The key word about the Interim NBN Satellite Service is Interim. It was incredibly bad for consumers in outback/rural areas prior to it being brought in.

Once the real NBN Satellite service goes in it's likely that many people on Satellite & Wireless parts of the NBN will get better speeds than a lot of people who get stuck with the copper FTTN shit if it ever gets built.

Yeah, my rents are on NBN Sat now, used to be on IPStar previously.

It's not bad, but when it jumps to 25mbps it will be hilarious as rural locales will have speeds the same if not better than those on FTTN :lol:

-PB

This isn't true. The FTTN models they are trialing are delivering speeds in excess of 100mbps up to 400m. Once you employ vectoring and G fast they are seeing speeds exceeding 300mbps. On the other hand the 2 x satellites they are launching will deliver maximum speeds of 25mbps per second, that is the lowest speed FTTN will guarantee.

You must feel terrible for rural folk, the fate of the world hinges on everybody getting 1gbps minimum and all they're getting is paltry 25 meg. Talk about a digital divide.

Clearly you're just pulling numbers out of your ass now. In the past ten years Australia has settled well over 100,000 refugees, that's more than the forth ranked nation (Sweden) has settled in double that period. The 55,000 refers to only those resettled through the UNHCR program only, the rest is made up onshore arrivals and special humanitarian placement. And when you combine all three Australia ranks THIRD IN THE WORLD for permanently resettling refugees, no mean feat for a country just over 20 mill.

You're just not fit to criticise Australia's humanitarian efforts when you have such a twisted , infantile understanding of the statistics.

You wont be laughing very hard because the satellite service will be comparable to an ADSL or ADSL2+. FTTN will be delivering speeds of 25mpbs as a MINIMUM, the vast majority will get faster than that, and you can always upgrade to a full fibre run if you want, it just means you pay for it not me.

Just because there are people who say "FTTN is shit" doesn't mean it's slow. Obviously it's not in the same class as FTTH but that doesn't mean it isn't value for money, or that FTTH isn't terrible value for money.

So when I prove you wrong using YOUR SOURCE from the AUSTRALIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL showing THEIR STATISTICS, I'm apparently using the UNHCR's statistics and have a twisted and infantile understanding.

Are you completely mentally deficient? Do you have any brain function at all? That 55,000 was an approximation based on the grant rate for the total of 74,437 applications received from 2002-2012 according to the Australian Refugee Council on the page which YOU linked to.

We had six years of embarrassing failures, treachery and backflips from the previous government, it probably can't get much worse. It's time to stop being so OCD about our how other countries perceive and focus on getting our domestic policies and situation right. Individually we are the richest people on earth and I can assure you most countries envy us.

Where exactly did you "prove me wrong" Afro. You posted a link which refers only those who are currently recognised as refugees, but not resettled. Once you factor in those who have been resettled, as per the link, our contribution doesn't look so bad after all. Once again we place THIRD IN THE WORLD for resettling refugees permanently, we resettle more refugees every two years than 98% of the world resettles in two decades.

I have no idea where you pulled the 74,437 asylum application from. or the 45/95% of transport mode and somehow figured from that the "grant rate" was 75%, to come up with your bogus 55,000 arrivals, it's just shocking attempt at statistical analysis. Asylum applications obviously don't include those resettled through the UNCHR or SHP, neither do we grant visas to 45% of boat arrivals. Your numbers are all over the palace and idiotically arranged to support your foolish worthless argument. You're just making yourself look like a total moron.

Edited by rusty: 17/11/2013 11:46:46 AM

All the g.fast and vectoring in the world won't help if you're stuck on shit rotting copper, or aluminium lines, or if it rains, of if your copper diameter is too small.

It will be, like all copper technology, 'up to'. It will be best effort, on a dodgy, decaying copper network that's owned by Telstra.

Your last line is hilarious.

Yes it's a digital divide. But that digital divide would be 93% of the country having available 1000/400 (and ever higher speeds as time goes on) and 7% can get 25/5, and hopefully as wireless technology improves, the 4% on fixed wireless can get better speeds as well, while some will be living in towns that grow and eventually get upgraded to FTTP.

