Yeah that's right Afro he's afraid of refugees who can't speak English and mostly remain unemployed of stealing white man jobs.

I means why hire skilled migrants with good English skills when you can hire damaged under qualified refugees,

There is so much wrong with this statement...

1. The "main difference" between the two is their views of racial employment... so besides this, they are similar leaders? Right :roll:

2. Great idea Afro! Lets hate on Tony because he doesn't want to let low-skilled migrants who will take up infrastructure, social welfare and are willing to work for a pittance compared to Australians. What an asshole for caring about the employment opportunity's and quality of life for Australians!

3. Calling Abbot a racist? Is that the best argument that can be conjured from the fountain of knowledge that is AfromanGT?. Well, it's what you expect from the left-wing who base their arguments on feelings and not facts.

Or y'know you could teach them english and create training opportunities for them, which in turn creates jobs for other Australians training them, tax income and alleviates the strain on the welfare system.

But hey, I'm a leftie, what the fuck would I know?

No it isn't. The standards of a country are only as good as the governments who charts it's course. If you have bad government eventually you are going to run down the economy and society. If you have good government you can maintain and grow your economic strength and social vitality. The current relative strong state of Australia is testament to the good work or previous labor and liberal governments, except the greens because they've never been in power and therefore can't claim any credit.

Just because a government wants to repeal teeny weeny piece of legislation or the speaker throws someone out of parliament doesn't make the government "shit", there are for more important indicators measuring a governments performance, ie economic growth, employment, debt levels. You have to apply balance and proper analysis judging how good or bad a government whole performance is not just dumb it down to one thing Brandis said.

lol

They already get access to all that shit, English classes and job skills programs. About a quarter have some kind of qualification. It's clear the greater threat to white man jobs are skilled migrants not boat people, then again it seems it's left who are more xenophobic when it comes to things foreign, like foreign capital, foreigners taking Australian jobs and sending jobs off shore.

:lol: No you have a reasonable opinion.

The lefty view is pay for them to live here indefinitely because their lives have been hard and our country has lots of money :lol:

The lefty view is treat them like human beings, what you are suggesting is more of an extremist socialist view. Just like saying the rights view is "lock up all the foreigners and throw away the key."

How does one treat dead drowned people like human beings?

What are you smoking?

So treating them like human beings means bringing them in and bringing them money indefinitely to live?

What is inhumane about making them learn English and a skill so that they can live in society without being spoonfed by our tax $?

Stupid right-wingers! Forcing them to work and contribute to society instead of just leeching off it is unfair and mean! /s

Oh, I get it, you are a computer. Operating in binaries. Of course what I said means "subsidise them indefinitely to live" because it's either that or agree with the current system. Ones and zeros, ones and zeros.

No, that's dumb, clear your head and think before you go off on your rants.

You say A (being on the left) = B (give them money)
I said actually A != B, A = C (human rights) and B = D (extremist socialism)
You get indignant and say "so C = B!? You must be high". Where on earth do you pull that logic from? If A is not B and A and B have equalities, it follows that their equalities are also not of the same set.

Treating someone like a human being does not mean giving them free money and an easy ride, it means not interning them in terrible conditions, not burdening the process of assessing their claims in red tape, not vilifying them as criminals until proven innocent.

CAREFUL BEFORE YOU FROTH AT THAT, none of that implies that the binary opposite is true. NO it doesn't follow that I am saying put them up in cushy hotel digs, NO it doesn't follow that I am saying open borders all around, NO it doesn't follow that I am saying all asylum seekers are genuine.

I'm an engineer. If I see any maths i'm going to go postal :lol:

I don't want them to live in terrible conditions. They should be provided sound conditions with the bare essentials they need to live and learn. Lets bring them in immediately if they can prove they're genuinely refugees, lets give them lessons in English and a trade skill so they can give back.

If this happens though, I can't wait for the lefty scum to complain about the conditions of their accommodation because they risk being placed in low socio economic areas with high percentages of government housing. Then again, the left isn't usually associated with common sense. The left would probably still complained if they lived in better conditions than most existing Australians :lol:

So essentially, we want the exact same thing except we identify as different sides of the political landscape.

It does no-one any favours to attack "sides" rather than consider what is actually at hand. There is nothing wrong with being 'left' or 'right' philosophically, there are great flaws with being extreme left or extreme right, however, as it is at the expense of logic and common sense.

It's barracking for a team rather than rationally reasoning through problems.

I think you are attacking straw mans. One they aren't "interned " in terrible conditions, they get free food, clean water, a roof over their heads and freedom from government persecution. Two they're claims aren't burdened by red tape, these are simply the lead times required their assess their health, character and legitimacy as asylum seekers before safely releasing them into the community. It certainly doesn't speed things up when they throw away their personal ID.

