I was wondering when this would be published on here.

Really good article from the 442 iPad version.




What do you think about the FourFourTwo article The Green & Gold Future?
FFA technical director Han Berger explains the progress of our National Curriculum.

Have your say.

“Nationally, there is now a clear pathway for talented boys, in which the various steps are logically linked,” says Berger. “Access to any of these programs should not be money-driven – it should be about every talented kid getting the opportunity to enter these programs.”

Great quote.

Nothing more than a collection of worn out cliches aimed squarely at the clueless.

However, should keep him in his $650k pa gig for the foreseeable future.

Well worth the money Chips, well worth the money.

Seriously?

I think you're deluded if you think the grassroots system was better before he came along.

I'd much rather shell out for the prevention rather than the 'cure'.

The other thing I notice Chips is that he holds the same opinion that you do on private elite academies... should I start to draw a connection here? 8-[

I trust you have intimate knowledge of the "system" both now and 20 years ago?

I suspect you don't, hence your silly comment re "pathways".

Edited by judy free: 16/12/2011 02:00:43 PM

i got to say that this article is on the money here...

Great Article, it definetely puts some doubters into persepective that its not doom or gloom!

Edited by Barca4Life: 16/12/2011 06:09:45 PM

Ah 'Chips Rafferty', where would Oz football be without the likes of him? Considering that people of his mindset were in charge of the game for 50+ years and stuffed things up every which way, I don't think the answer needs stating...

What Berger and co. are doing across the board/nationwide is nothing short of groundbreaking for us - it's only a shame it couldn't have been implemented years ago. The proof will be in the results, and they should by all rights leave anything that's been done here before for dead!

Just to clarify, when I said 'results' above I meant in terms of the better quality of players we'll churn out :)

LOL, please drop me a note when Berger produces his first Kewell, Viduka or Cahill.

Fanboy naivety is always good for a larf.

i agree our depth of quality has slipped dramatically in our kids NZ perform better than us now in junior levels wtf how is that so.

This article is so ridiculous and out of touch with reality. I could write 3 pages of what's wrong with it but I will just mention a few.

Geez where does one start?¿?¿?

Why are West Ham (Galaxy Academy) See FFT article, and many other top global clubs like manchester city, stoke, Leeds, (Australasian Soccer Academy) Celtic Rangers, (CSI Schofields Academy) just to name a few aligning themselves with private academies if they weren't any good? It appears to me that reputable academies are being viewed more highly than the FFA system otherwise these top clubs would not have a pathway to their clubs via these academies. I think Berger needs to get around and open his eyes a bit more about some privately run academies. Sure not all academies are worth the money but then there are some that are making fantastic opportunities for players that the FFA's flawed system let's slip through the cracks. And in my opinion they are very big cracks!

Berger might be interested to learn that Kerem Bulut also attended a private academy as have other A-League players Mitchell Duke and Kabsy Appiah (Central Coast Mariners) and around 15 NSW Premier/Super League players just this year alone also attend a private academy (ASA). Many of whom were playing park football out of the system 12-24 months ago. Just how did they get this good? It wasn't Bergers FFA system that's for sure because the FFA system is not available to them.

Why also is it OK to say failure at world cup level for youth is an option. That's like saying yeah ok they are crap now compared to the rest of the world but it's ALL GOOD these players will pawn in the seniors world cup. Nothing like hedging your bets 10 years in advance when he won't be around to cop the kick in arse for it. Tell Diego Maradonna who won the u/20 world youth cup with argentina then the world senior cup that failure back then was an option!! He would split his sides in awe of that comment.

So where do players go when they don't make the political buddies of FFA identification process? I've seen first hand how this matey/buddy selection process works. It's seriously flawed and corrupt. According Berger they shouldn't pay academies to improve their kids skills? I'd like to know why. Because the local park mum n dad footy coach isn't going to lift their skills levels from park football to selection in NSWPL or NSWLSL sides. It's the reputable private academies and NSWPL/NSWSL clubs that offer services in this area. What's wrong with parents giving their kids the best opportunites they can afford? If all parents had the same view as Bergers system parents wouldn't be sending their kids to private educational schools if they weren't topping the states report marks. The bottomline is parents do whatever they can within their means to give their kids the best opportunities possible. If parents don't get their kids into one private school or university they will find another school or university by which to achieve the same goals.

If I remember correctly Les Murray was ripping apart the NSW elite system because a talented 10 year old lads parents refused to be part of the project 22 system because the lads talents were in no way attributed to project 22 and felt his skills would be compromised by the said system.

I could find serious flaws with a lot more of this article but that will do for starters and i've just scratched the surface. It appears the view of Berger is to turn football here into a strict body controlled entity where natural talent and opportunities become even further limited. It stinks of a dictatorships flawed vision.

His whole article in fact is one big contradiction of himself and the system he promotes while discrediting other systems he obviously knows nothing about. It's FFA's way or the highway!! Very limited and sad to read.

What next...It will be OK for the senior team to fail at future world cups because Australia is in development? We had to wait 32 years for a world cup qualification and if we go back to it's ok to fail then we are not moving forward in my opinion. We are going backwards...Even our national coaches won't pick players to represent Australia unless they have played and been trained outside of Australia's FFA system! That's what they think of FFA's curriculum!! It's Rubbbbbish!!

This is all well and great to say parents shouldn't be paying money to private academies when the parents are the ones paying Bergers wages by way of association fees then having it pissed up by a flawed cracked system. Good one Berger I can see my kids fees that are paid to you by way of wages will result in failure is an option for this countries footballing future.

Oman 1 V Australia 0. Australia drops 2 spots in the FIFA rankings *Sigh* More cracks starting to appear...Can't wait for the full effect flow on. *NOT*

At the end of the day when players trial overseas, clubs don't care who's curriculum, club or academy the player attends. It's what the player can do on the park is the only skills clubs care about.

