It is FFA's ultimate desire to have professional clubs and Australian Premier League clubs running the Skills Acquisition program within their clubs rather than FFA.

One big diference between us and Holland, is they have something like 70 professional clubs developing youth players, whereas we have very little pro programs for the elite in Australia.

This is one of the final stages of Berger's master plan.

Edited by Decentric: 5/2/2013 04:00:14 PM

From the information available the SAP program being operated by Clubs is more down to the lack of investment by the FFA.

The original SAP and skillaroos program was to be much larger than is currently, remeber Bergers rants not long ago. The CLubs running the program is more about the FFA's inability to fund the program.

I have to admit on the one hand it is good to have a designated program for junior development at 9-12yo's.
On the other hand I wonder if it is too much of a cookie cutter approach, not allowing for iinovation or diversity.

So is the program going to be abandoned by the FFA due to funds?

If so I think it's the right step forward considering the clubs produce the players like how it's done all over the world.
It makes sense that too considering the newly established APL and hopely down the track ALL a-league clubs will take over youth development to which is a lot more efficient model.

No they are not abandoning the program, they will keep the skillaroos and the NTC programs that are fed from the skillaroos.

The SAP program for 9-12yo will be run by the "Elite Clubs" of the NCR's APL.

It is a step forward and a big change from the FFA and State Federations view on who is best to mange player development. While it was also about capacity to fund the program on a scale that would see benefit.

Personally I would like to see more investment in Futsal with a majority of juniors from 7 to 13 playing Futsal. Where we will see more situations for children's early football development based on "Letting the Game be the Teacher", be more reflective of the South American approach to player development and more reflective of a "Street Football" approach.

From seeing the SAP course this last weekend from a participant's perspective , it appears to be based on some Coerver technical exercises. However, there is a lot of coaching player actions, and, providing coaching cues to players to improve decision-making and game sense (insight).

Another way of looking at it is to call it a hybrid of Coerver techniques, with a massive amount of game sense incorporated.

In the past, I've coached a massive amount of technique, thinking that the quality of drills and the shape of 4v4 and 7v7 ( in relation to a 1-4-3-3 shape for eleven a side football) will develop players. The game will be the teacher, if you like. This is KNVB from 2008.

The FFA NC is more interventionist in the SAP and Advanced Coaching courses. This may be the Clairefontaine, or German influence.

I know you've seen a lot of coaching in action Arthur, but have you seen a SAP trainer?

There is a lot of emphasis on the creating the autonomous, thinking player who can solve problems.







Edited by Decentric: 5/2/2013 04:12:28 PM

Coerver has evolved from the old style isolated method that everyone calls coerver.
Interventionist, what the 'stop stand still' method espoused on the old english fa courses but to be used sparingly when coaching juniors.
the game will be teacher is the opposite of stop stand still method ; i/m confused what sap course recommends, can you enlighten us.

I'll try.

When I've watched the state head SAP trainer coach the SAP and Skilleroos, and when he was the coach educator for the SAP course for rep coaches last weekend, he constantly used the methodology of the Advanced Coaching courses. Some of the exercises he used I have seen used by Coerver.

Alf Galustian, world Coerver head, or Jason Lanscar, Australasian Coerver head, simply show the drills on videos as being good per se, because of the inherent structure of the drill.

Some of these will probably appear in the new Performance Section videos on the new 442 section at the top of this page started by 442's Andy Jackson. Andy is a holder of the FFA B Licence and rep coach in Sydney. He has trained with FFA staff coaches and educators who are now training me.

With the state SAP trainer, he is always looking at:

1. Team task

2. Player actions

3. Coaching cues.

This is certainly in the phases called Positioning Games or Game training from FFA Advanced Coaching.

In the SAP there is not the Warm Up or Passing Games , because the methodology is primarily aimed at kids before they undergo the growth spurt. This is based on the premise that kids from 13 years and under don't need a warm up to avoid pulling muscles.

SAP has a three phase training ground program.

1. Introduction- all exercises with ball with a demonstration by the coach.

2. Skill training.

3. Skill Game.




The three phases of SAP are approximately the same as stages 2, 3 and 4 with Advanced Coaching methodology.

2. Positioning games.

3. Game training.

4. Training game.



With player actions and coaching cues the SAP trainer is always asking questions of players such as:

"Can I receive the ball with the correct body shape to play forwards?"

