What's your thoughts?

Bush's War, Streaming available at PBS Frotnline pgae
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Edited by Viper 0: 21/3/2013 07:49:04 午前

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911 led the dramatic change in US foreign policy toward middle east.
Procedures and devised cause of the war were entirely wrong.

Condi was there all along and silently pushing for the war as many renowned sholars of internaitonal politics did. Many are still looking at WMD. She was looking at Arab Spring which will lessen the likelifood of super terrorism in future.

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America had been planning to do something about Iraq long before 9/11 even occoured. It's no secret that George Bush Jn. wanted to finish his fathers work in stopping Sadaam Hussein. He wanted U.S forces to follow Iraqi forces out of Kuwait and into Iraq and finish of Hussein back in the 90s. Afghanistan was unplanned.

America never really had planned, financed or had the appropiate forces to fight two wars on two front within such a short time-frame.

Hence the enormous financial debt that america find themselves in from enormous defence spending

What is or was the final figure that the us have plundered Into this messed up war?

You can't really have a "final figure" When they still have soldiers on deployment.

All foreign combat troops left Iraq in 2011.



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-12-17/iraq-us-troops/52032854/1?csp=ip



The Deulfer report said that Iraq had long abandoned its WMD program and was not actively trying to create any, but it goes on to say he had hoped to have UN sanctions lifted and restart the WMD program, but this is not based on solid evidence and many US politicians will try and use that part as justification of the war. In an interview on CNN and Paul Wolfowitz who is the former sectary of defence says that instead of having a war in 2003 it would of been war in 2005 or 2007.

Transscript of Interview http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1303/17/fzgps.01.html

On the other side, US was fearful of terrorists gaining WMDs from Iraq, and Iraq played a cat and mouse game with UN inspectors which raised suspicions.

I think its safe to say that the whole situation could of been handed very very differently.



Edited by aussie4ever4: 21/3/2013 03:56:17 PM

Like I said earlier, America wanted to deal with Iraq LONG BEFORE 9/11. They were planning a major military conflict with Iraq well before 2003, let alone 2001. The whole WoMD debarcle was just one tiny faction - yet a major excuse they pulled for the public - of their reasons for wanting to go into Iraq.

Bill Clinton was satisfied with keeping heavy sanctions and the no-fly-zone over Iraqi skies following the 1991 Gulf War, George Bush was a heavy critic of the US and coalition countries pulling out in 1991, and stopping at the border once Iraqi forces had left Kuwait. George Bush snr. was going to follow Iraqi forces but heavy pressure from the UN and NATO stopped him. George Bush jnr. was very supportive of his father going after Hussein. The war in Iraq would have happened earlier, if it not had been for 9/11. You probably seen it occur 12 months earlier than it did.

I was under the impression they still have military deployment in Iraq doing re-construction work.

I'm pretty sure there's no U.S combat troops left in the country, except for a small handful of crack Navy Seals or some other equivilent guarding diplomats, embassies, etc.

I'm not surprised by planning beforehand, saddam played a very dangerous game with u.n inspectors and this was going on as soon as the first gulf war ended, US had threatened military action long before the Iraq war.

Your above comment is correct, the U.S led war ended in 2011, now it is close to a civil war really.

Iraq has been basically in a state of civil war since Hussein was killed. The irony of the whole situation there at the moment is that despite ruling with an Iron fist, much similar as to how Basar al-Assad has ruled in Syria, he kept the peace between the Sunni and Shiite Muslims. The moment he fell and the whole Baath party was disbanded, the whole country went nuts. Since then it's basically been one big free for all. America basically only pulled out when they realized that they being in the country was not going to affect the situation in the slightest. All it served was another enemy both sides could attack.

America realized that the 'democratically elected' government was going to bring as much stability as a drunk unicyclist. They basically didn't just kick the hornets nest, they knocked it down with a baseball bat and ripped it apart with their bare hands, and went away with welts all over their hands and face.

A couple of nights ago, there was another major bombing in Baghdad, ~50 killed, hundreds injured. But Iraq's a funny situation - the United States, and the Western World don't want to hear let alone have a bar of the situation over there because they caused it - it's like the whole reverse aparthied that's going on in South Africa and has been going on since the 90s.