Bedankt Berger. Dat is niet ernstig. Wie wil er spelen 4-3-3 en zij krijgen bereikt. Ack!

Ik heb geleerd van sommige van de beste Nederlandse spelers in de wereld en een top-20 marktdeelnemer in de wereld in 2 verschillende spelletjes, maar wat is er gedaan hier is heel slecht voor Australië de toekomst van het voetbal.



Edited by Aussiesrus: 17/12/2011 10:53:25 AM

Now, if you could have only refrained from your standard Basha BJ's for a mo', that just may have threatened to be a half decent read.

It all goes hand in hand. The flawed system is creating private academies to spring up everywhere and top clubs overseas to look at other options besides FFA's flawed system which sees private academies and NSWPL/NSWSL and even NSW div 1 sides as a prefered option for future talent. This is really a vote of no confidence in FFA's system by quite a few overseas clubs.

The system does not address something which is core to Australian football and that is the multicultural aspect and the benefits different cultures bring to football. It's the dutch system or the highway. Geez we have stuff all dutch people owning and running football clubs here in Australia but we are swamped with their coaches now taking the pay cheque but delivering very little results. The top 2 clubs for the last 2 seasons are CCM (Graham Arnold - Australia) and Brisbane Roar (Ange Postecoglou - Australia) and none are dutch.

I have a lot of respect for the dutch system but it is suitable only for the dutch. Even the dutch think our system is crap otherwise we would have more than just one or two Socceroo's in the dutch first league, Australia is far more diverse in it's multiculturalism and we should be harnessing these benefits. Not culling it and drawing a straight line.

We have aligned ourselves with a Dutch system and the Dutch have never won a senior mens world cup! The only countries that consistantly win world cups are Italy, Germany, Argentina and Brazil. These are the main systems we should be looking at and modifying to suit our culture.

Also Berger bags out the EPL's academies as light years behind the Dutch and Spanish. The EPL is considered the home of professional football throughout the world. Spain has only ever won one world cup and holland none. I think Berger has been spending too much time in the Dutch cafe's eating fractured fairytale cakes and passively smoking the local weed.

As we can see the dutch system produces chokers.

Year Winner V Runner-Up
1930 Uruguay V Argentina 4 - 2
1934 Italy V Czechoslovakia 2 - 1
1938 Italy V Hungary 4 - 2
1950 Uruguay V Brazil 2 - 1
1954 West V Germany Hungary 3 - 2
1958 Brazil V Sweden 5 - 2
1962 Brazil V Czechoslovakia 3 - 1
1966 England V West Germany 4 - 2
1970 Brazil V Italy 4 - 1
1974 West Germany V Netherlands 2 - 1
1978 Argentina V Netherlands 3 - 1
1982 Italy V West Germany 3 - 1
1986 Argentina V West Germany 3 - 2
1990 West Germany V Argentina 1 - 0
1994 Brazil V Italy 0 - 0
1998 France V Brazil 3 - 0
2002 Brazil V Germany 2 - 0
2006 Italy V France 5 - 3
2010 Spain V Netherlands 1 - 0

I also spoke with the lad from ASA/Sydney Olympic last night and he been signed to attend the Manchester City Academy (All expenses paid) until he is 18 due to his hatrick against burnley and hatrick against wales and scoring against everton etc. The other lad has been signed to stokes academy for 1 year and he was from an NSWSL side I am told. These are just 2 examples of the FFA's flawed system and top players slipping through it's flawed cracks. I'm sure this is only the tip of the iceberger which appears to be floating upside down.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 18/12/2011 05:30:48 AM

"LOL, please drop me a note when Berger produces his first Kewell, Viduka or Cahill"

Oh I will Chips, but first how about you take your name off your shoulder (snigger) and the stick out of your ar$e...

You need to remember that Berger only has to convince a rower and an AFL dude of his worth.

As long as these two nobbies are content with the view that SSG's, 433 and a PDF will deliver player dev prosperity then who am I to argue.

FFA = train wreck.

Quote button, use it.

Dill.

I nearly forgot that you think cahill is the best player playing in the world.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I chose a race horse and you pick a donkey.

Not best, but favourite (at the time, which was a few years ago).

My apologies for taking an interest in strayan developed players.

Edited by judy free: 19/12/2011 01:37:31 PM

I'm using the Comment box below the article, hence no quote button, Chips you 'dill'...

I'd put it to you that in your ideal world, you'd be FFA Technical Director having 7y/o kids play nothing but 11v11 bullsh*t hoofball...umm that's what AFL is for!

Step aside with some semblance of grace if you *really* want Oz football to succeed and let Berger do his thing. Jealousy is a curse!

I'll think about it and get back to you in the morning.

aussiesrus are you aware that Berger has the same opinion as you as to the number of spots available in the elite pathway and the level of talent recognition that occurs currently within Australia?

Yes mate I am. But what is he doing about it?

I gave him a flogging with what I think is wrong with his views. I suppose I should be fair and give him praise with what is right with it. Been a bit busy lately...

Edited by Aussiesrus: 23/12/2011 12:27:03 AM

It starts when kids are between five and roughly 10 years-old with the ‘Discovery Phase’, where youngsters should simply “play football in a natural way”. “At this stage, there is little need for ‘coaching’,” says Berger. “Mimicking the ancient situation of street football is the best you can do. Many coaches make the mistake to structure training too much at this age. Just let these young kids play and discover what they can and cannot do with a ball. The game is the best teacher at this age, that’s why Brazilian and African players are technically so good: not because of their ‘system’ but because they’ve developed naturally.”



This is an interesting point.


I've always thought it is good to let kids develop in a fairly unstructured way from age 5-10.

That is until we were confronted with heaps of players with poor technique at Football For Everyone school.

