The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese


The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese

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mcjules
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macktheknife wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
rusty wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
mcjules wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
Looking forward to this thread being full of the Tony Abbott backflips and broken promises (y)

I'll accept a backflip on the NBN and the carbon tax. In fact I might even do this =d>

Speaking of the NBN, do we know if they need to pass legislation through parliament to change it? I have a feeling they don't but if they do it'd be worth finding out the minor parties positions on it.

The NBN is a legislative endeavour so will require legislation to alter. Senate may very well block any changes.

Also it will be more expensive to alter it than to just finish the project, not that that has been an impediment to stupid government decisions in the past.


Refer to a recent ZDnet article they don't need to pass legislation to change it.

Really? Could you link it please, I was of the understanding that it would require a legislative change as the original NBN was set up under legislature.


They can just stop funding NBNco.

Found this article from March:
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/456056/what_future_nbn_under_coalition_/?

Won't copy paste the whole thing in because it's quite long but the guy they asked (some lecturer at Monash):
* How much they can change depends on how the contracts have been written up
* They can't dismantle NBN co without legislative change

Interesting but still don't hold much hope.

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

Edited
9 Years Ago by mcjules
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thupercoach wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Really worth the read:

Quote:
AS a public personality, our new prime minister is an involuntary paradox. On the one hand, Tony Abbott is one of the most discussed people in Australia. On the other, much of the discussion is so ill-informed that it conceals, rather than illuminates.
For this, we largely have to thank Labor and its more enthusiastic media boosters. For years, they have peddled a cardboard caricature of Abbott so simplistic and so pervasive that you could hide either a saint or a psychopath beneath its shade. In one sense, the very unfairness of this treatment probably has helped Abbott enormously.
A plausible thesis is that large sections of the population actually have been convinced that he is scary, but having decided to vote for him anyway, have tuned out of the election. Labors problem being that once you have sold someone as a monster, but he still seems preferable to you, where do you go?
Yet the reality is that Abbott almost certainly is one of the most complex individuals ever to hold supreme political office in Australia. Even considered solely as a bundle of conundrums, he is the proverbial politician with enough material to ground an entire conference.
Consider. Here we have a Rhodes Scholar and no, Kevin Rudd never got one of those who genuinely likes to call people mate and hit bushfires with blankets. A deeply religious man, who is massively pragmatic, both philosophically and temperamentally. A social conservative whose rightism does not necessarily extend very far into economics, and who is personally deeply tolerant. All this, plus being the opponent of same-sex marriage with a gay sister whom he deeply loves, and the constitutionally conservative monarchist who probably will put indigenous recognition into the Constitution.
This is not material to be reduced to yet another yawningly predictable Tandberg cartoon, although it might conceivably serve for a quirky collaboration between Shakespeare and Woody Allen. Bizarrely, this kaleidoscopic political personality has been obscured behind a simplistic and desperate attempt to convince us that Abbott is unelectable, a cause that ultimately has proved as pointless as its assumptions were myopic.
Now we are left to discover the persona of our prime minister after his election. It is worth pausing to consider just how vile some of these tactics were, if only because they are far from over. The best example is Abbotts much vaunted Catholicism, an apparently fatal character flaw he shares with this writer.
Most of us rightly were appalled when Julia Gillard was vilified on the grounds of her gender, less often than was claimed by her supporters, but more frequently than is conceded by her detractors. We were particularly upset when she was characterised as a witch, with all the negative female stereotyping this carried.
Yet many commentators routinely parody Abbott as Father Tony, Captain Catholic or most commonly The Mad Monk. Exactly why is religious vilification more acceptable than misogyny, and which part of the character of the appalling Grigori Rasputin is to be ascribed to Anthony Abbott? I suppose the imputation of giant genitalia might at least be considered flattering.
The reality is that Abbott will be influenced by his Catholicism in the same way as Gillard was influenced by her womanhood and Bob Hawke was influenced by his agnosticism: it will contextualise, but not define him. So Abbott will not move to outlaw abortion or criminalise contraception. He will not grant favours to his Catholic mates. Cardinal George Pell will not become Minister for Foreign Affairs.