This is why the conflict in Syria at the moment is extremely interesting at the moment from a political point of view. I guarenteed that if Basaar Al-Assad is defeated, I'm fairly sure that we're going to see an Iraq 2.0 situation occur.

You're seeing bits and pieces of it here and there in Libya at the moment - the West got involved removed Gadaffi Duck, and now the situation over there is hanging on a knife piece. Yet, the British, French, and Americans don't want anything to do with it, because they don't want a repeat of Iraq. That's why they didn't send in combat troops to Libya, and they won't send in combat troops to Syria.

The French have gotten involved in Mali - as a succession to the events in Libya, but that's on a much smaller scale than Libya, Syria and Iraq. The French believe if they can nip Mali in the bud, that might help stop the stem waves that have rippled from the Libya conflict - esentially you wouldn't have the situation in Mali, if Libya had never been meddled with. All the Islamists in Libya are holding weapons that the West gave them to defeat Mali. It's a huge double-edged sword that America and the West don't seem to learn from. You give these people weapons to defeat YOUR enemy - they're not going to exactly give them back and be like 'thanks for the rent of this M-16, don't need it now'.

I remember leaving work early to protest against Howard's intention to send Australian soldiers to participate. It was a lie then, and a lie now. Not detracting from the professionalism of our armed forces, but Australia had no business in getting involved.

Blame the Pollies, not the troops.

I agree with you, I don't think sending troops into Iraq was the right descision. Afghanistan is a completely differant kettle of fish.

The first 5 or so years of the 21st century were very interesting (and the rest have been too) in terms of political issues.

Interesting enough ,America has form on going to war to end up with eggs on their faces . The whole of south America was the u.s playing field . They got rid of a democratically elected official because he wouldn't sell them bananas on a discount to them . They put a pasty in and he ended up a complete psychopath .

Three words gentlemen: military industrial complex.

This. Still. Costs. Them. Money.

Everything costs money. I mean, you really want to save, may as well just disband the military altogether...but yeah, not gonna happen.

Point is, you can't count the 'final figure' of the US military engagement in Iraq if you haven't completed spending money there.

He asked what was the figure on the war, the war ended in 2011.

Just because their military engagement is over doesn't meant hey're not still paying for the war.

WMD in Iraq was a cause of the war fabricated for public relations.
That is why invasion came in first in the administration prior to concrete evidences of WMD in Iraq.
They all were looking for the evidences after deciding invasion.

So, here is a question, big one.
What was real purpose of the war?

Answer is democratization of Arab, and it was dramatic change in US foreign policy.
911 triggered this US grand strategy to address international system in nuclear age.
You can't just watch terrorist coming out from the countries where autocracy has no ligitimacy to rule and blaming oversea counties for everything.

Here is interview of John L. gaddis.
He has been studying international system in nuclear age probably all his life to this date.
Legend, and a crown-jewel of international society, as are Honda and T.Cahill for our world.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/interviews/gaddis.html

Edited by Viper 0: 23/3/2013 05:10:47 午後

Edited by aussie4ever4: 23/3/2013 05:27:51 PM

The lesson learnt is that The US infiltration of Al Jazerra has beeen more effective than invading countries.

Edited by dirkvanadidas: 23/3/2013 05:23:55 PM

Edited by dirkvanadidas: 23/3/2013 05:24:18 PM

I've watched al jazeera it is like a Muslim foxnews.

Cnn way to go:)

Japanese PM Koizumi.
Probalby only PM who came out from supporting Iraq war without a scratch.
No boots on the ground was a part of the reason though.

Japanese media were and still are stupid enough to present peace and war as opposite concept.
People were not that stupid and were sensing loosening quality of internaional society in nuclear age somehow, perhaps.

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Edited by Viper 0: 23/3/2013 05:36:43 午後

Al-Jzeera makes Fox look teame.

Nah, he makes a fair point. They're pretty much equivalent.

[size=6]BBC, Iraq 10 Years On[/size]

The program was fair than I thought. WMD in Iraq was a lie, but it was made for quite idealistic purpose of the war. BBC broadcaster frawned upon Blair during the interview and that was exactly why Bush administration had to come up with a lie for the war.

Arab spring has been in progress and spreading steadily throughout the region. Civil society in Arab is magic ballet to weaken Islam extrimism. Any society consists of mothers and fathers, 'fanatic' in their love for children.

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Edited by Viper 0: 26/3/2013 05:33:34 午前