Once again, you are evaluating players according to reputation of the club. One of our best players at the Asian Cup was Luongo. Yet he only plays in the modest League One, although just being promoted to the Championship.

Milligan, Spira, McKay also played very well in the Asian Cup, but only play in the HAL. Nathan Burns wasn't bad either.

I'm applying impartial, comprehensive football criteria in evaluating a player in a scenario which is equal to all . A few years ago, Kruse was close to our best player, but other players have improved more over the same period since, whilst he has been injured.

Another issue for Kruse, is he is fouled a lot. Game after game for the Socceroos he is hacked down. Yet there is a different ref every time, who doesn't see all the fouls from previous games.



Edited by Decentric: 17/8/2015 03:19:48 PM

Im a happy camper seeing koln putting 3 past Stuttgart. Hopefully it continues.

Tonight TSV play. Best of luck to Deggy.

Sainsbury's body is not upto pro-football long term. Good is average at best, and has always been outplayed by Chapman at youth level. Good might become a Socceroos squadie, but we have better players.

When one looks at players using comprehensive criteria, one needs some in a team who are good ball winners. Preferably all 10 outfield players.

It is important to have players who are effective at disturbing opposition build ups. In any given game, a player only averages about 3 minutes on the ball. So what players do off it in the other 87 minutes is pretty important.

The fact that he is fouled so much is the clearest indication for you of the danger which opposition coaches and players feel he poses.

This. Always a useful stat.

These players have been effective in international football over more games than just the Asian Cup.

We can possibly also suggest, the Socceroos have played far higher international calibre opposition than most players and coaches experience as regulars in Championship and League One football.

Austrlaia has played Germany, Belgium, Spain, Holland, Chile, France, Brazil, Croatia, South Korea, Japan and Ecuador over the last few years. This is probably higher calibre opposition than almost any clubs in the world, other than the last 16 of the UEFA Champ League.

I'm not saying what you suggest is wrong, Benjmain, just another way of evaluating the quality of opposition the Socceroos have faced in international football.

I'd also back many of the teams in the Asian Cup to beat Championship teams if played in the heat and humidity of Asia too. The English teams would probably play in flat out mode, instead of subtle rhythm changes and run out of gas.

Most of these international teams are arguably at a far higher level than any English Lower League club. In fact most are better than anything in the EPL ouside the big five.

I'm not sure if you know him, but one Aussie based coach I know in EPL youth claims the English FA thinks football stops at the English Channel.:lol:

Have they beaten any of them? Korea is the only one I can think of and that took two shots and extra time.

So we're comparing how a player performs, and what he learns, from playing 5-6 games a year, rather than what a players learns and how he performs in 40 games a year and in training over that same time?

You could be correct about the off the ball dummy running.

I'll look next time. It is very good for teammates when players do this.

Unfortunately though, Kruse was completely outmuscled in the final, even though he may have been more effective on other AC games.

I think ATM, it would be prudent for Kruse to play in a lower calibre league and get more game time, like Holland or Belgium.

Decentric, for someone who focuses so much on technique why is it so often that you think a player should be dropped/or replaced bases on poor phsyicality, rather than what they do with the ball.

Genuinely curious because you said the same things about Finkler that you did with Kruse when both are standout performers for the respective teams in question.

Edited by jlm8695: 17/8/2015 04:46:28 PM

Those international games are important to evaluate players. In the last few years, with Asian and World Cups, we must've played about 10-12 international games per year.

ACL games are also useful, as are UEFA CL games, to appraise players.

In some of those domestic leagues, some clubs, coaches and players never play against any international opposition.

Skill sets can be applicable to succeeding in a particular domestic league.

I'll give an example. In the Championship, the ball is in the transitions a lot.

Players are probably battling for second balls a lot more that in many other leagues. Some players battling for those second balls may not be their strong point, even though they may be reasonable footballers in other comps that do not require such a major emphasis on winning those second balls.

There are probably more high balls played in the Championship too. To be a good header of the ball is probably more important in the Championship than in most international games.

At the same time, you make a fair point that players play a lot more games in club football. In terms of suitable skill set for international football it can depend on which country and comp those club games are played.

Some Socceroos have said it has taken time to adjust from the style of football they play at club level compared to the Socceroo style.

