Gregory Parker wrote:
Knowing the content of the advanced courses is one thing, coaching it to required standards is another. Coaches are like players, they need practice and development. [b]Our system is poor. The reliance is on the coach to educate him/herself then front up to a course and get pulled apart. The learning system is poor. Once you have paid and get the licence you are on your own. I can't remember when the last update course was run for Advance Licence holders. Imagine if we did this players. On top of this everything the FFA puts on is so expensive.


Again, nail on head, Gregory.

What I did in KNVB was a sound theoretical basis to put into practice. Given I am a trained teacher having taught all age groups from 4 -24 in lieracy, numeracy and thinking, plus PE, karate and drum teaching, I am pretty confident handling groups of kids and improving football coaching methodologies. It is what I have done as a paid job for 27 years plus.

Many coaches are not confident to self-educate. They have no ongoing discussion or feedback from other coaches on what they do on the training track.

In terms of FFA stringent criteria for coach accreditation, at FFE we have two coaches, C and yours truly, with the same qualifications as, and lower than, FFA Senior Licence and Youth Licence holders who bring players to FFE. They are wrapped to be observing different training ground paradigms (KNVB) and explicit technique instruction, they are not acquiring through state FFA.

The difference is that coach C and I have observed each other for few years on the training track. C has 30 years experience. I have a sound theoretical basis and training ground structures. We complement each other's skill set.

Coach C will probably undertake the C Licence to improve his kowledge of the 4-3-3 system and acquire a working knowledge of NC. From his perspective it is mainly political too, since FFA seem to be so keen to 'accredit' every coach.

What concerns me is that we may have accredited coaches from Brazil, France and Italy turning up in Australia, without a big profile, and being banned from coaching because they are deemed to lack FFA accreditation. What they have is world's best practice coaching methodologies, but because they aren't conversant in NC they can be sidelined as coaches - with local players missing out on excellent instructors.

State FFA just can't answer these questions adequately when we've put it forward to them in no uncertain terms

Edited by Decentric: 11/7/2011 02:31:47 PM

My FFE co-coach, C, elucidated this issue with the FFA state TD.

C has been involved with football for 37 years and has coached for 30 of them. He communicated to the state TD he is concerned about coaches completing courses, then doing no ongoing training. Then they learn nothing until the next course, whenever that may be.

Coach C, maintains:

Good coaches don't have to be qualified.

Qualified coaches don't necessarily make good coaches.




Coach C suggested to the state TD, that coaches can suffer because of no ongoing development. C also criticised FFA for doing nothing to scrutinise coaches on the training ground after they 've qualified. C also maintains FFA is only concerned about quoting numbers of coaches who have been trained recently. The state TD squirmed and moved uncomfortably in his chair and acknowledged the problem. I was in the same meeting.

To their credit, state FFA have tried to set up ongoing discussions/workshops for coaches on a monthly basis.

[i]Edited by Decentric: 10/7/2011 01:56:02 PM

[quote=Decentric][i.I beleive there is a new system coming where you can be a senior B licence or B youth licence holder.

?[/b][/i]


Thats whats happened in the UK.
The Fa have also bumped up the cost of courses, used to be able to get a "B" for 375 pounds.
Cost now over 2000. Guess what noone is taking the courses .

It's now a profitable arm for many FA's.

In straya's case they've massively uplifted many fees and costs - of course all funds now needed to supoort a four fold increase in FFA's HQ head count.

The massive costs for courses is bad news. State FFA are trying to use it as leverage for them to provide public liability for Football For Everyone. I argue my FFA Youth Licence is current to the end of the year. They hassle us to upgrade qualifications. Coach C may do a C Licence course in a few weeks. It coast $1600 and two weeks of time taken off work.

I think it is great that state FFA are training lots of Grass Roots and Junior licence holders. These cost little in terms of money and time. The target group is parents who have little prior knowledge about football.

National FFA set up the KNVB course certificate. FFA pocketed the revenue. Then at state branch level, they try to argue it has no relevance!!! A paradox if ever I've seen one. :roll:
My position is it is the only way they attracted 24 course participants for the KNVB course - is that it had recognition in the Australian football milieu. I was even told by one FFA official that KNVB had no relevance in Australia because many Australians don't know what it is!!!! I asked him to pass that on to Rob Baan and Han Berger.