Also, we've scrutinised many refugee players who've learnt on the streets of Africa and Asia. What has often occurred is that players are very one foot reliant and have bad habits which need correcting.

A few years ago I had a girl training with a rep team, because her cousin was in it. She had never played before. She received correct instruction right from the first time she kicked a ball. She learnt receiving with good footwork, juggled for five minutes at each training training, plus learnt body swerves, Matthews Cut, inside to inside of the foot dribbling, passing with the correct angle of the non-kicking fot, heading, etc. She also played a lot of 1v1 drills and SSGs, as well as 4v4 SSGs and 7v7 SSG shape incremental work.

She may have had 25 000 touches at training over the course of the season. We struggled to find a club for her until half way through the season. She practicsed what she learnt at rep training in the school playground at recess and lunch every game in free play SSGs. Her positional play and game sense was pretty bad, but she played an integral part in her team's success with a good first touch, dribbling and passing technique.

Like the refugees, even in England, where many coaches don't perceive a need for training courses and books, I worked overtime with a relative who had deficient technique, yet he was playing in a junior premier league.

I think it is important to coach some basics whenever a footballer starts, to stop bad habits developing. These have to be unlearnt at a later stage. It is time wasted.



Edited by Decentric: 29/12/2011 11:07:33 PM

Berger's FFA system in theory is a good system for players in it, but so few players have access to it.

A Kiwi cricket commentator, Brian Waddle, recently was discussing on the ABC how NZ cricket had also put all their efforts into coaching just a few supposedly elite players, which he so strongly disagreed with.

Many suburban teams are crying out for some FFA staff coaching assistance at their clubs, but FFA is too busy with a few elite players. The elite players are often not allowed to play or train with their clubs, schools or play futsal.

Berger explains that while the purpose of football is obviously about winning the game, at a younger age it is important to teach kids the proper game skills, which will give them a better chance to be successful when they reach senior level. He stresses that at top level, fitness and strength are not the decisive factors, citing the 2010 World Cup where the likes of Xavi, Özil, Iniesta, and Sneijder dominated. “In Australia, we need to produce better players instead of fitter players – that is the essence of the Curriculum. There has been too much focus in the past on developing athletes.”


I just love hearing the quote in the underlined part of the above paragraph from Han Berger.=d>

In this state we still have a massive majority of coaches at all levels, including state youth coaches, who have players running without the ball on the training track. At least one state FFA staff coach does this with juniors.

It is an epidemic.](*,)

On a local blog, local football stakeholders frequently contend that because Man U, AC MIlan, etc, perform drills running without the ball, then it is okay for them to do it. Essentially, our split state league teams are amateurs, the complete opposite of top professional clubs in the world. They need all the time to develop technique they can get, but they don't seem to realise it.](*,)

I was pleased to see two of out of three senior split state league coaches doing all their work with the ball. Over the next season I hope to observe all of them on the training ground. The two happen to be good mates of Coach C at FFE.

Decentric,

The issue with structured training is that it interferes with natural abilities of gifted players. Could you imagine a structured type coach telling Pele not to try to score goals with a backflip because it's not in the handbook?

A gifted coach would see natural abilities and would simply work on the basic errors allowing the gifted side to run free. Once we start putting limitations on gifted players we are restricting their natural gift and effectively quashing what might be simply brilliance for the future. This is interfering with the evolution of game. I know the Dutch very well. Probably better than most Aussies and they are very forthright in their beliefs and will enforce them on whoever they can, Similar to German style.

In my opinion this selecting a very small few elite players at 11-12 years of age is simply hypercrap. Many things can change over the course of 10 years and who are these people that believe they have the right to select what is and what isn't a good player.

Just tonight we were wishing all the best to one of our academy lads who has been selected for Stoke City U/17-18 Academy. Yet this lad has been told for years he wasn't even good enough for NSW Premier League and was rejected by all clubs and played most of his football in NSWSL. Just goes to show what a crap system we have here in Australia if it can't recognise real talent OR isn't allowed too?.

In fact this hypercrap has been going on for well over 30 years that I know of. As myself and many mates would be rejected from every rep side we trialled for. But when our club side would play the rep side that refused to have our players from trials we would kick their arse by 5-10 goals. Later on I made a NSW Premier League first grade squad. Go figure. It wasn't so much my situation that was frustrating. It was the fact I had mates who could pawn the arse off top players but could never get a gig in any decent high level clubs.

Every time I hear some footballing body say we are implimenting a new system or making big changes it always sounds to me like they are changing the rules to suit themselves, their mates and relatives etc. So when the dutch say we are making big changes for the good of all.. It really means we are changing the rules so us dutchies can get a stranglehold on your system.

TBH it just pisses me off no end hearing the crap and interpreting the real meaning. They say one thing but it means another...

In a nutshell we don't have the best players wearing green and gold and never have because the best have been culled long before they reached 16 years of age. What we are watching is all the dud dropkick relatives of those politically or finacially who run our game. And they expect us to pay bucks to go watch the rubbish...Not on your life. I've never paid to watch an A-League, NSWPL or National match in my life and never will. I really get sick and tired of every football commentator nowdays who wore the green and gold who never qualified for a world cup because they were completely useless duds commentating in todays press or TV.

All I can say is bring on the future when Cahill, Kewell, Emerton and co start coaching and taking over the press and TV because todays lot of commentators were and still are a complete waste of space of breath. Divots the lot of them.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 29/12/2011 02:19:45 AM

I think Han Berg is good for Australian football however I'm a realist and a man of fact.

My opinions are these
Im all for: improved coaching education, better youth pathways, better talent identification and a more technical style of development.
i am in full support of Han Berg so dont let what i say below make you think otherwise.

