The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese


The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese

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batfink
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afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
What the fuck is this fuss about Gillard's top having too low a collar? What a load of crap.



as if anyone would be interested in sneaking a peek????

They're calling it 'disrespectful'. Honestly, if you're more interested in what she's wearing than her policies then you should fuck right off.


what policies???


550 pieces of legislation have passed this parliament despite the destructive campaign of an Abbott led LNP.



you sound like Gillard, blame Abbott for everything.....she has all she needs to pass all the bills,except that her bedfellows don't even agree with her policies or direction

she doesn't rely on Abbott to pass bills........i'm glad we have someone protecting us from such a destructive politcian in this country


How can you pretend to be Impartial when you post tripe like this?



Your kidding right, typical of you to avoid the truth, Gillard has the greens and the independants and have the number to pass legislation, so her own government are failing to accept her policies....... Your making excuses for Gillard, the greens & the independants........
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
afromanGT
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batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
batfink
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afromanGT wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
What the fuck is this fuss about Gillard's top having too low a collar? What a load of crap.



as if anyone would be interested in sneaking a peek????

They're calling it 'disrespectful'. Honestly, if you're more interested in what she's wearing than her policies then you should fuck right off.


what policies???


550 pieces of legislation have passed this parliament despite the destructive campaign of an Abbott led LNP.



you sound like Gillard, blame Abbott for everything.....she has all she needs to pass all the bills,except that her bedfellows don't even agree with her policies or direction

she doesn't rely on Abbott to pass bills........i'm glad we have someone protecting us from such a destructive politcian in this country


How can you pretend to be Impartial when you post tripe like this?

Batfink reminds me of Brian Griffin. "My loyalty is to reason" - and his reason tells him that the Liberal party is infallible.
paulbagzFC wrote:
ozboy wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
have you seen what people get paid at Universities?

Outlandish.

-PB

Compared to?


Normal admin jobs/salaries?

-PB

Normal admin jobs don't generally require a degree, nor do they develop people for 'elite' jobs like architects, doctors, etc.



your a laugh.........elite jobs!!!!!...lol....elite jobs...what a piss take.....lol....

can't take you seriously......:-" :-" :-" :-"
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.


they are Gillard led policies that didn't do the due diligence required....simple as that....

knee jerk shoot from the hip policy platform......
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.


they are Gillard led policies that didn't do the due diligence required....simple as that....

knee jerk shoot from the hip policy platform......



How do you know due diligence wasn't done?
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
paulbagzFC
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afromanGT wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
What the fuck is this fuss about Gillard's top having too low a collar? What a load of crap.



as if anyone would be interested in sneaking a peek????

They're calling it 'disrespectful'. Honestly, if you're more interested in what she's wearing than her policies then you should fuck right off.


what policies???


550 pieces of legislation have passed this parliament despite the destructive campaign of an Abbott led LNP.



you sound like Gillard, blame Abbott for everything.....she has all she needs to pass all the bills,except that her bedfellows don't even agree with her policies or direction

she doesn't rely on Abbott to pass bills........i'm glad we have someone protecting us from such a destructive politcian in this country


How can you pretend to be Impartial when you post tripe like this?

Batfink reminds me of Brian Griffin. "My loyalty is to reason" - and his reason tells him that the Liberal party is infallible.
paulbagzFC wrote:
ozboy wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
have you seen what people get paid at Universities?

Outlandish.

-PB

Compared to?


Normal admin jobs/salaries?

-PB

Normal admin jobs don't generally require a degree, nor do they develop people for 'elite' jobs like architects, doctors, etc.


Haha exactly, yet Uni admins get paid 75k+ to file paperwork AND complain when they don't get a 7% increase.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

Edited
9 Years Ago by paulbagzFC
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Joffa wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.


they are Gillard led policies that didn't do the due diligence required....simple as that....

knee jerk shoot from the hip policy platform......



How do you know due diligence wasn't done?


He feels it in his aching bones. That's all the evidence he needs,
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.


they are Gillard led policies that didn't do the due diligence required....simple as that....

knee jerk shoot from the hip policy platform......

