http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLeTW0P2wcJz1-mSZKkbMToe7eeiPovhi3&v=d-ggR2jlKuE&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPFOHBwtqs&feature=relmfu



Edited by krones3: 5/11/2012 07:45:53 PM

I would of liked to have seen the talks on player identification and the skills acquisition drills.

interesting hearing a state coach (not one of the presenters) saying that the physical developed players were also more mentally mature

just shows we are not all on he same bus.
was it paul lonton?

Edited by krones3: 29/9/2012 09:01:03 AM

I thought the point being made was that the players born early in the year could not only had phsical advantages but psychological as well.
A good 2 days in my opinion.

the sap was as a session on 1 v 1, technique players start in corner dribble to cone use a 1 v1 skill and pass to player on the outside centrally located, player on outside takes a touch and dribbles to corner he is replaced bt the passing player who has just done the 1 v 1 skill, continuous exercise, repeat exercise using left foot.
oppposed 1v1 , rectangle pitch 2 teams of players one on the short side and one on the long side, first player of team dribbles into square and passes into empty goal and beomes defender, as soon as he passes team 2 player attacks and its 1 v 1 , both teams keep score,continuous game, change the teams starting position over and keep score, finally make the distance to dribble into the square the same .

finish with game 4 v4 in middle of pitch 3 goals in each half, 1 defender in the defensive zone, 1 attacking player on the outside as a winger. have to go 1 v1 into the end zone and score in 1 of 3 goals

The SAP didnt use a strict positioining game as per the perfect session from kelly cross, but the game at the end is a generic postioning game , even though kelly cross definition of postioning games are that they are posession games which aint strictly true

ok thanks it just came across as defending the selection of early developers, yeap a good 2 days.

either way it is incorrect football maturity comes from varied exposure to the game.
as for overall maturity some of the biggest apprentices i have worked with are the least mature.

I think the important part was 'could'. The discussion was on the effect of RAE and the physical advantage of being 9,10 or 11 months older than those born later in the year in the u11/12 age group. What i thought was being explained was that those players born earlier in the year 'could' also have a pshchological advantage also.
I agree with your point about exposure to the game this was also discussed.

I have had the great pleasure of watching a large group of boys grow from U9's to U18's.
I can honestly say some that were fast are now slow some that were slow are fast some that were fat are now slim some that were slim are heavy some that had ability now have none some that were small grew tall some that were world beaters no longer play some that were healthy now smoke and drink some spend more time in the company of girls than with a football some of those who's parents spent more time on politics than football skills are now distant from their parents.
Those that concentrated only on skill are still playing and loving the game.

We attend the Tasmanian state FFA conference in a few days time.

I'll keep you guys posted, but it will probably be similar to the Queensland one.

Krones, any chance of changing the thread title to FFA state conferences, please?

A number of us are probably doing these in different states, with similar content. It will be interesting to note points of differences between states.

I've just done the first day, and its the best FFA stuff I've done since I did KNVB. Alistair Edwards, seems to have drawn heavily on Clarefontaine, the French national academy, for the FFA NC.

Have to say one of our local born and bred Tassie boys, a former PE teacher, and now NTC head coach, is the best football presenter I've had since KNVB's Ad Derkson and Arie Schans. Not as a coach on the pitch, but as a presenter/lecturer in the classroom. He is decidedly superior to any of the top guys I've had in the FFA hierarchy!

yes. how?

When you press edit on the top right hand side of the first post in the thread, the author can also change the title of the thread too.

The thread title comes up in a separate caption above the post.

The first session was taken by Australian under 20s coach , Alistair Edwards. He is also supposedly Han Berger's successor, currently being groomed to take over from the Dutchman.

As a presenter, all our state instructors were infinitely better lecturers/presenters than Alistair Edwards, from a teaching /lecturing perspective. AE was proficient, but Tassie FFA's Mike Edwards, Dean May and Kurt Reynolds, were all infinitely better, although less experienced.

Mike Edwards, current Tassie NTC women's coach, is the best I've heard in Australia from FFA. A local boy and a trained teacher, he is peerless as a football coach lecturer/presenter in Australia. He nearly matches KNVB's Schans and Derkson, who travel all over the world.

Alistair Edwards first lecture was about current updates to the FFA NC. Essentially, he said the FFA NC is designed for ages 19 and below.

AE, I think, has had a huge influence in he compilation of the NC. Basically, the NC is designed to train Australian players to play Proactive football (circulation football), like Barca, Arsenal, Brisbane and now Victory, as opposed to Reactive football, trying to capitalise on opponents' mistakes.

I found the subject matter extremely interesting.






Edited by Decentric: 6/11/2012 10:43:40 AM

They look interesting.

Positioning game doesn't mean possession game. I'm only just learning this stuff. I think the FFA NC is not essentially KNVB at all. I think there are many elements of Clairefontaine. Alistair Edwards constantly referred to it.