However these are the facts in the last 5-6 years

Since we have changed our development we have failed in two U/20 WC a Senior world cup and a U/17. All competitions we were schooled on how to play football in one or more matches.

We have not produced a single good player with our new development system that is playing top level football (which to me is the single biggest problem at the moment with Australia)

In all honestly for the bulk of the last 2 national team coaches Arnold and Verbeek, played some of the worst and most boring football Australia has played ever not representing anything close to what he describes as what our youth are learning.

Also since Hiddik has left the national team has been on a slow downward spiral that only came to a halt when Holger was signed however we has lost Gulum and with no new real talent coming in other the Herd things aren't looking great at the moment for 2014.

The only improvement that has actually occurred is our Australian coaches have improved markedly in the last 5 years with the introduction of the Fifa A licence requirement to coach a A-league side.

I still support Han because i think the new development pathways need more time and he has made some great changes. I'm still starting to feel he is better at talking and saying the right things opposed to putting them in to action.

Edited by Davstar: 29/12/2011 02:34:26 AM

Davstar,

I can sum up the reasons in one word *Brainwashed* As my above statement they say one thing but mean another. You have to have had experience and an old wise head to be able to interpret their true meaning.

I have watched the TV show can't remember its name but it showcased young stars of the future. I was horrified to watch a film clip of this kid who was tauted as a future star spending more time on his head than on his feet...Complete rubbish. I remember thinking to myself if this kid and others like him are our stars of the future we are going down the shitter real fast...

Edited by Aussiesrus: 29/12/2011 02:39:53 AM

NO WAY NOT ME dispute how much people on this site may loth some of my posts i try my best to stick to fact

Im all honest and I'm all fact it isn't easy to produce Robin Van Persi's, Messis, Vidics etc Han can't be blamed because we haven't produce another "Kewell or Cahill" etc.

I think the old system needed to change i don't agree with all the changes that have been made i don't see what the obsession with the

4-3-3 considering since Viduka retired Australia has not had a decent striker to hold up the ball.

My biggest concern is we aren't producing players good enough to play in average leagues like Holland, Greece etc in the old system we pretty much always had at least 5-6 players in the top 3 leagues in the world.

At the moment we have Cahill, Swarts and Herd and two of them are pretty much finished.

However any criticism aimed at our development is fair and i won't stick my neck out to defend it but i won't bad mouth it yet ill give it 4 more years.

Also i'd like to add another big problem with football is it has become very expensive to play and really it should be getting cheaper not more dear to register as a player!

Fully agree....High expense suits the affluent like coins in a coin jar to them. Those that are politically well adjusted use the systems cash that is milked from association football...

True talent is talent no matter what their financial or political situation.

Nothing like hearing about the politically well adjusted and rich kids taking up spots in high level football going frrrrrttt and kicking airswings at the expense of real talented footballers who's space they take up in NYL. And there are plenty of them, I hear about them all time.

To prove a point, last season the ASA took 16 lads that had been rejected by NSWPL and NSWSL sides and formed a squad, trained them for 6 months... then went and played those teams 5 times and beat them 5 times with their own rejects.

Now your starting to see the bigger picture.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 29/12/2011 03:07:17 AM

Sure. You raise a fair point, Aussiesrus.

There are going to be some exceptional players, often exceptions to the rule, who fit this category. The point is, very few are this good.

When I was a professional musician, many other musicians thought they didn't need to learn theory, because they pointed out a few world class brilliant musicians who didn't learn theory, yet became renowned musicians.

This is a fair point. However, very few of us are this talented. Most of us benefit from explicit instruction, but there are a few gifted people who don't need, or benefit from explicit technique instruction.

100%
but i think in queensland this is changing.

There's been 100's of coaching philosophy new dawns over the past 30 or 40 years in NSW (football capital) - this Dutch bollox is just another. Albiet this one is significantly the most costly and the negative impact will be felt for many years.

As for the rest of your post? Emotive claptrap from an aggrieved parent.

99% of Socceroos, A-Leaguers and other pro players came out of junior/youth elite rep teams. There's never been a shortage of whingers who never made the cut. They will go on to carve out a career at all age district level whilst their parents will rabbit on, to anyone who'll listen, that their kid was an overlooked (by dozens of coaches and selectors) Kewell in the making.

To put it another way we have changed to a European style development system and national European based methodology.

In the past we had an ad hoc, even in Sydney.

The A League is playing much more technical football than it was even a few years ago. This has occurred through the European push.


I don'[t like the dichotomy between elite players and community players that the FFA NC is trying to push. Nevertheless, the NC is a push in the right direction.

Wrong.

99% must be inaccurate.

Tasmanians Alan Cisak and Simon Miotto never went through national youth elite teams. They have both forged careers in the English Lower Leagues.

Tasmanian Greg Downes wasn't in national youth elite set ups. He has just landed a contract in Blue Star Conference, the tier just below League 2 in England.

Michael Marrone has never played for Australia in underage teams.

In a massive state like NSW it would be easy to miss the cut when one selects a youth state team of 16 players. There may be
50 000 players in that specific age group.

There must be other members of the forum who can list other players who have managed pro careers but not gone through the FFA rep systems.

That guy from ASA who has achieved a Man City youth contract was not in FFA elite programmes, but has probably succeeded at a higher level than almost anybody in his age group in Australia in terms of a possible European career.

Elite junior/youth system = Metro Reps/PYL (in NSW) - refer to aussie's post.

Youve named a few no name Tasmanians kicking about for beer money in low tier English leagues......hardly a convincing argument, decentric.

Edited by judy free: 30/12/2011 10:57:58 AM

Sydney Olympic PYL.

Top tier comp for NSW's best yoof players.

Yes, why take segments from various philosophies when you can put all your eggs in one basket.

Yawn.

I'm talking about FFA youth rep teams and NTC.

They would amount to about 80 players per state, with half being females.

