and i'm not going to site by, when non nothing like you, keep talking shit about Australia football, base on yes to year ideas

Edited by adrtho: 18/5/2016 02:42:42 AM

Federici starts.

Jordan Holmes on the bench (young Aussie GK).



Edited by playmaker11: 18/5/2016 04:59:54 AM

Fucking quite pyramids again. Fuck of out of aussies abroad with your shit.

Never go full adrtho.

Really puts into perspective how good he's been this season after everything he's had to overcome. All power to him!

Ahahahaaa oh c'mon man, this was a step too far :lol:

retard joke in The Aussies Abroad Thread...well done to you sir

That really does make for great viewing
Whatever his next move is let's just all hope it works out coz he could seriously be the difference between Australia snatching unlikely wins or respectable draws/losses in the Confeds and World Cups

Seriously, how good it is that we finally have an Aussie player with a combination of great ball skills, shooting ability and a willingness to take on and beat his marker/s.

We need more like him.

He is quality but do him and mooy in the same team cancel each other out or do you think they could work well together in the future cause at the moment i don't think its working

Edited by vincenzogold: 18/5/2016 10:00:42 AM

Very different players - Mooy is a talented workhorse, whilst Rogic is the messiah, capable of mercurial magic that can swing games. You'll get a consistent 90 minutes out of Mooy every week, whilst Rogic may drift in and out of games and I think it's been forever since he played a full 90, but there will be a 10 minute patch where he will just tear open a defence with a through ball or have a ping from 30 yards out that goes fizzing into the top corner.

Both are essential to any team - Mooy would carry the workload, whilst Rogic is there to drag us across the line with unbelievable ability. If anything, I think the question is do Mooy and Luongo work in the same team, being in my opinion very similar players.

-----------------------jedi
-------luongo-------------------mooy
---------------------rogic

makes me happy to think of this

put kruse and mclaren up front = its looking tidy for australia right now.

Edited by inala brah: 18/5/2016 07:22:34 PM

Aboslutely. They are entirely different players and bring different ways of scoring goals.

Mooy is the scientist. His passes are pinpoint, his crosses and set pieces precise.

Rogic is the artist. He provides abstract solutions to problems you didn't know existed.

Too unbalanced, imo.

Mooy and Luongo are both poor on the wings. Kruse has to be on the wing. It's madness for him not to be there.

Australia can no way play 442 with a diamond midfield with Jedinak anchoring the diamond. He doesn't have the passing or ball carrying skills to link our defence and attack.

Disaster waiting to happen. Basically, think of Jedinak and Holland passing it sideways to each other under heavy pressure from Oman, minus Holland.

If Jedinak can screen very well, but he then needs to be paired alongside a more technically adept CDM who can ball-carry and make those pinpoint passes. That means 4-2-3-1, not 4-4-2 (diamond).

Maclaren. Maybe. I want to see him play at a higher level and to see him improve in one on ones. But it is handy having Maclaren, Giannou and Cahill.

They don't cancel each other out. But they're too defensively deficient.

It is risky to have two CAMs when one of them is a trequartista, like Rogic. And you certainly can't have two CAMs who aren't defensively sound.

Rogic is a trequartista. A trequartista is creative. He doesn't need to do much defending (although great if he can, as Rogic has been improving there). But there's no responsibility on a trequartista to have great defensive skills.

But the trade-off of having a trequartista (one type of CAM) is that you can't have another CAM, who isn't a defensively brilliant player, playing alongside him. This makes it very tough to play Rogic and Mooy both as CAMs. With a trequartista, you are best served by having two CDMs, one being a robust defensive unit (like Grella) and the other being a box-to-box midfielder with ball-carrying and passing ability (in some ways like Bresciano, in others like Culina).

Good teams will be able to do serious damage to us in the middle of the park with both Rogic and Mooy as CAMs.