That is far better that the current and future (under FTTN) digital divide which is some people get 100/2.5 on HFC, some very lucky people get 25/1 on ADSL2+, some get half that or less on the same ADSL2+ because their copper is crap, some get 8/1 on ADSL2, others get 1.5/negligible on ADSL, some can't get ADSL at all because they are on a RIM or pair gain, some have to use dialup, while others get stuck on horrendously expensive mobile wireless, while others get poor speed satellite, while others get stuck in monopolistic gouging greenfields developer FTTP installs.

All for the low low price of slightly less* than it would cost to build the NBN.

*Assuming Telstra hands over their copper network to the Government for free. Because we all know a company like Telstra will just hand over a network they own, and that the Government needs for political purposes and because it's the cornerstone of a FTTN network, for $0.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/abbotts-broken-commitments-so-many-so-soon,5898

A list of broken Abbott promises so far.

What scum.

Also, Thanks to the superiority of the copper network, what used to be a very stable internet connection at my house yesterday died after the copper connecting my house to the telstra network eroded to the point of no return.

Thank goodness that the coalition has decided to sink so many billions of dollars into maintaining this future proof technology.

You have to be an extremely optimistic person to believe despite all the revised targets and setbacks the nbn will meet to financial targets. It's incredulous how anyone can deceive themselves into thinking FTTH will cost near or the same as FTTN, when it's globally industry accepted FTTN costs 1/3 to 1/5 and the roll out times are much faster. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the cost and time savings involved NOT having to send a government contractor in to run fibre from the street into your premise, install a new NTD and battery back up and thoroughly test the connection which costs a fucking shitload as well as a logistical nighmare.

The cost analysis of actual global FTTN v FTTH builds clearly trumps less plausible local "analysis" on sites such as whirlpool full of armchair technologists and pretend economists. I actually feel a bit sick mentioning a credible word such as economics in the same sentence as whirlpool which thinks of itself as having a monopoly on sound policy development. You just have to accept what the real experts have to say about this than the local, mostly unqualified local gamer crowd.

As for g fast and vectoring it probably won't help much on rotting copper, but most copper in australia isn't rotting. Most copper is under 30 years due to rolling remediation of the network and much of the "problem" copper is connected in bunches closer to the exchange, which will be replaced by fibre under the coalitions scheme. I haven't seen any evidence to indicate the network is substantially "decaying", I think this is just a scare tactic by people who want fibre really bad and have little concept of responsible fiscal management.

How do you know it's the coppers fault? Call your ISP it might be a technical fault. Or if is is the copper you should get it remediation by Telstra due their USO. My copper works great by the way, hasn't missed a beat.

Thanks for that technical assessment, Tony Stark.

I have been in my new house in a suburban area for nearly 5 months now and still can't get wired internet cause the exchange is full. Been having to use the shitty grossly expensive wireless network.

FTTP WAS going to be a god send.

Whirlpool; armchair technologists :lol:

Oh dear rusty :lol:

List me the real "technologists" and economists that have said FTTN is a good idea.

-PB

As for not rotting, copper in my street is more than 30 years old, my line back to the exchange is not more than 400m and my sync rate was barely 4mbps.

Telstra barely maintain this shit as it is. The government will be paying an overpriced amount for incredibly shit infrastructure.

-PB

Yeah that. Majority of people get no where need the speeds they should because of the shitty network.

You will probably get fixed internet much quicker now the coalition are in, otherwise you might've been waiting 10-15 years were it still labor. I wouldn't call the wireless network "shitty", I get 40mbps on Telstra 4G 40kms from the CBD.

You may have a point but 10-15 years is such a gross over exaggeration.

While the speeds for most aren't the greatest especially during peak hour times the shitty was more in reference to price and the amount of usage you get.

And what CBD would that be?

Guessing some Metro state capital?

Try going to other towns/cities to see how congested 4G is.

-PB

I prefer to cite real world examples where FTTN has been rolled out successfully , such as in the UK and America, and real world examples where FTTH has been rolled out and successfully failed, such as Australia. I think real world examples carry more weight mere opinions of certain people, with that in mind FTTN has it's supporters; Justin Milne, Phil Dobbie, Mike Galvin, Renei Lemay, etc.

