am using world's best internal systems"
"my sales tactics are considered world's best practice"
"I've enrolled on three more sales training courses this fin year"
"I am a highly trained salesman, who dresses neatly and looks the part"
"I see nothing but target-busting returns a few years down the track"
"only problem at the moment is that my immediate sales prospects are all idiots"
"Oh and boss, can I shift from a commission based salary to a simple high base?"

But all credit to Bergler's sales skill - he's certainly sold our FFA one massive dummy.

Exactly.

We've been sold a dream.

These things happen when a rower is making strategic football decisions.

I can't see the problem with what Shatter has written. If anything, he's hit the nail on the head!

Which players in the dutch-stamped U20's (or U23's) are contracted to an EPL club or any club in a top euro league?

Macca was at Southhampton at 18 years old.

Diddly-squat?





Edited by judy free: 3/5/2011 09:35:34 AM

Oh derrr.

We've employed a collection of 5th rate unemployable dutch hacks who have managed to fool a rower, an AFL dude and shopping centre rent collector by speaking in scripted headline statements.

The strayan sockah con of the century.

Spot on. And none playing for the top clubs of Europe.

Edited by ozboy: 3/5/2011 09:19:53 AM

That's the thing, what is this technical issue? The problem of not seeing the coaching content deeper down the through the system?

+1

The techniques that made this squad world beaters at U-17 level is what hurt them when they are adults.

If this squad was so good and the techniques were so great pre 2005, why didn't these players get to the highest level as adults like the players from other countries at that world cup did?

Ive recently completed my senior coaching certs and to be honest im concerned by some of the things ive witnessed in the course.

I would say the vast majority of the coaches who completed the course with me were so focussed on what the book told them to do that come match day if the 433 isnt working they are going to be absolutely stuffed.

At the moment our head coach is refusing to deviate from the 433 that we are playing even though it seems obvious that the majority of our african players and also supprisingly our pommy cannot comprehend how the formation is supposed to work.

The 433 formation is supposed to develop players not necesarilly be the be all and end all of football......

My cousin plays in u16 (I think) and they use the 433. But the coach has it set up wrong with a CM and 2 wingers hugging the sidelines, leaving a massive hole in midfield where the opposition stroll right through every time they get possession.

Apparently half the other teams play a 442 and destroy them in the midfield every game.

The technical issue I believe they are having with the implementation of the disemination of information down to the grass roots is trying to simplify the message. Most of the pure grass roots coaches are exactly as Chips described, a parent who has drawn the short straw. They know SFA about football and tactics, they have probably never played the game either and now they are coaching a group of children.

What the FFA needs to be developing is in essence a manual which can be distributed to whomever wants it to use as a coaching aid. It would need to be broken down to the bare bones, in other words the information would need to be presented in such a way that a person who had never coached football before or played football before could impart information to children who had never played football before.

If you think that is an easy undertaking then you need to be letting the FFA know how to do it.

The same aussie junior/youth coaching in this very same era (1999) didn't seem to mess with the careers of:

Emerton, Grella, Culina, Bresciano, Kewell, Cahill, Sterjovski et al.

At the rate we're going under the curent dutch model, the best we can hope for is perhaps the occasional Danny Invincible.

At under 16's you would expect the coach to have a junior license, I actually would put that above grassroots level. Grass roots football to me is kids under 12 being coached by parents at schools with absolutely zero involvement in the game other than the fact their kids want to play and if they didn't put their hands up to coach the team then there wouldn't be one.

These are the people the FFA are struggling to come to terms with how to get information to that is easy to understand, implement and relevent.

In all seriousness we do not need to get hung up between 433 v 442 v 541 v 352 etc etc.

There's a only a few measurable metres between any given system. If your oppo has you by the short and curlies your shape goes out the window 2 minutes after kickoff.

Only a deadset coaching noob would pin his entire coaching methodology on a paper system.

Your doing a fair old projection there Chips, any good stock market tips whilst the crystal ball is running hot? ;)

At rep/elite level, yes.

At district clogger park level, just be thankful that someone put their hand up for the job.

This group won't ever be doning the green and gold and pushing strayan sockah to new dizzy heights.