But if we want to ponder things actually worth thinking about, it is a fair bet that Abbotts sympathy with indigenous people has something to do with his exposure to Catholic social justice theory. It also is highly likely that someone formed by the Jesuits is going to place at least a passing value on education. And anyone trying to predict Abbotts industrial stance would be well advised to at least factor in some fairly interesting Catholic intellectualism on the legitimate place of trade unions, as well as Hayek.
This type of analysis is important because we not only have a particularly interesting Liberal prime minister, but a particularly interesting Coalition government. This is not the old caricature of a club of capitalists leavened with a syndicate of squatters. This will be a government seeking to marshal some very different trains of thought.
At one end, you genuinely do have a bundle of significant players who have indeed been culturally and intellectually influenced by among many other things their Catholic origins. These include Abbott himself, Joe Hockey, Andrew Robb, Barnaby Joyce and Christopher Pyne. To describe these as comprising the DLP wing of the Coalition is crude, even assuming the average journalist knew what the DLP was or stood for.
But to say that all share certain critical assumptions as to the intrinsic value of individual human beings and their right to express that individual humanity is merely to express an obvious truth. Considering where this might lead an Abbott government is the sort of character analysis that actually is interesting, as opposed to self-confirmatory condescension.
It also is worth asking how such tendencies will mesh with more libertarian elements of the party, whose view of individual freedom tends to type people as integers permitted to roam merely within the boundaries of vast economic equations.
The potential difference of assumptions and outcomes in such fields as education, health and social policy here are vast. One should not necessarily assume that Tony Abbott is more conservative here than a Malcolm Turnbull or a Greg Hunt, or even what conservative means in such a context.
An intriguing question is how Abbott the personality will fare in office. It is a reasonable bet that for at least three reasons, he will have a better time as prime minister than as opposition leader. First, there is such mild respectability as doth hedge about a prime minister. Second, no matter how hard he tries, he cannot possibly live up to Labors horror story. Inevitably, Labors own self-serving script will reveal Abbott if not as a hero, then at least as an improbable improver.
Finally, there is an eccentricity about Abbott which, if handled judiciously, could become endearing. In the same way as Jeff Kennett became at least for a period Our Jeff, even to Victorians who would not willingly have let him into their house, there is a real possibility that Australians will come to own, if not universally love, Tony Abbott.
The giveaway was the Dad moment. In a campaign where every shot of a leader was backed by a bevy of nodders who would benignly approve even the announcement that we were invading China, the eye-rolling (but loving) disdain of one of the Abbott daughters for her idiot father was genuinely bracing.
Who knows? Labor may catch on, with the parties vying for which group of supporters may most graphically express their sincerity with sighs, groans and even the odd rotten tomato directed towards their own candidate.
Welcome to the real complexity of the court of King Tony, definitely the First.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/opinion/greg-craven-the-tony-abbott-i-know/story-fnh4jt54-1226714687111#ixzz2eIsQPKTc
To the two-dimensional characters on here he'll be coming round to your house with a meat cleaver to murder your children.

A very good read actually.


Yes but it's newscorp part of ruperts plans to take over the world and stuff. Only fairfax character assassinations of tony can be trusted for their intellectual merit and journalistic integrity.
Edited
9 Years Ago by rusty
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thupercoach wrote:
Loving the butthurt. Abbott has been character assassinated for three years and people saw through the bs enough to vote Liberal anyway.


Except that they didn't, to a large degree. They voted PUP or informal. Primary LNP votes increased modestly at best.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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notorganic wrote:
rusty wrote:
notorganic wrote:
RedKat wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
Looking forward to this thread being full of the Tony Abbott backflips and broken promises (y)


Looking forward to this thread being three years of complete and utter bitching and whinging and people continually outdoing each other with more overly dramatic ways to insult Abbott. Its already started


After all the irrational & shrill noise over a government that was essentially competence with governance, but had a major ego & image problem, Phony Tony deserves to be held to account right down to the direction he wipes his arse.

It's going to be a fun 3 years.


Competence with governance? You obviously have very low expectations of our parliament.


Is ok dude. The election is over, the slogans without substance can stop now. Please stop.


