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RJL25
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notorganic wrote:RJL25 wrote:notorganic wrote:Serious discussions require correct spelling (and how long have you been making this mistake?) As hard as it is for you to comprehend, but people can actually make errors and it not actually be as a result of a fundamental lack of intellect, but rather just a mistake! And lets face it notor, you're incapable of having a serious discussion or debate with anyone who holds a different view to your own, and you know it. Please sir, tell me more about who I am and what I know. While you continue to snipe from the sidelines rather then actually engage in a discussion, my point continues to go forward unchallenged.
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notorganic
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It was already refuted, and you chose to ignore it and claim "victory", as if there is such a thing when it comes to online discussions.
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RJL25
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notorganic wrote:It was already refuted, and you chose to ignore it and claim "victory", as if there is such a thing when it comes to online discussions. a) I don't believe I ever claimed victory b) if you wish to claim your 1 line jib and selective quote "refuted" my original point about the Labor party then please elaborate, given that Tony Abbott was nothing more then a very slight sideshow to my post as a whole which was about the transformation of the LABOR Party.
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Keano
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Abbott's evil policy work
Malcolm Fraser
June 18, 2012
OPINION
Read laterComments 361
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The Coalition's latest asylum seeker plan is inhumane and lacks integrity.
TONY Abbott and Scott Morrison recently stood in front of Australia and proudly presented the Coalition's plan to ''ensure integrity and restore confidence in refugee assessment''. There is not much to be proud about in this policy. The announcement was based on misinformed and misleading information that plays straight into the unfounded public fear of asylum seekers.
How can you ''restore integrity'' to the policy affecting asylum seekers when the proposals embraced are based on falsehoods, misinformation and a blatant playing of politics with the lives of vulnerable people? This is the opposite of integrity. It is inhumane and demeans Australia. Is this the basis on which Abbott will operate if he, as he believes he will, becomes prime minister?
Australia has a robust and effective legal system to assess whether or not someone is a refugee. Declaring that a tougher and more rigorous process is required ignores the fact that we do not have an asylum seeker problem and we have not lost control of our borders.
In 2010-11, 4730 asylum seekers arrived by boat. During the same period, more than 13 million people crossed our borders and arrived in Australia; 4730 out of 13.9 million is not a ''system vulnerable to abuse''. Instead of restoring ''integrity and public confidence'', the Coalition's policy is detrimental to people seeking asylum, breaches our obligations under the Refugee Convention and appears to work from the position of the assumption of guilt.
The most effective way to restore integrity and public confidence in asylum seeker policy is through strong leadership, myth busting and accurate information. Not to present a policy that is the closest thing to evil you can get. A policy that is full of misinformation.
To begin, Abbott referred to ''illegal boat arrivals'' - yet we have been reminded numerous times that it is not illegal to seek asylum, regardless of mode of arrival. How can we expect the public to know facts such as this when a possible future prime minister of Australia doesn't?
One of the main points of the Coalition policy is to introduce an independent Integrity Commissioner for Refugee Status Assessment. Yet the current administrative arrangements in the Department of Immigration and Citizenship already include rigorous assessment of applications, plus summaries of trends and totals. The Coalition's proposed six-monthly audits would add little that is new and would undermine an existing, robust government department.
Another major part of the policy is to draw an unfavourable inference about an applicant's identity if they arrive without documents. The reference to ''90 per cent of arrivals having no documents whatsoever'' is a blatant attempt to mislead the public. A footnote refers to a budget estimates hearing relating to asylum seekers arriving without a passport. But arriving without a passport is not the same as arriving with no documents ''whatsoever''. While people may arrive without a passport, it does not mean they do not have other identity documents.
There are numerous reasons people arrive without a passport: they may not have one, they have had to hand it over to people smugglers, or they have panicked and destroyed it because it is their identity that has caused persecution, torture and imprisonment in the past. Further to this, to prove an asylum seeker is a refugee, identity documents must be provided - therefore there is no way to be found to be a refugee without any documents. This is not indicative of a system ''wide open to abuse'' or one in which assessors are forced to make a ''best guess''.
The reason nine out of 10 people who arrive by boat receive visas is that they have proved they are refugees. They have provided identifying documents and have proved that owing to a ''well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion'' they are unable to return to their home country. Fear that has forced them to flee and seek protection in Australia. Protection that, as signatories to the Refugee Convention, we are obliged to offer and should be proud to offer.
Asylum seekers are not granted refugee status because they do not have documents or are cheating a vulnerable system. The presumption that people who arrive in Australia seeking our protection are trying to cheat our system is offensive.
As a final indication of the value of this policy, it refers to section 49A of the Migration Act. There is no section 49A.
This policy lacks substance and needs to be seen for what it is - opportunistic and based on misinformation. It fuels an unfounded fear and ignores what asylum seeker policy should be based on - humanity.
