paladisious
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FFV wrote: FFV releases documentation for NPLV18.04.2013 Structure and criteria of National Premier Leagues Victoria announced. Football Federation Victoria (FFV) today released the Victorian model of the National Premier Leagues (NPLV) following the Board’s approval on Monday 15 April. The NPLV is a Football Federation Australia (FFA) initiative and will be established in each state by 2014 to provide a national second-tier for Australian senior football and a consistent approach to the development of Australia’s talented junior footballers. The NPLV is in line with FFA’s national framework for player development and coaching education. In fact FFV has gone one step further by being the only Member Federation to include women and girls. This will be the ultimate league for aspiring talented players in Victoria and will cater for players in both metropolitan and regional Victoria, ensuring that location will not be a barrier that prevents players from being a part of the league. FFV CEO, Peter Gome said that Victoria is in a strong position nationally thanks to FFV’s widespread consultation process. “FFV is unique among Member Federations in that we will include women and girls in our NPL structure as the FFV Board considers it important that all players be provided with equal opportunity to reach their full potential in a supportive environment regardless of gender,” he said. “I am confident that with the support of the Victorian football community the NPLV will be a resounding success in 2014. FFV is looking forward to this new and exciting chapter of Victorian football. “FFV’s consultation with stakeholders around Victoria has been the most comprehensive of any Member Federation and on behalf of the team at FFV and the Board we would like to thank our stakeholders for their highly valued feedback during the National Competition Review consultation process.” FFV will support clubs during the application process and will conduct a series of information sessions in May and June throughout the state. FFV will assess applications during August and announce NPLV clubs in early September.
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paladisious
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MFootball wrote:FFV announces NPL structures By Donald Sutherland April 18, 2013
Football Federation Victoria (FFV) confirmed aspects of the new National Premier League Victoria (NPLV) which will replace the current Victorian Premier League model in 2014. The FFV revealed that successful applicants for the new league will be announced in “Early September” of this year, while aspiring clubs need to complete “Expressions of Interest” by the end of next month. Successful clubs will hold their NPLV licences for a three year period should they meet all licence criteria with the Federation revealing that “only at the end of the first 3 year period will FFV look at granting new licences to new applicants.” Victoria will be the only state federation to include elite women’s teams, with successful applicants needing to have an under 13s, 15s, 18s and open women’s team to complement the mandatory under 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 16s, 18s, 21s and open men’s teams. FFV CEO Peter Gome highlighted his excitement about the elite women’s teams, and was confident that the roll-out of the new leagues would be successful. “FFV is unique among Member Federations in that we will include women and girls in our NPL structure as the FFV Board considers it important that all players be provided with equal opportunity to reach their full potential in a supportive environment regardless of gender,” he said. “I am confident that with the support of the Victorian football community the NPLV will be a resounding success in 2014. FFV is looking forward to this new and exciting chapter of Victorian football. “FFV’s consultation with stakeholders around Victoria has been the most comprehensive of any Member Federation and on behalf of the team at FFV and the Board we would like to thank our stakeholders for their highly valued feedback during the National Competition Review consultation process.” FFV will support clubs during the application process and will conduct a series of information sessions in May and June throughout the state.
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paulbagzFC
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CL
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cant wait to see this 3 team comp up and running
any word yet on which grounds are going to be used 40 weeks a year?
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paulbagzFC
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CL wrote:cant wait to see this 3 team comp up and running
any word yet on which grounds are going to be used 40 weeks a year? lol? -PB
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TheSelectFew
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MV v MK at Knights Stadium. Oh fuck yes! All A-league teams should have under 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 16s, 18s, 21s. u12s to u16 should play in zones rather than following the clubs. Only u18 and u21 travel with the team. Edited by theselectfew: 18/4/2013 11:22:13 PM
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TheSelectFew
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krisskrash
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Not a positive thing from what I've seen released.
Why are we saddled with muppets like the FFV who try to make everything a power grab for them while alienating the clubs. Yet FNSW can get it working well and quickly with minimal complaints.
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Atlas
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The FFV have destroyed football in Victoria and this latest plan will kill the game completely. All Victorian clubs should tell them where to go and have nothing what so ever to do with this latest power grabbing scheme. Talk about communism the FFV is simply that.
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switters
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Killing football in Victoria? a slight over reaction.
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paulbagzFC
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Indeed. Care to post insights? -PB
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TheSelectFew
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paulbagzFC wrote:Indeed.
Care to post insights?
-PB Clubs getting fined for the tiniest shit. No promotion of games. Just continuous promotion of themselves. The list goes on. FFV are money hungry.
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jsl1
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In relation to facilities, majority are owned by councils. Will FFV be providing funds to successful clubs or councils to bring the facility to the required standards? If not who will fund these upgrades? FFA? State Government? Federal Government?As it will certainly not be the ratepayers!
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jsl1
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Oh that's right it will be the clubs responsibility to fund these facilities on top of the $500k a year it will take to run the club under this structure!!!!
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paulbagzFC
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Any reason why upgrades are required? Only ask as NPLQ didn't require such spending of money. -PB
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cro69
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Like ive been telling all you so called know it alls from other states. The FFV have remodeled the framework and inserted 75% more bullshit of their own making. I really think a rebel comp in victoria is 1 step closer. Or the bayside federation is about to explode with member clubs. What needs to happen in Victoria FFV elections need to take place and the current board turfed out on their ass. Along with all their mates who a free loading off the clubs profits too. The baracades are about to be put up. Big Big Mess and all leads to FFV. Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season.
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paladisious
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cro69 wrote:Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. I bet you $500 that there will be.
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Glory Recruit
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Are they including the regional teams still?
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krisskrash
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My big issue is this was meant to bring all states in line with each other, but how can that happen if every state is implementing it differently.
Problems with the NPL's implementation in Victoria
- So many juniors will be out of a club due to the one team per age group rule.
- Clubs enter it based on application rather than the merits on their senior team. The FFV doesn't care who enters as long as they get the numbers.
- The details were released last minute, giving clubs barely any form of notice with minimal time to submit an application
- Clubs have to completely change their constitutions to be part of this, one big thing is every parent now becomes a voting member.
-The player point system is a joke, basically forcing every club to become an under 25's club. If this cup happens A-League teams are just going to walk into the finals as they will be the only clubs with out these restrictions.
The suggestions by the clubs should have been listened to. A rule that each VPL team would have to field 3 under 21's players at all times.
-Where are all these facilities going to come from for year long usage? We have a shortage of grounds that satisfy the criteria at every level. So where are they magically going to come from?
-The exclusive sponsorship that frustrates A-League clubs will be coming down to this as well, making it a lot harder for clubs to find a sponsor.
I'm very worried by this whole thing. Doesn't seem like the promising refresh of football at this level that it originally looked like.
Then again what I write here will probably get shut down because I'm an "ethnic bitter".
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Atlas
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All VPL and State one clubs should band together and and transfer lock stock and barrel to the Bayside League or VicSoccer. That will shake them out of their dictatorial attitude they have adopted over the past decade.
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jsl1
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paulbagzFC wrote:Any reason why upgrades are required?
Only ask as NPLQ didn't require such spending of money.
-PB Unless the licenses will only be given to clubs whom are currently in premier league or state 1 whom currently play at facilities that meet FFV class A criteria, then obviously there will be no additional costs required to upgrade facilities. Though if the process is genuine and transparent than current clubs whom may have only B or C class facilities and want to be genuinely considered for a licence will need to also upgrade facilities to meet the A class requirements! So where do these $$ come from??
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TheSelectFew
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cro69 wrote:Like ive been telling all you so called know it alls from other states. The FFV have remodeled the framework and inserted 75% more bullshit of their own making. I really think a rebel comp in victoria is 1 step closer. Or the bayside federation is about to explode with member clubs. What needs to happen in Victoria FFV elections need to take place and the current board turfed out on their ass. Along with all their mates who a free loading off the clubs profits too. The baracades are about to be put up. Big Big Mess and all leads to FFV. Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. It'll go ahead with or without you.
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Joffa
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Atlas wrote:All VPL and State one clubs should band together and and transfer lock stock and barrel to the Bayside League or VicSoccer. That will shake them out of their dictatorial attitude they have adopted over the past decade. No it won't, don't you get it yet, conform or your out.
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cro69
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paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. I bet you $500 that there will be. 2 out of the current 24 vpl and divi 1 clubs keen. As for rest if FFV dont change their model then all will be joining the bayside comp. Still want to offer that bet? il take the bet. You dont know about the goings on behind the scene then, the secret meetings between the powerhouse clubs in victoria.:lol: :lol:
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TheSelectFew
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Joffa wrote:Atlas wrote:All VPL and State one clubs should band together and and transfer lock stock and barrel to the Bayside League or VicSoccer. That will shake them out of their dictatorial attitude they have adopted over the past decade. No it won't, don't you get it yet, conform or your out. You'd like that JoFFA wouldn't you.
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cro69
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Let's have a look at some real world figures for the NPL.
Juniors. 1700 fee per child. Mandatory to have under 12,13,14,15,16,18 boys and under 13, 15 & 18 girls. That's 9 teams (assuming that you will give your youth team - u20's a full scholarship)
Each team will have 15 players minimum. 15 players x 1700 = 25,500 x 9 teams = 229,500. (135 kids) This must cover registrations, apparel, coaching staff, physio, referees, technical director and ground maintenance / utilities.