Several thousand page documents with detailed analysis from industry experts is about all the 'due diligence' you can possibly do.
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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notorganic wrote:
Joffa wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.


they are Gillard led policies that didn't do the due diligence required....simple as that....

knee jerk shoot from the hip policy platform......



How do you know due diligence wasn't done?


He feels it in his aching bones. That's all the evidence he needs,



well it's a fact in the NBN that the government were made aware of the Asbestos pipes/pits and chose to play it quite and now are shifting the blame to Telstra...they were advised well ahead of the start of the NBN, same with the insulation scheme......the National Electrical & communications Association wrote to the then minister Peter Garrett with a submission putting forward a list of recommendations and procedures to avoid a catastrophe, NECA were told they weren't needed and that it was all in hand.......fast forward 9-12 months and 4 deaths and 30 house fire and they approach NECA and ask for it's members (including me) to put forward a plan to go through all the existing insulation installations and have then certified.......
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
Quote:
550 fuckups......they don't have informed policies they just shoot from the hip, that's why so many of there implementations fail.......simple as that.....

Name a Gillard-led Labor policy that didn't quote an informed opinion prior to implementation.


Carbon tax

Mining super profits tax

NBN

should I continue

#-o All of those policies quoted industry specific professional opinions prior to implementation.

What a surprise that you as usual, are clutching at straws.


they are Gillard led policies that didn't do the due diligence required....simple as that....

knee jerk shoot from the hip policy platform......

Several thousand page documents with detailed analysis from industry experts is about all the 'due diligence' you can possibly do.



well i'm glad your so easily pleased, and it's easy to get a report but whether you take any notice of it or implement it's recommendations is another thing......but hey you ticked the box and shifted the blame so it's all good...;) ;)
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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-PB


Edited by paulbagzFC: 19/6/2013 08:06:40 AM

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

Edited
9 Years Ago by paulbagzFC
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batfink wrote:
well i'm glad your so easily pleased, and it's easy to get a report but whether you take any notice of it or implement it's recommendations is another thing......but hey you ticked the box and shifted the blame so it's all good...;) ;)

Aside from detailed documentation and consultation from industry experts, what do YOU call 'due dilligence'?
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
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afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
well i'm glad your so easily pleased, and it's easy to get a report but whether you take any notice of it or implement it's recommendations is another thing......but hey you ticked the box and shifted the blame so it's all good...;) ;)

Aside from detailed documentation and consultation from industry experts, what do YOU call 'due dilligence'?


well it's all well and good getting all these fucken reports done ...but if you take no notice of them it ends up a mess....just a this Government have proven on just about every project so far.......they cherry pick what they think suits there needs and it ends up a massive debacle...


Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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Quote:
by Dr John L Perkins

The Government has developed draft legislation which gives effect to the statutory definition: http://www.treasury.gov.au/ConsultationsandReviews/Submissions/2013/A-statutory-definition-of-charity. The following is the Secular Party’s submission to Treasury on the draft legislation.

3 May 2013



Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: A statutory definition of charity: advancing religion, per se, is not a charitable purpose.

The definition of a charitable purpose must include only those activities that are unequivocally a public benefit. There is no doubt that relieving sickness and poverty and promoting education are unequivocally beneficial. The advancement of religion is not. To the extent that advancing religion advances the other charitable purposes, its inclusion is unnecessary. To the extent that it does otherwise, its inclusion is unwarranted.

The intention of the proposed Charities Bill 2013 is to provide a definition of charity for the 21st century. Yet this bill, as the Explanatory Notes acknowledge, entrenches an anachronistic definition of charity originating in the 17th century1. No justification for this is provided.

The fact that advancing religion is not, of itself, a public benefit is acknowledged in the Bill. It is because of “doubt” that a religious purpose could fulfil the public benefit test that such organisations are exempted from the test2. Why is it that the proposed definition of charity is specifically crafted to include a purpose that is implicitly recognised as not a public benefit? There is no explanation in the Notes.

The issue is more than that the advancement of religion is not necessarily beneficial. There is abundant evidence that it is not beneficial but harmful, corrupting, divisive and dangerous. It should not be necessary to refer to the crimes that paedophile priests have committed while engaged in their “charitable purpose”. The egregious nature of religious conflict around the world can be observed daily.