One thing Abbott is right about is that integrity needs to be restored - but not with the system, as he asserts. What is missing is integrity in the presentation of information and integrity in our politicians and their policies.
The race to the bottom of the barrel in the asylum seeker debate continues and, with this policy, Tony Abbott is winning.
Malcolm Fraser was Liberal prime minister from 1975 to 1983.
Fuck Abbott
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Roar_Brisbane
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Quote:Indonesia rejects Abbott 'tow back boats' vow THE Indonesian government has confirmed that it would not accept the towing back of asylum seeker boats to its shores, sources say. The policy puts an incoming Coalition government in Canberra on a collision course with Indonesia after the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, reiterated the stance yesterday. And, as the Australian Navy brought 160 asylum seekers to safety on Christmas Island on Wednesday, there are increasing reports that passengers on such boats are refusing to deal with Indonesian authorities for fear of being sent back. Senior sources familiar with discussions in Darwin this week between the Indonesian and Australian governments said ''Indonesia made it clear to us'' that it would not tolerate what is a key element of the Coalition's strategy. The Herald has been told that one of those who conveyed this message was the Indonesian Foreign Minister, Marty Natalegawa. One senior Australian official said it was obvious it would be impossible to tow back boats and have a constructive relationship with Jakarta. ''It would take the relationship off a cliff,'' the official said. The refusal of the crew of a boat to return to Indonesia when ordered on Wednesday had the opposition saying again yesterday it would tow back boats where safe to do so, whereas the government's policy had been shown to be impotent. Mr Abbott said a Coalition government would back the navy using whatever ''steps that are necessary to get that boat turned around''. This included a repeat of a procedure used by the Howard government to confiscate extra fuel from the vessel, which would render it unable to complete the voyage to Australian waters. The latest arrivals on Christmas Island are 160 men, women and children from Iraq - including Palestinians living there - Iran and Afghanistan, according to sources on Christmas Island. Gagah Prakoso, a spokesman for the Indonesian search and rescue agency Basarnas, does not know if people smugglers are now instructing their passengers to call Australia directly, but he does know that when his agency tries to contact boats in distress, ''they hang up''. ''Perhaps they know it's not a call from Australia,'' he said. A number of recent vessels, including two that sank with the loss of 94 or more lives, and one that didn't, have directly contacted the Australian Maritime Safety Authority or the Australian Federal Police. The head of the law enforcement unit at the Banten maritime police, Senior Commissioner Taswin, has told the Herald that asylum seekers would do almost anything to avoid Indonesian authorities. ''From my experience they do refuse to be arrested by Indonesian authorities, in particular by the immigration department, because they would be detained in immigration detention - and it could be for years,'' Mr Taswin said. Recent sinkings have shown that asylum seekers will risk high seas even if their boat is crippled. The leaking boat that sank on June 21, killing 90 or more people, had been warned by phone about 30 hours before it sank to return to Indonesia, but it kept going, slowly, towards Christmas Island. Mr Prakoso said asylum seekers in distress had recently begun using satellite phones. The phones were equipped with the numbers of Australian agencies and they refused to speak to Indonesians, he said. Senior Commissioner Taswin also said asylum seekers had changed their route recently to avoid a passage of ocean south of Panaitan Island. Many boats have sunk in the area in the past. However, Johnny Hutauruk, the head of the transnational crime desk at Co-ordinating Ministry for Politics, Legal and Security, said he was not aware of any change in how asylum seekers in distress were acting. ''There's no new thing about it. Illegal migrants have always contacted people whenever their boat is sinking,'' he said. Mr Hutauruk said two months ago a boat sank in West Nusa Tenggarra, with all on board rescued by local police. Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/indonesia-rejects-abbott-tow-back-boats-vow-20120705-21k82.html#ixzz1zlJqCJNR
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batfink
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Keano wrote:Abbott's evil policy work
Malcolm Fraser
June 18, 2012
OPINION
Read laterComments 361
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The Coalition's latest asylum seeker plan is inhumane and lacks integrity.
TONY Abbott and Scott Morrison recently stood in front of Australia and proudly presented the Coalition's plan to ''ensure integrity and restore confidence in refugee assessment''. There is not much to be proud about in this policy. The announcement was based on misinformed and misleading information that plays straight into the unfounded public fear of asylum seekers.
How can you ''restore integrity'' to the policy affecting asylum seekers when the proposals embraced are based on falsehoods, misinformation and a blatant playing of politics with the lives of vulnerable people? This is the opposite of integrity. It is inhumane and demeans Australia. Is this the basis on which Abbott will operate if he, as he believes he will, becomes prime minister?
Australia has a robust and effective legal system to assess whether or not someone is a refugee. Declaring that a tougher and more rigorous process is required ignores the fact that we do not have an asylum seeker problem and we have not lost control of our borders.