If one adds the AIS then that equates to about 280 male players in Australia in FFA state rep squads. In the US they would have millions in their college system.

A former junior Socceroo captain, and current state FFA TD, defines NSWPL essentially as an amateur competition, and the defunct NSL as a part time pro competition. By his definition none of them being 'elite'.

Lower Leagues One and Two, have been similar in standard to the A League, even if their style is direct.

In queensland the old Paul Lonton = fail
the new Peter de roo =win win
says it all imo :lol: :lol: :lol:

You really are clueless, decentric.

FYI there are three tiers of rep yoof football in NSW. Thats approx 40 clubs x 16 players each. Big enough window for ambitious players to showcase their talent, or lack thereof.

Only a few of these can showcase their talents at national championships.

Some overseas coaches are won't even look at a player unless he has represented Australia.

Fitness is not the decisive factor at the top, special players are. Fulfilling this aim is not going to be easy and it is not going to happen overnight. The Curriculum’s Building Blocks methodology is the framework that provides the practical guidelines for coaches working at all levels of youth development.” In other words: it explains what should be taught to players at various ages, from five all the way up to 20.



This is another excellent initiative.

Nobody can convince me we had a system, in the previous ad hoc one, where we had a prescriptive blueprint about what we should coach at different ages and stages of cognitive football development.

-Cisak was in the Young Socceroos for a couple of years.

-Marrone is a former AIS scholarship holder.

-The Man City boy is in FNSW's state futsal team.

-Many players have gone straight from NSWPYL into AIS and Joeys squads bypassing NSWIS. FFA obviously recognise that there's more quality player than there are spots in a NSW state team and keep an eye on this league.

Alan?

Geezuz, you've got a good handle on local tassie talent, decentric.

It's "Alex" FFS. #-o

GK who played for OZ U/20's.

As for the other bloke, talentless 40 something journeyman who's played 20 odd first games in past 20 years. But I s'pose he was once better than Bosnich, Kalac and Schwarzer? FMD.

Edited by judy free: 30/12/2011 12:26:07 PM

Bloody hell, you clutch at straws like a silly old woman. So, now the nswpl and nswpyl, both second only to the aleague and aleague youth, aren't elite levels of football, eh?

Then, if that's the case it makes all the other levels, including by comparison, the bush level football in that football backward state of Tasmania, look pretty pathetic. My apologies to other Tasmanians.

BTW, when speaking of nsw in future, don't forget to add to nswf, the nnswff, it's players that outnumber all in Tas. by about 4-1, it's nnswis and subsidiary outlets, it's elite youth comps such as syl (covering an area from the central coast to Ballina and Tamworth/NW slopes and plains in the west, plus the nbn state league youth and first touch colts league.

No, i don't want one of your boring, obnoxious and long winded bedtime tales in answer, thanks very much.

Last year FFA started Skill Acquisition Programs for talented 10-13 year-old boys and girls in every state and territory. The pinnacle of these programs were the ‘Skilleroos’ squads where the most talented U/13 kids train and play under the guidance of FFA-trained expert skill coaches in a year-round, free-of-charge elite program. Unfortunately the awareness of the Skill Acquisition Programs, especially among parents, still has to improve dramatically. “Parents would rather pay thousands of dollars to send their kids to so-called elite academies instead of sending them our programs that deliver real quality, for free.”

These Skill Acquisition Programs underpin and lead into the next phase – the State Institute Programs. These are programs aimed at the best 14-16 year-old boys and are also year-round and free of charge. The coaches involved are trained and selected by FFA and the Game Training Phase is covered by these programs: teaching the players the individual team tasks and how these tasks link together when you play as a team.




There are very few who are selected for these SAP programmes in this state.


State FFA have no capacity/resources to run programmes for kids other than 'elite' ones, yet they have a paid full time staff coach working at a specific club in a paid capacity on top of his FFA duties.

He is committing more time to 'assist' a private club, yet he can't find time to run a free programme for two hours once per week, like we do at FFE for any interested young players, not just a few elite ones.

A considerable number of these targeted elite players give the game up. Hence, this is a waste of precious FFA resources.

Han Berger should also be aware it costs thousands of dollars for kids to be in a state team. This precludes many. The FFA system is very elitist. The vast income generated by a million registered players or so, is spent on a few elite kids.

Private academies may still be a cheaper option than being in a state team. I assume it is the bean counters, like Lowy, not Berger, who are responsible for this abhorrent situation at FFA.

Another problem is that NTC players suffer the delusion they will all become professional players. Many don't get there. At least NTC coaches and FFA apparatchiks shouldn't mislead young players.

Don't get me wrong. The way these programmes are run, using contemporary European training methodology, they should be pretty good. It is just they are available for very few players.

Edited by Decentric: 30/12/2011 03:53:18 PM

That is a former Young Socceroo captain's evaluation.

I don't know the NSL that well and the elite structure for youth in NSW.

He does.

I was impressed he played in the NSL. He dismissed it as essentially an amateur league, and that he never really played professionally. He was disappointed a move to a well known European club didn't materialise.

Is that a succinct enough response for you and not too prolix?

Edited by Decentric: 30/12/2011 04:44:22 PM

In conjunction with the various Member Federations, FFA have appointed State Technical Directors to oversee and guide the whole process. “Previously scouting was focused on identifying and selecting big, fast and strong players,” says Berger. “This has caused a major problem in Australia called the “Relative Age Effect” – where players born in the first months of the year are selected as they are more developed physically.

This undoubtedly results in us losing many potentially talented players from a player pool that already isn’t very large. The coaches who work in the national programs have now been instructed to first look for skilful players. Physical shortcomings can always be refined later and appear not to be the determining factor at the top anyway.”




This is a good initiative.

Some elite/split state league coaches here are still obsessed with big, fast and strong players.

