The Orange Army. (Brisbane Roar Official Thread)


The Orange Army. (Brisbane Roar Official Thread)

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Waz
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Jasea - 9 Dec 2019 12:22 PM
Defence was terrible. The left side was exposed over and over again. Courtney-Perkins and Powell are too young and inexperienced. OToole and Reardon are better options

When your defence is exposed over and over again I’d look to the midfield for the reason why. 

On saturday night sydney olayers we’re able to turn out if a midfield challenge in numerous occasions putting the “tackler” behind them and free space in front of them. With the runners SFC have any defence would get exposed. 
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Waz - 9 Dec 2019 12:38 PM
Jasea - 9 Dec 2019 12:22 PM

When your defence is exposed over and over again I’d look to the midfield for the reason why. 

On saturday night sydney olayers we’re able to turn out if a midfield challenge in numerous occasions putting the “tackler” behind them and free space in front of them. With the runners SFC have any defence would get exposed. 

Midfield were poor but a good defender will anticipate what is about to happen and react accordingly. Courtney Perkins was exposed numerous times and even stopped at one point not tracking properly. He and Powell are good 17 year old players but that doesn't mean they're Aleague standard. There are better defenders in the group and fowler should be playing them.

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Any one listen to Andy Harper post the Adelaide game yesterday? Simply said foreign recruitment not good enough, something I noticed in the first 45 minutes of the season. Not tactical adjustments can fix this mess. Robbie CAN coach and has shown he is bald enough to make adjustments mid game etc, but no coach could win consistently with this group of players. At the same time it is his own fault for recruiting these players. Probably not even worth putting in the youngsters, could destroy there confidence, a torrid remainder of a season coming up and were not even past half way yet.
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Jasea - 9 Dec 2019 12:58 PM
Waz - 9 Dec 2019 12:38 PM

Midfield were poor but a good defender will anticipate what is about to happen and react accordingly. Courtney Perkins was exposed numerous times and even stopped at one point not tracking properly. He and Powell are good 17 year old players but that doesn't mean they're Aleague standard. There are better defenders in the group and fowler should be playing them.

I’m not saying you didn’t notice things that can be improved with these players, just that the midfield is part of the defence and when it fails the defence fails no matter how good the back line is. 

In terms of O’Toole, I doubt he’ll play first team football again at Roar, he’s been tried and failed badly. 
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sirhcdobo - 9 Dec 2019 10:15 AM
Waz - 9 Dec 2019 7:11 AM

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the personality thing. There are a few in the squad that have not bought into what RF is trying to do.  There are also quite a few in the squad that i really question the mentality of. Players like DWH, Mauk and Inman clearly have drive and a love of the game, it is clear from everything they do that they has passion for the game and want to get better and win. Compare that to players like AAH or Inman who dont seem to care who they are playing for or if they win or if they are getting better. that sort of mentality can kill a squad. Even one player just doing his own thing when everyone else is trying to implement what the coach is doing can kill a team.

of course you dont have to live and breath the game, but you have to have the drive to do everything 100% and really want to do exactly what the coach is trying to do. broich was probably the best example of that, he loved a lot of stuff outside of football but he always wanted to do everything at his best and even with dud coaches like Franz and JA he was the on field coach making sure that everyone was doing what the gaffer set them out to do. 

Ange showed that a champion team will beat a team of champions, his recruiting was of average a-league players (plus one or two absolute gems) but they all gave 100% and all were pulling in the same direction. i just dont see that with this group. I really wonder how many of those players on the weekend were pissed off that they got towled 5-1? 

Agreed. I think there’s something in this. 

I hear what Harps is saying but it doesn’t explain why Roar have been able to get in top of Glory, Victory, Adelaide and WSW for large parts of those games? 

And if theres players I’m wishing weren’t in this squad right now it’s Mauk, O’Neill and Inman as Australians and Holloway and Gillesphey as visa players. 
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Waz - 9 Dec 2019 2:31 PM
sirhcdobo - 9 Dec 2019 10:15 AM

Agreed. I think there’s something in this. 

I hear what Harps is saying but it doesn’t explain why Roar have been able to get in top of Glory, Victory, Adelaide and WSW for large parts of those games? 

And if theres players I’m wishing weren’t in this squad right now it’s Mauk, O’Neill and Inman as Australians and Holloway and Gillesphey as visa players. 