In 2010-11, 4730 asylum seekers arrived by boat. During the same period, more than 13 million people crossed our borders and arrived in Australia; 4730 out of 13.9 million is not a ''system vulnerable to abuse''. Instead of restoring ''integrity and public confidence'', the Coalition's policy is detrimental to people seeking asylum, breaches our obligations under the Refugee Convention and appears to work from the position of the assumption of guilt.
The most effective way to restore integrity and public confidence in asylum seeker policy is through strong leadership, myth busting and accurate information. Not to present a policy that is the closest thing to evil you can get. A policy that is full of misinformation.
To begin, Abbott referred to ''illegal boat arrivals'' - yet we have been reminded numerous times that it is not illegal to seek asylum, regardless of mode of arrival. How can we expect the public to know facts such as this when a possible future prime minister of Australia doesn't?
One of the main points of the Coalition policy is to introduce an independent Integrity Commissioner for Refugee Status Assessment. Yet the current administrative arrangements in the Department of Immigration and Citizenship already include rigorous assessment of applications, plus summaries of trends and totals. The Coalition's proposed six-monthly audits would add little that is new and would undermine an existing, robust government department.
Another major part of the policy is to draw an unfavourable inference about an applicant's identity if they arrive without documents. The reference to ''90 per cent of arrivals having no documents whatsoever'' is a blatant attempt to mislead the public. A footnote refers to a budget estimates hearing relating to asylum seekers arriving without a passport. But arriving without a passport is not the same as arriving with no documents ''whatsoever''. While people may arrive without a passport, it does not mean they do not have other identity documents.
There are numerous reasons people arrive without a passport: they may not have one, they have had to hand it over to people smugglers, or they have panicked and destroyed it because it is their identity that has caused persecution, torture and imprisonment in the past. Further to this, to prove an asylum seeker is a refugee, identity documents must be provided - therefore there is no way to be found to be a refugee without any documents. This is not indicative of a system ''wide open to abuse'' or one in which assessors are forced to make a ''best guess''.
The reason nine out of 10 people who arrive by boat receive visas is that they have proved they are refugees. They have provided identifying documents and have proved that owing to a ''well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion'' they are unable to return to their home country. Fear that has forced them to flee and seek protection in Australia. Protection that, as signatories to the Refugee Convention, we are obliged to offer and should be proud to offer.
Asylum seekers are not granted refugee status because they do not have documents or are cheating a vulnerable system. The presumption that people who arrive in Australia seeking our protection are trying to cheat our system is offensive.
As a final indication of the value of this policy, it refers to section 49A of the Migration Act. There is no section 49A.
This policy lacks substance and needs to be seen for what it is - opportunistic and based on misinformation. It fuels an unfounded fear and ignores what asylum seeker policy should be based on - humanity.
One thing Abbott is right about is that integrity needs to be restored - but not with the system, as he asserts. What is missing is integrity in the presentation of information and integrity in our politicians and their policies.
The race to the bottom of the barrel in the asylum seeker debate continues and, with this policy, Tony Abbott is winning.
Malcolm Fraser was Liberal prime minister from 1975 to 1983.
Fuck Abbott would take with a grain of salt any comments from old malcolm fraser...he is a bitter old failed PM who thinks he is still relevant.......he should just retire to the farm and shag his sheep......
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
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Roar_Brisbane wrote:Quote:Indonesia rejects Abbott 'tow back boats' vow THE Indonesian government has confirmed that it would not accept the towing back of asylum seeker boats to its shores, sources say.
The policy puts an incoming Coalition government in Canberra on a collision course with Indonesia after the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, reiterated the stance yesterday. And, as the Australian Navy brought 160 asylum seekers to safety on Christmas Island on Wednesday, there are increasing reports that passengers on such boats are refusing to deal with Indonesian authorities for fear of being sent back. Senior sources familiar with discussions in Darwin this week between the Indonesian and Australian governments said ''Indonesia made it clear to us'' that it would not tolerate what is a key element of the Coalition's strategy. The Herald has been told that one of those who conveyed this message was the Indonesian Foreign Minister, Marty Natalegawa. One senior Australian official said it was obvious it would be impossible to tow back boats and have a constructive relationship with Jakarta. ''It would take the relationship off a cliff,'' the official said. The refusal of the crew of a boat to return to Indonesia when ordered on Wednesday had the opposition saying again yesterday it would tow back boats where safe to do so, whereas the government's policy had been shown to be impotent. Mr Abbott said a Coalition government would back the navy using whatever ''steps that are necessary to get that boat turned around''. This included a repeat of a procedure used by the Howard government to confiscate extra fuel from the vessel, which would render it unable to complete the voyage to Australian waters. The latest arrivals on Christmas Island are 160 men, women and children from Iraq - including Palestinians living there - Iran and Afghanistan, according