Apparel per child as follows. For a better brand (not covo, pelada etc.) Training kit x 2 = $80, Playing kit x 2 = $160, Tracksuit = $100, Sprayjacket / Jumper = $60, Club Polo = $50. Apparel alone per child = $450 x 135 kids = $60,750. Leaves you with $168,750 from your registrations. Take away half of the Licence fee for your senior men, women and u20's registration leaves you with $25,000 left that your juniors must pick up. Leaves you with $143,750
Coaching Staff 40 week paid season for the following B Licence TD - 600 per week = $24,000
Under 18 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $600 (300, 200, 100) = $24,000 for the season x 2 for including girls team ($48,000)
Under 16 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $500 (250, 200, 50) = $20,000 for the season
Under 15 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $400 (200, 150, 50) = $16,000 for the season x 2 for including girls team ($32,000)
Under 14 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $400 (200, 150, 50) = $16,000 for the season
Under 13 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $300 (150, 100, 50) = $12,000 for the season x 2 for including girls team ($24,000)
Under 12 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $300 (150, 100, 50) = $12,000 for the season
Combined Coaching costs for 40 week season (training and games) = $176,000
Add in Physiotherapist / Sports Trainer Costs for all teams including wages / products / strapping costs = 3 Physios (One for Senior mens, womens and 20's team / not included in calculation / one for all boys teams and one for all girls teams = 40 weeks x 400 (wages / product expenses) = $16,000 x 2 Physios = $32,000
Add that cost to the coaching costs and you reach a figure of $192,000 Bring in your remaining money from Player registrations and you are already at a deficit of -$48,250
And we haven't even got to referee fees which on a rough estimate will cost about $100 per home game per team on average. 9 teams, 9 home games = $8100 Electricity for 2 grounds with decent floodlighting = $8,500 per year for running them 5 days a week for 3 hours for training x 40 weeks x .22c per KwH. An extra $16,000 or so to tack on to your 48k deficit.
Somehow I don't think that 135 kids, playing in an elite, snob nosed competition are not going to be able to overturn a $65,000 deficit through canteen sales and sponsorship of junior teams for the year. You will lose money.
The coaching fees I've put down are relatively low for the amount of commitment expected / level of 'expertise'
These are the real world figures for running an 'elite' competition. Tell me how much the federation is prepared to pump into clubs to achieve this outcome? Who is the major sponsor of the league which will put in 100k to each club to keep them going?!And this is only juniors.
The AFL puts in upwards of $250k to the TAC Cup clubs to run 2!!!! elite teams. Not that the AFL is a good example to compare to, but it's a local one nonetheless.
Edited by cro69: 23/4/2013 09:42:33 PM
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melbourne_terrace
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so whats actually different to FFV's model compared to say NPL Queensland? I'm not a fan of the points system, it is basically forcing clubs to become junior feeders to A-League rather than being clubs in their own right. Surely if they wanted youth focus they could have just had squad restrictions like a certain amount of players trained by the club required in the squad registration? Edited by melbourne_terrace: 23/4/2013 11:31:57 PM
Viennese Vuck
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SydneyCroatia
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Joffa wrote:Atlas wrote:All VPL and State one clubs should band together and and transfer lock stock and barrel to the Bayside League or VicSoccer. That will shake them out of their dictatorial attitude they have adopted over the past decade. No it won't, don't you get it yet, conform or your out. Great way to run any organisation!
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paladisious
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cro69 wrote:paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. I bet you $500 that there will be. 2 out of the current 24 vpl and divi 1 clubs keen. As for rest if FFV dont change their model then all will be joining the bayside comp. Still want to offer that bet? il take the bet. You dont know about the goings on behind the scene then, the secret meetings between the powerhouse clubs in victoria.:lol: :lol: Fine by me. If 2 or less of this year's VPL clubs apply for the NPL you win, if more than two do, I win. Deal? Edited by paladisious: 24/4/2013 02:23:10 PM
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paulbagzFC
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paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. I bet you $500 that there will be. 2 out of the current 24 vpl and divi 1 clubs keen. As for rest if FFV dont change their model then all will be joining the bayside comp. Still want to offer that bet? il take the bet. You dont know about the goings on behind the scene then, the secret meetings between the powerhouse clubs in victoria.:lol: :lol: Fine by me. If 2 or less of this year's VPL clubs apply for the NPL you win, if more than two do, I win. Deal? Keen. -PB
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Atlas
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Just waiting for the FFV propaganda machine to come out and say they have had a terrific response from clubs applying to join the new league. I hope they back their statements by naming the clubs. If anyone on this forum is associated with any club, what will your club do?
Edited by Atlas: 24/4/2013 07:02:30 PM
Edited by Atlas: 24/4/2013 07:03:16 PM
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cro69
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paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. I bet you $500 that there will be. 2 out of the current 24 vpl and divi 1 clubs keen. As for rest if FFV dont change their model then all will be joining the bayside comp. Still want to offer that bet? il take the bet. You dont know about the goings on behind the scene then, the secret meetings between the powerhouse clubs in victoria.:lol: :lol: Fine by me. If 2 or less of this year's VPL clubs apply for the NPL you win, if more than two do, I win. Deal? Edited by paladisious: 24/4/2013 02:23:10 PM There was 3 clubs interested 2 weeks ago, but 2 dropped interest when the hard copy of FFV imposed NPL details came out.:roll: :roll:
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paladisious
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cro69 wrote:paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:paladisious wrote:cro69 wrote:Definitely no NPL in Victoria next season. I bet you $500 that there will be. 2 out of the current 24 vpl and divi 1 clubs keen. As for rest if FFV dont change their model then all will be joining the bayside comp. Still want to offer that bet? il take the bet. You dont know about the goings on behind the scene then, the secret meetings between the powerhouse clubs in victoria.:lol: :lol: Fine by me. If 2 or less of this year's VPL clubs apply for the NPL you win, if more than two do, I win. Deal? Edited by paladisious: 24/4/2013 02:23:10 PM There was 3 clubs interested 2 weeks ago, but 2 dropped interest when the hard copy of FFV imposed NPL details came out.:roll: :roll: So are you putting your money where your mouth is, or what?
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cro69
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yep!!!
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paladisious
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krisskrash
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I'm curious, what are the positive points about this plan in your mind? Wouldn't mind a discussion on the pros and cons.
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paladisious
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krisskrash wrote:I'm curious, what are the positive points about this plan in your mind? Wouldn't mind a discussion on the pros and cons. Well for starters, I get $500. That's pretty good.
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cro69
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I have found 3 clubs wanting to be a part of comp excluding victory and heart 3rds teams. 2 in VPL and 1 in divi 4 west division. Find another 7? or is it 9 for a 14 team comp. 1 club has over 500 supporters depending on opposition, 2nd club has 100 supporters or more depending on opposition, and 3rd club has 30 supporters and thats on a good day. For any of these NPL clubs in the Victorian equivalent to survive and make ends meet, their going to need 1500 supporters at a minimum to avoid bankruptcy at each home game. Il change the 2 VPL clubs to No VPL clubs interested in NPL anymore.Looking very good for Bayside federation.:-"
Edited by cro69: 28/4/2013 10:07:07 AM
Edited by cro69: 28/4/2013 06:25:00 PM
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Atlas
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Heard the Surf Coast club is applying. Good luck to them and the whole concept.
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cro69
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Atlas wrote:Heard the Surf Coast club is applying. Good luck to them and the whole concept. Surf Coast, Box Hill ,Knox City, Berwick all have a total of 600 supporters :lol: :lol:
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paulbagzFC
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cro69 wrote:Atlas wrote:Heard the Surf Coast club is applying. Good luck to them and the whole concept. Surf Coast, Box Hill ,Knox City, Berwick all have a total of 600 supporters :lol: :lol: Oh stop it. You're starting to sound like A-League wankers who harp on about crowds all the time. -PB
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cro69
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paulbagzFC wrote:cro69 wrote:Atlas wrote:Heard the Surf Coast club is applying. Good luck to them and the whole concept. Surf Coast, Box Hill ,Knox City, Berwick all have a total of 600 supporters :lol: :lol: Oh stop it. You're starting to sound like A-League wankers who harp on about crowds all the time. -PB paulbagzFC - What do you know about current climate in state football in Victoria???:-$
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Benjamin
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cro69 wrote:Let's have a look at some real world figures for the NPL.
Juniors. 1700 fee per child. Mandatory to have under 12,13,14,15,16,18 boys and under 13, 15 & 18 girls. That's 9 teams (assuming that you will give your youth team - u20's a full scholarship)
Each team will have 15 players minimum. 15 players x 1700 = 25,500 x 9 teams = 229,500. (135 kids) This must cover registrations, apparel, coaching staff, physio, referees, technical director and ground maintenance / utilities.
