Passing technique dilemma


Passing technique dilemma

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Decentric
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om1iQUZ-pfg&feature=related


I have a dilemma with some players.

The above exercise, demonstrated by Barca head coach, Tito Vilanova, I have found to be a useful training tool, like many on here. This is for first touch and accurate passing involving both feet.

I thought all players in a squad I'm coaching would do this easily. Yet some have shown up some awful body shape deficiencies and really struggle with this technique, in isolation, as shown in the video. Nevertheless, most of these guys are effective at passing the ball when playing under pressure in games.

Conventional Skills Acquisition Program doctrine is that don't change something that works efficiently. However, I feel like some players may be held back later on. I'm concerned that in terms of having deficient technique, it could limit their options.

I also notice in the the video, that one of the Barcelona players in particular, doesn't put his opposite arm across the body from the foot he is passing with. His body shape is sound though.

At a recent SAP course, some of us asked the instructor to demonstrate copybook striking the ball practice, particularly for gaining distance. The position of the arm opposite the striking foot was new to all the participating coaches, bar one.

We now have a number of high level rep and club coaches who view 442 Performance. I just wonder their thoughts, as well as any others, on this matter.

I've coached karate and been the recipent of high level tennis coaching. Explicit technique development is paramount in these sports.
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I wouldn't worry too much about this, decentric. If they can pass OK under match conditions despite their "body shape defficiencies", then surely that is good.

Surely it is all about how they actually play, and not how they look in show-piece little training excercises?

Good players will always find their way too the top. Others will surely find a level to play where they can get enjoyment and pleasure out of the game, without being criticised by over-pedantic coaches for trivial things!

Edited by localstar: 7/3/2013 10:11:53 AM
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That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.
For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc

I also wouldnt worry too much about body shape problems as long as they can do it. I would also think about the different ways of learning - V(ISUAL) A(UDIO) R(EAD/WRITE) K(INEASTHETIC). Make the player identify his own problem and work out ways to fix it.
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Brew wrote:
That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.
For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc

I also wouldnt worry too much about body shape problems as long as they can do it. I would also think about the different ways of learning - V(ISUAL) A(UDIO) R(EAD/WRITE) K(INEASTHETIC). Make the player identify his own problem and work out ways to fix it.


Thanks,decentric, I mean brew... that certainly clarified it for me:lol:
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localstar wrote:
Brew wrote:
That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.
For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc

I also wouldnt worry too much about body shape problems as long as they can do it. I would also think about the different ways of learning - V(ISUAL) A(UDIO) R(EAD/WRITE) K(INEASTHETIC). Make the player identify his own problem and work out ways to fix it.


Thanks,decentric, I mean brew... that certainly clarified it for me:lol:



If you have a look at Brew's posts, he has much greater football knowledge than me. He looks like he is a lot further down the coaching pathway. I ask him questions, seeking more football knowledge in methodology, and he answers them.

I thought a person of your significant former playing credentials would be able to see the knowledge base differentiating Brew's posts and mine.:-k
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Brew wrote:

For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc


This sounds like a good idea.

Can you expand on this?

I have thought of doing it with the bouncers outside the edge of the grid in the Turning Into Space exercise from Chelsea Academy on this page.

I use the Barca Academy Directional Control in the first stage of training, Warm Up. The other night, a hot one, the players did it after some running with the ball, dribbling, 1v1 warm up exercises in a grid where they had to dribble through cones. It was a drill that Norm Boardman took on the road in his SAP tour of Australia last year.

The players were quite puffed out. The isolated technique of Directional Control seemed okay then.
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Brew wrote:
That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.


I intend to suggest this as one of a number of homework exercises.
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Decentric wrote:
localstar wrote:
Brew wrote:
That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.
For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc

I also wouldnt worry too much about body shape problems as long as they can do it. I would also think about the different ways of learning - V(ISUAL) A(UDIO) R(EAD/WRITE) K(INEASTHETIC). Make the player identify his own problem and work out ways to fix it.


Thanks,decentric, I mean brew... that certainly clarified it for me:lol:



If you have a look at Brew's posts, he has much greater football knowledge than me. He looks like he is a lot further down the coaching pathway. I ask him questions, seeking more football knowledge in methodology, and he answers them.