It would be interesting if we had a regista type CDM, too. But I can't think of such an Australian player and we don't have the team dynamics for one either.

I think teams should generally try for a particular formation. But there needs to be enough flexibility for a horses for courses approach (which would allow 4-4-2 when appropriate, for instance).

Now, as the kind of stock formation, I think 4-2-3-1 is the most balanced and enables the most control all around the park. I think it means you can dominate central midfield, break down the opposition and not get caught out too easily with two CDMs.

However, some whose opinions I really value seem to think that having two CDMs is not en vogue. They think one CDM and two CAMs. Let's toy with the idea, for argument's sake.

It only works if your CDM is just a beast at screening the defence and at moving around the ball quickly. Jedinak isn't that well-rounded a player. Milligan, maybe, but he's in the Middle-East.

It also means that at least one of your two CAMs, if not both, are outstanding defensively. Mooy isn't quite that good defensively. Good worker but not quite fast enough. Rogic just isn't good enough defensively.

So, basically, no matter how good Rogic and Mooy could be as an attacking combination, they're not good enough defensively.

This means we can't play Rogic and Mooy at the same time against top notch opposition.

I'm still not sold on Mooy. I'm yet to see him do well against actual quality opposition. And I can see chinks in the armour which high quality opponents will probably be able to exploit. We need to see him move to a higher quality league.

As established Australian players go, Rogic is in a class of his own. If fit, he should be an automatic starter. We need to hope he carries on getting gametime at club level and excelling.

----------------------------------Rogic-----------------------------------------------------


----------------Jedinak---------------------------Luongo--------------------------------


Irvine could possibly play the defensive minded CDM. Antonis in one to think of, too

Edited by quickflick: 18/5/2016 09:54:58 PM

Edited by quickflick: 18/5/2016 09:58:12 PM

Sorry this should be in the Australian NT thread. :lol: I'm too easily drawn into these discussions.

Rogic is not a treqawhateveryousaid, he is a central midfielder. He has, and will continue to have all the defensive responsibilities of a central midfielder, if he can't hack it he won't play (don't worry, he will be fine)

This isn't the 90s, there is no room in the team for a player who is a defensive passenger, especially when your focus is on building a team rather than collection of individuals and Anges is. Also, Mooy is very good defensively so not sure what talking about there.

A trequartista.

Rogic is not a central midfielder. Rogic is a central attacking midfielder.

There are different types of central midfielders; namely central defensive midfielders (CDMs) and central attacking midfielders (CAMs). It's great when you find players whose skills cover everything but its rare. Jedinak has his strong-suits and his weaknesses. As does Rogic.

And there's room for players with scant defensive ability. I agree those players need to pull their weight. You want to defend from the striker down. But this doesn't require each and every player to be perfectly accomplished in every facet of football.

They just need to be accomplished in their primary duty. Everything else is a bonus. In any event, Rogic is the only senior Australian player capable of annihilating opponents 1 vs 1 at speed with a number of different maneouvres. When considered in the context of his passing, shooting and positioning, this renders him the most valuable player Australia has by a country mile.

It doesn't matter if Rogic isn't a great defender. It's not his job to be a great defender. That's like requiring a top order batsman to bowl medium-pace outswingers.

As I say, a trequartista is a type of CAM. This is its definition



This is Rogic down to a tee. The one thing to note is that trequartisti, these days, do try to press the opposition a bit more (which Rogic does). But they still aren't required to be defensively strong, by any stretch of the imagination.

Trequartisti are not throwbacks to yesteryear. They're still there.

I think the difference is that these days the highest profile attacking players aren't just technically brilliant, they're also gun athletes who are super quick. These kind of players, Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messi being the best examples, can play any attacking rôle. They're sometimes positionless. This player is a fantasista. It would be terrific if we had such a player.

But still, we have a trequartista who would probably be considered a world beater now if he had grown up in the right part of Europe instead of Aus.