It should be noted that the charitable purpose provided by Islamic schools in Australia encompasses the teaching of an extreme style of Wahhabi Islam imported from Saudi Arabia. It is not unlikely that this particular form of the advancement of religion is now cultivating the minds of future home-grown Australian terrorists. Such effects have already been demonstrated by convictions in Australian courts.

That the definition of charity should be twisted to allow and encourage the promotion of such divisive activities is more than an anachronistic anomaly. It is an outrage.

The effect of the proposed definition does not only jeopardise the future harmony of Australian society: it comes at significant cost to the budget revenue and to the Australian taxpayer. This does not just include subsidies and tax concessions granted to religious organisations: we have calculated that when we include an estimate of tax forgone on the unreported revenue derived from the imputed financial and other assets of religions organisations, then the total annual cost of religions to governments in Australia exceeds $30 billion.

We therefore submit that the advancement of religion should be removed from the definition of charitable purpose. The exemption provided for religious groups from fulfilling the public benefit test should also be removed from the Bill. The Explanatory Notes provided for the Bill raise many anomalies with regard to the treatment of religion. We now comment on these in more detail.

The Notes state that to be a charity, an entity must be not-for-profit and generally have only charitable purposes that are for the public benefit. It incorporates and extends the previous 2004 definition and “modernises” the language and categories3. It is curious that the concept of modernity used still encompasses the 17th century definition. It is also curious that with the number of eligible charitable purposes being considerably extended, the religious purpose still fails to qualify under any of the other extended categories. No explanation is provided for this.

In defining the benefit of the purpose, it is stated that “there must be a benefit that is real and of value to the public” (1.46). This may include “social, psychological or emotional benefits” or “spiritual benefits derived from the activities of religious organisations” (1.48). What exactly are “spiritual benefits”? It is clear from the context that they do not include social, psychological or emotional benefits. We must infer from the religious context that “spiritual” does not refer to any mental capacity but to a supernatural entity, a spirit, soul or ghost. It is astounding that a Bill of Parliament in Australia in 2013 should be predicated on such superstition.

Furthermore, in defining a purpose for the public benefit, it is stated that the purpose should not cause harm. “Examples of detriment or harm include damage to mental or physical health, damage to the environment, encouraging violence or hatred towards others, damaging community harmony, or engaging in illegal activities such as vandalism or restricting personal freedom”(1.50).

The potential harm caused by the teaching of a hardline version of Islam in Islamic schools was cited above. It is not difficult to cite further instances where the advancement of religion has caused harm:

- Creationism is taught in some taxpayer-funded religious schools. There have even been instances of this happening in public schools in Queensland. The teaching of myths from the Bronze Age as though they were facts is not education.

- Some mainstream churches, including the Catholic Church, oppose any realistic family planning, such as the use of condoms and contraceptives. In Third World countries the Vatican has actually spread the lie that condoms spread the HIV virus.

- The negative attitude of some religious organisations towards women has been well documented: in some religions this includes women being considered to be of lesser value than men, affecting their legal status, educational and employment opportunities, rights of inheritance and healthcare.

- Many churches denigrate the gay and lesbian community, claiming their desires and behaviour to be “lifestyle choices”, despite scientific evidence to the contrary. Religious families often shun homosexual children who “come out”. Religious schools are at liberty to expel homosexual students, or to sack homosexual employees. This denigration has real consequences: the suicide rate among young gays and lesbians is significantly higher than that of young heterosexuals.

- Certain Pentecostal churches have duped their followers into making substantial donations, which then fund luxurious lifestyles for church leaders and their families.

- Many cults and sects alienate followers from their families, requiring them to cease all contact with family members who are not members of the cult or sect.

- The vast majority of Australians support some form of voluntary euthanasia, with safeguards, for individuals who are suffering unbearably with little or no hope of improvement. Legislation on this matter, however, has repeatedly failed, thanks to the well-funded lobbying of Christian organisations. The rationale of such opposition is based on ideologies such as the “sanctity of life” and the notion that suffering (through Christ) leads to redemption.