"Can my first touch take the ball away from my opponent?"

"When we have possession of the ball can we move the ball forwards to a team-mate on goal (unclear possession) as soon as possible?"

"Can we receive the ball in a position to run forwards or pay the ball forwards or play forwards to a team-mate in a more advanced position?"

"Can I change pace to beat my opponent?"

"Can I change the run of my opponent with my first touch?"



These cues and player actions are also imparted in Advanced Coaching courses.


Some of the above isn't rocket science. The state TD was exposed to this sort of stuff when he was under the tutelage of Ron Smith at the AIS many moons ago.

With Coerver, as I understand it, these coaching cues are not part of the program.

The difference is from the old days, that this line of heuristic questioning is now going right down to the bottom level of FFA Advanced Coaching courses and now into the SAP courses.

Coaches trained in the old Advanced Courses are finding the new methodology and curriculum light years in front. Nevertheless, SAP trainers will admit the the best graduates of Coerver are our best technicians. SAP also adds Insight and Communication in the TIC theoretical construct.

According to FFA coaching apparatchiks we are still in front of other top Asian nations in terms of game sense and tactical awareness, but well behind on technique.

If we catch up our technical qualities, we will dominate. If they catch up their game sense and tactical awareness they will dominate us.








Edited by Decentric: 5/2/2013 08:24:36 PM

Further use of SAP.



Last night I conducted a session with a female state league ( V League) senior team. This is homework in preparation for my C Licence practical test in a few weeks.

In a four phase program from the FFA Advanced Coaching pro forma, I realised that their technical skills were way below their game sense (Insight).
Having said this, the C Licence participants had to analyse the state NTC, comprising both females and male players playing each other in mixed gender teams. The female NTC players often had better game sense, speed of thought, but the NTC males had vastly superior technique and athleticism.

With the V League club in the Warm Up, the players weren't too keen performing isolated technical exercises, which I think they really need on an ongoing basis. Once I changed the drills into movement and more game orientated, the intensity increased markedly. Thanks Norm Boardman and state SAP trainer!:) They have a few beauties!

The SAP technical exercises, which involved game orientated facets of play, seemed to really motivate players aged from 17 -36 in the V League club.

The session went really well after that , using KNVB and C Licence structures, with words and pictures.

They went so well in Game Training, that I was struggling to find cues to improve performance, as the positioning was so good from players. The team and their coach loved the very technical training style, but all I could focus on was that I was struggling to find areas they could improve, other than technique. Comparatively, a few weeks ago, I pulled one of the NTC teams apart at half time as they had so many structural flaws.

The point I'm going to make is that the SAP training I've done, really improved the quality and intensity of the session in the early stages, then the KNVB/ FFA Advanced Coaching structure took over.
The SAP , even though designed for younger players, was an invaluable tool in making a session for seniors a success, in their terms. In mine it was a failure.#-o Not many of us have had access to the SAP training in the Advanced Coaching courses.






Edited by Decentric: 5/2/2013 08:55:07 PM

so D, can you put together themed sessions for all 4 sap areas, 1v1 ,first touch , striking the ball, running wiv the ball ?
was the questioning in the form guided discovery or strait question and answer ?
How many times do you intervene in a session ?

this is my first post on the performance pages. i just wanna say i have enjoyed reading all your training posts decentric. I have only taken an interest in football since 2006 and have found your information very informative.

Decentric, some really thoughtful comments here and a good discussion. Well done.

Well Done Decentric very informative as always mate.
Keep it up :)

Yes.

I was in a pilot group in the middle of the year with the state SAP trainer.

I am also used to doing it for the KNVB pro forma.

This is a massive component of the C Licence. It was probably the main part of the course.

Other guys on here like Gregory Parker, Steelinho and Andy J. would have done this too, and, now regularly with the teams they coach.


This type of methodology is also part of a professional teacher's job description. Instead of football one has to construct reading, writing and maths programs. Often individualised too.

Actually guided discovery is the term used by FFA for what I call heuristic or constructivist in education.

All the questioning is Guided Discovery in the NC. It forces players to think for themselves.

Even though he has been criticised for mediocre performances as a results based coach, Kelly Cross, along with Alistair Edwards, second in the FFA hierarchy after Han Berger, is supposedly a trained teacher. He and Rob Sherman have put together a lot of the modules for the FFA Licence and certificate system.