How do you know it's the coppers fault? Have you physically inspected the line? How do you know it's over 30 years old? There are lots of factors that determine how fast your connection will be, not just the age and state of the copper, to generalise for the whole network based on your own individual experience is ridiculous.

The state and age of the copper is the #2 factor in determining ADSL speeds. The #1 is line distance.

International laughing stock.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/11/17/cameron-warns-sri-lanka-over-war-crimes

Australia has joined Canada in rejecting a CHOGM decision to establish a green capital fund to help small and poor nations address global warming.Source AAPPrime Minister Tony Abbott has rejected a call by fellow Commonwealth leaders to set up a new climate fund to help poor nations.Mr Abbott also found himself at odds with British prime minister David Cameron over his strong defence of Sri Lanka's efforts to address alleged human rights abuses and war crimes.As the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting wrapped up in Colombo on Sunday, Mr Abbott joined Canada in rejecting a decision by the summit to establish a green capital fund to help small island states and poor African countries address the effects of global warming.The final agreement noted that "Australia and Canada ... indicated that they could not support a green capital fund at this time".A Commonwealth expert group also called for new ways to access existing international funds to address climate change.Small state leaders pleaded with their colleagues to urgently address global warming, which threatens their long term existence.New Zealand Prime Minister John Key, who agreed to the fund in principle, said Tony Abbott and the Canadian delegate had said they "can't agree to fund their contribution"."Australia is going to have to establish as a government how it will approach these international issues," Mr Key said."We are taking the middle path but the right path."New Zealand has an emissions trading scheme but the Abbott government is in the process of repealing the former Labor government's scheme.With Sri Lanka's human rights record a key point of discussion, Mr Abbott urged Commonwealth leaders to let Sri Lanka itself deal with the fallout from 30 years of civil war and declared the two nations to be "good mates".The UN says as many as 40,000 civilians may have been killed in the final stages of the war in 2009 when Tamil Tigers rebels were crushed by government troops.Mr Cameron used the summit to put an ultimatum to President Mahinda Rajapaksa to properly investigate claims of war crimes by March or face a UN inquiry.Mr Rajapaksa has denied civilians were killed and told Mr Abbott in a bilateral meeting Sri Lanka was addressing human rights concerns through the Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Commission and other inquiries."The important thing is to work constructively with Sri Lanka to try to ensure all of the people of Sri Lanka have the best possible future," Mr Abbott said.Mr Rajapaksa praised Mr Abbott's practical approach.While not directly addressing Sri Lanka, the leaders used the final communique to reaffirm their commitment to democracy, the rule of law and human rights.Mr Abbott met some villagers from Sri Lanka's northern province at Australia's high commission in Colombo, just before he left for Canberra."What has impressed me about the people of Sri Lanka over the past few days is their potential to really lift this country quickly into a much better condition... and efforts that they've made to put behind them some of the animosities of the past and reach out to one another in a spirit of friendship and national harmony."Malta will host the 2015 summit, while Vanuatu and Malaysia will host the subsequent meetings.

Clearly, the solution to the Sri Lankan refugee crisis is to go over to Sri Lanka and help the SL Government finish off the Tamils once and for all.

Yes I have physically inspected the pits, they reside in my front yard. I know it's 30 years old because that's when the pits were put in, no maintenance has been completed since.

If not for the medium between my brand new modem and their brand new DSLAM, what other factors would affect my sync rates? :-k

And likewise, to generalize that the whole FTTN idea is going to be a smash hit with vectoring and other factors across a whole network without even a shred of it being implemented yet is ridiculous.

-PB

This.

The lines in my pit are corroded to the shithouse, most uninsulated as it was put in at a time before things like the internet even existed or standards were put in place for the installation of such lines.

After Yasi (one of the worst cyclones to make landfall in Australia) my sync speeds halved due to the water damage done to the lines, damage that was never ever repaired (and that was almost 3 years ago now).

Thank fuck I have NBN and FTTP now.

-PB

coincidence much