You're right it's time for a new way.
Edited
9 Years Ago by rusty
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mcjules wrote:
macktheknife wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
rusty wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
mcjules wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
Looking forward to this thread being full of the Tony Abbott backflips and broken promises (y)

I'll accept a backflip on the NBN and the carbon tax. In fact I might even do this =d>

Speaking of the NBN, do we know if they need to pass legislation through parliament to change it? I have a feeling they don't but if they do it'd be worth finding out the minor parties positions on it.

The NBN is a legislative endeavour so will require legislation to alter. Senate may very well block any changes.

Also it will be more expensive to alter it than to just finish the project, not that that has been an impediment to stupid government decisions in the past.


Refer to a recent ZDnet article they don't need to pass legislation to change it.

Really? Could you link it please, I was of the understanding that it would require a legislative change as the original NBN was set up under legislature.


They can just stop funding NBNco.

Found this article from March:
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/456056/what_future_nbn_under_coalition_/?

Won't copy paste the whole thing in because it's quite long but the guy they asked (some lecturer at Monash):
* How much they can change depends on how the contracts have been written up
* They can't dismantle NBN co without legislative change

Interesting but still don't hold much hope.

Cheers, been drinking whiskey and playing Dungeon Defenders with notor so can no longer process shit. Going to make pizza now (y)

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Edited
9 Years Ago by General Ashnak
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General Ashnak wrote:
mcjules wrote:
macktheknife wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
rusty wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
mcjules wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
Looking forward to this thread being full of the Tony Abbott backflips and broken promises (y)

I'll accept a backflip on the NBN and the carbon tax. In fact I might even do this =d>

Speaking of the NBN, do we know if they need to pass legislation through parliament to change it? I have a feeling they don't but if they do it'd be worth finding out the minor parties positions on it.

The NBN is a legislative endeavour so will require legislation to alter. Senate may very well block any changes.

Also it will be more expensive to alter it than to just finish the project, not that that has been an impediment to stupid government decisions in the past.


Refer to a recent ZDnet article they don't need to pass legislation to change it.

Really? Could you link it please, I was of the understanding that it would require a legislative change as the original NBN was set up under legislature.


They can just stop funding NBNco.

Found this article from March:
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/456056/what_future_nbn_under_coalition_/?

Won't copy paste the whole thing in because it's quite long but the guy they asked (some lecturer at Monash):
* How much they can change depends on how the contracts have been written up
* They can't dismantle NBN co without legislative change

Interesting but still don't hold much hope.

Cheers, been drinking whiskey and playing Dungeon Defenders with notor so can no longer process shit. Going to make pizza now (y)

=d> jealous.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Eastern Glory
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:lol: the mrs talks up a massive liberal game for weeks, slams everyone on fb for having their Gen Y whinges about how evil liberal is, talks up the maternity leave liberal are giving, etc..

Votes labour
Edited
9 Years Ago by pv4
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notorganic wrote:
batfink wrote:
notorganic wrote:
It's not surprising that the biggest swing away from Labor was not a swing towards the LNP.

Abbott is PM by default. This result is not a vindication of him and his party.



Hmmm..strange take on things???

on the AEC web page it's stats are Labor HAD 72 seat and now have 57 so a loss of 15 seats,
and the coalition HAD 73 seat and now have 88 an increase of 15 seats???

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


I'm sorry that the concept of more than 2 parties being available for Australians to vote for is too abstract for you to grasp.


Please Matt try if you can to keep it on topic and civil......

my reply was commenting on the FACT that the ALP lost 15 seats and the coalition gained 15 seats....?
Edited
9 Years Ago by batfink
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TBH I don't fully understand the whole "swing" and all that garbage (and don't think I want to, or have to) - but if labour lost 15 seats and liberal gained 15 seats, I wouldn't say Liberal "won by default". I'd say Liberal replaced Labour in exactly 15 seats - aka overtook them, aka beat them.

Whether Liberal won by default or not - there's two major parties in Australia and one of them was so royally fxxxed that they "achieved" the worst vote in 100 years or something. Call Liberal whatever you want - to have such a shocking result, Labour must have HUGE problems.
Edited
9 Years Ago by pv4
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pv4 wrote:
:lol: the mrs talks up a massive liberal game for weeks, slams everyone on fb for having their Gen Y whinges about how evil liberal is, talks up the maternity leave liberal are giving, etc..