Match analyses are similar to KNVB. However, compiling coaching sessions is more comprehensive in the FFA NC. ATM I prefer KNVB as it is a simpler concept in that one learns football by playing football, but, in a structured way.

The FFA NC is compiled eclectically. There appears to be methodology from France, Spain, Holland and Germany.

The second session was a Talent presentation lecture by Alistair Edwards.

It was about the novice footballer's progression from novice to world class player.

The research Edwards compiled, advanced that a player's intrinsic motivation was an important factor in determining ultimate success at the highest level. He urged parents not to push players to train.

Even as a national team underage coach, Edwards maintained he never worries about youth players making mistakes. He said if they didn't make mistakes, they would never learn how to play good, Proactive football. Edwards suggested that players' development was paramount over results.
Rather than playing a Reactive style of football, like Australia did when he was a Socceroo, he again pushed the line that Proactive football was paramount in Australia ultimately becoming a better footballing nation.

Given the criticism about Australia's youth performances and the lack of technical players, classic number 10s being produced, he waxed lyrical about Daniel Da Silva and Josh McDOnald as two players to watch out for in the imminent future.

He also posited some arguments to what we call Bitters and Eurosnobs on forums- guys who are particularly negative about any defeat Australia suffers.
1. AE maintains if one googles, "Age cheating in underage World Cups, " it will show many Asian and African countries playing overage players in competitions. Firstly, to achieve success and/or they simply don't know the age of some players.
2. European clubs have not released the best players for international tournaments/qualifying games.

He also elucidated Relative Age Effect and how it was detrimental to Australia's success.

It is not that his team lost. The fact is they failed to play anything that resembled the type of football we are trying to develop.

There was footage at the conference of Australian underage male teams playing good football against Asian teams defending deep, playing half presses, with languid squeezing. I didn't see the under 16 Iran game, but I heard it looked bad. I also raised that point on the conference floor when it was presented.

Another point Edwards made was that if Australia loses a few matches, then it would be ridiculous to tear up the National Curriculum in its entirety. Like Ange Postecoglou, there is a clear concept of a style of football FFA wants Australia to play. Even if we are not great at it yet, it is the only way to achieve long term success and for Australia to grow as a football nation, according to FFA.

Edwards also suggested it was easier to play Reactive football - a game plan waiting for your opponent to make a mistake. That is to send at least three players to squeeze and full press intensively, trying to force the Aussie defence to make mistakes.

At the last World Cup, Spain, Holland and Germany all had similar qualities in the FIFA Technical Report at the end of the competition involving Proactive football - a possession game, with playing out from the back a feature. I'm not sure if we have an eclectic mix of these football federations in the FFA NC we can go wrong?

First of all his team played nothing like what he professes o believe (he is only saving his own skin.)

2nd his boys play for reading and did not go through the player pathway

3rd of course parents should not tell their kids to practice football nor their times, tables,reading,spelling,clean their room or pick up their things,brush their teeth, go to church,how to eat properly or make good food choices.
I am positive when a kid gets older he will gain all the motivation he needs to do all these things and then some.Some how by an act of god or parliament he will have developed life long study habits and a good work ethic.please:oops:

I can understand your point.

However, I can't entirely agree with it in this context.

Research has shown that creativity is developed through an unrestrictive environment of discovery rather than a strict environment full of rules and following others' commands. The less strict/demanding the parents, the more creative the child in its future.

In football, this means avoiding parents as much as possible - as bad as that may sound from a parenting point of view - from giving their children instruction.

We've all heard or witnessed some parents acting as sideline coaches. "Kick the ball now!" "Run!" "To the striker," and so forth. This, as Alistairs Edwards seems to be professing, results in the development of a reactive footballer, over the proactive footballer that makes their own decisions.

The same thing can happen away from the club/match, where a parent, while their intentions are good in trying to develop the footballer's skills, could be giving instructions that will either result in reactive mentality (after receiving instructions on how/when to play) or developing isolated skill (which cannot be properly applied to a game situation). It's fine for a player to kick a ball on their own account, there's nothing wrong with that (we've seen this with players like Marcos Flores, who was attached to a ball his whole childhood), but for the parents to make them practice is entirely different.

If a player is pushed (forced) to train, they'll be less motivated, less likely to learn, less likely to discover.


Basically, you can't be creative if you can't or don't want to learn to know what will and won't work.

There were videos showing them play well in the earlier rounds of the qualification campaign.

Agree with the second point about some European players.

Steelinho has answered the third pretty comprehensively. Football is different from other educational pursuits and chores.

State FFA TD Kurt Reynolds took the third session as a lecture then a practical session on the pitch -

Possession-based football leads to Positioning Games.


The inside lecture was good. Kurt, although very nervous, was better than AE as a presenter/lecturer. He is more articulate and better spoken grammatically. Kurt did a lot of stuff on the killer pass, splitting the lines.