- Improvements in medicine have been hampered by the lobbying of religious groups to outlaw stem cell research.

- Public hospitals run by religious organisations are at liberty to provide reduced services. For example, a rape victim admitted to such a hospital can not only be denied Emergency Contraceptives, but can also be refused a referral to the Rape Crisis Centre where such contraception can be provided.

- Some religions indoctrinate their followers to reject life-saving medical intervention, even for their children. In a recent case, the NSW Supreme Court intervened on behalf of a 17-year-old Jehovah’s Witness who was refusing a blood transfusion. The predicament was that the boy would either suffer psychological trauma from being forced to undergo the procedure, or else would die. As Supreme Court Justice Ian Gzell pointed out, this dilemma had come about simply because the patient had been “cocooned in faith”.

It can easily be seen that the advancement of religion has caused harm with respect to practically all of the examples quoted: damage to mental or physical health, damage to the environment, encouraging violence or hatred towards others, damaging community harmony, or engaging in illegal activities such as vandalism or restricting personal freedom”.(1.50) . In fact no other charitable purpose has such capacity to cause harm. It is inexplicable that with these harms being recognised, the religious purpose is nevertheless exempted from any responsibility for them in the Bill.

It is stated in the definition that a benefit must be available to the public. Limiting the benefits to “followers of a particular religion to which anyone can adhere” (1.53) is still considered a public benefit. However it is not the case that anyone can adhere to particular religions. Some are secretive and exclusive. Belief in another religion or none would also presumably prohibit adherence. This is another unwarranted exclusion of the religious purpose from reasonable criteria.

It is stated in the definition that a benefit should be a public benefit and not a private benefit. “Where there are private benefits, these must be incidental, that is, a necessary minor result or by-product, or conferred as a necessary means of carrying out the entity’s charitable purpose, and be genuine and reasonable (1.57)”. Many of the activities of certain evangelical churches, cults and sects thrive upon soliciting the donations of followers, the leaders acquiring a great deal of private wealth in the process. Again, the religious purpose can often be seen to fail the test specified, and yet remains exempt, without explanation.

The Bill is deliberately drafted to provide such exemption. While the ”presumption of public benefit will not continue to apply where there is evidence to the contrary” (1.66), there is no prospect under this Bill of the religious purpose ever being challenged in this regard, as no likely challenger would have legal standing to do so.

The public benefit test does not apply to religious groups4. The only explanation provided for this is that the religious purpose may not be a public benefit (1.75), or may not be a benefit (1.76). The proposed Bill provides for the quite unwarranted advancement of religion, and in that regard is itself detrimental to the public interest.

Finally, we would mention that the Notes explain that the Bill provides for a disqualifying purpose. The purpose should not run counter to such things as the rule of law, democracy and public safety5. It is known to those who care to take an interest in such things that at the core of certain religious ideologies are doctrines and beliefs that do seek to undermine these values. Not even this, however, would provide any reason under the Bill for the advancement of religion to be in any way inhibited or constrained.

The advancement of religion by government is the antithesis of the ideal of secularism. This Bill effectively terminates secularism in Australia and entrenches its demise. Secularism was devised as the solution to hundreds of years of religious warfare in Europe. This Bill ensures that in the future, Australian society will be characterised by religious division and conflict. We urge you to prevent this by amending the Bill.

Yours sincerely

John Perkins

President, Secular Party of Australia

1 See 1.8. The common law meaning has developed over 400 years, largely based on the Preamble to the Statute of Charitable Uses (known as the Statute of Elizabeth), enacted by the English Parliament in 1601.

2 1.76 There has been some doubt under the common law about whether a closed or contemplative religious order fulfils the public benefit test, and the Bill ensures that such an entity does not fail a public benefit test.

3 1.20 The categories of charitable purpose reflect purposes found by the courts to be charitable. In addition, the Bill incorporates purposes specified in the Extension of Charitable Purpose Act 2004, makes further minor extensions to charitable purposes, and modernises the language and categories.

4 1.74 The public benefit test does not apply in the case of open and non-discriminatory self-help groups and closed or contemplative religious orders that regularly undertake prayerful intervention at the request of members of the public.

