Does anyone want to share their experience/observations of these age groups.
The most popular formation is 332 and even 422 not many play 323, but then again do clubs inform coaches ?

I play
4121 with wing backs

---------------KEEPER
--------R DEF----------L DEF
R WING-----------------------L WING

-------------HOLDING MID

---------AT MID---------AT MID

------------------9


My wingbacks push high up the park.
Possession is the key to the game and quick recovery up front.
It is an extremely pressing attacking set up which results in a very high goal score.


I push the kids to win the ball at every kick off and every other restart. Ie goal kicks
Long kicks are not allowed neither are balls in the air




Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 06:50:14 AM

Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 06:52:45 AM

Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 06:55:49 AM

Do the vast majority of coaches genuinely care or have the knowledge to implement supposed leading edge tactical formations from a text book?

At this age group I loosely prefered 352 - player roles a significantly more higher priority than a zone on the park.

Little value in belting individual player expression out of the poor buggers in the pursuit of following the dutch bible.

I don't usually read any posts of yours anymore, but this one is amazing. Are you winding us up?

Krones and Dirk were talking about 9 a side formations. You responded with an eleven a side formation. Then you suggest a very abstract formation, 3-5-2, for an eleven a side.

How do you impart this on the training track?

What sequential stages do you use for the 3-5-2 for 10 year olds?

What shape midfield do you use in your 3-5-2?

This demonstrates no understanding of the age group's cognitive learning capabilities, whatsoever.

Thankfully you've retired from junior/youth coaching. You desperately need to do some updated FFA, or KNVB courses in Holland, to learn about young footballers' cognitive development. Yet you pontificate on others' programmes, rarely proffering any football programmes yourself.

Thankfully guys like Arthur, Krones, Dirk, Aussiesrus, Andy et al, are using some decent stuff to coach juniors/youth.

Go and show Han Berger, or our state FFA TD, what you would do with 10 year olds!!!!

Years ago when you were extolling the virtues of Frank Arok as a tactical coach, Bob Rizzi, who had played under Arok, said you really demonstrated lack of knowledge about football. With these 3-5-2 suggestions for ten year olds, it is hard to disagree.



Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 09:35:33 PM

I only used it once, as I've only played 9v9 once. I thought the FFA edict was 3-3-2. I did that then found it was 3-2-3.

I had two triangles with two strikers in a flat front two.


It is easier to set up 3-2-3 in three flat lines. Triangles are easily created when the team has possession of the ball.

Bob who?

FFS, decentric. :lol:

And you scratch your head often wondering why you get treated like a total doofus at every turn.

Seriously, WTF are you rabbiting on about. :lol:

I'd say this merely demonstrates the massive differences in player quality (and probably intellectual) between Sydney and Tasmania.

This is European teaching and learning practice.

Senior Aussie national coaches have been frustrated at a lack of A League players' understanding of different formations. Here you are trying to impart to 10 year olds what senior domestic professional players struggle to do with national coaches!!!!!

This is why Arnold and Verbeek preferred our European-based players.

Arnold and Postecoglou are value adding more sophisticated tactical practice to senior A League players.

Muscat, Corica, Veart, Tobin, Vidmar, Durakovic, all had KNVB training to bring Australia's A League youth teams into 21st century European practice.

I simply cannot believe that you think young Sydney players, even if elite, have this level of tactical understanding. If they did/do, why isn't it inculcated and assimilated as they progress to senior level?

You also have no idea of children's capabilities and learning development theory. I'm gobsmacked!!!

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 03:10:22 PM

Right up there with your best work. :lol:



Good grief, decentric.

Have you ever watched any of these blokes coach?

Tobin and Corica couldn't coach a choko vine to climb a tin carport. :lol:



Clearly your entire existance is based on theory.

I bet you keep a copy of the kama sutra on your bedside table.



I wouldn't doubt that for a picosecond.

This 3-5-2 was discussed in depth after I posed the 3-5-2 as a suitable formation for youth at the KNVB course.

KNVB coaches Derkson and Schans considered it totally inappropriate for any level of football, except for professional football teams. Rob Baan concurred. Kelly Cross was in the room and said nothing.

They argued that with the extraordinary amount of running required by the wide wing backs in the 3-5-2 shape, no team other than a professional team could be fit enough to cover the amount of ground necessary to keep the shape compact at all times. Even if it were plausible you have provided no sequential and incremental plan for players to learn it on the training track.

Yet here we have you extolling its merits as a useful formation on a national football forum. It is beyond the physical capabilities, and the conceptual abilities, of 10 year olds to play this formation properly.

I will give you Schans' email address, Rob Baan's email address and KNVB head office contact details to describe the 3-5-2 benefits to 10 year olds. You can also write to Han Berger telling him the salient advantages of playing 3-5-2 with 10 year olds.

They will all suggest you urgently need to acquire some developmental football theory to learn TIC, and apply it appropriately to all ages in an approved FFA course, or a KNVB course in the Netherlands.

My two co-coaches at FFE both previously used 3-5-2 as youth/junior formations. Sagely, they had the football intelligence to see the flaws in practice after I pointed out, via pre-eminent KNVB coaches, its failings for juniors/youth.
One of these guys has 35 years coaching experience. The other is a FFA C Licence holder and has played for Egypt and AEK Athens.