The message is clear - technical skill is paramount in the new FFA direction.

The amount is continually and dramatically overstated. The figures stated in the state federations own financial reports quote less than half this figure as registered players.

And yes, of freaking course the nsl was an amateur to semi pro league at best. However, it was the very top level of football in the country and the only national league. So don't try your childish bullshit in claiming by association with someone else's comments, that because it wasn't a professional league it also wasn't the elite Australian league of it's time.

Your attempts to denigrate anything pre 2005 are reaching absurd levels.

I can't remember making any premeditated attempt to denigrate everything pre 2005.:-k

I think there are a lot of improvements in the game post 2005, but that is not to blatantly denigrate anything because it was pre 2005.

Like a number of other geriatrics, we were supposedly playing elite football in the late sixties. In hindsight we were shocked at how we were coached. There was a massive onus on physicality.

“We also are aware that the number of available places in this pathway is too limited and needs to be increased,” says Berger. “FFA is working on a number of initiatives to make that happen, in particular an accreditation system for A-league and state league club youth development academies.”

This is good that Berger has acknowledged this problem.

We don't have an A League club this state, but the state league youth development academies are a great idea.

Less chance of players slipping through the net. It also provides more opportunities for more young players.

What a great load of uninformed horseshit, aimed squarely at the blown-in new dawn clueless.

Berger continues to take the piss.







Edited by judy free: 30/12/2011 10:51:42 PM

LOL, you know absolutely jack shit about strayan sockah prior to 2005.



Does he?

Is this the bloke who played only two seasons in the NSL in the late 80's?

And you hang onto this blokes every word?

FMD, half the blokes in my O35's team had significantly more impressive CV's.

..



Edited by judy free: 30/12/2011 11:10:52 PM

great come back:lol: :lol: :lol:

Fair comment.

I believe the NC is essentially good,

'but FFA doesn't have the resources can't coach every elite player'.

The speech marks are the words of a current state FFA TD. He knows private academies/schools are providing something the FFA programme can't, but he is countermanded from expressing this opinion publicly.

Berger doesn't like to concede control. I agree he should evaluate a number of private academies. There are cracks that need to be patched up. One of Berger's subordinate state TDs believes academies should exist within an FFA jurisdiction, but be allowed to act semi-autonomously.

Edited by Decentric: 31/12/2011 12:19:59 AM

Another excellent point.

Keep going in your criticisms, Aussiesrus.

I think there are some problems with the Green and Gold Future, such as the aforementioned ones you've elucidated, but there are some excellent edicts in terms of direction too.

I can see the relevance when Berger states that in Holland when they don't win, or perform well in underage world competitions, it barely raises a comment.

The performance of a nation's senior national team is the criterion for evaluating success.

I'm glad that development of players has assumed priority over results in FFA's NC.

The problem is that all these national teams cost money. I don't know how one can economically rationalise the FFE national team underage programmes.

If you had attended an FFA presentation on Under 20 tactics at a World Cup, there was data available listing the average size of a number of national team players at under 20 World Cups. The data can also be extrapolated to seniors.

The average height of European nations was 1.80m, 1.81 m and 1.82m respectively. Australian players were usually amongst the largest units on average for any national team.
In the old era, when you were at your peak as a pre-eminent elite coach of Australian hoofball and fightball, it was a misplaced myth that in requirements for certain positions, players had to be big, brawny and strong in Australia.

South and Central American teams averaged 1.75m in height, yet they performed well.

The data supports Han Berger's proposition that being built like a bovine, bull or buffalo, was good for a career in football in Australia.

Judy, I'm getting tired of these insults and personal attacks that preface or accompany nearly every one of your posts. It seems the lights could soon be going out on your 442 membership in the imminent future. Alas, your membership could be terminated whilst still only a semi- pro.
I agree with one's right to express a different opinion, but play the ball not the man.](*,)



Edited by Decentric: 31/12/2011 01:03:27 AM

Quality comment, Judy.
:d

Please keep entering posts of this calibre and brevity.

This is the best post I've seen you enter in five years. It would be wonderful if it was the last.





Edited by Decentric: 31/12/2011 01:20:18 AM

What about the young guy who has been told for years he isn't good enough for NSWPL but has just been signed to the Stoke City academy U17/U18? This type of thing just typifies the rubbish our so called elite system is full of...Everyone who has had anything to do with football for the last 30 years knows this...Only a dickhead thinks otherwise and that's why this country doesn't get 100% behind the sport.

Why is our NSWPL system which underpins A-League flawed to the point that a NSWSL player gets signed to an EPL club academy but cannot get a gig here in a NSWPL side?

The answer is because our NSWPL and NSWSL system of clubs has serious flaws, politics and limitations that doesn't allow them to either recognise or select enough talented players. Are the coaches crap and blind at selection time? Are the coaches politically handtied? Are the clubs finacially hand tied? come selection time.. Probably all 3 and more. This all equates to serious issues in our system which is crushing the flow of natural talent into our top tier football. Natural talent is being culled for the wrong reasons here because you can change the name of clubs but the culture will remain the same. I cannot comment what it is like in other states but imagine it's not different there either.

Judy Free, Don't tell me what i'm saying is emotive crap. It wasn't that long ago our national team couldn't even sing our countries anthem prior to kick off. Jobs for the boys....and not a lot has changed. Craig Johnston was no idiot. One of this countries most talented players that would not play for his countries senior side because the players that filled the team were rubbish and promoted into the green and gold due to cultural background instead of abilities. No wonder it took 32 years to qualify for a WC and in our countries history we have only qualified 3 times...

You can take average players and give them the highest level coaching we have. You will still end up with highly trained "average" players. BUT!!! if you give talented players high level training you will end up with high level talented players. Get my drift..BIG DIFFERENCE..