I have a pretty high critical level as a trained teacher for educational practices. Cross and Sherman have done an excellent job. Cross has also been inculcated with the new eclectic European methodology that underpins the National Curriculum. Sherman was the former Welsh Technical Director and Canadian Technical Director, I think. He took some sessions in the C lIcence and was also a good operator.

At the last state conference, the state TD said that FFA realise that the Community Coaching courses - Grass Roots, Junior Licence, Youth Licence and Senior Licence, could be better.

Interesting he said this, because I did the Grass Roots last year. I thought it was excellent, although we have one of the best instructors in the country taking it. I thought the Grass Roots last year was better than the FFA Youth Licence I did with David Abela in 2007.

The FFA licences will have new names. I cannot remember what the names are - I don't have access to my state conference notes ATM.

Yes, my children were coached by the State's Skillaroo coach before he became skillaroo coach and I am goo friends with a SAP coach.

While I appreciate the qualities of the program and its role in developing a players skill set, I'm probably far too Zen or very Buddha.

I want to know from where and why a Ronaldihnio and players like him comes from.
Where and why do players like Messi appear.

They don't have SAP so what is it?

The book the Talent Code says Futsal.
Others tell me Street Football.

Why is it that tenth rate, yes tenth rate brazilians that come to our country have better skill sets than any of our boys? And from this general playing pool comes the brilliant players we love and admire.

Why did players like Rojas and Rogic who missed the pathways have the technical ability far superior to players who have come through and comming through the pathways? And they both had strong futsal backgrounds.

These are the questions that haunt me, as I said the SAP program is very good but will an Australian Messi be spawned from it?

Or would we have a better chance in the dusty roads of ALice Springs and finding an Aboriginal child from a settlement to be the equal of a Messi?

Edited by Arthur: 5/2/2013 11:29:23 PM

That is a good question.

It is also something I'm worried about for the C Licence practical assessment. It depends on the responses to the team task in Positioning Games Game training set out to remedy the most pressing problem identified in their last match.

In a match played by the NTC a few weeks ago I had enough material to pull them apart. This was part of doing the C Licence. I did pull them apart by identifying the distancing between and within the defensive lines, was breaking down team structure, etc, etc, saying that my job was to improve their performance in the second half, but, that there were many positive aspects to their team.

There weren't really, but we are coached to provide optimism for players to to win the game in the second half. The appraisal by the instructor was that it was a very technical analysis. To me it was typically KNVB. So , to answer your question Dirk, I could have found a lot of flaws. If it had been Game Training on the pitch I would have made many stops.

Last night with the state league club senior women's team, because the words and pictures for kinaestehtic learning from the KNVB , and, the kinaesthetic practices adopted by the women's state NTC coach on a larger scale from the C licence, the players seemed to understand their roles and player team functions very well.

For the players without the ball in Ball Possession by the team the instructions were:

Open passing lanes by?

Creating angular runs to make the diamond shape.

Showing for the ball with both hands gesticulating ( like Jason Culina does often).

Pointing to a space where the player wanted the ball delivered.

Calling for the ball.

Make eye contact with player on ball.


The player with the ball:

Played to feet of the target player.

Make eye contact with target.

Look for a player in space.

With first touch take the ball away from opponent.

With first touch can you play forward.

Instruct 'turn', if no opposing player was near the team-mate receiving the ball. ( I deliberately constructed a SAP passing/running with the ball/first touch exercise to coach this point earlier in the session in the designated Warm up, phase 1 of four phase practice).

If the intended target was closed down instruct " man on". This meant a bounce pass which was also incorporated into the Warm Up (Passing Practice) exercise in stage 1 of the session.

Another team task was for the players in each line to coach the players in the more advanced line. This is exemplified in the the keeper positioing the back four, and the back four ( particularly one CB) positioning the midfield duo.



Now players were doing all this pretty well, even though most had inadequate technique. However, I would have failed my C Licence test.#-o We are supposed to start Game Training quickly with a minimum of instruction. Because the players listened well, I didn't stop the game much, Dirk. Having said that I was worried I wasn't finding flaws.