Because other than SFC the rest of the teams are as shit as each other
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AnthonyC - 9 Dec 2019 4:38 PM
Waz - 9 Dec 2019 2:31 PM

Because other than SFC the rest of the teams are as shit as each other

lol that unfortunately is a worrying alternative 😂
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When the system keeps changing and players supposed to get forward for attacks and then back for turnovers,its no surprise the wheels are falling off.The same thing happened with JA.
As a fan i cant follow whats supposed to be happening.Sometimes there appear to be two,three ,four or five at the back.
Against MC when JMac was on fire and again against SFC , when there were fast counter attacks,the defenders were cut to pieces.
Nobody appeared ro know what to do.
It really looked like professional against amateurs.




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crimsoncrusoe - 9 Dec 2019 4:53 PM
When the system keeps changing and players supposed to get forward for attacks and then back for turnovers,its no surprise the wheels are falling off.The same thing happened with JA.
As a fan i cant follow whats supposed to be happening.Sometimes there appear to be two,three ,four or five at the back.
Against MC when JMac was on fire and again against SFC , when there were fast counter attacks,the defenders were cut to pieces.
Nobody appeared ro know what to do.
It really looked like professional against amateurs.




That’s exactly how it’s meant to work in a 3-5-2. 

All formations are fluid. A 4-4-2 becomes 4-2-4 in attack, theyre not a rigid thing. 

Theres no doubt that 3-5-2 is not working for Fowler - why is the question. 



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Waz - 9 Dec 2019 2:31 PM
sirhcdobo - 9 Dec 2019 10:15 AM

Agreed. I think there’s something in this. 

I hear what Harps is saying but it doesn’t explain why Roar have been able to get in top of Glory, Victory, Adelaide and WSW for large parts of those games? 

And if theres players I’m wishing weren’t in this squad right now it’s Mauk, O’Neill and Inman as Australians and Holloway and Gillesphey as visa players. 

You don’t really like anyone do you lol. 
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notarobot - 9 Dec 2019 5:26 PM
Waz - 9 Dec 2019 2:31 PM

You don’t really like anyone do you lol. 

I like Holloway but he seems incapable of 90 minutes. He also looks like a player who’s unsure of his best position which could be either 4, 9 or a 10. 
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I think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place.

Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits:
Neville - average/lower than average A League defender
Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half).
Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. 
McGing - squad player at best
O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him.
Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory
Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player
Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player.
ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals)
O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams.
Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though.



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Any chance of Lachy Jackson back?

He's better than what the Roar have now.


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hames_jetfield - 9 Dec 2019 9:47 PM
Any chance of Lachy Jackson back?

He's better than what the Roar have now.

Won’t be no changes , same 11 this week v WU 
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It seems to me Roar have already got to the stage where half the team doesnt care enough about defending collectively and thinks its the backs and DM that do that dirty work.
I dont see any forwards busting a gut to defend.
The backs were completely outclassed.But received no help from the forwards,who all were ordinary.Defence normally starts at the front and there was little of that.
The space in midfield was gaping.
Next week we are home again and it will be hot.So WU will have to work hard to win the game.They have enough class.But with older players are prone to soft games.

But  what is wrong with our  team on away games?Against SFC they were always going to lose.But conceding 5 ,shows a lack of effort.
Two years of absolute crap!


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crimsoncrusoe - 9 Dec 2019 10:49 PM
It seems to me Roar have already got to the stage where half the team doesnt care enough about defending collectively and thinks its the backs and DM that do that dirty work.
I dont see any forwards busting a gut to defend.
The backs were completely outclassed.But received no help from the forwards,who all were ordinary.Defence normally starts at the front and there was little of that.
The space in midfield was gaping.
Next week we are home again and it will be hot.So WU will have to work hard to win the game.They have enough class.But with older players are prone to soft games.

But  what is wrong with our  team on away games?Against SFC they were always going to lose.But conceding 5 ,shows a lack of effort.
Two years of absolute crap!


I'm remembering the work that Brandon Borello put in when he was at Brisbane, both in attack and defence.


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As is now becoming a tradition for Roar home games, storms are predicted for Friday night after weeks of no rain. 
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Mello-D - 10 Dec 2019 8:23 AM
As is now becoming a tradition for Roar home games, storms are predicted for Friday night after weeks of no rain. 

Almost unbelievable.

I think they’re going to pay heavily at the gate on Friday, 7-8k unfortunately and worse if it does rain. 

Theyre running the kids go free thing for Miniroos which last year put 5k on the gates of Saturday games but don’t think it’ll have anywhere near that effect on a Friday game, even on the day schools break for summer. 
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Keeper66 - 9 Dec 2019 6:27 PM
I think RF has probably shown that he has some ability as a coach, in terms of recognising the need for changes and making changes during games, but I really think it comes down to the lack of quality in the players he has. Of course RF is largely responsible for many of these players being there in the first place.