I thought a person of your significant former playing credentials would be able to see the knowledge base differentiating Brew's posts and mine.:-k


Can't brew tell me that himself...? Or doesn't he do casual conversations?:lol:
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@Decentric - I would take that drill a little further by adding in passive defenders (too often players just go through the motion in no contest situation), which would then in turn but some pressure on passer and receiver. Then the additional coaching points would be
a) Passing the ball to the receiver at the defenders furthest point, too often once a player has made a little space off their defender, the incoming ball is played into a 50/50 situation.
b) Receiver to create that 1-2 yds of space off their defender at a 45.

I would flip that triangle over to have starting position on back orange moving forward diagonally to receive.
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Can you detail which bit they are struggling , the first touch or the subsequent pass.
If they are struggling with the body shape on the first touch then what about a three player triangular one touch passing drill at close quarters.

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nickk wrote:
Can you detail which bit they are struggling , the first touch or the subsequent pass.
If they are struggling with the body shape on the first touch then what about a three player triangular one touch passing drill at close quarters.


Good to see you posting her, Nickk.:)

Good point.

It is often the combination of the two.

With this exercise it is the left receive, right pass, or, the right receive, left pass.

If they are particularly one footed, for example right, they often receive adequately with the right, but struggle to pass with their left. On the other side they may struggle to receive with their left, but can pass reasonably with their right. However, the poor left touch doesn't set the right foot pass up that well.

I use three player triangular exercises for one and two touch passing. The Dutch passing square is also quite good for this.

However, I believe the Directional Control is a fundamental skill. A player makes many, many touches whilst performing it for five minutes.
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coachzone wrote:
@Decentric - I would take that drill a little further by adding in passive defenders (too often players just go through the motion in no contest situation), which would then in turn but some pressure on passer and receiver. Then the additional coaching points would be
a) Passing the ball to the receiver at the defenders furthest point, too often once a player has made a little space off their defender, the incoming ball is played into a 50/50 situation.



We do this in the Positioning Games, 2nd phase of four phase training - the rondos, 3v1, 4v2 and 5v3(or2). In all these the possession team assumes the shape of a triangle, a diamond or a diamond with a dot.

I can send you these via email, if you like. The Power Point presentation from FFA shows them quite well. I use them all the time with all ages. I have FFA authorisation to email them, but I cannot put them up for public viewing.

The Directional Control is done in the Warm Up.



There is a marked difference between KNVB practice and FFA NC practice. New 442 member, Possession Football, can also attest to this.

KNVB believes to acquire technique, do it slowly, building up the speed of the technique as it becomes sounder.

FFA NC emphatically states make everything realistic. Everything, should be performed at match speed.

In terms of technique acquisition, I strongly lean towards the KNVB approach. Probably because it leans towards training I have done previously in karate, tennis and music.
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Decentric wrote:
nickk wrote:
Can you detail which bit they are struggling , the first touch or the subsequent pass.
If they are struggling with the body shape on the first touch then what about a three player triangular one touch passing drill at close quarters.


Good to see you posting her, Nickk.:)

Good point.

It is often the combination of the two.

With this exercise it is the left receive, right pass, or, the right receive, left pass.

If they are particularly one footed, for example right, they often receive adequately with the right, but struggle to pass with their left. On the other side they may struggle to receive with their left, but can pass reasonably with their right. However, the poor left touch doesn't set the right foot pass up that well.

I use three player triangular exercises for one and two touch passing. The Dutch passing square is also quite good for this.

However, I believe the Directional Control is a fundamental skill. A player makes many, many touches whilst performing it for five minutes.


If they have been told to use the opposite foot to receive it then they will never be able to practice what would be the most effective combination for players that are really one footed. If they are using the opposite foot i don;t think worrying about their body shape will do much, maybe do some exercises where they pass and receive using their weak foot.
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Decentric wrote:
nickk wrote:
Can you detail which bit they are struggling , the first touch or the subsequent pass.
If they are struggling with the body shape on the first touch then what about a three player triangular one touch passing drill at close quarters.


Good to see you posting her, Nickk.:)

Good point.

It is often the combination of the two.

With this exercise it is the left receive, right pass, or, the right receive, left pass.

If they are particularly one footed, for example right, they often receive adequately with the right, but struggle to pass with their left. On the other side they may struggle to receive with their left, but can pass reasonably with their right. However, the poor left touch doesn't set the right foot pass up that well.