to sources on Christmas Island. Gagah Prakoso, a spokesman for the Indonesian search and rescue agency Basarnas, does not know if people smugglers are now instructing their passengers to call Australia directly, but he does know that when his agency tries to contact boats in distress, ''they hang up''. ''Perhaps they know it's not a call from Australia,'' he said. A number of recent vessels, including two that sank with the loss of 94 or more lives, and one that didn't, have directly contacted the Australian Maritime Safety Authority or the Australian Federal Police. The head of the law enforcement unit at the Banten maritime police, Senior Commissioner Taswin, has told the Herald that asylum seekers would do almost anything to avoid Indonesian authorities. ''From my experience they do refuse to be arrested by Indonesian authorities, in particular by the immigration department, because they would be detained in immigration detention - and it could be for years,'' Mr Taswin said. Recent sinkings have shown that asylum seekers will risk high seas even if their boat is crippled. The leaking boat that sank on June 21, killing 90 or more people, had been warned by phone about 30 hours before it sank to return to Indonesia, but it kept going, slowly, towards Christmas Island. Mr Prakoso said asylum seekers in distress had recently begun using satellite phones. The phones were equipped with the numbers of Australian agencies and they refused to speak to Indonesians, he said. Senior Commissioner Taswin also said asylum seekers had changed their route recently to avoid a passage of ocean south of Panaitan Island. Many boats have sunk in the area in the past. However, Johnny Hutauruk, the head of the transnational crime desk at Co-ordinating Ministry for Politics, Legal and Security, said he was not aware of any change in how asylum seekers in distress were acting. ''There's no new thing about it. Illegal migrants have always contacted people whenever their boat is sinking,'' he said. Mr Hutauruk said two months ago a boat sank in West Nusa Tenggarra, with all on board rescued by local police. Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/indonesia-rejects-abbott-tow-back-boats-vow-20120705-21k82.html#ixzz1zlJqCJNR gotta love them sauces.......](*,)
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
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RJL25 wrote:sorry, I thought we were having a serious discussion here. My mistake the troll calling someone a troll....amazing stuff.... no wonder KA told you to be LESS of a dick...!!!:-k :-"
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
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batfink wrote:LOL.....LOL....
[youtube]GFELLK8htKM[/youtube]
#-o :-" gotta be proud of this government
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
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batfink wrote:you have to be kidding me....and this guy is in the government?????
[youtube]L1pEt7bgY2U[/youtube] class act top quality
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
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[youtube]PDv_XFfsfWU&feature=related[/youtube]
[size=9]This is trolling....LOL[/size]
Edited by batfink: 6/7/2012 08:56:20 AM
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thupercoach
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K,
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batfink wrote:Keano wrote:Abbott's evil policy work
Malcolm Fraser
June 18, 2012
OPINION
Read laterComments 361
Ads by Google
RaboDirect Term DepositsRabodirect.com.au/Term-Deposits
Looking For A High Interest Rate? Get 5.80%pa* With RaboDirect Now!
The Coalition's latest asylum seeker plan is inhumane and lacks integrity.
TONY Abbott and Scott Morrison recently stood in front of Australia and proudly presented the Coalition's plan to ''ensure integrity and restore confidence in refugee assessment''. There is not much to be proud about in this policy. The announcement was based on misinformed and misleading information that plays straight into the unfounded public fear of asylum seekers.
How can you ''restore integrity'' to the policy affecting asylum seekers when the proposals embraced are based on falsehoods, misinformation and a blatant playing of politics with the lives of vulnerable people? This is the opposite of integrity. It is inhumane and demeans Australia. Is this the basis on which Abbott will operate if he, as he believes he will, becomes prime minister?
Australia has a robust and effective legal system to assess whether or not someone is a refugee. Declaring that a tougher and more rigorous process is required ignores the fact that we do not have an asylum seeker problem and we have not lost control of our borders.
In 2010-11, 4730 asylum seekers arrived by boat. During the same period, more than 13 million people crossed our borders and arrived in Australia; 4730 out of 13.9 million is not a ''system vulnerable to abuse''. Instead of restoring ''integrity and public confidence'', the Coalition's policy is detrimental to people seeking asylum, breaches our obligations under the Refugee Convention and appears to work from the position of the assumption of guilt.
The most effective way to restore integrity and public confidence in asylum seeker policy is through strong leadership, myth busting and accurate information. Not to present a policy that is the closest thing to evil you can get. A policy that is full of misinformation.
To begin, Abbott referred to ''illegal boat arrivals'' - yet we have been reminded numerous times that it is not illegal to seek asylum, regardless of mode of arrival. How can we expect the public to know facts such as this when a possible future prime minister of Australia doesn't?
One of the main points of the Coalition policy is to introduce an independent Integrity Commissioner for Refugee Status Assessment. Yet the current administrative arrangements in the Department of Immigration and Citizenship already include rigorous assessment of applications, plus summaries of trends and totals. The Coalition's proposed six-monthly audits would add little that is new and would undermine an existing, robust government department.