Lookjng at some of this seasons recruits:
Neville - average/lower than average A League defender
Aldred - most (if not all) starting CB’s at other clubs are better players, he is too slow, has poor touch and not very mobile (and is a bit of a thug at times). Certainly not good enough for a visa player (mind you, what does it say about the bottom half of SPL, given he was a regular at Motherwell for the last season and a half).
Gillesphey - everyone agrees he is not near the standard required. 
McGing - squad player at best
O’Neill - looked promising when at CCM, but has been disappointing this season. I hope this is due to the poor quality of those around him.
Ingham - never more than an A League squaddie at either Roar or Victory
Inman - hasn’t shown very much, another English lower league recruit who hasn’t shown (at least yet) that he is at the standard of an acceptable A League player
Holloway - looks ok on occasion, but the fact that he appears incapable of playing any more than a half of football means he is a poor choice as a visa player.
ROD - not good enough, has been MIA for most games (despite getting most of Roars goals)
O’Shea - undoubtably the best recruit, but still no more than average quality as far as the A League is concerned. Wouldn’t be an automatic starter in the majority of the A League teams.
Crocombe - at least he has put pressure on Young, and has probably made Young a better player with his feet. Would not be a starting keeper in any other A League side though.



Depressing because it's accurate.

Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic

In a resort somewhere

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paulc - 10 Dec 2019 8:42 AM
Keeper66 - 9 Dec 2019 6:27 PM

Depressing because it's accurate.

Anything RF tries with that lot is akin to shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic

I disagree with that.

I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. 

Its not true.

What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. 

Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. 

Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. 

Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. 
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Waz - 10 Dec 2019 8:53 AM
paulc - 10 Dec 2019 8:42 AM

I disagree with that.

I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. 

Its not true.

What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. 

Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. 

Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. 

Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. 

First priority is having a blend of players that can offer different elements to the game. Not necessarily better players, although that would help greatly.

In a resort somewhere

Edited
6 Years Ago by paulc
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paulc - 10 Dec 2019 9:01 AM
Waz - 10 Dec 2019 8:53 AM

First priority is having a blend of players that can offer different elements to the game. Not necessarily better players, although that would help greatly.

Nothing wrong with better players, don’t get me wrong, just saying that coaches should not be let off the hook because they don’t have them. 

Fowler is sticking with a game plan and formation that at best is hit n miss, at worst as it was on Saturday an open door to opponents (at least for 45 minutes). 

Theres no no way he can finish 1/2 now but 3rd place is not out of reach - there’s nothing special above him bar the possible exception of Adelaide who have developed a habit of winning games they probably shouldn’t. 
Edited
6 Years Ago by Waz
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The big problem after the SFC game is that the players have clearly lost belief in the coach and or themselves.
Once you concede 5 in a game ,i dont see anyway back.Thats now the bad benchmark.To the players,mentally,2 or 3 now will seem okay.

At the start of the season the players believed in the coach and toughed out games to give Roar the best defence going into the MC game.After that game we conceded 3.But still won.That set the bad benchmark.So the following week we conceded 2.Now we have conceded 5.
From now on we will certainly average over 2 goals a game conceded.There are certainly teams capable of scoring a lot against a team that has a fragile  defence,away from home.


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crimsoncrusoe - 10 Dec 2019 11:32 AM
The big problem after the SFC game is that the players have clearly lost belief in the coach and or themselves.
Once you concede 5 in a game ,i dont see anyway back.Thats now the bad benchmark.To the players,mentally,2 or 3 now will seem okay.

At the start of the season the players believed in the coach and toughed out games to give Roar the best defence going into the MC game.After that game we conceded 3.But still won.That set the bad benchmark.So the following week we conceded 2.Now we have conceded 5.
From now on we will certainly average over 2 goals a game conceded.There are certainly teams capable of scoring a lot against a team that has a fragile  defence,away from home.


I dont know whether that is the case or will happen but that’s certainly my fear too 
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Waz - 10 Dec 2019 8:53 AM
paulc - 10 Dec 2019 8:42 AM

I disagree with that.

I think because of the prevalence of AFL and NRL where they have access to the worlds best players in their codes, the thinking translates in to football where - maybe not the worlds best players - the feeling is you need better players than your opponents. 

Its not true.

What you need is a squad that is fit, organised, motivated and has an appropriate game plan for the combined ability of the players within it. 

Fowler should be able to organise these players to make the sum total of the players more effective than the individuals within it. 

Leicester City are doing just that in England right now and football history is full of teams like them. 

Signing “better players” so I can be a “better coach” is right out of the John Aloisi coaching manual. It’s bollocks - Fowler needs to do his job and so far, he isn’t. 

While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem.

