wow great stuff maty he's almost played more champions league football then schwarzer already lol

Dutch article on Juric here, probably the most interesting thing is his wage:



Since this is a dutch paper they will be talking about Euros and so at current exchange rates he is on at minimum just over $600,000. I have also read that the minimum wage relates to your own players wages and with Roda with some of the lower wages in the league you can assume AZ is pissing away a lot of cash for Babalj to sit in the youth team and there is a reason A-league clubs don't want him. I am guessing these wage requirements don't apply to De Silva since Roma is paying his wages.

Also just because it is Juric there is this in the article



Edited by moofa: 20/8/2015 09:52:01 AM

Luongo's performance today rated very highly by QPR fans and players. Looked very classy on the ball. Highlights are on the SBS World Game page

Picked up an assist for the final goal.

As much as you can claim assists on long range belters. Luongo played brilliantly though and it would probably be a toss up between him or Phillips for MoTM. Must admit i was regretting getting up early and watching the game when we went 2-0 down but am a happy little R's fan now.
Here is the link btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=161&v=qLc7lNzWOkI

Edited by scotch&coke: 20/8/2015 10:52:04 AM

Should have scored as well with that one on one near the end.

Almost scored a nice goal at the 25 second mark aswell

Well played Mat(t).

I haven't seen the highlights but based on what folk are saying, he's improving in the areas where he had weaknesses. This stands Aus in very good stead. With Ryan better at the shot-stopping part of keeping, we're gonna be much better defensively.

Hmmm, shame about Rogic not getting game time.

I can't see him getting game time against Malmö on the road. Unless they're two nil down, they're not likely to play him, surely?

I hope he's not too far down the pecking order to rack up regular minutes this season. About that we will see.

Rogic is probably part of a squad roation where he is likely to no play no more than a game a week and probably the less important ones

I think if he gets enough games he could prove to be better than johansen

Hopefully Celtic get through and then Rogic gets some gametime in the group stage.

melbourne terrace describes how Celtic play 4-2-3-1 and have a kind of attack setting and a contain setting. The attack setting being with a high defensive line (I'm guessing the fullbacks operate as wingbacks, to some extent) and the three attacking midfielders play fairly central and rotate to drag the defenders out of position (Christ that's a beautiful system :d ). For the contain setting, the attacking midfielders who are out wide play as more conventional wingers and they look to score on the counter-attack.

It's really, really bright football on the part of Deila, I think.

Now, I would imagine, for attack setting, Rogic is always a good chance of gametime. I mean those three attacking midfielders move around so surely Rogic can be any one of those three attacking midfielders? Surely Rogic and Johansen can start when Celtic play that with a kind of attack setting?

For defense setting, there's only one position that Rogic can play; CAM. There's only one CAM compared to three CAMs (when they're playing a more attacking brand of football). So in those circumstances, it's Johansen, Commons or Rogic.

As BrisbaneBhoy points out, it's hard to say how good Rogic is because he hasn't played enough.

I hope that Celtic qualify for the Champion's League group stage. Being biased, I hope Celtic play a lot with the attack setting in league football and that Rogic gets gametime. I hope he turns out to be the best CAM and, as a result, gets to start in the Champion's League group stage

Interesting that two players I've never seen play, Commons and Johansen are keeping Rogic out of the Celtic team.

Now these guys must be gifted to keep Rogic out of the team. If they are this good, surely I would've heard of them as international players? I haven't.

Aside from Harry Kewell, from what I've seen of Rogic play for the Socceroos, he is peerless as a ball carrier and 1v1 exponent. His first touch, turning from back to front of the pitch, is so good , he can turn blind from receiving straight balls and maintain possession. He is one of the best players, and only players, we've ever produced in Socceroo history who can do this.

So how do Commons and Johansen compare to Rogic in terms of:

First touch.

Ball Carrying.

Handling speed.

Two footedness.

Striking the ball (passing, shooting and heading).

1v1 Attacking skills.

1v1 Defensive skills.

Game sense.

Stamina.

Mental strength.

Experience.

Ability to follow game plan instructions.

Leadership.

Communication skills.

Ability to play as part of a team unit.


If Commons and Johansen are better than Rogic by some margin , they are better and more talented than almost any player in Socceroo history, outside Harry Kewell. They must be incredible players, probably far too good for the SPL. Which national teams do they play for?

If Lucas Neill, Craig Moore, Skoko, Zelic, Okon, Dominic Longo, Davidson, Holman, Grella, Jedinak, Chipper, Emo, Sterjovski, Ljubo, Frank Farina, David Mitchell, Behich, Oar, Tiatto, Bulldog Slater, Yankos, Archie, Craig Johnston, Hayden Foxe, Rostyn Griffiths, Aloisi, Lazaridis, Leckie, et al, can have successful European careers, in Serie A, Spain, the EPL, France, Bundesliga, Belgian League, Eredivisie, Greece or Turkey, then surely Rogic can play at this level too?

For the Socceroos, none of the aforementioned former and current Socceroos have been as potent a force, single handedly , as Rogic was against South Korea ( in a friendly), Ecuador ( in a friendly), Jordan ( in a WCQ), in those games. He is that rare phenomenon in Oz football history - a special player.=d>

I have doubts about Rogic's current stamina and 1v1 defensive skills. He has plenty of work to do in these areas.