5 1.78 The purpose of engaging in activities that are unlawful or contrary to public policy is not a charitable purpose under the common law and is a disqualifying purpose in the Bill. The Bill clarifies that the reference to public policy refers to matters such as the rule of law, the system of government of the Commonwealth, the safety of the general public and national security, and that activities are not contrary to public policy merely because they are contrary to government policy.

Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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What's racist about expecting companies to at least try hiring from the large pool of people in this country eligible to work (citizens or residents) before importing labour from overseas?
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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The guy imported a fucking baker.

Why? It's not rocket science or brain surgery.

If you can't find a baker, then train one.

Deal with the fact you couldn't be bothered to start training staff before you downright needed a new baker, or for not paying staff properly so they would stay, or for being a shit manager who people don't want to work for.

That simple.

We already outsource shitloads of jobs to other countries, now we are going to import workers as well? Without even bothering to train people?

Edited by macktheknife: 19/6/2013 04:28:07 PM
Edited
9 Years Ago by macktheknife
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Gary Hardgrave ‏@GaryHardgrave
Latest: PM clears her diary for a cuppa with GG tomorrow. Eventually one of these whispers will be right.

Gary works here at 4BC in Brissy
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9 Years Ago by WaMackie
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Small numbers of refugees in Australia: UN

Australia hosted just 0.3 per cent of the world's refugees by the end of the 2012, the United Nation says.

Of the 88,600 refugees resettled around the world in last year, Australia took 5900 while the United States resettled the most refugees by far at 66,300, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) report said.

Out of 9.9 million registered refugees worldwide, only 30,000 were in Australia, or 0.3 per cent, while Pakistan hosted 1.6 million people, or 17 per cent of the global total.

Australia's UNHCR representative Richard Towle says about 23,000 people were forced to flee their homes every day last year, which is more than the total number seeking asylum in Australia in the whole of 2012.


"This reminds us that the number of refugees and asylum seekers in Australia remains relatively small by global standards," he said in a statement on Wednesday.

More than 12,000 people have arrived by boat this year.

But the report shows the overwhelming majority of displaced people turned to developing countries, which hosted more than 80 per cent of the world's refugees.

Pakistan and Iran accounted for a quarter.

"It's difficult for them to look after their own community let alone help out millions of people over their borders and yet they do it," Mr Towle said.

Meanwhile, almost 650,000 refugees fled Syria's civil war in 2012 - the largest exodus of people in a year since the Kosovo war.

That number has now soared to around 1.6 million, surpassing last year's total from all conflicts.

And without a resolution to the conflict soon, Mr Towle warns that number could double by the end of the year.

The UNHCR data showed an extra 7.6 million people were displaced globally in 2012, including 1.1 million new refugees, mainly due to conflicts or persecution.

By the end of 2012, there were 45.2 million forcibly displaced people worldwide, of which 15.4 million were refugees.

AAP



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/small-numbers-of-refugees-in-australia-un-20130619-2oisu.html#ixzz2WeV4ByE2
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9 Years Ago by Joffa
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RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............


And if a fruit farmer can prove this, then they will be allowed to bring in a 457. I don't understand your point.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............


And if a fruit farmer can prove this, then they will be allowed to bring in a 457. I don't understand your point.



well as i understand it under the legislation Gillard wants to push through, the farmer would have to continually advertise for a period of 6 months prior to making application for foreign workers and then once approval is granted the farmer can then employ foreign workers....
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............


And if a fruit farmer can prove this, then they will be allowed to bring in a 457. I don't understand your point.



well as i understand it under the legislation Gillard wants to push through, the farmer would have to continually advertise for a period of 6 months prior to making application for foreign workers and then once approval is granted the farmer can then employ foreign workers....


They better start now then to be ready for summer.

People are also misunderstanding what is happening here. It is not Aussies vs Foreigners, it is people that are eligible to work in Australia (including img foreign visa holders such as students & working holiday makers) vs foreigners that do not currently have a visa and are not currently in the country,
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............