Before they started Phase 3 of the sessions, Game Training, they also had cones marked in a mini- space showing them how the defence was playing a 1-4-2 as the defence and mifield lines of the 1-4-3-3 with the attacking mifidifeld triangle. The attack and focus team was playing a 1-3-3 as the CB, the midfield and attacking lines of the 1-4-3-3.

This was all explained at the beginning, but I should stop periodically after observing according to my C Licence. Individual players had individual positional and body shape faults. I spoke to them individually, but I'm not sure whether I am supposed to stop the whole team. I have to follow up with my instructor.


If I'm not coaching the rep team I now coach, I will periodically revisit this team to work on their structure and for them to really jam up and frustrate better teams through compact defence and organisation in the defensive transition and BPO ( ball possession by the opposition).

The V League team thought it was a resounding success, but I think I would have failed the C Licence prac. I mixed up my cues for:

Team task ( I'm not too bad with this).

Player actions.

Player cues.

I also gave too many instructions at once in response to players, who apart from former state NTC or Institute players in the team, had not had this very technical coaching before.

I also have trouble differentiating player actions and player cues.#-o I gave them, but had trouble identifying what was what.


The state SAP trainer is brilliant with player cues and actions. Yet he is one of the lowest in the state FFA coaching hierarchy and does a lot of the heavy lifting and tough coaching work .

The state TD is good too, as are the two NTC coaches - one who is the assistant Australian under 20 assistant coach to Alistair Edwards.

They've certainly helped me to become a better coach. They are augmenting what I learnt from the outstanding KNVB instructors, Ad Derkson and Arie Schans.

As for the number of interventions per session in Positioning and Game Training, I can't answer that ATM, Dirk.

Edited by Decentric: 5/2/2013 11:44:36 PM

Good point.

Brazil has a population of about 180 million.

They have had millions of kids playing street football in the favelas. However, Brazil is rapidly becoming more affluent, so there may be a lot less kids playing street football. This could effect their playing resources.

The same issue arises in Europe. Far fewer players play street football anymore.

That is why the club academies are assuming more importance in Europe.

The main hope in Australia is the school playground.

Rogic also had a lot of formal Coerver coaching, according to Australian Coerver head, Jason Lanscar.

Jason considers him as the exemplary graduate of Coerver. Terry Antonis is another, according to Jason, as is Harry Kewell and Steven Lustica.

If one plays futsal, does Coerver, or and is lucky enough to be in the SAP, things should improve.

Even a lot of our better players are one footed, from not having coaching to force the improvement their non-preferred foot.

Probably not.

Then again he is one of the best players of all time.

If we can try and replicate the Dutch, a country of similar population, we will be doing well.

Agreed.

I should add that many of our youngsters at my club have had extended trials overseas.

Some have had all their expenses paid to go over, some have paid to go.

Some of the Clubs

Reading
Manchester City
Chelsea
Bury
Stade Rennes
Barcelona (40 players went to for two weeks training)
Corinella (smaller club in Barcelona with strong juniors)
Kaiserslautern
Panathinaikos

Some general comments

The lower the Club the bigger and more athletic the kids, for example Reading has 13yo boys who are nearly 6ft. while Chelsea U13's where smaller and more skillful.

Manchester City had highly skilled players but their match play philosophy was about foot speed, ball speed and long balls bypassing the midfield.

There was not much difference in training juniors done in Europe that we are not already doing here. Except they have more players to chose from and they live in a football enviroment.

We have come to the conclusion that some one (from our club) has to go to Argentina and Brazil to see first hand what they do with training juniors to learn if there is something new or different.

Edited by Arthur: 6/2/2013 12:00:51 PM

In terms of intervention, it's a tricky one to answer with real accuracy. There are a lot of variables.

One thing to note: You will not fix a problem 100% in a single session.

I found my best practice to be allowing them to run through the motions a couple of times before worrying about any freezing of the play/intervention. This gives you time to assess their understanding of your (or the FFA's) vision and even see errors from another angle. The previous game could have been a one-off where that particular problem arose or you may find other things that need to be improved that weren't as clear before.

Let them run through the situation as much as possible. Let them score goals, achieve things. The only real need to stop things is when the problem is quite clear to see. A lot of this will also depend on what kind of "football problem" you're trying to coach, though.

Again, it's not easy - for these reasons and more - to say how much intervention is needed. Perhaps, if you're intervening too much, it means they're not actually clear about what you're aiming to achieve. You may need to reassess how you've presented your vision, your session or your instructions. Perhaps they're not physically up to it (if, for instance, you're asking a group of 14-year-olds to move the ball quickly and they can't kick the ball long/fast enough to achieve this).