Three they clearly aren't vilified as criminals, just the mode of entry into Australia is questioned and the people smugglers the ones identified as the "baddies" and the asylum seekers their victims.

The problem with the left is they have to distort the facts and make everything seem much worse than it is to still appear relevant.

Ooh, I can do this too.

The problem with the right is they have to distort the facts to make their policies seem reasonable:

Asylum seekers (including children) are kept in a detention centre that shares more in common with a prison than a reasonable environment for persons claiming asylum, on an island whose government welcomes our presence for political reasons but whose residents despise our processing facility being there. Processing claims has, in some cases, taken years and asylum seekers are given no estimates on when they will be told whether they have been accepted or not. "Illegal Immigrants" is vilifying asylum seekers as criminal. Seeking asylum is not illegal, no matter how you reach where you are seeking to make the claim. The rhetoric is about "boat people", "illegal immigrants" and "queue jumpers." Very little emphasis is put on people smugglers. So yes, they are vilified.

And yes, I typed interning instead of interring, these things happen.

But of course, all that is just attacking your flawed assumption of authority and plastering a "righty" badge on it. As benelsmore has demonstrated a reasoned approach is neither left nor right, only sound.

But sharing an environment with characteristics similar to a prison does not mean ipso facto those conditions are terrible. Prisons have better amenities and facilities than most fenced in UN hosted refugee camps but most people do not regard their presence as evil or inhumane. A 'reasonable environment' is one that provides a safe haven from brutality and persecution (such as the one they are fleeing), food, water, clothing, activities and a roof. I fail to see why all of this does not constitute a reasonable environment? If their freedom is curtailed while being assessed that's unfortunate but I always perceived 'terrible' to be things like rape, murder, torture etc, obviously not things common to detention centres and probably more prevalent in refugee camps.

In some cases, processing claims has taken a long time, arguably too long for some people, but that doesn't mean we should allow these people to roam free without first fully assessing their character, health and asylum legitimacy. The government has a responsibility first to their own citizens to ensure anyone entering from overseas from any country for whatever reason (business, travel, asylum etc) isn't going to pose a threat to the community. If these means segregating asylum seekers away until they are deemed fit to join society then by all means use as much red tape as necessary, even at the expense of their emotional well-being because until the point they are granted asylum the government needs to treat its own citizens and wellbeing as more important.

I don't think terms like queue jumpers, illegal immigrant etc directly express criminality. Criminality you normally associate with someone who has been charged with a specific crime, usually a serious one which involves spending time in jail. Asylum seekers are neither charged with a specific crime nor jailed so they usually aren't banded together with crooks. I think it's clear the government has been vocal in singling out people smugglers as the "criminals" and their customers as the victims.

So again I think the left have this habit of zeroing on every negative variable and blowing it out of proportion and failing to recognise the worst most unethical, barbaric thing of all and that is allowing people to be exploited and shuffled like cattle onto unseaworthy vessels which have a high chance of sinking. I'm yet to hear a single lefty address how the 1,100+ who have died on route here to Australia fits in with their rosy picture of open borders being compassionate and humane, I guess because there is no possible way to reconcile it and it's therefore best swept under the rug and forgotten.

=d>

I hate the whole "left" & "right" thing. Morons feel more comfortable after they've put you in their labeled box.

That and they still can't see the problem with the taxpayer-funded ABC being grossly biased towards the views of 50% (or less) of the people who financially support it...

Edited by Captain Haddock: 3/4/2014 12:55:43 AM

You do know that an inquiry into the ABC not only cleared them of claims of bias but applauded their high standard of coverage don't you?

:lol: The irony of your statement is quite amusing.

Using a label to attack another label. Well done.

News Ltd could also commission an "independent" inquiry to determine the same findings, that it is totally unbiased and a quality news service. These "independent" consultants don't get paid by disparaging their customers.

This so much. Some ABC programs like Q@A or Insiders are essentially left-leaning think-tanks. Whenever a Liberal politician or conservative columnist is present, they are always in the minority. No surprise when you consider how many journalists within ABC ranks have links to the Labor party.

Shame we can't have a Media Watchdog (impedes on freedom of press etc).

-PB

Well if you want to go down that route. Who's calling them biased? Politicians that don't want to be questioned and news lmt who have an interest in having them censored. It really boggles my mind, freedom of speech for bigots but not for those who question or disagree with them.

You refered to "lefty scum" forgive me for thinking you're stupid.

I find a lot (not all) far left leaning people unrealistic and philosophical with a lot of ideas as to what should be done and no idea how to do it.

Just an observation of experience. I'm sure there are comparable people in every political persuasion.

Leftists look like idealists with difficulty making real world application.
Rightists look fear driven with difficulty making human connection.

Excuse me ignorance but what is "group think"? Is it exclusive to the ABC? What is so dangerous about it?

I've heard the term thrown around by Andrew Bolt but I'm not sure exactly what it means.