Apparel per child as follows. For a better brand (not covo, pelada etc.) Training kit x 2 = $80, Playing kit x 2 = $160, Tracksuit = $100, Sprayjacket / Jumper = $60, Club Polo = $50. Apparel alone per child = $450 x 135 kids = $60,750. Leaves you with $168,750 from your registrations. Take away half of the Licence fee for your senior men, women and u20's registration leaves you with $25,000 left that your juniors must pick up. Leaves you with $143,750
Coaching Staff 40 week paid season for the following B Licence TD - 600 per week = $24,000
Under 18 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $600 (300, 200, 100) = $24,000 for the season x 2 for including girls team ($48,000)
Under 16 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $500 (250, 200, 50) = $20,000 for the season
Under 15 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $400 (200, 150, 50) = $16,000 for the season x 2 for including girls team ($32,000)
Under 14 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $400 (200, 150, 50) = $16,000 for the season
Under 13 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $300 (150, 100, 50) = $12,000 for the season x 2 for including girls team ($24,000)
Under 12 Coach, Asisstant & Goalkeeping Coach Combined Bargain basement price $300 (150, 100, 50) = $12,000 for the season
Combined Coaching costs for 40 week season (training and games) = $176,000
Add in Physiotherapist / Sports Trainer Costs for all teams including wages / products / strapping costs = 3 Physios (One for Senior mens, womens and 20's team / not included in calculation / one for all boys teams and one for all girls teams = 40 weeks x 400 (wages / product expenses) = $16,000 x 2 Physios = $32,000
Add that cost to the coaching costs and you reach a figure of $192,000 Bring in your remaining money from Player registrations and you are already at a deficit of -$48,250
And we haven't even got to referee fees which on a rough estimate will cost about $100 per home game per team on average. 9 teams, 9 home games = $8100 Electricity for 2 grounds with decent floodlighting = $8,500 per year for running them 5 days a week for 3 hours for training x 40 weeks x .22c per KwH. An extra $16,000 or so to tack on to your 48k deficit.
Somehow I don't think that 135 kids, playing in an elite, snob nosed competition are not going to be able to overturn a $65,000 deficit through canteen sales and sponsorship of junior teams for the year. You will lose money.
The coaching fees I've put down are relatively low for the amount of commitment expected / level of 'expertise'
These are the real world figures for running an 'elite' competition. Tell me how much the federation is prepared to pump into clubs to achieve this outcome? Who is the major sponsor of the league which will put in 100k to each club to keep them going?!And this is only juniors.
The AFL puts in upwards of $250k to the TAC Cup clubs to run 2!!!! elite teams. Not that the AFL is a good example to compare to, but it's a local one nonetheless. FFV also want each club to have a Director of Football figure to oversea the whole set-up. Quality assessment of the financials involved though.
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Arthur
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From another forum this is WA's NPL document; http://www.footballwest.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/NPL/Application_-_Final.pdfCompare this to the conditions placed on Clubs in Victoria
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cro69
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Why cant ours in Victoria be that simple??? Bloody FFV all those people in contol of FFV need to be removed from there.
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imonfourfourtwo
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Ballarat Red Devils seek licence for National Premier Leagues
BALLARAT Red Devils have set their sights on the big time. The Haymes Red Devils confirmed yesterday they will chase a licence in the soon-to-be-formed National Premier Leagues Victoria competition, an elite second-tier platform for Australian senior soccer to be established in each state by 2014. Ballarat president James Winton said the club had been heading towards this opportunity for the past decade. “Both the current and previous boards have moved the club to a position where we can launch a persuasive bid to be the region’s National Premier Leagues club,” Winton said. “There is a real excitement around what we can achieve for the sport and we are fully committed to delivering this opportunity for football in the western region.” Ballarat has called on experienced soccer administrator Andrew Burgess to chair the licence bid. “I’m excited to be once again involved with the club and I look forward to working with a united board and corporate group to turn this vision into a reality,” Burgess said. “Without doubt, securing a place in the NPLV will be a major step forward for not just the club but football generally in the region.” Football Federation Victoria has described the NPLV as the ultimate league for aspiring talented players in the state. “The powerhouse clubs of Victorian football have all expressed interest in securing a place. In less than 12 months, football fans in the region will see our junior, youth, women’s and men’s squads playing against the best of the best that this state can turn out,” Burgess said. “Ballarat versus South Melbourne in Ballarat, at a new stadium, with a crowd of 2000 plus for Saturday night football. Now that is worth getting excited about.” FFV will support clubs during the application process, with an announcement of those successful expected in early September. Expressions of interest for the NPLV licence close on May 31. http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/1485728/soccer-ballarat-red-devils-seek-licence-for-national-premier-leagues/?cs=63Edited by imonfourfourtwo: 8/5/2013 08:13:25 AM
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Arthur
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Quote:[size=7]Surf Coast seeks place on national stage[/size]Ryan Reynolds | April 26th, 2013  BIG AMBITIONS: Surf Coast president Joe Taylor watches Ry Herman, Domonic Toffolon and Luke Wigmore train. Photo: Peter Ristevski SURF Coast will launch an audacious bid to be part of the new National Premier League competition next year. The FFA-sanctioned competition, which will have leagues in most states, will become the second tier of soccer in Australia. Surf Coast president Joe Taylor said the club was keen to have a team in the Victorian-based league and would lodge an application with Football Federation Victoria in July. Taylor said it could cost more than $300,000 to enter a team in the National Premier League. "A minimum would be around $300,000. The big challenge for the Torquay economy is developing off-season tourism," he said. "This is perfect for that, because the competition will run from March to October. We are getting a lot of support from major tourism players, so that is a big financial advantage." FFV will make its decision on which teams will form the competition in August or September. It is hoped the National Premier League will be the platform for a promotion and relegation system with the A-League in the next decade. The league is expected to feature two conferences with 10 teams each in Victoria. Taylor said it was vital the region gained a foothold in top level soccer. "Somewhere in five or 10 years it will be a pathway to the A-League," he said. "You have to look ahead, well into the future, and the Surf Coast will have 40,000 people and Armstrong Creek has 55,000 people so there will be a population not far off 100,000 people. "That is a population that can sustain an A-League team." Taylor admitted the club still had a lot of work to do before their dream became a reality. "It's a huge ask, putting the budget together, but we are going to see if we can put a bid together financially and organisationally," he said. He said a name for the team had not been decided, although keeping the Surf Coast brand was possible. "It may be Surf Coast, but there is a possibility that it may not," he said. "We are probably the only club (in the region) that can do it. We have four pitches and fantastic facilities." Taylor said he hoped the State League 4 side would continue as Surf Coast looked to build into the region's prominent club. "To get a team in the league you need a men's team, a women's team as well as under-12 boys and girls teams. Then also under-13s, under-14s, under-15s, under-16s, under-18s and under-20s," he said. He said the club was in a good position because of its strength in boys and girls teams. "We have a very, very strong women's team as well," he said. Edited by Arthur: 9/5/2013 08:36:06 AM
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cro69
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95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding?
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paladisious
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cro69 wrote:95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding?  x5
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4four2
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cro69 wrote:95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding? NPL will be running next year, VPL teams would be foolish not to apply.
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Benjamin
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cro69 wrote:95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding? Unfortunately for those 95% - the highest profile and best equipped club is standing by the FFV & FFA and forging closer links with both bodies. In the meantime, whilst the other 95% are shouting in public about the need to stand together and make a break-away, many of those clubs are still running around having private meetings with the FFV to see how best they can secure themselves a place in the NPL.
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SantiagoBridge
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imonfourfourtwo wrote:Ballarat Red Devils seek licence for National Premier Leagues
BALLARAT Red Devils have set their sights on the big time. The Haymes Red Devils confirmed yesterday they will chase a licence in the soon-to-be-formed National Premier Leagues Victoria competition, an elite second-tier platform for Australian senior soccer to be established in each state by 2014. Ballarat president James Winton said the club had been heading towards this opportunity for the past decade. “Both the current and previous boards have moved the club to a position where we can launch a persuasive bid to be the region’s National Premier Leagues club,” Winton said. “There is a real excitement around what we can achieve for the sport and we are fully committed to delivering this opportunity for football in the western region.” Ballarat has called on experienced soccer administrator Andrew Burgess to chair the licence bid. “I’m excited to be once again involved with the club and I look forward to working with a united board and corporate group to turn this vision into a reality,” Burgess said. “Without doubt, securing a place in the NPLV will be a major step forward for not just the club but football generally in the region.” Football Federation Victoria has described the NPLV as the ultimate league for aspiring talented players in the state. “The powerhouse clubs of Victorian football have all expressed interest in securing a place. In less than 12 months, football fans in the region will see our junior, youth, women’s and men’s squads playing against the best of the best that this state can turn out,” Burgess said. “Ballarat versus South Melbourne in Ballarat, at a new stadium, with a crowd of 2000 plus for Saturday night football. Now that is worth getting excited about.” FFV will support clubs during the application process, with an announcement of those successful expected in early September. Expressions of interest for the NPLV licence close on May 31. http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/1485728/soccer-ballarat-red-devils-seek-licence-for-national-premier-leagues/?cs=63Edited by imonfourfourtwo: 8/5/2013 08:13:25 AM Good on Them
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cro69
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PRESS RELEASE 25.05.2013
Melbourne Knights FC posted on May 26, 2013 21:08 Article Rating
The Melbourne Knights Football Club Extraordinary General Meeting was held on Sunday 26th of May, where members were asked to decide on the future direction of the club. When asked the question regarding whether the Melbourne Knights should submit an ‘Expression of Interest’ for the National Premier League Victoria, due at the end of this month, members voted overwhelmingly against the question posed.
86% of Melbourne Knights Football Club financial members voted against submitting an ‘Expression of Interest’ for Football Federation Victoria new ‘elite’ framework, citing a number of serious concerns for the future of the game in this state. In deciding to withdraw from the National Premier League process, most members believe that the proposed Premier League does not have the club’s or, in fact, football’s best interests at heart.