Development is used widely to cover up the serious issues that taint the sport here. Ah yeah don't worry what your seeing is complete crap...They have L Plates and will get better!! Bullshit hogwash....Maradona won the U/20 world cup before winning the senior world cup.

Our FFA system is RUBBISH...This is also why top overseas clubs are looking at private academies for talent nowdays because they are sick of looking at rubbish promoted through our so called elite pathways that are tainted and talentless.

Don't get me wrong. There are some very talented players that fully deserve their spots and are the backbones of their teams and clubs success. It's the political and financially selected no talent players that are limiting positions for real talent that pisses me off no end. This is the point of many's frustration with this sport here.

But then again who is gonna tell the 50k per year sponsor that his fat kid has no talent or top players and coaches their kids play more like their mums than their dads...

Not me that's for sure. But I refuse to pay to watch the crap.



Edited by Aussiesrus: 31/12/2011 03:11:47 AM

Also a comp for fat sponsors talentless kids and mates who run the system...Elite my arse...Half should be playing division 2 park football....

So why hasn't the FFA system of identification picked him or the other lad now at Stoke City for a nsw rep side or national rep side before they got snapped up by EPL sides? Doesn't this tell you something is rotten with the current system here in Australia?

You would have to have the IQ of a potato to think nothing is wrong...

Ah well Manchester City Academy will just have to do then for this lad and the other lad will just have to be satisfied at Stoke City Academy in the English Premier League.

In the meantime 2 more of the 6 players have been asked to return to Leeds and Blackpool next season for further evaluation and another lad is still with the Man city shadow squad since the end of last year and doesn't look to be coming back to Australia anytime soon..

3 more ASA lads are off to Asia in January 2012 for S-League trials.

Anyway if you want to keep up to date with these lads you can read about them as news comes to hand at the link below.

ASA's hot new website.

http://www.australasiansocceracademy.com.au/

Edited by Aussiesrus: 31/12/2011 05:27:37 AM

well said=d>

[quote=Decentric South and Central American teams averaged 1.75m in height, yet they performed well.

quote]

this topic was discussed elsewhere on the interweb , i suggest that you check the average height of south americans and also the avergage for euro/aus , guess what the south americans are smaller and therefore you would expect the players to be smaller, likewise euro/aus height is talller and so the players are taller.


relative age effect is another fallacy. The England FA believe thus fallacy until it was found at the world cup the players were even spread amongst all months of the year.
It may effect scouting for 5/6 years old that i will admit

IME
Fast,tall & strong dictate selection until 15+

[quote=krones3 Fast,tall & strong dictate selection until 15+[/quote]

whats wrong with fast, as Lineker often says not having pace is no longer an option as the speed of the pro game has changed.

Selectors here are just lazy and have 'what makes my job easier' attitude , so in effect they select they same old players. I used to find it funny that parents would jump up and down at u12 when their child wasnt put forward for state trials but the closed shop starts then. With the SAP starting at u9 i fear the closed shop is even younger now.

This thread Is underpinned by one common theme.

That is, fanatical parents who are incapable of accepting that their sockah playing son or daughter missed selection. Blame the system? It's always been the excuse of choice.

Seriously, what's tthe fucking point?:lol:

Five or ten years down the track and you'll be looking back on all this wasted energy, as your kid is kicking about in district all age, or have turned their back on the sport. It's always been the fanatics, who's kids were somewhat short on genuine talent, who regularly made the most noise. Like sands through the hour glass.

Oh and Aussie, I've known many many kids over the years who've picked up a spot on a UK club youth roster. Hardly a decent barometer for measuring and blaming the local system. Not surprisingly none of them made the progression to pro football.

Now, as you keep refering to ASA, I need to ask you again; which grads of the Basher sockah school are now playing full time pro football?

whats wrong with fast, as Lineker often says not having pace is no longer an option as the speed of the pro game has changed.

Selectors here are just lazy and have 'what makes my job easier' attitude , so in effect they select they same old players. I used to find it funny that parents would jump up and down at u12 when their child wasnt put forward for state trials but the closed shop starts then. With the SAP starting at u9 i fear the closed shop is even younger now. [/quote]


The fastest kid i ever saw selected has the lowest skills i have ever seen.
I was told the state coaches thought his selection was someone taking the piss.

Edited by krones3: 31/12/2011 08:23:04 AM

Decentric and the like might buy this bullshit, but those who know and understand the details won't.

They didn't suddenly get better, Aussie. More the case that there were more opportunities due to less competition at selection trials.

At U11s and U12s rep trials you'll get 100+ walk ups. At U15's you might struggle to get 30. At the lower tier (3rd tier) you'll be lucky to scrape up enough players for a team.

From park football to rep? Gimme a break. Same players, same skillset, same limited abilities, but less competition for a spot on a roster.

But it does tend to create an environment for silly parents who think their kid has been accepted into elite company.

I believe the only thing you are tiring of is being constantly exposed as a dead set numpty.

Name dropping and knowledge by apparent association has it's limits.

Happy New Year.

Edited by judy free: 31/12/2011 09:13:58 AM

Paul Lontons favorite word for some 8year old players.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

](*,)

This topic has thrown up a lot of interesting discussion from a number of 442 members, including you. You and I converge in thought on occasions, the same as you and Aussiesrus, Krones, Batfink etc, and other 442 members.

Why would a senior citizen such as yourself waste time on infantile and immature personal attacks?

For someone who spends so much time denigrating 442 members, you sure spend a lot of time on this forum. It indicates a lack of football interaction/discussion, and possibly social interaction, elsewhere.

FWIW your knowledge of football in NSW is interesting. Also, the fact you have been around the football scene for a long time provides interesting perspectives. It provides counterpoints in discussion. Just eliminate playing the man and everybody will get on well. If you see an opinion, by all means disagree with it, but question the idea not the person.