I use three player triangular exercises for one and two touch passing. The Dutch passing square is also quite good for this.

However, I believe the Directional Control is a fundamental skill. A player makes many, many touches whilst performing it for five minutes.


If they have been told to use the opposite foot to receive it then they will never be able to practice what would be the most effective combination for players that are really one footed. If they are using the opposite foot i don;t think worrying about their body shape will do much, maybe do some exercises where they pass and receive using their weak foot.
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localstar wrote:
Brew wrote:
That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.
For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc

I also wouldnt worry too much about body shape problems as long as they can do it. I would also think about the different ways of learning - V(ISUAL) A(UDIO) R(EAD/WRITE) K(INEASTHETIC). Make the player identify his own problem and work out ways to fix it.


Thanks,decentric, I mean brew... that certainly clarified it for me:lol:


Localstar - you might spend all your free time surfing internet forums, but I certainly dont.
Maybe if you actually get out there and coach, you might understand things a bit better.
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Brew wrote:
localstar wrote:
Brew wrote:
That Barcelona passing drill is a good pre warm up drill, i.e. something that players can do before we start training, like juggling or rondos. It can also be combined with dynamic stretches after passing the ball.
HIt is also a good homework drill that players can do with a brother/parent.
For training though it would be good if we can combine the elements of the drill into an SSG, or at least add some defenders and different changes of direction. An example would be make your target players receive the ball through the three cones like in the drill ect etc

I also wouldnt worry too much about body shape problems as long as they can do it. I would also think about the different ways of learning - V(ISUAL) A(UDIO) R(EAD/WRITE) K(INEASTHETIC). Make the player identify his own problem and work out ways to fix it.


Thanks,decentric, I mean brew... that certainly clarified it for me:lol:


Localstar - you might spend all your free time surfing internet forums, but I certainly dont.
Maybe if you actually get out there and coach, you might understand things a bit better.


Thanks, decentric, for your usual patronising, condescending response. You certainly know how to bring the personal touch into casual football chit chat!

Maybe one day you might actually come to realise that involvement with football is actually about fellowship and shared passion with people; not about getting on your high horse at the drop of a hat, and looking down on everyone who doesn't agree with you..=d>
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Im not sure what your issue is localstar - but anyone with brains can see there is a difference between 2 people. Maybe you have multis, I dont.
I agree football is about a shared passion with other coaches and sharing information. I have coached and played in over 5 countries, and have players that I have coached playing in the NYL and W League, as well as being involved in football full-time for the past 8 years, so I know all about passion and fellowship. Maybe get your facts straight before pointing fingers.

Edited by brew: 8/3/2013 04:51:22 PM
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Brew wrote:
Im not sure what your issue is localstar - but anyone with brains can see there is a difference between 2 people. Maybe you have multis, I dont.
I agree football is about a shared passion with other coaches and sharing information. I have coached and played in over 5 countries, and have players that I have coached playing in the NYL and W League, as well as being involved in football full-time for the past 8 years, so I know all about passion and fellowship. Maybe get your facts straight before pointing fingers.

Edited by brew: 8/3/2013 04:51:22 PM


Decentric... there is only one person in the world who combines obsession with blinding people with obscure coaching gobbledegook, with personal attacks on people... and that is you. As you know, I have never made a personal attack on you... I've only addressed stuff you have written.

"Football is about a shared passion with other coaches"?? Fair enough, but 99% of people who use internet football chat forums, including this one, are not interested in the minutiae of coaching drills and tactical analysis. How you have conned 442 into setting up your own private coaching forum, is one of the great mysteries of life:lol: Another mystery is how you progressed from being someone with little previous exposure to the game, to an (allegedly) top level coach, without passing through any intermediary stage of keen player, passionate fan etc etc.

I don't think you have a clue what football passion is all about. Your approach to football actually drains all enjoyment from it....
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localstar wrote:
Brew wrote:
Im not sure what your issue is localstar - but anyone with brains can see there is a difference between 2 people. Maybe you have multis, I dont.
I agree football is about a shared passion with other coaches and sharing information. I have coached and played in over 5 countries, and have players that I have coached playing in the NYL and W League, as well as being involved in football full-time for the past 8 years, so I know all about passion and fellowship. Maybe get your facts straight before pointing fingers.