And if a fruit farmer can prove this, then they will be allowed to bring in a 457. I don't understand your point.



well as i understand it under the legislation Gillard wants to push through, the farmer would have to continually advertise for a period of 6 months prior to making application for foreign workers and then once approval is granted the farmer can then employ foreign workers....


They better start now then to be ready for summer.

People are also misunderstanding what is happening here. It is not Aussies vs Foreigners, it is people that are eligible to work in Australia (including img foreign visa holders such as students & working holiday makers) vs foreigners that do not currently have a visa and are not currently in the country,




it's not practical to advertise 6 months before a position is available........and a part time casual basis is even harder to predict
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............


And if a fruit farmer can prove this, then they will be allowed to bring in a 457. I don't understand your point.



well as i understand it under the legislation Gillard wants to push through, the farmer would have to continually advertise for a period of 6 months prior to making application for foreign workers and then once approval is granted the farmer can then employ foreign workers....


They better start now then to be ready for summer.

People are also misunderstanding what is happening here. It is not Aussies vs Foreigners, it is people that are eligible to work in Australia (including img foreign visa holders such as students & working holiday makers) vs foreigners that do not currently have a visa and are not currently in the country,




it's not practical to advertise 6 months before a position is available........and a part time casual basis is even harder to predict


I worked with international students that had their names on the fruit picking waiting lists 12 months in advance.

This is a fictional barrier to argue against a sensible piece of legislation put forward by an unpopular government.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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The unemployment rate is not really 5.5%. The ABS does not factor in king term unemployed, or people that would like work, but have given up and ended up on pensions.

Real unemployment is more around the 9% mark, and then when you factor in underemployment the job seeker rate is more around 16-17%.

There is no shortage of unskilled labor. Our ageing population is retiring later because its more expensive than ever to retire comfortably. Where someone would have retired in the past at 50-55, workers are sticking around until 65+ just so that they can be comfortable when they do retire. This creates a lack of turnover in jobs for young, skilled people to fill... Forcing younger workers into fields unrelated to their education base.

If we're talking specialised roles that are genuinely hard to fill, then the legislation caters for this. The overriding point is that a 457 should be the last point of call, not the first.

Which point of mine was adequately shot down, by the way?
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Whats wrong with bringing someone foreign in if the company deems them a better candidate. Companies deserve the right to chose their own candidates whether theyre Australian or not.


Bollocks.

There is fuck all reason to import non-specialty foreign workers other than to save costs through exploiting people who will work for less than someone eligible to work in Australia.

Really defending the indefensible on this one.



Can't generalise on this one i'm afraid......how would we get the fruit picked if we didn't use foreign labor........no aussie is going to work doing that job, it's common knowledge that the farmers can't get picking staff..............


And if a fruit farmer can prove this, then they will be allowed to bring in a 457. I don't understand your point.



well as i understand it under the legislation Gillard wants to push through, the farmer would have to continually advertise for a period of 6 months prior to making application for foreign workers and then once approval is granted the farmer can then employ foreign workers....


They better start now then to be ready for summer.

People are also misunderstanding what is happening here. It is not Aussies vs Foreigners, it is people that are eligible to work in Australia (including img foreign visa holders such as students & working holiday makers) vs foreigners that do not currently have a visa and are not currently in the country,




it's not practical to advertise 6 months before a position is available........and a part time casual basis is even harder to predict


I worked with international students that had their names on the fruit picking waiting lists 12 months in advance.

This is a fictional barrier to argue against a sensible piece of legislation put forward by an unpopular government.



i call bullshit....this is just anecdotal evidence and is no proof of the legitimacy of the legislation......

not sensible legislation if it disadvantages Australian businesses...it's a barrier forcing unproductive useless unionists ahead of others and is a racist vendetta

Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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Fair point on my anecdote, I retract.

Still, a couple of questions.

How does this legislation disadvantage business other than asking them not to exploit cheap foreign unskilled labor markets?
How does this legislation promote unions when it says nothing about unions?
How is this legislation racist when it says nothing about nationality or ethnicity of a worker?
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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And although I retract, I disagree that it's difficult for a fruit farmer to predict that he/she will be picking fruit during fruit picking season.

Have a little bit of respect for the intelligence of local producers, please.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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