With a youthful Senior Men’s team which comfortably adheres to the ‘Player Points’ outlined in the NPLV documentation, a commitment to Women’s participation, junior development and coaching excellence, as well as access to a privately owned purposed built Class A facility, the Melbourne Knights already meet many of the criteria for the proposed Premier League, scheduled to begin in 2014.
Despite the club’s apparent suitability for the NPLV, members expressed a number of concerns regarding the FFV’s untested vision and framework. Members were concerned that the club would be forced to charge excessive fees in order to meet exorbitant operational costs, thus making the game or pathway accessible to only those who could afford it. Members questioned the enormous financial strain imposed upon clubs with little to no support from any of the country’s football governing bodies.
Members had issue with the proposed level of control of National Premier League clubs, citing concerns for the lack of self determination available to clubs under the new guidelines. Particularly with regards to ownership of the club’s intellectual property.
When members were made aware of the fact that the NPLV is touted to provide a new ‘Australian National B League’, some expressed sceptiscm with regards to claims that a successful applicant club would have access to a pathway to be promoted to the highest level, many believing that the NPLV model cripples clubs to ensure that they would not be a viable candidate for A-League competition. Finally, members were made aware of the lack of consultation which has occurred in the lead up to the development of the criteria.
The Melbourne Knights believe that the governing body’s failure to engage with many of its key stakeholders has resulted in clubs potentially submitting expressions of interest or, indeed, applications, in order to avoid being ‘left behind’, rather than in anticipation of a new and exciting direction for football in this state – many club administrators believing that they will be offered an ‘eleventh hour’ opportunity to negotiate changes to the fundamentally flawed framework.
In their 60 year history, the Melbourne Knights Football Club have unearthed and produced an enormous number of players who have gone on to compete at various levels of the sport and represent the state and country in countless representative teams. Regardless of where the Melbourne Knights are pushed to fit or fall within the framework of football in this country, the club will continue to nurture young talent and revere excellence for many years to come.
The Melbourne Knights will continue with its tried and proven methodology with regards to club excellence in all regards, servicing players of all ages and abilities, as well as our most important key stakeholders, our members and supporters.
The Melbourne Knights calls upon the Football Federation Victoria to immediately release the criteria for the so-called ‘community leagues’ so that the club, and other clubs like it, may prepare to the fullest for the 2014 season.
Edited by cro69: 26/5/2013 10:07:17 PM
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Arthur
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Good luck to the Melbourne Knights I admire their members stance on this issue.
Will be interesting to see how members of other clubs will react when and if it goes to EGM's for approval.
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paulbagzFC
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cro69 wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:cro69 wrote:Atlas wrote:Heard the Surf Coast club is applying. Good luck to them and the whole concept. Surf Coast, Box Hill ,Knox City, Berwick all have a total of 600 supporters :lol: :lol: Oh stop it. You're starting to sound like A-League wankers who harp on about crowds all the time. -PB paulbagzFC - What do you know about current climate in state football in Victoria???:-$ I know about the current state of State based competitions and crowds are the be all and end all. That and 600 odd supporters for such teams is good at this point in time. -PB
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paulbagzFC
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NPLV definitely sounds infinitely more difficult to be a part then NPLQ. Thought this competition was meant to be regulated Nation wide via the FFA? -PB
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Arthur
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paulbagzFC wrote:NPLV definitely sounds infinitely more difficult to be a part then NPLQ.
Thought this competition was meant to be regulated Nation wide via the FFA?
-PB PB the basic framework was established by the FFA and the state federations have scope to make additional requirements or entry conditions. The FFV has a beauracratic view and ideology completley out of sink with its constituancy. It is set on creating a competition based on "delivery of services" those services being a regionalised competition so new markets can sample second tier football, delivery of standardised coaching so juniors don't need to change clubs, delivery of rebranded clubs to make the second tier more presentable to community and media, more stringent club governance procedures. You know the sort of things beauracracies put on paper that sound really fantastic but in reality are undeliverable, uncosted and rely on some one else to do all the work.
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S.U.S.
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whats souths stand on the whole NPLV?
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11.Boo
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S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? Bent down on their knees I believe....
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tbitm
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Quote:
Media Release: Monday 27th May 2013
One Region..UNITED..One Greater Geelong Galaxy!
The Greater Geelong Galaxy to bid for NPL Licence.
The Greater Geelong Galaxy, on behalf of the Geelong Region Clubs, is proud to announce a UNITED bid for a Licence to play in FFA’s National Premier League commencing in 2014.
We are excited about the prospects and challenges that lie ahead to take football in the Geelong Region into another atmosphere. The NPL will be a competition that will be representative of the best male and female senior, junior and sub junior players across all regional and metropolitan corners of this state. The potential to play in a national competition down the track is also on the horizon.
The Greater Geelong Galaxy, through all its hard work with talented juniors through the last Victorian Champions League and current FFV Regional Challenge Cup, look forward to working with all key stakeholders to put together a bid that is worthy of our great region and city. So stay tuned, get on board and join us in our quest to take football in the Geelong Region into another world……
http://www.sportingpulse.com/club_info.cgi?c=1-8679-132747-0-0&sID=282214I'm not particularly a big fan of the name but the colours look pretty nice as black and gold. It's going to interesting in 4 days what teams will be picked
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Glory Recruit
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Wow brilliant.
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Arthur
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11.Boo wrote:S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? Bent down on their knees I believe.... Ha, Ha. Ha! Boo. The Board is for ging to the NPLV but I don't think they believe what the conditions have become. If it comes to an EGM decision tha will be interesting.
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Benjamin
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S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? South publicly stated that they support the NPL - mainly because the club already has everything in place to participate and therefore requires minimal change in order to move over from VPL to NPL. Knights have gone the other way, despite being in the same position as South. Whilst being quite happy for South to continue in the direction they are heading I applaud the Knights for the clarity and content of their response.
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Troy5
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Benjamin wrote:S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? South publicly stated that they support the NPL - mainly because the club already has everything in place to participate and therefore requires minimal change in order to move over from VPL to NPL. Knights have gone the other way, despite being in the same position as South. Whilst being quite happy for South to continue in the direction they are heading I applaud the Knights for the clarity and content of their response. Theoretically the Knights can enter the NPL after 3 years of its establishment in VIC. Its a shame to not have such a historic club that has developed such fine footballers not in the new comp. Nevertheless from the outside they can determine if their fears are justified and if all goes well and it does develop into the Bleague that is being touted, they can enter in 2017.
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cro69
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If the current board of FFV were to be removed and the NPL tweeked to parallel the other states, then the Knights might change their stance. But for now as ive said all along, the Knights will not be part of the FFV version of NPL.
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Arthur
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And now neither will Green Gully be in the NPLV.
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cro69
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Arthur wrote:And now neither will Green Gully be in the NPLV. And if my greek spies are correct, prepare for Sth Melb to decline the invitation too by weeks end.
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Benjamin
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cro69 wrote:Arthur wrote:And now neither will Green Gully be in the NPLV. And if my greek spies are correct, prepare for Sth Melb to decline the invitation too by weeks end. As I see it, right now South are in a tremendous position - if the NPL goes ahead they are in prime position having played along with the FFV and backed the concept. If enough teams join the comp South will be in a position to be a dominant side - especially as our major rivals are all backing away. If, on the other hand, there aren't enough expressions of interest to justify a league, and the FFV are forced to reduce their demands, South will still be onside with the governing body but will be able to take advantage of any concessions the others negotiate. Win-win.
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cro69
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Benjamin wrote:cro69 wrote:Arthur wrote:And now neither will Green Gully be in the NPLV. And if my greek spies are correct, prepare for Sth Melb to decline the invitation too by weeks end. As I see it, right now South are in a tremendous position - if the NPL goes ahead they are in prime position having played along with the FFV and backed the concept. If enough teams join the comp South will be in a position to be a dominant side - especially as our major rivals are all backing away. If, on the other hand, there aren't enough expressions of interest to justify a league, and the FFV are forced to reduce their demands, South will still be onside with the governing body but will be able to take advantage of any concessions the others negotiate. Win-win. Benjamin i think you will find that Sth Melb will announce at 7pm on Wednesday that there withdrawing their interest in the Victorian version of NPL.;) ;)
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paulbagzFC
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11.Boo wrote:S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? Bent down on their knees I believe.... Probably figured they'd be in the A-League next season o:) :cool: -PB
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cro69
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paulbagzFC wrote:11.Boo wrote:S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? Bent down on their knees I believe.... Probably figured they'd be in the A-League next season o:) :cool: -PB If the FFV continue their stance well well well, then there in for a very rude awakening. The clubs do have a back up plan to show the FFV how serious they are.:roll:
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Arthur
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cro69 wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:11.Boo wrote:S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? Bent down on their knees I believe.... Probably figured they'd be in the A-League next season o:) :cool: -PB If the FFV continue their stance well well well, then there in for a very rude awakening. The clubs do have a back up plan to show the FFV how serious they are.:roll: Summer Soccer will be coming to Victoria.
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melbourne_terrace
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Can i ask because i have never got a clear answer on this, What are the differences between FFV's NPL Model and the other states that is getting clubs and supporters in VIC so against the competition?