There was a lot of analysis of Barcelona's playing style. They are so effective, because when Kurt stopped the video, and another IT device I can't use, they had about 6 passing options though 6 passing lanes being open. Incredible! Barcelona's off the ball movement is so good.

It also reinforced KNVB stuff we did on triangles and diamonds. Except that by using this IT computer diagrammatic program, with straight lines, the diamond was considered the optimum geometric shape. This is through having a passing lane being available to the right and left, with one straight one. A diamond with a dot, also meant a straight short pass or a straight long pass.

Must admit when I've worked on playing out from the back, I've focused too much on the left and right backs. With this diagrammatic detail, and its indelible imprint, I should now be able to focus on the diamond, or diamond with a dot.

Kurt's practical session wasn't as good as his lecture. The NTC players had some newies, including a kid from the Community Football Program last year. We didn't know he was in the NTC. Hence, because of the many new players, the skill of the NTC wasn't that good. The session demonstrating the positioning games was effective.

There is a four stage model, that is different from KNVB, that ATM I don't like as much. I think it is based on the French Clairefontaine model.

1. Passing game.
2. Positioning game.
3. Game training.
4. Training game. (This is where the coach simply observes, strictly not coaching) to evaluate if the objective of his /her session is achieved).


The fourth is certainly a good step, and different from KNVB. It is a good refinement.






Edited by Decentric: 8/11/2012 06:16:12 PM

Completely out of context.

Walk out in your street any kids playing, any playing football,my guess no
Walk to the nearest football park any kids playing, any playing football,my guess no again.
So if you have no brother near your own age chances are you will only play football with a club or at futsal.
i totally agree that creativity is developed through an nonrestrictive environment of discovery rather than a strict environment full of rules and following others' commands. The less strict/demanding the parents, the more creative the child in its future.
we do not live in Europe and football is the third popular ball game until that changes many talented players will have to hone their skill practicing on their own not the most exciting or stimulated chore but unfortunately a reality under the circumstances.

and another thing Edwards can go on all e likes about age cheats but.
Remember this Edwards i am not judging the other teams i am not looking for results i am judging your team chosen by you trained by you and how they play. I have fond that they did not play according to the curriculum and that you are the one who must carry all the blame full stop.

You might not treated my comment seriously but certain people in the footballing community has good wraps on Alistair Edwards as a coach, dont judge too much on his results in youth football i can see him coaching in the a-league in the near future.

Also the football the joeys played under him in the recent AFC tournament they played some good possession football but for some reason they looked physically smaller than the Irani counterparts which resulted with joeys physically out-runned and out-played by them.

Maybe the Relative Age Affect had an affect too as i recalled the joeys being the youngest team out of all teams in the tournament. :-k

Edited by Barca4Life: 8/11/2012 08:13:53 PM

Developing Task Based Coaching Sessions - Mike Edwards , Tasmanian NTC coach for women

This was a bit of revision of KNVB Youth Certificate and I suspect somewhere later in the FFA C /B lIcence.

There were the four main moments of play.

Even though Defensive and Attacking Transition weren't as used and as explicit as KNVB terms, I liked BP for Ball Possession and BPO for Ball Possession by the Opposition.


There were also the five Ws, though not as comprehensive as KNVB.

What is going wrong?

Who are the key players involved?

When (which moment ) is the problem occurring?

Where on the field is it happening?

Why is it happening (key elements)?

Then there was discussion about setting up a 4 phase training ground session as delineated by Kurt Reynolds in the previous session.

Mike Edwards is an outstanding presenter /lecturer. He noted points made by participants earlier in the conference in Alistair Edwards' and Kurt Reynolds' sessions. He then extrapolated them to encourage discussion in his session. Mike also twisted people's answers if they were hesitant, to make the points sound better than they were, praising hesitant participants.

We had to analyse an Arsenal/Stoke game for two minutes then proffer an analysis of aspects of the game for both teams.

Actually it looked a lot like educational practices I learnt as a teacher in professional development sessions. The proforma was designed to make a coaching session football related.

It was a very good session taken by a good presenter late in the day.






Edited by Decentric: 8/11/2012 10:17:32 PM

I should add to Kurt Reynolds' session:

Positioning Principles

*Make the field big.

*Left, right , middle and far.

*How many options can we provide?

*Get between defenders

*Get between the lines

*Get away from defenders

*Can you face forward?

The Iranian team could also have been overage. Alistair Edwards claims that a number of Asian teams/players, who have been good underage, have faded quickly as seniors. The implication being that they starred in underage competitions, because they were older and more physically developed than other players.

I take Krones' point that somebody should be culpable, and that some young Euroroos were not developed in Australia, but like you've heard Barca, people who I respect in FFA, seem to rate Alistair Edwards very highly.






Edited by Decentric: 8/11/2012 10:25:26 PM