Nobody else really visits this forum, and Performance in particular, to engage in immature verbal altercation. Football is the topic we share a passion for.

There may be problems in smaller states, but NSW being bigger, problems can be magnified.

The EPL signings by ASA is a very solid point you make, Aussiesrus.

It would be interesting to find out the attitude of FFA officialdom about ASA and other academies securing overseas contracts for players in the most elite competitions? Usually any success outside FFA system is denigrated by FFA, when it should be celebrated.

Gareth Edds has recently set up a soccer school. I'm sure players attending will gain success training with him, if he has a decent manner with kids and has and has an understanding of coaching methodology and practice. I think he has a FFA B Licence. If he hasn't, working with someone with experience in teaching practice could still be a potent partnership.

The player manager/scout I've recently formed an association with, says that FFA look unfavourably on players moving overseas.
I can see FFA's point. However, there are limited opportunities for players in this country. All sorts of issues arise with players signing for A League clubs and contracts falling through.

The aim of all coaching should be to assist players to reach their potential, whatever it may be, and for them to enjoy the game.

and that is at the heart of the problem, hence all the academies etc.
FFA probably see licensing academies as cash cows

Sorry Judy Free but you are seriously out of touch with current situations. Too much fishing lately? I can respect that ;)

You haven't been to NSWPL open trials lately or for quite some time it appears. I've attended open trials for a number of NSWPL and NSWSL sides for 2 years now for U18 and U/20 and it is common to get between 50-100 players trial for U/20's.

And yeah park football to reps alright. Basha's U/15 Div 1 granville park footy side of last year boasts 15 of 16 now playing NSWPL, NSWSL and Div 1 state league. 6 of which are have made the jump directly to NSWPYL for 2012. These were the same lads that were not picked by rep sides last season and Basha formed a div 1 side local park footy and use to go kick NSWPL and NSWSL arses mid season.

So indeed the training made a big difference.

Perhaps your not skilled or know of coaches skilled enough that can turn park footy players into NSWPL or NSWSL players but thats where ASA can and does by using talented coaches who can get the best out of players...Not every kid has the potential to do this but when you give all levels the same high level coaching pretty soon you start to see who can and who won't make the grade. And sometimes it just takes some kids longer than others.

As for the list of pro players...Define Pro for me...Does EPL count? Does A-League count? Does S-League count? Does NSWPL paid player count? Also overseas academies do pay their students, does that count?

Mate you need lift your head out of the fishing boat and catch up with current happenings. A lot has and is changing. Your prawns are getting a bit old and on the nose #-o

Edited by Aussiesrus: 31/12/2011 12:49:10 PM

The last 2 Australian national coaches won't pick players unless they are based overseas and playing professional football....So FFA is saying one thing but being hypocritical in a practical sense.

For FFA to licence academies would require academies to use the FFA's training methods. This will totally undermine the freedom of systems that work differently and are successful by way of different training practices used. Different kids respond to different methods of teaching. Good coaches and teachers know this. What works for some may not work for others.

Telling some football kids eating a brussel sprout is full of iron and good for them some will eat it, others won't. Tell football kids Lionel Messi and Ronaldo have them for lunch they will all eat bucketload of them.

This is why freedom of some quality academies being brought under FFA's coaching methods will seriously undermine the success players of the academies currently enjoy.

We should never put limits on what kids can achieve by restricting them to limited learning methods.

You have to remember we have many different cultures of varying styles and techniques. To tell them they all must pass the dutch method or fail off is limiting and unproductive.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 31/12/2011 01:21:58 PM

You mean the team that got smacked 5 zip in a cofc semi? :lol:

The diff between park footy and PYL can be measured in light years......find another target for your rampant bullshit. Maybe give Jimmy Patruzzi a call?:lol:



Oh dear.

A player who's primary source of income is derived from full time football.

ASA pro's? Big fat fucking zero. Impressive.

Happy New Year and thanks for the larfs during '11.



Edited by judy free: 31/12/2011 02:47:52 PM

Quick, some one better advise Alistair Edwards. :lol:

they do but a player must look after his own career.

Play the ball, play the man but don't sit here and mark space an hour after the full-time whistle.

Judy free = joke of the year

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/welcome-to-the-1200-soccer-season-20111022-1mdky.html

You still defending NSWPL or NSW football?

Edited by krones3: 31/12/2011 06:18:48 PM

For FFA to licence academies would require academies to use the FFA's training methods. This will totally undermine the freedom of systems that work differently and are successful by way of different training practices used. Different kids respond to different methods of teaching. Good coaches and teachers know this. What works for some may not work for others.

The FFA can see that parents are quite happy to fork out on acadamies by licensing them as offical FFA approved it generates cash for FFA , reaches out beyond its exisiting structure.Yes they would use national curriculum.
The alternative unlicensed can continue as now and let the parents decide who to back.

Leave Judy alone.. his extensive contacts list on his mobile has been offering him BIG TIME positions, but unfortunately Judy has been a bit busy trolling FFT to take up the multiple offers ... just ask him, he'll tell you

Why the fuck would I wanna defend FNSW, you idiot. :lol:

It's now a new dawn FFA run enterprise i.e. exactly what the clueless wanted.

Geez your one confused clown...Since when do under 15's play in the open mens C of C?

Your talking about his over the hill weekend BBQ prems side that was full of reserve reserve players and the keeper with a broken thumb that lost to sutherland in the C of C 2011.

I'm talking about his under 15 side...Get with the program...Didn't they tell you at the nursing you shouldn't wash down your senile pills with your grecian 2000. It will only confuse your lonely brain cell.

As for Pro...I'll see if Basha will release a list...

And yeah Happy New Year 2 u 2...Keep the circus rolling here at 4-4-2. Reading your posts is like hearing the dog fart and watching him trying to find it.