Viennese Vuck
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VedranFC
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melbourne_terrace wrote:Can i ask because i have never got a clear answer on this, What are the differences between FFV's NPL Model and the other states that is getting clubs and supporters in VIC so against the competition? Tards :roll:
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Arthur
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melbourne_terrace wrote:Can i ask because i have never got a clear answer on this, What are the differences between FFV's NPL Model and the other states that is getting clubs and supporters in VIC so against the competition? http://www.footballfedvic.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Competitions/NCR/NCR_Presentation_FFV_July_2012.pdfThe highlighted blue parts are FFV requirements Red is FFA.
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cro69
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Arthur wrote:cro69 wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:11.Boo wrote:S.U.S. wrote:whats souths stand on the whole NPLV? Bent down on their knees I believe.... Probably figured they'd be in the A-League next season o:) :cool: -PB If the FFV continue their stance well well well, then there in for a very rude awakening. The clubs do have a back up plan to show the FFV how serious they are.:roll: Summer Soccer will be coming to Victoria. You know whats going on too!!!:-$ Its ment to be a secret still.:oops:
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apillay12
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Does anyone know how many clubs have said 100% there interested in going ahead? So far I can only think of South Melbounre, Greater Geelong, Ballarat Red Devils, Surf Coast
Heard rumours that Bullen may apply and also hearing Hoppers Crossing may be interetsted, does anyone know of any clubs that have expressed interest?
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Arthur
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apillay12 wrote:Does anyone know how many clubs have said 100% there interested in going ahead? So far I can only think of South Melbounre, Greater Geelong, Ballarat Red Devils, Surf Coast
Heard rumours that Bullen may apply and also hearing Hoppers Crossing may be interetsted, does anyone know of any clubs that have expressed interest? South Melbourne Oakliegh Bentliegh Greens Geelong Galaxy Surf Coast Ballarat Red Devils Bulleen Lions Probably most clubs will put in an EOI to see what comes of the submission stage.
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cro69
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Arthur wrote:apillay12 wrote:Does anyone know how many clubs have said 100% there interested in going ahead? So far I can only think of South Melbounre, Greater Geelong, Ballarat Red Devils, Surf Coast
Heard rumours that Bullen may apply and also hearing Hoppers Crossing may be interetsted, does anyone know of any clubs that have expressed interest? South Melbourne Oakliegh Bentliegh Greens Geelong Galaxy = Have no Snr teams or Female sides and no home ground. Surf Coast Ballarat Red Devils Bulleen Lions Probably most clubs will put in an EOI to see what comes of the submission stage. Take out Oakleigh and include Werribee Whittlesea Rangers
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apillay12
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cro69 wrote:Arthur wrote:apillay12 wrote:Does anyone know how many clubs have said 100% there interested in going ahead? So far I can only think of South Melbounre, Greater Geelong, Ballarat Red Devils, Surf Coast
Heard rumours that Bullen may apply and also hearing Hoppers Crossing may be interetsted, does anyone know of any clubs that have expressed interest? South Melbourne Oakliegh Bentliegh Greens Geelong Galaxy = Have no Snr teams or Female sides and no home ground. Surf Coast Ballarat Red Devils Bulleen Lions Probably most clubs will put in an EOI to see what comes of the submission stage. Take out Oakleigh and include Werribee Whittlesea Rangers So looks as if the FFV have got the minimum 8 clubs they need to go ahead, Im still not sure about this from a club point of view the clubs look like they will suffer, but how about from a player point of view? Say for example myself a 21 year old currently playing state 2 would playing in NPLV club next year help me in any way? And what of my house mate a 25 year old fijian international who recently just got here, supposedly there is a limit as to how many foreigners a club may have and they carry more points or something? So the chances of him getting piked up by a club a thin Edited by apillay12: 29/5/2013 12:02:27 AM
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Arthur
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cro69 wrote:Arthur wrote:apillay12 wrote:Does anyone know how many clubs have said 100% there interested in going ahead? So far I can only think of South Melbounre, Greater Geelong, Ballarat Red Devils, Surf Coast
Heard rumours that Bullen may apply and also hearing Hoppers Crossing may be interetsted, does anyone know of any clubs that have expressed interest? South Melbourne Oakliegh Bentliegh Greens Geelong Galaxy = Have no Snr teams or Female sides and no home ground. Surf Coast Ballarat Red Devils Bulleen Lions Probably most clubs will put in an EOI to see what comes of the submission stage. Take out Oakleigh and include Werribee Whittlesea Rangers Keep Oakliegh in. They have organised community split with juniors and are sourcing coaches for juniors.
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Benjamin
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apillay12 wrote:So looks as if the FFV have got the minimum 8 clubs they need to go ahead, Im still not sure about this from a club point of view the clubs look like they will suffer, but how about from a player point of view? Say for example myself a 21 year old currently playing state 2 would playing in NPLV club next year help me in any way? And what of my house mate a 25 year old fijian international who recently just got here, supposedly there is a limit as to how many foreigners a club may have and they carry more points or something? So the chances of him getting piked up by a club a thin They are unlikely to bring in the player points system immediately, if they do it will be chaos... As you say, State 2 players would find themselves in the NPL, with VPL standard players relegated to State 1 - and transfers to NPL clubs incurring points penalties... Your Fijian mate doesn't have too much to worry about - his chances in the NPL would be slim, but there will still be plenty of opportunities for him at State 1 level.
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paladisious
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FFV wrote:NPLV excitement grows 29.05.2013
27 NPLV Expressions of Interest received so far including more than half of the current Victorian Premier League clubs. Football Federation Victoria is delighted to announce that 27 Expressions of Interest (EOI) for National Premier Leagues Victoria (NPLV) have been received so far with more expected before the 31 May deadline.
More than half of the current Victorian Premier League clubs have submitted an EOI with the remainder coming from other clubs and groups across Victoria.
FFV CEO Peter Gome said the organisation is excited with the response rate so far of the new league and is thrilled to be working with so many clubs in laying the foundations for an exciting future of Victorian football.
There is now potential for two NPLV divisions to be established given the 27 EOIs received to date.
All clubs/consortia/entities are still welcome to submit a non-binding EOI and Gome reminded anyone who is contemplating joining the NPLV that it must be received before the 5pm deadline on Friday 31 May.
“There will be no opportunity for people to change their mind if they have not submitted an EOI once the deadline has passed,” he said.
Gome said that FFV is disappointed with recent media reports containing some misinformation and the suggestion that some clubs don’t fully understand parts of the NPLV framework. He also rejects reports that NPLV criteria will still be subject to change.
“There will be no eleventh hour changes to the model,” confirmed Mr. Gome.
“It would not be fair to all interested clubs for us to now make changes to the model. The model is staying as it is.”
Claims that NPLV clubs have to forego their sub-junior programs and as such cause a lack of quality coaching to children aged five to twelve are incorrect according to Gome.
“NPLV clubs can have skill acquisition programs for players below U12 level which fits in with the FFA National Curriculum as the focus up to this age is on skills,” he said.
“The benefit to players below U12 level from these SAP programs is the quality of coaching offered.”
A suggestion that FFV failed to properly consult with the Victorian football community also needed to be corrected.
“From July to December 2012 FFV conducted 15 forums state-wide, including many in metropolitan Melbourne, where interested clubs and groups attended,” he said.
Although Gome accepted that some clubs do not like components of the NPLV model, he pointed out it is a Football Federation Australia initiative and is consistent with the NPL implementation in all other states and territories.
“The NPL has already been introduced by New South Wales, Queensland, Tasmania, ACT and South Australia in 2013 with other states to follow in 2014.”
FFV will not be accepting EOIs after the 5pm deadline on 31 May 2013 and Gome said he is looking forward to working with potential NPLV clubs to ensure a great competition.
“The second phase of the process is preparing and lodging the NPLV application. This is the exciting part where clubs will really get to grips with all the components that will make them a great NPLV club.
“FFV will assist clubs during the application process and looks forward to announcing the successful NPLV licencees in September,” he said.
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Benjamin
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With regard to the FFV's statement (above)... Benjamin wrote:cro69 wrote:95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding? Unfortunately for those 95% - the highest profile and best equipped club is standing by the FFV & FFA and forging closer links with both bodies. In the meantime, whilst the other 95% are shouting in public about the need to stand together and make a break-away, many of those clubs are still running around having private meetings with the FFV to see how best they can secure themselves a place in the NPL. 95% of VPL/State1 clubs SAYING they are outraged by the NPL recommendations... But half of them have submitted an application to join the NPL. What they say in public is very different to what they do behind closed boardroom doors.
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TimmyJ
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Benjamin wrote:With regard to the FFV's statement (above)... Benjamin wrote:cro69 wrote:95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding? Unfortunately for those 95% - the highest profile and best equipped club is standing by the FFV & FFA and forging closer links with both bodies. In the meantime, whilst the other 95% are shouting in public about the need to stand together and make a break-away, many of those clubs are still running around having private meetings with the FFV to see how best they can secure themselves a place in the NPL. 95% of VPL/State1 clubs SAYING they are outraged by the NPL recommendations... But half of them have submitted an application to join the NPL. What they say in public is very different to what they do behind closed boardroom doors. Is there a sort of "if you can't beat em' join em' vibe going around?