Another major part of the policy is to draw an unfavourable inference about an applicant's identity if they arrive without documents. The reference to ''90 per cent of arrivals having no documents whatsoever'' is a blatant attempt to mislead the public. A footnote refers to a budget estimates hearing relating to asylum seekers arriving without a passport. But arriving without a passport is not the same as arriving with no documents ''whatsoever''. While people may arrive without a passport, it does not mean they do not have other identity documents.
There are numerous reasons people arrive without a passport: they may not have one, they have had to hand it over to people smugglers, or they have panicked and destroyed it because it is their identity that has caused persecution, torture and imprisonment in the past. Further to this, to prove an asylum seeker is a refugee, identity documents must be provided - therefore there is no way to be found to be a refugee without any documents. This is not indicative of a system ''wide open to abuse'' or one in which assessors are forced to make a ''best guess''.
The reason nine out of 10 people who arrive by boat receive visas is that they have proved they are refugees. They have provided identifying documents and have proved that owing to a ''well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion'' they are unable to return to their home country. Fear that has forced them to flee and seek protection in Australia. Protection that, as signatories to the Refugee Convention, we are obliged to offer and should be proud to offer.
Asylum seekers are not granted refugee status because they do not have documents or are cheating a vulnerable system. The presumption that people who arrive in Australia seeking our protection are trying to cheat our system is offensive.
As a final indication of the value of this policy, it refers to section 49A of the Migration Act. There is no section 49A.
This policy lacks substance and needs to be seen for what it is - opportunistic and based on misinformation. It fuels an unfounded fear and ignores what asylum seeker policy should be based on - humanity.
One thing Abbott is right about is that integrity needs to be restored - but not with the system, as he asserts. What is missing is integrity in the presentation of information and integrity in our politicians and their policies.
The race to the bottom of the barrel in the asylum seeker debate continues and, with this policy, Tony Abbott is winning.
Malcolm Fraser was Liberal prime minister from 1975 to 1983.
Fuck Abbott would take with a grain of salt any comments from old malcolm fraser...he is a bitter old failed PM who thinks he is still relevant.......he should just retire to the farm and shag his sheep...... This. The worst Lib PM in recent history...sold out to Labor decades back and opposed just about everything Howard said or did. Still trying to reach for a bit of relevance... And again, this "assoylum seeker debate" isn't about Tony Abbott. It's about this government and the mess they've created. Kevin 747 is responsible for it, and Hyper-Bowl Joolia continued it by not accepting the one solution that worked under Howard.
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
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it's about time labor and green supporters accept the fact that both of their parties are at fault in the asylum debate...they are in power together and can't agree on policy , so they are to blame and they need to be held accountable for a resolution......it doesn't get any simpler than that......
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thupercoach
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Group: Forum Members
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batfink wrote:it's about time labor and green supporters accept the fact that both of their parties are at fault in the asylum debate...they are in power together and can't agree on policy , so they are to blame and they need to be held accountable for a resolution......it doesn't get any simpler than that...... And that's another thing - why do are the Greens getting off scot-free in this debate when they are the ones holding the balance of power?
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batfink
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Group: Forum Members
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thupercoach wrote:batfink wrote:it's about time labor and green supporters accept the fact that both of their parties are at fault in the asylum debate...they are in power together and can't agree on policy , so they are to blame and they need to be held accountable for a resolution......it doesn't get any simpler than that...... And that's another thing - why do are the Greens getting off scot-free in this debate when they are the ones holding the balance of power? [size=9] this is why....[/size] [youtube]WH_MBwQhGgA[/youtube]
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thupercoach
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Group: Forum Members
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Joffa
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Group: Moderators
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Quote:Majority of big emitters support new tax scheme DateJuly 7, 2012 LESS than a quarter of the heavy greenhouse emitters that will directly pay the carbon tax openly back Tony Abbott's ''pledge in blood'' to repeal the scheme, a survey by The Saturday Age has found. The survey shows concerns on the design of the scheme, with some calling for a quicker shift to a market-based emissions trading scheme, scrapping a planned floor price and more generous compensation. The Saturday Age asked 40 big emitters on the government's list of 294 companies that will pay the carbon tax whether they were interested in repealing or changing the scheme. Nine supported a repeal, including Delta Electricity, Intergen and Stanwell, as well as the Australian Coal Association and Manufacturing Australia. Eight including AGL and Origin, mining company BHP Billiton and oil companies Shell and Caltex, say they favour some form of carbon pricing. Five firms, including Alcoa, Qantas and TRUenergy, say they would like the existing scheme to be changed. Four companies, including retail giant Wesfarmers, said they were just focusing on complying with the current law. Nine refused to comment and three made negative remarks about carbon pricing. NRG