I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind).
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Keeper66 - 10 Dec 2019 1:39 PM
Waz - 10 Dec 2019 8:53 AM

While I agree that good coaches are those who can organise and use their individual players qualities so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, there is still a requirement to have players of a certain level to start with, that level being dependent on the strength of the competition. My contention is that Roar have very few players who approach that (A League) level, and in particular not achieving that level with the imports is a significant problem.

I don't agree with the Leicester analogy, they have a number of players of class who would get a gig at most other sides at the moment (Schmeichel, Vardy, Maddison, Chilwell immediately come to mind).

I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. 

Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ...

So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). 

If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. 

so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). 

And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. 

Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place

And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. 

And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a  good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. 



Edited
6 Years Ago by Waz
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Waz - 10 Dec 2019 2:02 PM
Keeper66 - 10 Dec 2019 1:39 PM

I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. 

Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ...

So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). 

If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. 

so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). 

And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. 

Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place

And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. 

And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a  good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. 



The A- League is not better than League One your Delusional, if you think that. 
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90 Minutes - 10 Dec 2019 2:39 PM
Waz - 10 Dec 2019 2:02 PM

The A- League is not better than League One your Delusional, if you think that. 

(I think you’re replying to me). 

Its tough comparing leagues plus you you have to factor in the squad size and cap of the HAL sides but I wouldn’t say we’re better than League One and I don’t think there’s anything to be ashamed of. 

In terms of drama, excitement and entertainment the HAL can and often is top-drawer which will do for now. 
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Waz - 10 Dec 2019 2:02 PM
Keeper66 - 10 Dec 2019 1:39 PM

I’ve struggled with a few people’s assertions that the A League is somehow better quality than League One in England, we’re not. 

Its an Aussie thing, we can’t accept things for what they are we have to be “the best at it” ...

So Roars recruits from League One/SPL are about the level of the A League. In theory better because they’re used to 50+ season games and scrapping (none of which seem evident though to be fair). 

If the A League were better than League One standard at say Championship level then it would put Korean, Japanese, and Chinese clubs at EPL level such is the gap in quality between them and the HAL. 

so lets get over ourselves, the A Leagues not a higher standard than League One so those players can fit in nicely (and we can still enjoy it for what it is!). 

And theres enough evidence of that from this season - Roar have only been outclassed once by a side who have a stable coaching team, a stable style of play, a stable playing group and confidence flowing through the club ..... meanwhile Roar have a new coaching team, 16 new players, a new playing style and are a club bereft of confidence. 

Other than that Roar have been in games all season and remain just 5 points off third place

And when you look at the first half goals conceded vs SFC, all three started in midfield when Roar failed to pressurise the ball carrier and block the passing lane - O’Neil, Mauk and Inman all have the ability to do that ... they just didn’t. That’s not a quality thing, that’s just shit football. 

And okay, Leicester might be a bad example for you - but you get my point that coaches can assemble squads for a fraction of the price/quality others do and get them to perform - Clough in his early years at Derby and Forest, Wimbledon ... I’m not sure there’s a  good HAL example but Amors Adelaide comes close. 



At no point did I assert that the A League is a better quality then League One. My opinion is that the individual players that have been recruited (the overseas players with basically with a mix of League One/Two experience, plus the Australian players) have not proven so far to be at the general level of what I would class as a "good" player in the A League, let alone a standout player. To be blunt, most so far have been poor. And while a good coach might make a good team out of average players, it is a different question to make a good team out of poor players, even with maybe one or two average ones thrown in.
I'm sure that there is a considerable number of League One players who would be hits in the A League, but certainly not all of them. And when you look at the players RF has recruited from overseas, apart from possibly O'Shea they don't have records as reasonably high quality League One players. Certainly from what I have seen so far, only O'Shea is at the level of a consistent A League starter at a mid-level A League team.


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The coaches role is where we end up more than where we start.

'Potential' is the word that is missing from much discussion and many peoples' perspectives.

No doubt the ones opposed to the players at basically every level will say 'they have no potential to improve' but what is the point of a coach? To fine tune a bunch of good players? No it isn't. Yes, they pick players they think have the potential to do what they want done.

Their role is to build a squad that by the end, when everything gets tallied, is playing quality football then.

Honestly ask yourselves if you think you have seen the absolute best that each individual can produce. Then ask yourself if you think you have seen the best they can combine.

The question is, how can Robbie get them there? Does he have what it takes now or does he have the potential to develop his skills by season's end?

I can look at the team in a positive light.
I can hope that Robbie brings home the bacon.
I can certainly give him a lot more time to get a new team working without bagging him and the team every week.
I do see the potential in this team.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

GO


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