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apillay12
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VPL CLUBS WITHDRAWING FROM NPL
MELBOURNE KNIGHTS GREEN GULLY PORT MELBOURNE BENTLEIGH GREENS PASCOE VALE HUME CITY
WHOSE LEFT FROM THE VPL?
STATE 1 CLUBS WITHDRAWING FROM NPL ALTONA MAGIC
Also read that Preston Lions wont be submitting an EOI, lots of big clubs saying no, are we going to have summer football here in victoria?
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paladisious
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MFootbal wrote:Thunder submit NPL interest amid indecision By Donald Sutherland May 30, 2013
Dandenong Thunder says it will submit an expression of interest (EOI) for the new National Premier League Victoria (NPLV), but maintains that no decision has been made about actually joining next year’s competition. Speaking exclusively to MFootball, Dandenong Thunder spokesperson Mr Sezar Jakupi said the decision was made purely to be a part of the next period of discussion, and said the club wants a key number of issues addressed before it will consider a formal application for the new league. “We will be submitting the expression of interest, what they refer to as “Part One”, therefore indicating that we want to be a part of the initial phase,” Mr Jakupi confirmed. “At this point in time, we can’t preempt what will happen and where it will go from here. Obviously, there are other clubs who have publicly voiced their opinions and their concerns over the process. “At this point in time, we’re seeking as much information as we can get and try and determine whether we’re going to be able to meet the criteria and so forth.” Mr Jakupi was able to give some insight into what submitting an EOI meant for his club, saying it is not an indication of an application. “To be honest, this stage of the process – what the FFV have termed the expression of interest – it’s just really an early, initial stage where, basically, you’re just flagging your intent to receive more detailed information on the NPLV process. “Really, it’s the next two, three months which become the crucial part of that process. This deadline that’s been set – for the end of this month – there’s no decision being made. “Just because you submit your expression of interest, it doesn’t really mean you’ve been accepted, it doesn’t mean you’ve formally applied – it’s just an expression of interest; exactly what it says.” The Thunder spokesman also said the club would use the upcoming period – before the July 31 deadline to submit formal applications – to better understand the NPLV documentation. “I think it’s fair to say that the club needs more information to fully understand … what’s been published about the NPLV, (as) there are what appears to be quite a few criteria and commitments and requirements, and from both Dandenong Thunder and most of the other VPL clubs, a lot of the concerns centre around financial commitments that’s required through the various criteria that you have to meet in terms of your coaching staff and your playing staff and all the other requirements of facilities and infrastructure and so forth.” “I think it’s reasonable to say that all the clubs are significantly concerned about the financial viability of the current model and whether the current model that’s been proposed is sustainable from a financial perspective. “Again, without wanting to preempt discussion and so forth, I suppose the devil is in the detail, so that will obviously be something that will come out of the discussions and further negotiations or the process around those negotiations as to are there going to be issues which clubs such as Dandenong Thunder see as stumbling blocks to the viability of the whole thing.” Mr Jakupi also said his club has some concerns about the unique Player Points System (PPS) to be introduced within the NPLV. “There are obvious issues which have been discussed by all the clubs regarding the proposed Player Points System and many clubs, including Thunder, have some legitimate concerns about the imposition of penalties for playing players over the age of 25 and so forth. ” The PPS, as outlined in Schedule 1 of the Participation Criteria, is a system where each squad member is worth ten points before adjustments and clubs are allowed a maximum of 275 points for their senior squad in 2014, “and will reduce in subsequent years by 25 points until it is 200 points.” Players over the age of 25 are worth one additional point “for each year the player is over 25.” “It’s open to question as to why a player older than 25 is regarded as someone who the NPLV will impose a penalty on to the associated clubs. Who’s definition came up with the age of 25? You would think that most players are probably actually starting to mature and play their best football maybe at that age. “So there are obvious, legitimate concerns that the clubs would have with that. I don’t think there’s really been any consultation on that.” Thunder’s decision could be dependent on which clubs join the NPLV, Mr Jakupi indicated, with the current Victorian Champion wanting to play in the best tier of state league football and play against the best footballers. “Our club’s position is is that we want to evaluate the NPLV that is as a competition in which there is a sustainable and long term viability for those clubs, and of course – which should presumably be the core primary objective – is that NPLV should represent the strongest competition in Victoria. “So there would be some obvious concerns in that if there are a number of current VPL clubs who have already identified or highlighted their concern and, probably in some cases, their rejection of the NPLV model. “Obviously, we’re not going to know the composition of the NPLV until the assessment process has gone through. One of legitimate concern from any of the current VPL clubs is who actually ends up making that according to the FFV assessment and how does that fit? “Is that truly a representative picture of the strongest or elite clubs in Victoria, from a playing perspective?”
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Atlas
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For Dandenong Thunder to be joining this new league, they must like the fines imposed on them by the FFV.
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cro69
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apillay12 wrote:VPL CLUBS WITHDRAWING FROM NPL
MELBOURNE KNIGHTS GREEN GULLY PORT MELBOURNE BENTLEIGH GREENS PASCOE VALE HUME CITY
WHOSE LEFT FROM THE VPL?
STATE 1 CLUBS WITHDRAWING FROM NPL ALTONA MAGIC
Also read that Preston Lions wont be submitting an EOI, lots of big clubs saying no, are we going to have summer football here in victoria? There is no rep team from the west zone applying for NPL. The strongest zone and no representation at all.
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paulbagzFC
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So where's this announcement that South were pulling out? -PB
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dirk vanadidas
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cro69 wrote:
There is no rep team from the west zone applying for NPL. The strongest zone and no representation at all.
FFV will just do what FQ did and give the license to the local zone , who will then work with the community clubs ala Western Pride. By the way the rest of Oz is larfing at you in Victoria at your inabilities in the Sports capital of straya.
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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Benjamin
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TimmyJ wrote:Benjamin wrote:With regard to the FFV's statement (above)... Benjamin wrote:cro69 wrote:95% of VPL and State1 clubs about to desert FFV over their version of NPL. Secret meetings already underway about creating a summer comp of powerfull victorian clubs ( FACT ). This will be in direct competition to the A League. So unless the FFV dont change their version of NPL, then there going to lose a lot of revenue next coming season. This comp is already in advance stages and will be ready for kick off as early as late October this year.Refs in place, insurances done , constitution done. Do FFV still think the powerhouse clubs are kidding? Unfortunately for those 95% - the highest profile and best equipped club is standing by the FFV & FFA and forging closer links with both bodies. In the meantime, whilst the other 95% are shouting in public about the need to stand together and make a break-away, many of those clubs are still running around having private meetings with the FFV to see how best they can secure themselves a place in the NPL. 95% of VPL/State1 clubs SAYING they are outraged by the NPL recommendations... But half of them have submitted an application to join the NPL. What they say in public is very different to what they do behind closed boardroom doors. Is there a sort of "if you can't beat em' join em' vibe going around? It may be a bit of that. It's a very complicated issue. I can completely understand all of the points the Knights are making, but I can also totally understand why the clubs that are going for it (South, Dandenong, Oakleigh, Richmond, etc.) are looking to secure a place. Like it or not, this will be the second tier in Australia and it will be where (long term) the FFA will look for a second division of some kind if its ever going to happen. I wouldn't be stunned if they change the player points system to allow clubs to hijack the best players from non-NPL clubs without incurring extra points... They will do whatever they can to direct the best players into the NPL.
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SydneyCroatia
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These clubs havent stated that they're going for it. They've done nothing more than submit an EOI
A couple of clubs have already made it clear that they only submitted their EOI so that they can see how it pans out. I havent heard too many clubs come out and say "we're 100% committed to this concept"
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paladisious
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paulbagzFC wrote:So where's this announcement that South were pulling out?
-PB It's Friday, so the latest e-newsletter is out from South. Headlines are: "South to face Pascoe Vale test", "South to face Herculean task on Queens Birthday Monday", "Socceroos to train at Lakeside Stadium", "South to participate in the 2013 Sydney Youth Cup and 2013 Sydney Junior Cup", "Dominant South diffuse Cannons", and: "southRadio Episode 7 now available!", wherein "Griffin will provide his weekly canteen ratings!" I would have thought their 7pm announcement on Wednesday would have rated a mention. :-k
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Benjamin
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SydneyCroatia wrote:These clubs havent stated that they're going for it. They've done nothing more than submit an EOI
A couple of clubs have already made it clear that they only submitted their EOI so that they can see how it pans out. I havent heard too many clubs come out and say "we're 100% committed to this concept" FFV only need 10 to make it worthwhile (from their point of view). The clubs that have submitted EOI to see how things pan out are doing the sensible thing. Those who have shut the door (whilst I understand their reasoning) may have cost themselves 3 years of development.
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Blackmissionary
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paladisious wrote:I would have thought their 7pm announcement on Wednesday would have rated a mention. :-k This is the third time I've read about this, and I still have no idea where this rumour has come from.
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paulbagzFC
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Blackmissionary wrote:paladisious wrote:I would have thought their 7pm announcement on Wednesday would have rated a mention. :-k This is the third time I've read about this, and I still have no idea where this rumour has come from. Scroll back a page to see cro69 waffling about it. -PB
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Capac
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Quote: Bentleigh “not likely” to be a part of NPL By Donald Sutherland May 29, 2013
EXCLUSIVE | The new National Premier League Victoria (NPLV) looks likely to go ahead without the inclusion or support of Bentleigh Greens, club Chairman Ray Georgiou confirmed today.