Gladstone Power Station said it was too early to judge the effects of the carbon price. Opposition climate spokesman Greg Hunt again predicted that if the Coalition won the next election there would be no carbon price in Australia for the next 20 years. ''I respect the views of those big companies who get to pass on the prices, but this is a decision for the Australian people and the next election will be a referendum on the carbon tax,'' he said. But industry observers say while Mr Abbott is politically wedded to his repeal pledge, he would face pressure to apply some form of carbon price. Keith Orchison, a former head of the Australian Petroleum Production & Exploration Association, said Mr Hunt's 20-year prediction was out of step with business. Investors in mining, power infrastructure and manufacturing were assuming a future carbon price, he said. ''I would think as Abbott … and others in the Coalition leadership are going around the business community … that's pretty well the message they'll be receiving,'' he said. ''You can't pursue abatement … without placing some form of price on carbon.'' Tony Wood, program director, energy, at the Grattan Institute, said the Coalition's policy could ''morph'' into a form of carbon price. ''I would think the combination of industry and government would say that moving towards something that looks more like a cap-and-trade scheme is the way to go over time. '' Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said Mr Abbott's repeal pledge could not be taken seriously. ''When the overwhelming majority of large emitters paying the carbon price don't want it repealed, common sense tells you it won't happen,'' he said. With ADAM MORTON and PADDY DOULMAN Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/energy-smart/majority-of-big-emitters-support-new-tax-scheme-20120706-21mn9.html#ixzz1zwLAC543
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batfink
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Joffa wrote:Quote:Majority of big emitters support new tax scheme DateJuly 7, 2012 LESS than a quarter of the heavy greenhouse emitters that will directly pay the carbon tax openly back Tony Abbott's ''pledge in blood'' to repeal the scheme, a survey by The Saturday Age has found. The survey shows concerns on the design of the scheme, with some calling for a quicker shift to a market-based emissions trading scheme, scrapping a planned floor price and more generous compensation. The Saturday Age asked 40 big emitters on the government's list of 294 companies that will pay the carbon tax whether they were interested in repealing or changing the scheme. Nine supported a repeal, including Delta Electricity, Intergen and Stanwell, as well as the Australian Coal Association and Manufacturing Australia. Eight including AGL and Origin, mining company BHP Billiton and oil companies Shell and Caltex, say they favour some form of carbon pricing. Five firms, including Alcoa, Qantas and TRUenergy, say they would like the existing scheme to be changed. Four companies, including retail giant Wesfarmers, said they were just focusing on complying with the current law. Nine refused to comment and three made negative remarks about carbon pricing. NRG Gladstone Power Station said it was too early to judge the effects of the carbon price. Opposition climate spokesman Greg Hunt again predicted that if the Coalition won the next election there would be no carbon price in Australia for the next 20 years. ''I respect the views of those big companies who get to pass on the prices, but this is a decision for the Australian people and the next election will be a referendum on the carbon tax,'' he said. But industry observers say while Mr Abbott is politically wedded to his repeal pledge, he would face pressure to apply some form of carbon price. Keith Orchison, a former head of the Australian Petroleum Production & Exploration Association, said Mr Hunt's 20-year prediction was out of step with business. Investors in mining, power infrastructure and manufacturing were assuming a future carbon price, he said. ''I would think as Abbott … and others in the Coalition leadership are going around the business community … that's pretty well the message they'll be receiving,'' he said. ''You can't pursue abatement … without placing some form of price on carbon.'' Tony Wood, program director, energy, at the Grattan Institute, said the Coalition's policy could ''morph'' into a form of carbon price. ''I would think the combination of industry and government would say that moving towards something that looks more like a cap-and-trade scheme is the way to go over time. '' Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said Mr Abbott's repeal pledge could not be taken seriously. ''When the overwhelming majority of large emitters paying the carbon price don't want it repealed, common sense tells you it won't happen,'' he said. With ADAM MORTON and PADDY DOULMAN Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/energy-smart/majority-of-big-emitters-support-new-tax-scheme-20120706-21mn9.html#ixzz1zwLAC543 what a misleading piece of journalism.....the heading "majority" out of 500 companies to be taxed....294 have ben identified....and they questioned 40....LOL ;) ;) ;)
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Joffa
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Quote:Abbott's a coward, says Gillard DateJuly 8, 2012 - 2:56PM Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the government's border protection committee will go ahead without coalition participation. Liberal Leader Tony Abbott today appeared to finally rule out nominating anyone for the reference group. Instead he dismissed the creation of the multi-party group, which will work alongside a new expert panel on asylum policy led by former defence chief Angus Houston. "We have a policy; we don't need an external committee to tell us what our policy is," Mr Abbott told ABC TV when asked directly if he'd nominate someone. The Liberal leader said rather than appointing new committees Ms Gillard should use cabinet to determine government policy. He had previously demanded the government release "specific terms of reference" for the multi-party group. Ms Gillard today said it would be "so disappointing" if the opposition refused to participate. "The reference group will go ahead," she told reporters in Brisbane, before again calling on Mr Abbott to stop playing politics, "and work with others through the reference group to get an effective