If you stop them to fix a problem, let it run again and see what they've learnt. If you're seeing an improvement, move on. That's probably the best and simplest advice I could give. If you keep picking at the same problem (as mentioned before), players will lose interest quickly. They won't get to actually play football. And that's how they learn the most.

The problem I had the other night, was the players did things too well. I was finding it difficult to intervene at all, because the focus team was achieving its objective much more easily than I thought possible.

The KNVB practice of demonstrating the session with cones (demonstrating the shape or formation) in an area about 2 metres by 2metres, followed by setting out the bibs in the same shape on the big pitch for the players to pick up and maintain the position they started relative to the rest of the team shape, was very successful. This was even for the defensive team who were not the target group.

I didn't have another player to increase pressure on the focus team. It was a 7v6, with the seven doing very well. I probably could have added, "How could you move the ball more quickly?"

Hoping to get an answer of, "One touch football where possible."

The state TD came up with another one, "Can we create a shot on goal within 10 seconds?"

[quote=Decentric
Good point.

Brazil has a population of about 180 million.

They have had millions of kids playing street football in the favelas. However, Brazil is rapidly becoming more affluent, so there may be a lot less kids playing street football. This could effect their playing resources.

The same issue arises in Europe. Far fewer players play street football anymore.

That is why the club academies are assuming more importance in Europe.

The main hope in Australia is the school playground.[/quote]

Learning through play is often undervalued in the structured coaching world.
Structured coaching is good when it supplements unstructured football but not when it is the only option to play football..
Also with 'street football' you get a mix of ages which i feel develops players better than the strcutured way of sticking players in age groups.

in your assessment , make sure you intervene when you see a fault,
as for a mormal session you will see loads of faults but dont always jump in unless there is a repitition of a fault.

The results of the SAP, that I'm seeing in the rep squad, are simply extraordinary.

The players who have come through the SAP have incredible Insight (game sense), compared to the players who have not had access to the program.

It is not the individual technique that is so marked, but the decisions the players make. Their runs off the ball, just before team-mates receive it, creating angled passing lanes, the ability to keep team shape all helps players around them play better football. The ability to read the game beforehand, a few seconds before the game unfolds, is really good too.

Sometimes some club players have been coached by players with pro backgrounds, but haven't had a high level of coach education.

I know our SAP instructor is very good. I'm not sure if all SAP instructors are of this calibre, but once the SAP program gets into clubs, at this level of coaching, things will be fantastic in Australia.

There is an assumption that coaches in FFA Advanced Coaches have a comprehensive understanding of the technical development of footballers. I think this may be a problem. To me, the SAP course, should be mandatory for all coaches, even for senior coaches.

To keep extending the former SAP players with this prior level of high quality coaching is a challenge on my part. Technically, I try to impart something at every session, that is new for all players. The structure of my sessions is usually sound, but like most coaches, the player actions and coaching cue instruction needs to improve.

Luckily, we have the local SAP trainer to observe on a regular basis, who coaches at all levels of football to improve my coaching of game sense. We also have the Australian under 20 coach, to observe regularly who is very good with the elite of the elite.

Thanks.

This message has been a recurring one.

There are now some SAP coaches who frequent this forum.

It varies from region to region about their regular roster games.

It looks like now the SAP and Skilleroos will play regular practice games against our under 14 rep team. We both need games. This is the ideal scenario, because both the SAP /Skilleroos coach and I will be diagnosing faults in our teams.

The results are unimportant, but the the way the teams play is paramount.

Club teams want to play teams like ours with the express purpose of beating FFA rep teams. Then there will be suggestions our programs are failing if we lose.

Edited by Decentric: 18/3/2013 11:07:37 PM

Manyof the SAP programs are failing because the correct kids are not placed in them to start with and then after a few years of training they still can't win matches because they still aren't good enough.Many of them still don't have a football brain.

A few players always miss put for one reason or another - not identified by coaches, parents or coaches not supportive of SAP, finances, distance, level of commitment, other conflicting programs etc etc.

However the majority of the right players are there and in time, unless the program changes as has happened in the past, then you will start to see 95-99% of the correct kids in the program.