Votes labour

Looks like you've shacked yourself up with a troll :lol:

I can't talk though, my mrs voted for Putin :-$
Edited
9 Years Ago by paladisious
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Abbott's 12-point plan to transform Australia

Robert Gottliebsen38 min ago
PoliticsNational AffairsIndustriesFamily BusinessSmall Business (SME)EconomyLeadershipTax

The 2013 election result will totally change the Australian nation. The Coalition plans one of the most dramatic transformations of the nation that we have seen for decades. And most of the changes will either not require legislation or the minor parties will support the legislation. Accordingly, Senate control is not vital in most areas, except for the “double dissolution” issues of carbon tax and the end to the building industry cartel-style agreements. For what it is worth I can’t imagine that the ALP has an appetite for an election on the carbon tax and/or the building cartel-style agreements. Australians hate early elections and the ALP will almost certainly be even more savagely mauled than on September 7. But stranger things have happened.

I am going to list 12 fundamental changes that will take place in the wake of a Coalition victory – six will be covered today and six tomorrow. In many of the changes you will discover a surprising thrust – in the six years of opposition the Coalition has shifted from being a big business party to more of a small business party because during those six years the large corporations turned their back on the Coalition and (unsuccessfully) wooed the ALP government. And so we are going to see a number of large organisations become critical of Tony Abbott and the new government. But they are too late. They will need to adapt to this new style of government.

In Australia election campaigns are about politics. After the election comes the government.

And so the 2013 election campaign was mainly confined to politics and few of the plans of the Coalition were debated.

Regular readers of my commentary will know that I have been describing some of the Coalition plans but I have been stunned that there has been so little coverage of them in the wider media.

Last week I was yarning to the chief executive of one of our largest corporations, who had no idea of how the Coalition’s plans would affect his business and particularly his industrial relations.

He turned out to be very pleased. If that CEO didn’t understand the Coalition’s plans then I am sure that the vast majority of the population are in the same boat.

And so I will start the 2013 agenda for the 44th parliament with six ways the Coalition plans to transform the nation. And then tomorrow there will be another six.

Change number 1

This is a government that is about fostering small business, with the small business minister (and small business crusader) Bruce Billson in the inner cabinet. That’s where the proposed increased employment will be generated. And nothing illustrates that better than the fact that there will be a company tax reduction of 1.5 per cent to 28. Five cents in a dollar but the largest 3,200 tax payers will need to pay a levy equal to the tax cut. In other words they will receive no benefit at all from the tax reduction and indeed their shareholders will receive less franking credits than they did before. This sets the tone. There will be more actions like that.

Change 2 (very little legislation required)

The Coalition plans the biggest de-regulation exercise ever attempted in Australia. Many will believe the public service will slow the Coalition and the de-regulation will not take place. That is possible but I simply don’t believe it. The Coalition shadow cabinet ministers have built themselves into a frenzy of de-regulation preparation. It stuns me that the previous government didn’t press Tony Abbott much harder to explain what regulations are going to be abandoned because with each regulation there is a whole series of vested interests that will be very upset when they discover that their pet regulation has been abolished. And with every regulation comes a group if of public servants who will need to find other work. There has been the most enormous rise in the cost of doing business in Australia in the last decade and in many areas regulation has been a bigger contributor than industrial relations. The final years of the Howard government plus the six years of ALP government contributed to this rise in regulation that is now going to be wound back, and wound back dramatically. All businesses that are being affected by regulation should be contacting the government at whatever level they have access – from local member up. While the first and second year’s deregulation is in place there is always room for more, especially if it saves government money.

Change 3

(the required legislation will be almost certainly supported by minor parties): A pivotal policy of the Abbott government is to extend the protection offered to consumers against unfair contracts to small business. Most large companies and organisations will need to completely re-write the bulk of their contracts. Few have made preparation. Earlier this year I illustrated the sort deregulation and fair contract issues that will come up (Abbott shrugs off Labor’s small business squeeze, January 15).