Edited by brew: 8/3/2013 04:51:22 PM


Decentric... there is only one person in the world who combines obsession with blinding people with obscure coaching gobbledegook, with personal attacks on people... and that is you. As you know, I have never made a personal attack on you... I've only addressed stuff you have written.

"Football is about a shared passion with other coaches"?? Fair enough, but 99% of people who use internet football chat forums, including this one, are not interested in the minutiae of coaching drills and tactical analysis. How you have conned 442 into setting up your own private coaching forum, is one of the great mysteries of life:lol: Another mystery is how you progressed from being someone with little previous exposure to the game, to an (allegedly) top level coach, without passing through any intermediary stage of keen player, passionate fan etc etc.

I don't think you have a clue what football passion is all about. Your approach to football actually drains all enjoyment from it....



Localstar, Brew is not me.](*,)

Check your PM.

His contributions are very welcome and provide this forum with a greater knowledge base that I certainly don't have. I cannot believe you can't see the difference.
The nomenclature Brew uses is also used by other posters on here who have done recent FFA Advanced Coaching courses. It is not gobbledygook, but contemporaneous football vernacular. It is used everywhere in Australian football circles these days, certainly in HAL , W League state leagues and elite youth programs. Contemporary football may have passed you by. It should be apparent that you need to update your understanding of football, like the rest of us are doing.

This is a site where the posters who post here are primarily interested in performance, with a large percentage of active coaches. This is not so much a 'chat room' per se.

As for your diatribe supposedly directed at me, I accept your apology.:lol:










Edited by Decentric: 8/3/2013 11:38:08 PM
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Brew wrote:

I agree football is about a shared passion with other coaches and sharing information. I have coached and played in over 5 countries, and have players that I have coached playing in the NYL and W League, as well as being involved in football full-time for the past 8 years, so I know all about passion and fellowship. Maybe get your facts straight before pointing fingers.

Edited by brew: 8/3/2013 04:51:22 PM


Localstar, I have never listed these as my achievements.

I haven't had a full time job in football.

I have not coached players in the NYL or the W League.

I have not coached and played in five countries.

My greatest achievement is drinking beer in 25 countries, which I have just done at a social occasion tonight.:lol:



Edited by Decentric: 8/3/2013 11:44:18 PM
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localstar wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about this, decentric. If they can pass OK under match conditions despite their "body shape defficiencies", then surely that is good.

Surely it is all about how they actually play, and not how they look in show-piece little training excercises?

Good players will always find their way too the top. Others will surely find a level to play where they can get enjoyment and pleasure out of the game, without being criticised by over-pedantic coaches for trivial things!

Edited by localstar: 7/3/2013 10:11:53 AM


Fair comment.

There may be some talented players, who if I don't intervene now, may be unable to pass over range because of faulty technique, if, they want to pursue a career in football.

You also seem to think that technical coaching and enjoyment are mutually exclusive. I've found highly technical football sessions are enjoyable for most players, apart from some social players who don't want to work on their game. Highly technical football involves a lot of playing football, certainly as advocated by the KNVB.
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nickk wrote:


If they have been told to use the opposite foot to receive it then they will never be able to practice what would be the most effective combination for players that are really one footed.
If they are using the opposite foot i don;t think worrying about their body shape will do much, maybe do some exercises where they pass and receive using their weak foot.


I know sometimes the very elite of the elite can sometimes get away from being one footed, but most pro players cannot. A lot more of the contemporary drills force players to develop their weakest foot.

This was an issue that Pim Verbeek identified as a weakness in Australian players compared to Korea and Japan.

I'm not sure whether this is in the FFA NC, but I see development of the weaker foot as being integral in a player's development.
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Decentric wrote:
nickk wrote:


If they have been told to use the opposite foot to receive it then they will never be able to practice what would be the most effective combination for players that are really one footed.
If they are using the opposite foot i don;t think worrying about their body shape will do much, maybe do some exercises where they pass and receive using their weak foot.


I know sometimes the very elite of the elite can sometimes get away from being one footed, but most pro players cannot. A lot more of the contemporary drills force players to develop their weakest foot.

This was an issue that Pim Verbeek identified as a weakness in Australian players compared to Korea and Japan.

I'm not sure whether this is in the FFA NC, but I see development of the weaker foot as being integral in a player's development.


2 footed exercises ,Its in the SAP , a course i believe you have attended

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

GO


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