Speaking exclusively to MFootball, Mr Georgiou said his club had already submitted an expression of interest, but after consultation with other Victorian Premier League (VPL) clubs and further assessment of NPLV documentation, the Cheltenham-based side had a change of heart.
“Yeah, we did put in an expression of interest because I guess we didn’t want to get left out of the process at that stage. I think we’ve had more of a chance to meet with the clubs and study the documents more since then,” Mr Georgiou said.
Mr Georgiou described his club’s chance of being in the new competition as “not likely,” citing financial problems and restrictions on Bentleigh’s unique educational clinics as reasons for the club’s view, while stating one positive of the NPLV.
“Fiscally, I don’t see how anyone could sustain that, first of all. Secondly, there is only one benefit that you will see – that we’re limited to $50,000 (in licence fees) to the FFV. A club of our size, and I imagine Melbourne Knights and others might pay more, but we face a $60,000 bill to the FFV in a normal season, so that’s the only benefit.” “We’ve got one junior program – an under 18 elite program – where the parents pay a premium, and they do two nights a week plus a third night of theory in prac., which is an approved VET (Vocational Education & Training) program through Higher Education and Skills Group. “That’s quite an advanced program where you can get a certificate I, II, III or IV in sport and coaching. There’s no way of knowing whether that falls into a private clinic definition and therefore would have to be dismantled under this NPLV [as outlined in Section 2.8 of the NPLV Participation Criteria].
“In my opinion, that program is in advance of what the NPLV wants to do. You’re doing a proper, employer recognised qualification while you’re doing your juniors – so what happens to that program? It’s completely unknown.”
Mr Georgiou also said he believed a “massive re-write” would be needed for his club to change its stance, highlighting current arrangements regarding his club’s facilities as a key issues of the structural changes the NPLV would bring in.
“I don’t see tinkering with it making a difference to us,” Mr Georgiou said. “We have a lease of the grounds for (until) 2018 which has been re-jigged into a licence which will run until 2028 and the community obligations of Bentleigh Greens come first in that lease to the council.
“That’s the top priority, so for someone like us in a regional class facility to do NPLV, we would need to invent another entity – Bentleigh Greens would need to stay a community club, whatever that means of course, because the FFV or FFA have not come forth with what is the fate of all these re-classified community clubs.”
However, the Bentleigh Greens Chairman said his council, City of Kingston, had not forced their hand in regards to the NPLV, even though the new competition would cause headaches for the local government.
“We’re on the same page with our council. We meet with them regularly because of our lease agreement. They are prepared to support Bentleigh Greens which ever way we wanted to go, but they would have a problem with the elite number of training hours that the elite squads need in such a small number of players.
“It would preclude a lot of visitor and casual bookings (of the venue). It would cause a problem to council but they haven’t said “oh you can’t go in.” They’ve been very supportive. On the other hand, the current lease arrangement comes first.”
Mr Georgiou also indicated that many other VPL clubs could pull out of the next year’s top tier too, saying that not many Premier League clubs have been happy with the proposed model. “We’ve had a series of meetings over the last month. The general mood is that there’s been little enthusiasm from anyone. We have no knowledge in metro Melbourne of anyone being able to cobble together the money and the resources to do NPLV. “To our knowledge, there isn’t anyone.”
So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football?
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Benjamin
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Capac wrote:So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football? Actually the opposite. Under the new system costs will be higher but clubs will be restricted in the number of teams they can operate - so fewer kids paying higher fees. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that lower income families will be pushed toward smaller 'community' sides with lesser facilities and coaching standards, whilst less talented kids with wealthier parents will get better coaching.
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paladisious
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Benjamin wrote:Capac wrote:So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football? Actually the opposite. Under the new system costs will be higher but clubs will be restricted in the number of teams they can operate - so fewer kids paying higher fees. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that lower income families will be pushed toward smaller 'community' sides with lesser facilities and coaching standards, whilst less talented kids with wealthier parents will get better coaching. Doesn't he say in the next paragraph of that article that the fees for the club would be less under the NPL? Is there something else I'm missing?
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Benjamin
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paladisious wrote:Benjamin wrote:Capac wrote:So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football? Actually the opposite. Under the new system costs will be higher but clubs will be restricted in the number of teams they can operate - so fewer kids paying higher fees. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that lower income families will be pushed toward smaller 'community' sides with lesser facilities and coaching standards, whilst less talented kids with wealthier parents will get better coaching. Doesn't he say in the next paragraph of that article that the fees for the club would be less under the NPL? Is there something else I'm missing? The fees for the club (not the parents) will reduce from approx $60k to approx $50k, however, where they would previously have been able to have 100 or more kids per age group, they will now be limited to around 15-18 kids per age group. Couple that to the need to have more training sessions per week, for more weeks of the year, with more qualified coaches, and the need for a director of football type at each club, the costs rise significantly. These increases have to be met - if you previously had 100 kids paying $500/year each - that's $50,000. If you only have 20 kids now, but still need to raise that $50,000... How do you raise the money without charging $2,500 each?
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paladisious
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Benjamin wrote:paladisious wrote:Benjamin wrote:Capac wrote:So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football? Actually the opposite. Under the new system costs will be higher but clubs will be restricted in the number of teams they can operate - so fewer kids paying higher fees. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that lower income families will be pushed toward smaller 'community' sides with lesser facilities and coaching standards, whilst less talented kids with wealthier parents will get better coaching. Doesn't he say in the next paragraph of that article that the fees for the club would be less under the NPL? Is there something else I'm missing? The fees for the club (not the parents) will reduce from approx $60k to approx $50k, however, where they would previously have been able to have 100 or more kids per age group, they will now be limited to around 15-18 kids per age group. Couple that to the need to have more training sessions per week, for more weeks of the year, with more qualified coaches, and the need for a director of football type at each club, the costs rise significantly. These increases have to be met - if you previously had 100 kids paying $500/year each - that's $50,000. If you only have 20 kids now, but still need to raise that $50,000... How do you raise the money without charging $2,500 each? Yes I see. I wasn't aware clubs were required to limit the numbers in each age group, sounds like a terrible idea.
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Capac
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Benjamin wrote:paladisious wrote:Benjamin wrote:Capac wrote:So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football? Actually the opposite. Under the new system costs will be higher but clubs will be restricted in the number of teams they can operate - so fewer kids paying higher fees. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that lower income families will be pushed toward smaller 'community' sides with lesser facilities and coaching standards, whilst less talented kids with wealthier parents will get better coaching. Doesn't he say in the next paragraph of that article that the fees for the club would be less under the NPL? Is there something else I'm missing? The fees for the club (not the parents) will reduce from approx $60k to approx $50k, however, where they would previously have been able to have 100 or more kids per age group, they will now be limited to around 15-18 kids per age group. Couple that to the need to have more training sessions per week, for more weeks of the year, with more qualified coaches, and the need for a director of football type at each club, the costs rise significantly. These increases have to be met - if you previously had 100 kids paying $500/year each - that's $50,000. If you only have 20 kids now, but still need to raise that $50,000... How do you raise the money without charging $2,500 each? You'll have to pardon my ignorance here but how much doee your average top club charge juniors? I noticed that the rules put a cap of $1700 on fees and just assumed that that would be below what most of the clubs charge now.
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Capac
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paladisious wrote:Benjamin wrote:paladisious wrote:Benjamin wrote:Capac wrote:So would this statement suggest that one of the major bones of contention many of the clubs have is the inability in the future to charge exorbitant fees to juniors. Isn't this seen as part of the problem, the very fact that you are cutting off people who can't afford to pay 2k a season for their kid to play football? Actually the opposite. Under the new system costs will be higher but clubs will be restricted in the number of teams they can operate - so fewer kids paying higher fees. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that lower income families will be pushed toward smaller 'community' sides with lesser facilities and coaching standards, whilst less talented kids with wealthier parents will get better coaching. Doesn't he say in the next paragraph of that article that the fees for the club would be less under the NPL? Is there something else I'm missing? The fees for the club (not the parents) will reduce from approx $60k to approx $50k, however, where they would previously have been able to have 100 or more kids per age group, they will now be limited to around 15-18 kids per age group. Couple that to the need to have more training sessions per week, for more weeks of the year, with more qualified coaches, and the need for a director of football type at each club, the costs rise significantly. These increases have to be met - if you previously had 100 kids paying $500/year each - that's $50,000. If you only have 20 kids now, but still need to raise that $50,000... How do you raise the money without charging $2,500 each? Yes I see. I wasn't aware clubs were required to limit the numbers in each age group, sounds like a terrible idea. They did this a few years ago and it disnt seem to have a huge negative impact. The basic idea was to reduce the monopoly some of the big clubs had over juniors. It resulted in quite a few new clubs springing up and new age griups forming and becoming important. That said adelaide is a third the size so really we dont have 6or7 divisions in each age group.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Look guys, the NPL and the local state versions are all about creating a sustainable pathway for the development of elite youngsters. This was never hidden. It was there in black and white right from the start. If you check out the Powerpoint presentations it's very clear. Priority No. 1 is about creating a deeper, better and more sustainable program for the development of a larger number of high quality youngsters who would then come through to the age of 18-20 and be ready for bigger things.
It was never about what is good for the current clubs of the VPL in their current forms with their current reason d’être. The clubs who have decided to not submit a EOI have miscalculated badly. They have not understood what the game is. They have assumed the point was to improve the Victorian league. That may happen over time but it is not the key objective.