Mainly countries outside Germany, Holland, Belgium. We don't have any in France and until now, Spain.

Technique is paramount, but a player on average only has the ball in possession for 3 minutes a game. It is also very important what a player does off the ball too. What we want to produce is a combination of a Leckie off the ball, with a Rogic on it. This combo is probably a world class player.

I think in the HAL a lot of the star imported forwards and midfielders, are having the Aussie teammates do a lot of the donkey work, making them look better than they are. Aussie have been instilled with work ethic to make the first eleven.


Leckie is out most effective forward in the 87 minutes without the ball. In the 3 minutes he has the ball, he is probably less effective than any of our other forwards.

Why does Kruse have to go to a lower quality league where he will not be tested like he is in Bundesliga to play regular football? Have you seriously forgotten what he did in the Bundesliga with Fortuna?

Seems pretty positive judging by the forums too. I didn't get to see the 2nd half when they got back to 2-2.

I just noticed Bielefeld is managed by Kruse's old coach.

I didn't acknowledge this in an earlier response, Ben, but you have made a very sage point about evaluating a player over a sustained period of a season.=d>

From the perspective of a coach, though, we are constantly told by football boffins from the world powerhouses, that uniformity of curriculum is important. So where our players play their football in Europe is important.

It doesn't just extend to football, it also extends to teaching methodology. I'm hearing exactly the same message in my profession. In education, despite the misinformation in the media, Australia is a world leader, being ranked from 4th to 10th.

You know you're stretching for something positive to say when all you can find is that a player ran well without the ball. Kruse is okay enough but like most Australian forwards, massively overrated. I can understand the desperation to try and find positive talking points about the attacking prowess of Australian footballers, but the reality is that there's very little to go around relatively speaking.

Like Benjamin, also a very good question, JLM.=d>

What we are looking for are complete players. Our closest are Milligan, Luongo, Mooy, Sainsbury, Spira, Holland and Troisi. All are effective distributors and ball winners. Berisha and Broich are also a more all round forwards than many of the other imported players in the HAL.

My comments on Finkler certainly upset other Victory fans.

Recently cricketer Ryan Harris retired. He made a sage comment. He claims that most on he other side of the fence, rank players as unequivocally great or terrible. I think this extends to football too.

There is very little difference between players at Socceroo level according to coaches. Fans think differently.

Edited by Decentric: 17/8/2015 07:13:42 PM

Because by playing regularly, and being a major player in a coach's game plans, it is far better for development than coming off the bench for short periods, or even worse, not getting a run at all. If Kruse becomes a regular, great.

Given his lack of tenacity in winning hard balls, low physical and core strength, I think his incomplete skill set is not good enough for a regular in the upper echelons of the Bundesliga. I hope he proves me wrong and plays regularly .

When kruse plays with a good through ball specialist he looks like scoring every couple of minutes in the bundesliga

He has very good timing in his runs behind

He is one of the more clever players i have seen using his moderate skillset to frequently create something from nothing

I can pontificate on Holland.

For the Roos he was a good distributor, and passed quite accurately.

It is important to note, and this was emphatically laid down by the esteemed Dutch KNVB coaches, that the onus on opening passing lanes, is the movement of other players off the ball . If Holland doesn't have players opening passing lanes in front of him, his passing options may be limited to sideways and backwards.

Holland has better ability than most other central midfielders, to take his first touch forwards in an attacking sense.

He was also a good ball winner.

I'm astonished Ange dropped him.

It is very hard to come back from an acl injury
Players can take up to 2 years before they get back to where they were and that is if they get game time under his belt

Look at sarota. Was a standout before he did his acl. Comes back and cant get a game in the eredivisie or the a league

I think Australian soccer players should think more seriously about moving to Francophone Europe. The culture and lifestyle is much more suited to a relaxed state of mind and involves less physical pressure. The language is also quite simple to get a hold of.

I haven't seen him play in the Bundesliga.

It is as high a quality league as any in the world. It is a very elite league.

Welcome to the forum.

I won't hold your politics against you.:lol:

Thank you Decentric. I have been reading this forum for the past week and there seems to be a bit of nonsense going on along with far too images posted in threads for my liking, but I'm glad to be here.

I refuse to give that post, or you Heineken, the dignity of quoting that disgusting post. Have some respect.