I counter that if KNVB lacks recognition, how did they manage to attract 24 coaches, most as state staff FFA coaches, rep coaches, state coaches and state league coaches, to depart with an aggregated $50 000 for FFA coffers? I Moreover, I contend my training was from the primary source of the National Curriculum.

Already the feedback we are getting at FFE is that what we are doing challenges players more than state FFA coaching staff with their one offs. Even our first sessions with unknown players are considerably more challenging, according to three recently trained FFA youth licence holders.

I'm not anywhere near as cynical as you Chips (Judy), about FFA HQ, but I'm getting tired of defending the organisation as we meet more and more coaches/players from around the traps who are dissatisified with state FFA's level of support in visiting local clubs for ongoing coach education. State FFA have been unable/unwilling to provide balls, cones, poles, bibs for FFE.

The Sport and Recreation senior adviser to the minister, said that FFA state branch have been given $100 000 for elite training NTC (2% of players). The state FFA have also received $100 000 for grass roots football. The minister is asking the question, why can't FFA fund our public liability? Particularly given they have been granted $100 000 to do exactly what we are doing when they have full time staff. On the other hand we are providing something on a voluntary basis which is part of their charter?

It is easy to conclude from our contacts with FFA that it is a profit making organisation, which is a subsidiary of Frank Lowy's Westfield empire. Football development of players/coaches may be of less importance. :roll:

Edited by Decentric: 11/7/2011 02:07:00 PM

5-6 times an increase in costs. The FA have far less qualified coaches per capita than Germany, France, Spain and Holland too.

My degree of cynicism correlates directly with my experience and knowledge of FFA's inner workings.

You should, at the very least, acknowledge that I gave you a heads up on this issue many years ago.

You also need to keep firmly in mind that the FFA are sucking up amateur sockah dollars to keep the likes of Berger and his no mark chronies in mangoes.



Edited by judy free: 11/7/2011 04:53:43 PM

Over the years I've tried hard to support FFA.

The NC is a decided improvement on what existed before. Han Berger/Rob Baan have done a good job rewriting the curriculum.

Your cynicism has a degree of vindication though. It seems as if revenue raising and some employees simply carrying out their job description, with little interest in the genuine development of football, may be true to an extent.

So yes, Chips, to a certain degree, I'm agreeing with you. It doesn't mean that everything is bad about FFA though.

Chips and Decentric just agreed on something?


Fuck, we better locate that rip in the fabric of space-time fast bef-

What also shows is the limitations of the FFA and restricted budget of coaching due to several factors.
If the game is to progress in this country then the number of qualified AFC C, B & A coaches has to increase. Yes it is important to do these courses, coaching is a craft part of that is seeking knowledge participating in thses courses introduces new methodologies, contact with experienced instructors, contact with fellow coaches of similar standard.
On the other hand the level of funding going into coaching education is fairly average which may be affected by high wage costs at FFA HQ and covering huge losses of HAL franchises.

My view has been that better education for coaching is a cornerstone of improving the junior player pool, thus improving the game in this country.

Very true about education. But if the culture is that of who knows who, and clubs are unwilling to test the coaches they hire properly, then the game cannot be progressed and improved. In many instances a board (who are not coaches) will choose the coach based on politics over the advice of the High Performance manager or coaching director.

I am all for improved education standards but the clubs have to improve their standards of selection as well.

When KNVB visited Australia, Rob Baan, was quizzed about the exorbitant cost of FFA Advanced courses- C, B, A and Pro Licences. Whilst he, and Berger after him, contend Australian football coaches need more and better quality education, the cost of courses, coupled with the time taken off work, makes them astronomical in cost.
Baan argued that Australia needs to produce players of the ilk of Schneijder, Van Persie, Robben, etc. Baan maintains the massive monetary value of players of this quality would accrue enough revenue to dramatically reduce the cost of advanced licences.

As Gregory sagely points out, paying $4000 -$5000 doesn't for a B Licence upwards, doesn't mean a coach will gain employment. This is very pertinent. Also, if we extrapolate FFA B, A and Pro Licences to tertiary education, a few years ago one could gain one year of an Arts or Education degree for the same cost at an Australian university.
Australian university institutions have a far higher world ranking in the global tertiary education milieu, compared to FFA coaching licences in the world football milieu.

At least a KNVB, Clarefontaine or Coverciano licence, has world wide recognition as being quality practice. Perceptions of Australia's quality of football coaching education may change over time.