Would agree that this age group (between 6-11) is where we can get best bang for buck for our dosh. That said, the majoity of kids that play the game at this age have bugger all interest, latent talent, desire or ambition. In fact most take up sockah 'cos their parents believe it to be safer than the alternatives. Junior participation rates can me very misleading regarding the nation's 'apparent' love for the game.

If a player has any modicum of talent and ambition after the age of 12 he will progress through to rep/elite youth football where he will have a very decent chance of receiving better coaching, with or without some dutch monkey on $650k pa calling the shots.

Projections simply based on the squad of players in the current U20's and U23's.

Who are the shining lights?

Where are 98% of 'em currently playing?

Which one out of this lot do you think is the next Harry Kewell?

Furphy lapped up by the new dawn.

Perhaps some of the learned FFT folk can explain why players will develop better under a 433 system, as opposed to a 442, or 352 etc?

I won't be holding me breath for any plausible answers.

The point I'm making is that because Australia was beating these teams some years ago, it doesn't mean these teams have remained static in terms of development compared to us. In terms of world football. Asian and Africa nations are comparatively stronger than they were 25 years ago.
For the first time two Asian nations, Korea and Japan, reached the second round of the last World Cup.

In the last 20 years the Asian teams have been part of the Asian Confederation whilst we have been part of Oceania until the mid 2000s.

Over time the Asian Confederation senior, youth, junior teams have played in a tougher zone over a protracted period. Australia hasn't. We are starting to catch up, hopefully. They have developed more than us in the same period in terms of playing consistent competitive international football. They are more experienced.

If one reads Soccernomics by Simon Kuper, a country's success depends on population , experience and wealth. Many Asian nations have become more wealthy comparatively in a global context. They have been able to import foreign expertise in coaching.

They were gaining more in development from 1990 to 2003 when were were static in comparison. There is a residual effect which extrapolates to results.


At a FFA presentation a few years ago, embryonically Asian teams develop well. Historically they are stronger at junior levels than senior levels. They are fairly competitive at youth level. They have more Kaz Pataftas. In the past this development has slowed going into senior ranks.

A term used by O/S mercenary hacks to muddy the waters and buy time.

Personally one of the aims that football in Australia needs to have is for coaching courses to be so accessable that even at district clogger level the teams coach has a junior license. That is more likely to occur if grass roots coaches who become involved because of necessity are given the opportunity to actually get to know the game and enjoy it. If you have fun coaching your kids during their grassroots development and you want to keep being involved with them in sport when they get to highschool might you not keep learning to help them develop? Especially if the cost factor of the courses can be mitigated sufficiently to bring the cost/benefit coefficient to a level that the majority do not see an impediment.


The issue is that because of the poor level of coaching (due to a lack of support) at this level we miss out on people who may go on to represent Australia at the highest level. The lack of reasonable quality of instruction would be a big part of why so many kids drop out of the sport. Also a lot of those who do push on through do so because of the relative affluence of their parents and via the good luck of being known on a personal level by those in charge of said rep/elite courses.

What happens to those who have talent and ability but do not have the cash or contacts to go any further? The more opportunities that are present for their development and the earlier that good instruction is available the more likely that the genuinely exceptional will be able to shine and the more likely they are to continue within the sport.

None of them, there is only 1 Harry Kewell. I see zero benefit in comparing an apple to an orange to a kiwi fruit to a watermelon. Too many people seem to think that we are going to see a next *insert name here*. I would prefer us to be developing what we have rather than hoping for enough world class talent to magically appear that we can just forget about producing good to excellent players that can work within an asthetic style that represents Australia as a distinct footballing nation.

Hang on, hang on.

Playing in an inferior confederation(oceania)with your claim having inferior coaches we still produced more quality players per capita playing in the highest leagues in europe than all the asians combined.

Yep playing against the kuwaits,omans and qatars of the world is a step up from solomon islands and the fijis of the world but not much of a step.

You do realise that there have been first world mercenary coaches in these asian footballing backwaters for ever and a day.

Macca being at Southampton at 18 means fuck all! Ten years ago Carlos Gonzalez was on the books at Newcastle Utd, but do many people remember him?

Amini is on the cusp of being signed by Dortmund, he's only just turned 18 - so is that a fair enough comparison? Leckie has just signed for Monchengladbach, and there's a good chance of him getting first team football. As for others, like Antonis or Kantarovski, I'm sure if they were looking overseas, they would get plenty of suitors.