solution". Labor's multi-party reference group will consist of three government MPs, two Greens senators and two crossbenchers. Mr Abbott today was asked on ABC TV why he did not raise the coalition's policy of turning asylum seeker boats around at sea when he met Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono last week. The opposition leader did not deny he'd failed to raise the issue but said: "Indonesia knows exactly what our position is." Ms Gillard was quick to respond. "He [Mr Abbott] confirmed he was too much of a coward to raise with the president of Indonesia his so-called plan to turn back boats," Ms Gillard told reporters. "He didn't have the guts to raise it." The prime minister also said when pressed for details of his plan the Liberal leader "was simply unable to give them". Turning boats back to Indonesia would put the lives of navy personnel and asylum seekers at risk, Ms Gillard said. Mr Abbott himself admits it's "dangerous work" for the navy but argues "that's why people join our armed forces". Greens leader Christine Milne today said "turning boats back will guarantee people will drown at sea". Instead the Greens want the government to invest more money in regional assessment of asylum claims and increase Australia's humanitarian intake of refugees to stop people getting on boats. "We are not there to just keep a government in power at any cost ...," Senator Milne told Network Ten. AAP Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbotts-a-coward-says-gillard-20120708-21p25.html#ixzz2014E9u9a
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Joffa
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Quote:Palmer cools on politics DateJuly 8, 2012 CLIVE Palmer's enthusiasm for a political career appears to be waning, with the mining billionaire saying he has no ambition to be an MP and suggesting there might be better candidates. After abandoning his tilt at the Brisbane seat of Lilley - held by Treasurer Wayne Swan - early last week, Mr Palmer flagged challenging Bob Katter in his north Queensland electorate of Kennedy or running in Fairfax on the Sunshine Coast (where he owns the Coolum resort). But Mr Palmer told The Sunday Age late last week that he did not want to be an MP. ''There may be someone better than me,'' the Liberal Party's biggest donor said. ''I don't have any ambition [to be an MP] … It's not that I want to be one. I'm prepared to do whatever I can to serve Australia.'' Mr Palmer said he was only toying with the idea of entering politics because members of the public were encouraging him. He said he would make up his mind whether to stand when preselections open for Kennedy next month and for Fairfax later this year. ''I could do anything.'' Although Tony Abbott asked Mr Palmer not to stand in Lilley, Mr Palmer said he hoped the Opposition Leader would support any bid he might make for another seat. But The Sunday Age understands Mr Abbott opposes his candidacy in any seat. ''Abbott recognises if this guy runs as a candidate, he'd be the bloody story every day,'' one senior Liberal Party source said. Mr Palmer and Mr Abbott got into a row over paid political lobbyists on the eve of the party's conference last weekend. Mr Palmer said his last communication with Mr Abbott was when the Opposition Leader smiled and waved at him at the conference. As polls point to a landslide Coalition election win, Mr Palmer warned it was not good enough just to ''drift into government''. He said the top priority for a new government should be to reinvigorate the economy. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/palmer-cools-on-politics-20120707-21o6g.html#ixzz2017CuQaw
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Roar_Brisbane
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Palmer is a bigger twit then Abbott and Gillard put together. I think that says enough.
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batfink
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all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
at the end of the day the labor government(if you can call it that) got into bed with a bunch of other low rate scumbags and formed what is today the government of australia....and what a joke it is.....
this is all about keeping the aussie public distracted from what is happening........
$100 million borrowed EVERYDAY...!!!!!!!
more taxes ....!!!!
more companies going down the drain at the highest rate in australian history...9000 in the last 12 m0onths alone
the reserve bank holding up interest rate drops.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......labor should cut the greens free and bury the pricks......
aid to other countries at historic levels
spending at historic levels and so is borrowing...
re distribution of wealth to suit the electoral boundaries
waste spending at the highest levels ever
a NBN purchased from telstra and optus at the highest rate for a shit network that has been in the ground for 20 friggen years....what a bunch of tossers...loser and liars......
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Joffa
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batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......
Why are the Greens accountable but the coalition not accountable, the last time I looked they were all elected to the same Parliament?
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notorganic
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batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
at the end of the day the labor government(if you can call it that) got into bed with a bunch of other low rate scumbags and formed what is today the government of australia....and what a joke it is.....
this is all about keeping the aussie public distracted from what is happening........
$100 million borrowed EVERYDAY...!!!!!!!
more taxes ....!!!!
more companies going down the drain at the highest rate in australian history...9000 in the last 12 m0onths alone
the reserve bank holding up interest rate drops.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......labor should cut the greens free and bury the pricks......
aid to other countries at historic levels
spending at historic levels and so is borrowing...
re distribution of wealth to suit the electoral boundaries
waste spending at the highest levels ever
a NBN purchased from telstra and optus at the highest rate for a shit network that has been in the ground for 20 friggen years....what a bunch of tossers...loser and liars......