There will be an enormous lobby campaign to prevent the Coalition undertaking the ‘fair contract’ measure. Kevin Rudd had such action in his 2007 program but the lobbyists won and he abandoned it. The most vigorous opposition will come from shopping centres and franchise groups. Both are afraid that the way they contract with their tenants and franchisees simply won’t pass any fairness test. So expect a series of articles warning of the dangers of this action. Will the Coalition buckle? It has been a clear policy over the last six years – I don’t think so.

Change 4

The fringe benefits tax will give a huge boost to the motor industry and help those who work for charities, hospitals and public service but will not necessarily save the motor making industry and in particular General Motors. Most of the FBT demand comes to Ford (which is closing its plant) and Toyota. A really smart thing for the government to do would be to link the FBT concession to cars made in Australia but I am not sure the Coalition are going to do that. There certainly has been no announcement.

Change 5

Tony Abbott wants to be known as ‘Mr Infrastructure’ so you can expect infrastructure projects around the country. There is simply not enough spare taxpayer dollars to fund the level of infrastructure that the Coalition wants to push forward with. It is going to be necessary to tap the superannuation movement for capital and issue securities that do not carry very high risks. The problem is that many of the users of infrastructure, like car owners, health beneficiaries and those using public transport will not take kindly to the ‘user pays’ principle, which underlines the infrastructure securities that are set to be issued to superannuation funds. People have come to expect these services to be funded out of tax revenue and not superannuation revenue, which involves a charge for capital. We will have major debate about this but Australia needs massive infrastructure investment to improve its productivity to offset the decline in mining investment. The government will need to tap the self-managed funds, which collectively have now become the largest players in superannuation (about 31 per cent of the funds under management) eclipsing industry funds and other providers.

Change 6 (Legislation required, which will be difficult):

There will be a totally new approach to carbon management and companies will be invited to tender for government money to reduce their carbon. The plan is that the investment will be shared between the government and the corporations/organisations and those that offer the best tenders will be rewarded with a government aid package on the basis of their tender. But they don’t get the money until they reduce the carbon, although once they have achieved their objective there is an ironclad guarantee. If it can be done, abolishing the carbon tax will be an enormous boost to many businesses. For example it has cost Qantas over $100 million dollars. All around the world employment has become more important than the carbon. This will not always be the case but it is the way it is now and that fact is underlined by our election result. The carbon community say that the government has not allowed enough money to make the direct action plan to work. They may be right but it is much too early to say. It will, however, create a new carbon consensus in the community that makes far more sense than a carbon tax introduced at a time when the price of electricity was already going up dramatically.

Tomorrow’s six more changes including the new investment outlook, how Clive Palmer can help Australia and how the Coalition will revamp industrial relations and employment for all enterprises but NOT by returning to WorkChoices.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/9/9/politics/abbotts-12-point-plan-transform-australia?
Edited
9 Years Ago by Joffa
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paladisious wrote:
pv4 wrote:
:lol: the mrs talks up a massive liberal game for weeks, slams everyone on fb for having their Gen Y whinges about how evil liberal is, talks up the maternity leave liberal are giving, etc..

Votes labour

Looks like you've shacked yourself up with a troll :lol:

I can't talk though, my mrs voted for Putin :-$


:lol: weirdest thing is she's over the moon liberal won.

She tried explaining to me why she voted labour, still makes no sense to me.

My seat is so labour-safe that it all doesn't mean anything anyway, so whatevs homie.

Proud to say I voted for Palmer United :cool:
Edited
9 Years Ago by pv4
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pv4 wrote:
Proud to say I voted for Palmer United :cool:


Edited
9 Years Ago by paladisious
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Edited
9 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Proud to say I voted for Palmer United :cool:



#runatme #freedomofspeech
Edited
9 Years Ago by pv4
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TONY DIDN'T STOP THE BOATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jaymes Diaz clearly isn't the only one who doesn't know the steps, because another boat of asylum seekers arrived today!



#VotedGreens and not even mad.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Eastern Glory
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notorganic wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Loving the butthurt. Abbott has been character assassinated for three years and people saw through the bs enough to vote Liberal anyway.


Except that they didn't, to a large degree. They voted PUP or informal. Primary LNP votes increased modestly at best.