However, in terms of first touch, 1v 1 attacking skills, ball carrying ability, comfort in shielding and holding onto the ball in confined space, none of the aforementioned Socceroos have the sum total of Rogic's ability in these areas.

The problem with Celtic is, they play piss ant domestic teams on a regular basis, until Rangers get back into the SPL. Once an incumbent in Celtic, or Rangers, since they win every week in the SPL, it is difficult to change a winning combination.

Rogic needs to play in Holland or Belgium, where any team plays against far greater quantity of quality teams than Celtic do on a weekly basis, apart from the Scottish giants' European comps.

In Holland or Belgium, any team one plays for is going to play much tougher competition than Celtic do week in and week out in the SPL. There will surely be greater turnover in starting elevens than Celtic.

Football is a game of opinions. Nearly all Aussies playing Europe have been overlooked by many coaches, until they find one who appraises them differently.

Also, Malmo, are only a semi- pro unit, or they were just a few years ago. At one stage Sweden was only a semi pro league. If Celtic are struggling to beat them, they are hardly too good to keep Rogic out of their line up.










Edited by Decentric: 20/8/2015 04:41:09 PM

decentric just upset all the celtic fanboys.. gonna be some big green tears pissing out here...

maybe you should look at a couple celtic games and see how much of an impact johansen commons and rogic make...

FYI johansen has caps for norway imr

Edited by inala brah: 20/8/2015 04:50:41 PM

I admit that Brisbane Bhoy and Melbourne Terrace know a lot about Celtic in terms of style and the machinations of the club. Both know about football too.

For all I know Commons and Johansen may be better than any players in Aussie history. When I've cited many Socceroos may have played a lot of international football in WCQs, Asian Cup Qualifiers, World Cup and Asian Cups, Commons and Johansen must be extraordinary players, and any others keeping Rogic out of the Celtic line up as an attacking mid.

It would be interesting to see how good Commons and Johansen are at that that level of international football, if they've ever played at it.

Many Oz coaches and former pro players in Australia rate Rogic as being more talented than any of the illustrious list of Aussies I've suggested have been successful in Europe.

Norway cannot even qualify for European Champs, let alone World Cups. So in any given European qualifying group, there would at best be one or two teams unequivocally better than Australia as an international team.

It is not as if Norway play against Spain, Holland, France and Italy all in their qualifying group for European Champs or World Cups.

After this illustrious quartet, if one adds Germany, England, Portugal and Belgium, Australia is of similar calibre to most of the rest of European teams as a collective unit, particularly if playing away from the European continent in South America, Africa or Asia.

Which international team does Chris Commons play for?

I don't have time atm to break down their individual skillset atm. The short of it is that Commons is good technically, has experience in the role, extremely good sense of attacking positioning and has a wicked shot in his trick bag which means he bags a lot of goals. Johansen has an outstanding work rate and has some very sharp movement in the box, which along with his technical ability means he is very good at distributing the ball under pressure and creating chances .

Great example here



Saying "they can't be that good because they aren't well known International players" ignores the context for many players in Europe who didn't work out with their Country for whatever reason but were good enough to be there. Commons was never used properly by idiot managers like Craig Levine and gave up to focus on Celtic.

Rogic certainly has superior ability in 1v1 duels and passing skills but imo he needs to improve his stamina and movement off the ball in Ball Possession to really seize his spot in the first team. He'll push Commons out eventually if he can get a bit more fluid in his role and embrace this rotating across the front 3 Attacking midfielders concept as well as start having some confidence to make his own chances in the box.

Also, Malmo aren't semi pro and haven't been for a long time. They flogged Red Bull Salzburg the other week, who have in turn Flogged Ajax fairly recently. They are a competent and regular enough club at Europa League level.

Here is Commons' international career according to Wikipedia.


Although he was born in England, Commons qualifies to play for Scotland through his paternal grandmother who was born in Dundee.[80] On 12 August 2008, he was named in the Scotland squad for a friendly against Northern Ireland on 20 August.[81] He made his international debut in that game, coming on as a 62nd-minute substitute for James Morrison.[82] He made his competitive debut for Scotland in a 2010 World Cup qualifier against Macedonia on 6 September, again coming on as a substitute, this time for Paul Hartley.[83] Commons' first full 90 minutes in international football came in Scotland's 1–0 home defeat to Argentina on 19 November 2008.[84]

His form for Derby in the 2010–11 season led to speculation of a Scotland recall, with Commons stating "They're well aware that I can play for Scotland. All I can do is concentrate on playing well and scoring goals for Derby and hope that I grab their attention."[85] The following month he was recalled to the squad.[86] His first international goal came in a 3–0 victory over the Faroe Islands on 16 November 2010.[87] Commons was also awarded the Sky Sports man of the match.[88]

Commons withdrew from the Scotland squad for the 2011 Nations Cup matches in May 2011, claiming that he was exhausted at the end of the 2010–11 season.[89] Injuries and loss of form meant that he was not selected during the 2011–12 season by Scotland manager Craig Levein.[89] Despite Commons showing improved form early in the 2012–13 season, Levein claimed that he would not pick Commons because he had seven alternative players available.[89]

On 21 May 2013, Commons announced his retirement from international football, having won 12 caps and scored two goals for Scotland.[90]

I more often than not agree with your opinions decentric, although I dont vocalise them. but I think you have been a bit off the boil recently (leckie vs kruse and now this)

'Interesting that two players I've never seen play, Commons and Johansen are keeping Rogic out of the Celtic team.