As someone who tries to keep relatively informed, I seem to have the wool severely over my eyes when looking at your list of accusations. Could you please direct me to where I can gather more information?
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Roar_Brisbane
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notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
at the end of the day the labor government(if you can call it that) got into bed with a bunch of other low rate scumbags and formed what is today the government of australia....and what a joke it is.....
this is all about keeping the aussie public distracted from what is happening........
$100 million borrowed EVERYDAY...!!!!!!!
more taxes ....!!!!
more companies going down the drain at the highest rate in australian history...9000 in the last 12 m0onths alone
the reserve bank holding up interest rate drops.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......labor should cut the greens free and bury the pricks......
aid to other countries at historic levels
spending at historic levels and so is borrowing...
re distribution of wealth to suit the electoral boundaries
waste spending at the highest levels ever
a NBN purchased from telstra and optus at the highest rate for a shit network that has been in the ground for 20 friggen years....what a bunch of tossers...loser and liars......
As someone who tries to keep relatively informed, I seem to have the wool severely over my eyes when looking at your list of accusations. Could you please direct me to where I can gather more information? This.
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thupercoach
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Joffa wrote:batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......
Why are the Greens accountable but the coalition not accountable, the last time I looked they were all elected to the same Parliament? Because Labor did a deal with the Greens to stay in power, which is why the Greens are dictating policy. So forget what the Opposition is doing, focus on the ones governing the country and having a say in policy decisions. By the way, I have to say that since the last election Labor/Greens have nothing but play the man rather than the ball win in relation to the Liberals. "Get Abbott" is really all they've focused on.
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Eastern Glory
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thupercoach wrote:Joffa wrote:batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......
Why are the Greens accountable but the coalition not accountable, the last time I looked they were all elected to the same Parliament? Because Labor did a deal with the Greens to stay in power, which is why the Greens are dictating policy. So forget what the Opposition is doing, focus on the ones governing the country and having a say in policy decisions. By the way, I have to say that since the last election Labor/Greens have nothing but play the man rather than the ball win in relation to the Liberals. "Get Abbott" is really all they've focused on. That has been the political game for a couple of years now. Which is a sad state really.
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Joffa
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Farrand93 wrote:thupercoach wrote:Joffa wrote:batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......
Why are the Greens accountable but the coalition not accountable, the last time I looked they were all elected to the same Parliament? Because Labor did a deal with the Greens to stay in power, which is why the Greens are dictating policy. So forget what the Opposition is doing, focus on the ones governing the country and having a say in policy decisions. By the way, I have to say that since the last election Labor/Greens have nothing but play the man rather than the ball win in relation to the Liberals. "Get Abbott" is really all they've focused on. That has been the political game for a couple of years now. Which is a sad state really. Yes of course that is the convention in the system we currently reside under but really that's a pretty weak excuse really, no matter what the party politics would have you believe...all members of Parliament were elected to represent their electorate and to run the country and not sit back and absolve themselves of responsibility whilst feasting at the trough of taxpayers largesse. We should be expecting more of our Parliament not less.
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thupercoach
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Joffa wrote:Farrand93 wrote:thupercoach wrote:Joffa wrote:batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......
Why are the Greens accountable but the coalition not accountable, the last time I looked they were all elected to the same Parliament? Because Labor did a deal with the Greens to stay in power, which is why the Greens are dictating policy. So forget what the Opposition is doing, focus on the ones governing the country and having a say in policy decisions. By the way, I have to say that since the last election Labor/Greens have nothing but play the man rather than the ball win in relation to the Liberals. "Get Abbott" is really all they've focused on. That has been the political game for a couple of years now. Which is a sad state really. Yes of course that is the convention in the system we currently reside under but really that's a pretty weak excuse really, no matter what the party politics would have you believe...all members of Parliament were elected to represent their electorate and to run the country and not sit back and absolve themselves of responsibility whilst feasting at the trough of taxpayers largesse. We should be expecting more of our Parliament not less. Well all the MPs were elected to represent their electorate, but ALP/Greens got into power and have governed Australia since 2010. Arguing Libs are responsible for anything is to take responsibility from those running the country.
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batfink
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Joffa wrote:batfink wrote:all these articles are just more spin, to deflect the voters from the truth.......
no co-operation between the greens and the labor government on the asylum bill and blaming anyone they can......
Why are the Greens accountable but the coalition not accountable, the last time I looked they were all elected to the same Parliament? i find this a bemusing comment....are you taking the piss??? or are you serious??? the greens have formed government with labor and a few independants......they have a majority over the LNP, therefore when formulating policy they are then able to have it passed with little chance of the opposition blocking it...... so gillard has no one else to blame for not adopting the bill than her own bed fellows....she formed government with them and they are now effectively holding her to ransom and it's the LNP fault??? so if the greens don't agree with the policy, the independants don't agree with the policy and the LNP don't agree with the policy who is wrong???? gillard or the nay sayers?????
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