You have to applaud the Labor faithful for trying to convince us the Libs didn't win the election. Great stuff.=d>
Edited
9 Years Ago by rusty
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Eastern Glory wrote:
TONY DIDN'T STOP THE BOATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jaymes Diaz clearly isn't the only one who doesn't know the steps, because another boat of asylum seekers arrived today!


Mr Rudd is still caretaker PM until Abbott is sworn in.
Edited
9 Years Ago by rusty
zimbos_05
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433 wrote:
I'm 98% sure that he's trolling.


I am too, but it still sums up the way most people thought about this when they decided to vote Liberal.
Edited
9 Years Ago by zimbos_05
notorganic
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rusty wrote:
notorganic wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
Loving the butthurt. Abbott has been character assassinated for three years and people saw through the bs enough to vote Liberal anyway.


Except that they didn't, to a large degree. They voted PUP or informal. Primary LNP votes increased modestly at best.


You have to applaud the Labor faithful for trying to convince us the Libs didn't win the election. Great stuff.=d>


:lol: "Labor faithful"

I made it pretty clear who I voted for. It wasn't the ALP in either house and hasn't been for 3 election cycles, state or federal.

I'm sorry that you and Batfink are so blinded by your devotion to the party to understand the point that I'm making.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
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Three of my mates apparently thought it was a good idea to vote below the line, but have two boxes the same number. As in, instead of say 22 and 23 they had two 22s. Apparently they did it on purpose to fxxx with the minds of the counters or something.

Will that be classed as an invalid vote, as in their papers are just thrown in the bin?
Edited
9 Years Ago by pv4
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Also can this thread name be changed to:

The Australian Politics thread: Rudd OUT -----> Abbott IN
Edited
9 Years Ago by pv4
notorganic
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pv4 wrote:
Three of my mates apparently thought it was a good idea to vote below the line, but have two boxes the same number. As in, instead of say 22 and 23 they had two 22s. Apparently they did it on purpose to fxxx with the minds of the counters or something.

Will that be classed as an invalid vote, as in their papers are just thrown in the bin?


Yep, that's an informal vote.
Edited
9 Years Ago by notorganic
Eastern Glory
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rusty wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
TONY DIDN'T STOP THE BOATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jaymes Diaz clearly isn't the only one who doesn't know the steps, because another boat of asylum seekers arrived today!


Mr Rudd is still caretaker PM until Abbott is sworn in.


:-$
Edited
9 Years Ago by Eastern Glory
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notorganic wrote:
:lol: "Labor faithful"

I made it pretty clear who I voted for. It wasn't the ALP in either house and hasn't been for 3 election cycles, state or federal.

I'm sorry that you and Batfink are so blinded by your devotion to the party to understand the point that I'm making.


Well lets be honest Notor the point you are making is you are really upset Liberals WON the election. The point Thuper is making is despite the desperate attempts of Labor and the fairfax media to portray Abbott as a demon he still WON the election, you are just trying to cherry pick certain bits of data to present the false and misleading case that this was not a DECISIVE LIBERAL VICTORY. It was - you just have to look at the number of seats they claimed compared to every other party - the facts DO NOT lie. You need to stop kidding yourself, and I have no idea who you voted for and I don't really care.
Edited
9 Years Ago by rusty
girtXc
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pv4 wrote:
Also can this thread name be changed to:

The Australian Politics thread: Rudd OUT -----> Abbott IN

Edited
9 Years Ago by girtXc
Eastern Glory
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girtXc wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Also can this thread name be changed to:

The Australian Politics thread: Rudd OUT -----> Abbott IN

Labor OUT -----> Liberal IN


This ain't America son. We vote for parties.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Eastern Glory
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What's the odds of a double dissolution?
The coalition would back themselves to pick up a bigger majority with Shorten or Albanese at the helm
Edited
9 Years Ago by girtXc
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So, everyone ready for a recession?
Edited
9 Years Ago by afromanGT
paulbagzFC
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Can't believe Tony used the same quote as Howard in his speech lol.

And when the fuck did he get a 12 point plan Joffa? :lol:

Can't wait to see the pic of him shaking hands with the likes of Obama etc.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

Edited
9 Years Ago by paulbagzFC
GO


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