If these guys are intelligent enough to immediately see their flawed practices, why aren't you?

It really annoys me

Edit:No personal attacks on fellow forum users. Criticise the idea, not the person.

I suppose you have at least put up some football content in this post.](*,)






Edited by Joffa: 30/5/2011 05:52:40 PM

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 09:38:22 PM

Quite amusing reading your drivel here how it is apparently much much better to teach 8 out field players a system than 10 out field players. That's only two players diff, you demented old theorising numpty. :lol:

Sheesh.

Oh and FWIW any theoretical system you put on paper, or mark out with cones in the sheds and subsequently trot out onto the park can be torn into teeny weeny bits and pieces any time the oppo players or coach wish to take advantage of your teams individual weaknesses. But you knew that, didn't you?


Edited by judy free: 30/5/2011 04:09:51 PM

Edited by Joffa: 30/5/2011 05:53:27 PM

Great question chips
Should an U10’s coach go out to pick an opposition team to pieces or play a winning style of football that develops his own players?

An alternative, KNVB method, but you need to make your own decisions Krones, is this. Mark out the playing formation with the same coloured cones in an area 2m x 3m.

Mark out your formation exemplified in a 3-2-3 for 9 a side, or 4-3-3 or a with a one screener midfield triangle for 11v11.

Then make your players step on each cone. So that the whole team is in this small area. It is tactile or kinaesthetic. It helps most kids to understand the desired formation better. Using a board/clipboard can be too abstract.
At half time you can also demonstrate the opposite team's formation with different coloured cones. I've seen Ricky Herbert adopt this KNVB technique with Phoenix.

This can be done only a few metres away from the sideline.

What a coach should have been doing is using the match formation on the training ground.

Good luck.

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 06:01:29 PM

Using appropriate KNVB, or FFA, TIC methodology, simplify the game by making it more of a question of skill. The result is unimportant. The way they play is important and whether they enjoy the game or not. Development of players takes precedence over results.

Too many complex tactics on the training ground turns kids off.

Don't worry too much about opposition coaches' formations at under 10 level.

I never concern myself with the tactics or individual skills of my opponent’s players.
I never ever change my style of play for my opponent.
I play attacking, flowing, possession, play on the ground defending from the front, playing out from the back , using the width of the park, my keeper is only allowed to throw the ball and is a different kid each week.
I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.

What I do do is to watch what my players do in the game at try to correct that on training nights.
Ie last game I saw a player (C back) unable to cut and turning the ball inside so as to get on his good foot.
This training session I will cover step over’s, dribbling, some players will work on lofted passes (they faired poorly in the skills test) and some will work on cuts to the outside of the field and using both feet all will finish with a small sided game.

Forgive me if I sound arrogant but the style of football I wish to play is clear in my mind and it will look as close to the style barca play as I can make it. Those who say it is not possible to play like barca forget we are not playing against man u. I have spent three years getting these kids to play this way and encouraging them to always use their skills on the field and at futsal I expect HOPE to loose most of them to academies of football in 2 years time.
If I loose over half my team to academies in 2013 I will consider it a success.

Parents of skillful kids expect some reasonable results on the field. The secret is balance between development and winning.
.

How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.

cos i suppose they all play unstructured street football or equivalent round your way ?

you raise a good point , but round here the age groups have 3 ability bandings so you should expect some sort of coach knowledge for the upper bandings, so how would deal with it ?

All our games are played at the same centre so watching other teams is not hard.
I move players out of position and use substitutes to slow he score line.
It is hard however mainly due to the fact that the opposition lower their heads.

Eh?

Youv'e lost me.

I've never met a coach who has set out to do otherwise. :lol:

Edited by judy free: 30/5/2011 10:15:39 PM

Set my players in positions to win but not by too much and to develop areas of their game that need developing.
I look at the level of the oppersition not tactics or inderviduals.I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


But my style of play stays the same always.



Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 09:21:09 PM

In my case you know I will accept nothing else. I would and have rather lose than change it.

LIke many coaches, I've also put good players in defence and stopped them from advancing beyond the half way line.

I've also put them on the bench for lengthy periods. I've also played the weakest players in striking positions.

Another strategy I learnt from an junior association president is one I like, but the kids hate.

If they go 3-0 up, I ask for three passes before they shoot. Every time they score another goal, I lift the pass count by another one. I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes. This has sometimes galvanised the other team rather than dropping their heads.

If I've refereed, it is easier to control it. Kids I've coached have been really annoyed with me, but I've had good parents who have been very supportive. It has also fostered good relationships with other coaches.

The worst thing is when you are refereeing and see the despondent faces of the kids who've been on the end of some terrible hidings.

And your association referees allow you to do this?

Where did I say that?

Would be good if you could allow the other team more players on the park.
Less space and more pressure for your team.

I have been the referee, usually in the second half if we played weak teams.

The other team fielded the ref in the first half.


The only stakeholders who would have wanted to lodge a complaint would've been the kids from my team.

They wouldn't have known how to lodge a complaint either!!!

I'm not suere even the most supportive of parents would be happy with that, particularly with about 6 subs.

Oh I see what you mean. Let the opposition play all their players, like 4 extra.

Good idea, but the pitch becomes more crowded.

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 11:27:23 PM