Now these guys must be gifted to keep Rogic out of the team. If they are this good, surely I would've heard of them as international players? I haven't.'

you seem like a logical person but that was poor, commons is a quality footballer (even if he may be playing in the subpar spl)

Commons and Johansen should definitely be keeping Rogic out of the side at the moment. In 6 months time though? We'll see.

Inman scored for Crewe.

and what is Cisak doing down in League Two?

I'm not sure which team was defending , but it was fairly poor individually and collectively.

I'm also not sure which player Commons is.

ATM it is plausible to assume other than playing European comps in the early stages, Commons and Johansen rarely play against opposition of the calibre Australia does at international level.

I know Rogic hasn't played some of these games. The immutable fact remains that the Socceroos have played France, Brazil, Belgium, Holland, Spain, Germany, Chile, Ecuador, Croatia, South Korea and Japan in the last few years. There is not tougher competition than these opponents in world football. And, Australia has been competitive in most of these games, particularly under Ange.

Also, given most Socceroos in Europe pay at a higher level than the SPL, Rogic's Aussie teammates play regularly against higher calibre opposition than Commons and Johanesen do.

There are current Socceroos playing in Holland, Belgium, Turkey, Spain, EPL, Switzerland, Bundi 1 and 2, yet none are anywhere near as good as Rogic at playing international calibre opposition.

Rogic might have a poor engine and not be that effective in his 1v1 defensive skills. Yet in the first 15 minutes against Ecuador, 15 minutes off the bench against Jordan at Etihad, and about 60 minutes against South Korea a few years ago, he terrorised them. He often he had 2, at times 3, players trying to get the ball off him - unsuccessfully.

Of course this opens up gaps in defences, with other players being able to be unmarked in open space.


MT from what you say Commons, who quit international football after Scotland achieved nothing, and Johansen definitely don't have Rogic's ability to do what he has done for the Socceroos to date.

From his perspective, Rogic is wasting his time in the SPL at Celtic. He is a threat to far higher calibre players than what he sees week in and week out in the SPL, and probably some of Celtic's European rivals too.
.

Edited by Decentric: 20/8/2015 06:49:02 PM

i dont think you can compare a couple 15 min cameos in international and one 60 minute to players that put in a solid effort week in week out.

and i dispute that international teams are the best in the world. considering how much time they get together and the limitaitons of birth certificates.

i would say the top 6 - 10 teams in europe/uk would be better than the to 6 - 10 international teams. just look at teams like barcelona and madrid that buy the cream of the cream of the cream...

I'm not contending that Commons is a poor footballer.

I'm saying what level has he, and Johansen, been tested compared to the Socceroos' international opponents and the level Rogic has achieved in international football?



I have not said with Kruse /Leckie that one is a better player. I've highlighted their relative strengths and weaknesses.

Leckie is possibly better playing defences deploying a high defensive line.

Kruse is possibly more effective playing against a team playing a deep defensive line.




Edited by Decentric: 20/8/2015 06:47:30 PM

The top teams in the world are probably the teams that reach the last 16 of the UEFA Champ League.

However, the teams that have won World Cups, or reached WC finals in the least 20 years, are better than most other club teams that don't reach the last 16, or even 8, of the UEFA CL.

Serious pal, this is a weak argument. You can not rate a player based on whether or not their National team qualifies for European Championship's and/or World Cup's. If one did, then surely one would consider players like Giggs, Bale, George Best, a large number of the Australian "Golden Generation" as inferior players?

I have a terrible head cold plus vomits, so I apologise in advance if I misunderstood your point/argument you were trying to make.

fwiw i thought your statements about kruse and leckie were pretty matter of fact and were not making any outrageous statements. keep them comin...

You're better than that line of argument mate, come on.

Agreed

I've had a shocker for most of the winter.:cry:

I'm throwing a few other points out there to discuss. It is not a compelling, definitive argument, but it throws some light on the scenario in Scotland at Celtic and Rangers.

I'm suggesting that Celtic may not have been tested enough at a high enough level where their weaknesses are shown up on a consistent basis. Weaker teams don't exploit those weaknesses.

It was also difficult for Matt McKay to get a run with Rangers as they won all the time too. Why change winning teams?

Edited by Decentric: 20/8/2015 07:39:11 PM

The point I'm making, is that how often have Johansen and Commons, been exposed to a higher quality opponent found in the bigger tournaments?

By being in a squad that is easily better than any other team in the SPL, playing on a weekly basis against inferior teams is not going to show up weaknesses like it does at a higher level.


How good would Commons and Johansen be playing Australia's international opponents regularly?