Edited by Decentric: 12/7/2011 01:59:50 PM

Again this is very true in the Tasmanian football milieu.

When a high profile split state league president sacked a coach half way through the season, under my pseudonym on here, I asked him what criteria he had sacked the coach on, on Tasmania's biggest football blog.

How did the tactical plans of the new coach supersede that of the old coach?

Which technical qualities of players would improve under the new coach?

Which training ground methodologies would the new coach bring to the senior team which were superior to the sacked coach? What ramifications would this have for the holistic technical direction of the club, clearly delineated in November?

What football qualifications did the members of the board have to make the decision to sack the old coach?

How did the long term plan over the next few years delineated at the public meeting last November, suddenly exclude the coach who was considered an integral part of the decision making process?

The decision maker (president) was incensed because he couldn't answer any of the above questions. He suffered ignominy.

Last night I had a look at the new coach's training ground practice. Currently, I'm evaluating a number of state league clubs training ground practice at senior level. I'm opening another thread on this topic.

By chance last night, I met yet another former NTC coach.

I assumed a number of these coaches are mates in the Australian coaching football fraternity. If half of what what he told me is true, it really is a very competitive world.

A number of ambitious coaches are competing for a limited number of jobs in Australia. It can be a roller coaster ride unless one manages to gain a development job - the state federations, regional development officers, AIS or NTCs.

Even then coaches have power bases determining which players move on.

It is a far better to have tertiary qualifications or a trade to earn an income!!!!:)

Over five years Chips has made many good points about football when he has chosen to engage constructively.:)

Ditto with Rabid (ECP).

When these guys choose to engage constructively they make useful comments in football discussion.

Edited by Decentric: 12/7/2011 06:09:57 PM

Totally agree, Arthur.

FFA say this too in principle. What they don't account for are well trained people outside FFA. Apparently in Serbia football coaching is a tertiary education course. If tertiary qualified Serbian coaches came here, their qualifications wouldn't be recognised by FFA. They would try to get them into FFA advanced courses to accrue revenue.

If this obsession with revenue by FFA doesn't cease, the organisation needs to be rationalised. If massive salaries are the problem, then other people need to be appointed at lower costs.

There are also many refugees and economically disadvantaged players who want to play football, but can't afford to pay registration fees.

I've read that in Brazil something like 90% of the coaches at professional and semi-pro clubs (both first team and juniors) have university degrees which are usually degrees majoring in football coaching or a PE degree and then an honours year or masters in football. The other 10% are usually ex-international players like Dunga. So you could have someone coaching the under 12s who has a masters degree in football coaching and 4 or 5 years continuously studying to be a coach. Meanwhile our kids get coached by dads who do a weekend course or state/regional coaches who forked out a few grand to do a 2 week course and then are lucky enough to know the right people.

Welcome to the forum, FG.
:)

I've seen you post somewhere before on the internet, but I can't remember where.

In Tassie the state TD and his next in charge have trained 300 Grass Roots coaches and 92 Junior coaches in the last few months. This is excellent for those Mums and Dads who want some direction.

Our football school, FFE, is designed as a model for coaches to observe weekly training sessions on an ongoing basis, amongst other things.

Re; the culture of who knows who this appears to happen more at a State Fedration level where here in Victoria there is a lot of angst regarding part time and full time coaching appointments which a difficult to get and turnover of staff is slow. At a Senior Club level doesn't seem too important, if a coach manges to stay at a club for longer than 2 years he would be entitled to long service leave.:d
While at junior level there is a hotch potch of coaching outcomes, favourable and unfavourable, the common denominator being the lack of football experience on club committees and a lack of funds for quality coaching especially at participatory junior clubs.

I wish we had High performance manager or coaching director at our junior and senior clubs but this again happens at Federation level and agree politics and who you know seem to work a treat.

Just like Paul Lonton in queensland.
How he keeps his job is beyond me?

[quote=ArthurMy view has been that better education for coaching is a cornerstone of improving the junior player pool, thus improving the game in this country.[/quote]

I have always believed selectors are a major link in youth coaching.
Coaches will train what they think Selectors want to see.

The coaches up here spend hours trying to anticipate what selectors will be looking for, especially in their own sons.

So better and more precisely vocal selectors are the better the coaching will become.
Ie I heard a selector say about how coaches had not produced an 8 or 11 the only problem was no one heard it but me.