It's not the job of the trequartista to be an excellent defender. And Rogic can play for Australia as our trequartista. It just means that the Socceroos need two CDMs who are very good in defence. We can make do with two of Jedinak, Milligan, Irvine, Luongo and Antonis.

As regards Mooy on the defensive front, he's too slow. This isn't a problem if he's the sole attacking midfielder (assuming he is good enough, which is yet to be established). But if he's playing as a CDM, he would need more speed so he can track back easier. I fear he'll be run around too easily.

Edited by quickflick: 18/5/2016 11:36:09 PM

Full match and two assists for Behich.

Behich played a full 90 for Bursaspor in a 5-2 away win - interestingly Whoscored has him listed as playing as a left-winger and have credited him with two assists and an 8.6 rating. Would be good to see him against England as it seems like he's improved a lot in Turkey.

You're concerning yourself too much with the formation that is written on paper. Both Mooy and Luongo are capable of dropping off to receive the ball from jedinak and start the play. knowing the players we have there the defence would look more like a 4312 and transition into 4132.

I also agree in regards to the width but that can be achieved by simply adding kruse into the mix as one of the front to with the freedom to move wing to wing as required.

Also in one of your other posts you suggest bresc was box to box................ if anything bresc was the most like rogic of any of our past players and you could argue mooy is not dissimilar to culina was.

Sometimes you have to ignore the formation and look more to what the player himself actually brings to the table

Edited by new signing: 19/5/2016 08:10:16 AM

so basically we need Leckie and Rogic to morph into each other and we have Ronaldo 2.0?

Unlike a lot of our Aussies Abroad, he's one of the few who's established in his side and playing week in week out - good to see, hopefully he does enough to reward Ange's faith in him.

Can you make this happen?

Then start cloning

Highlights from Bursaspor's game:

http://www.goalsarena.org/en/video/turkey-spor-toto-super-lig/18-05-2016-mersin-bursaspor.html

Looks like Behich started at LW but occasionally switched to right. Very involved and unlucky not the get a third assist. Only one game but promising signs of him being an alternate attacking option for the Socceroos if Ange persists with Smith and Gersbach at LB..

Wow. About 4 of those 7 goals were a direct result of some shocking defending :lol: :lol: :lol:
Behich tore it up though. Good on him. Nice to see a cheeky nutmeg aswell

Very good post. I made the allusion, in one of my posts, that I can cope with the idea posted by others that we have two CAMs and one CDM. Of course, as you suggest, it wouldn't be quite literal and at least one of the CAMs would do a lot of defensive work (sort of halfway between the CDM and the other CAM)

I still think Rogic and Mooy are too attack-heavy and not defensively good enough. One of them, but not both. Mooy is solid in defence, but he's not quick, which is the kind of defensive capability you'd need in that kind of midfielder who would have to track back a lot.

Luongo and one of them might be a go.

By the way, I didn't mean Bresciano as an out-and-out box-to-box midfielder. I meant aspects of Bresciano's style; namely his ball-carrying ability (maybe best we've had?) is of crucial importance to a box-to-box midfielder we'd love to have, accompanying a trequartista type of player, like Rogic, and a sturdy defensive unit.

Edited by quickflick: 19/5/2016 06:17:21 PM

ok I just want to weigh in on this whole Australian line up debate. That four man midfield of Jedinak, Mooy, Luongo and Rogic can work but not in the way you're thinking. Mooy and Luongo don't have to go wide, our fullbacks can be the width and Jedinak drops back into the defense to make it a 3 man backline when we are in possession. When they have the ball Jedinak jumps back into the midfield and the back four goes back to being the back four. Mooy and Luongo can do some defending. In the transition phase we should be secure with Mile back there and in possession we have a strong ball playing midfield.

i disagree. firstly jedi does that job for us now. and it's not with mooy and luongo on the wing. its more of a 4-1-2-1-2

and it was great when we pulled it out after jordan beat us.