In Victoria, the current talent identification and development process just isn't working. It is too hit and miss. Most clubs don't have strong, professional programs that can identify enough young kids from early enough (8-10 yrs) and then develop them over 7-9 years through a sustained and high quality program with the right, professional coaches with the right accreditation, knowledge and experience. Even the best programs in the most organised clubs (or academies) were not doing this consistently, and there are clearly not enough of them with the oversight and longevity required.
This is why the FFV/FFA have long taken it upon themselves to play this role with the Skillaroos, Skill Acquisition Programs, NTC, etc, and in Victoria the VCL each summer. But these programs are of course limited to small numbers and statistically speaking will have limited success in terms of getting volume through the program and out the other side, at the right level. And the VCL was very hit and miss. Trying to choose the best kids over 1-2 weeks in September/October with a rather small number of coaches seeing them in 2-3 artificial trials for a very short period of time is not the way to increase your strike rate in picking the best talent. And the results (or lack of them) are there for all to see.
To pick the kids with the best talent you need to get these kids into the right, professional programs early (8-10 yrs) and to then get them to play against each other regularly from 12+ and watch them regularly over a sustained period with many eyes on them.
This is the only way to statistically increase your chances of successfully picking and keeping the focus on the talented kids, as they develop through the program. This is what the NPL is about. All the rest is dressing.
And of course if the trial processes are fair and open and robust (not at all what I've seen at the VCL) then some kids will drop out and others will be added to the core talent pool as they move up the age groups. These kids will/should come from the community clubs. But the core talent pool will (after the initial few years) move up as a group (within the 10 or 12 elite clubs/programs) around Victoria.
So at some point in the not too distant future we should have approximately 360 young players (12 clubs x U18 + U20 X 15 per squad)who have moved through an intense, professional program (8-10 hrs per week plus games x 48 weeks per year)since they were U12s. A consistent program set up and run by accredited coaches and technical directors at these clubs. Hence the steep and rigorous requirements stipulated in the criteria for the NPLV. We need a critical mass of programs, at the right standard for a sustainable period in order to produce the volume. And every couple of years we will add another 360 to the earlier group.
This is what it's about. Some of these boys will move on to bigger and better things such as State and National squads and A-league and perhaps beyond and most will play in the Senior teams of these elite clubs.
But it's not about the senior teams of these elite clubs; it's about increasing our strike rate in respect to identifying and developing talent which will move beyond the states. In Australia, with our small population, limited resources and the dominance of the hand-ball codes we cannot achieve this in the same way that it is achieved overseas. That's just a fact of the lay of the land. So the powers that be have come up with this approach. It may not be the best approach and will definitely need to be tweaked as we go forward but it's certainly better than what I've seen around the traps at this moment.
Now all of this will have a number of consequences, some of which we can probably see now and others we will find as we move forward.
Clearly one of the key consequences will be that the current VPL competition will change. The emphasis will not be on the club and the fan who comes to watch their VPL senior team. It will be on the development of young talent.
Another consequence will probably be that the quality of the senior squads/teams will suffer over the short to mid term because of the point system. We will lose experienced players to the lower divisions. But I think with time this will come around again and perhaps surpass what we have today because the quality coming through will improve and cannot all go to the A-League, even in an expanded form. The talent of the pool of top tier state players will, over time, get much better even if they are younger.
One final thing. The cost. Such a program is expensive. I've seen it first hand in one of the clubs and there was a good analysis put up on one of the threads here on 4-4-2 a few weeks ago which also showed how expensive the program will be (although in my opinion that poster still underestimated the cost). The program for 10+ hrs per week x 48 weeks with the right coaches and overview and support will be in excess of $2,500 per year per player. This is steep but it's not a lot more than a standard community club program with a few holiday academies thrown in during the year ($800 + 3 x $300 = $1,700).
Unfortunately, in Australia today that's what such a program costs. No two ways about it and someone's got to pay. No club at state level can afford to pay for it unless the A-league pays a great deal more for the future talent it gets from these programs. While it doesn't the only way to pay for it is through the parents and that means the parents of the kids that can afford it, to my personal, deep regret.
We will create a situation not unlike the private/public split we have in the education system in Australia. Those that can afford it will send their kids to the private schools and if the kid shows some football talent those same parents will/can pay for their place in the elite football clubs.
Now this will create two potential problems. One is in my view a non-problem while the other one is very real.
Will we get less talented players because we have high fees? Maybe in the very early stages but very soon there will be enough highly talented players with the money to pay. It happens in the education system and it will happen in football. And don't forget that success is 90% hard work and commitment and only 10% talent. Over time this fact will mitigate against this first problem.
Will we lose talented kids because they can't afford it. Yes we will. That's life in Australia today in so many areas. It's a sad fact and is one the FFV/FFA must find ways to minimise the effects of. For two reasons. It's a question of social justice and also of missing out on exceptional talent. The key way to make this work is to put money in for scholarships at every elite club and set very clear and policed means-tested criteria for the awarding of these scholarships. They should not expect the clubs to do this. They can't afford it and will have little inclination to do it at the early years when it's so hard to tell if the talent and commitment is actually there.
So in the end what does this all mean?
The new elite NPLV clubs will be different beasts to the current VPL clubs with a different focus. Or at least two very distinct areas of focus. The quality of senior team football may/will suffer in the initial phase but will probably come back better in time.
I for one hope it works because I want to see better opportunities for our youngsters and better tier one football in time. And I'm prepared to wait for this to happen. Ultimately we should see better football all the way up.
The clubs who opted out will unfortunately play no role in making it a better process over the next few years and in correcting the NPLV's initial shortcomings. In time I think they will probably regret their decision and their members will not forgive them.
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Priest
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Where is the facepalm when you need it?
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TheSelectFew
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Priest wrote:Where is the facepalm when you need it?
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Priest
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=d>
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SydneyCroatia
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Mate you do realise that, at least in the case of the Knights, it was the members who made the decision, right?
That's how things work at real clubs
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Stallion
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Well written Steven. That's what forums are all about, you learn things from different perspectives.
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Priest
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No, forums are about people with NFI getting to have their say to some sort of an audience.
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Steven of Balwyn
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SydneyCroatia wrote:Mate you do realise that, at least in the case of the Knights, it was the members who made the decision, right?
That's how things work at real clubs Yes mate I do realise that the members may have voted. But before the vote there was discussion and presentations and guidance from the board and management of these clubs. The misguided 'guidance' is the problem and when they realise this they won't forgive their board for miscalculating. For instance, the stuff I heard about the IP issue is laughable to say the least. Clubs fearing that they were giving up their rights, their names, etc etc. How many of these voting members really read the documents and understood what was required? How many of the board members did? Who are you kidding mate? It was just people's pig headedness and refusal to accept change. And at the end of the day why not submit an EOI and have a chance to influence the process and find out more about it from the inside? Doing so creates no obligation of any sort on any club!! Why would someone not take this opportunity? Unless of course they were determined to see the process fail from the outset.
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Priest
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TheSelectFew wrote:Priest wrote:Where is the facepalm when you need it? 
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Steven of Balwyn
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Priest wrote:No, forums are about people with NFI getting to have their say to some sort of an audience. Now now. Why so nasty? You don't like what I'm saying then make an argument. I'm prepared to listen and to change my view. Throwing stones isn't going to help anyone.
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Priest
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I've never got a response from a brick wall so I don't bother trying to get one anymore. You seem to know the Knights have got it all wrong anyway so nothing to discuss.
Just waiting for you and the rest of the experts to say I told you so, once the FFV moves the NPLV goal posts.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Priest wrote:I've never got a response from a brick wall so I don't bother trying to get one anymore. You seem to know the Knights have got it all wrong anyway so nothing to discuss.
Just waiting for you and the rest of the experts to say I told you so, once the FFV moves the NPLV goal posts. Priest why do you assume I'm a brick wall? We've never conversed before have we? Have I ever behaved in such a way towards you or anyone else on this thread/site? I think the Knights and some others did get it wrong. They should have submitted an EOI and participated in the next phase of the process. No one could easily condemn them of walking away because they didn't get what they wanted if they did this. Now it just looks pig-headed. As to saying 'I told you so' it's not my way. I won't be happy to see the Knights left out and much less so if they end up being diminished over time by their exclusion.
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SydneyCroatia
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The FFV have made it very clear that nothing will change in regards to the criteria.
Why would the Knights piss away valuable resources to 'participate in the next phase' when the next phase of the process is putting together an application?
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Priest
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Steve when you can answer SydneyCroatia's question we can continue talking. Until then :-$ Quote:Media Release
Wednesday 5 June 2013
FFV APPOINTS NEW CEO
Football Federation Victoria (FFV) today announced it has appointed Mitchell Murphy as its new Chief Executive Officer.
Mr Murphy who has a Master of Business Administration was appointed after an extensive recruitment process by the FFV Board and recruitment firm Derwent Executive.
Mr Murphy has more than 15 years’ experience in senior media management roles in Australia and New Zealand and during that time has worked closely with elite sport including football.
He has covered three Olympic Games (Sydney, Athens and Beijing) as a writer and editor.
A former Editor-in-Chief of Fairfax Community Newspapers in Victoria, Mr Murphy spent four years in New Zealand as General Manager (Auckland) of Fairfax Media before taking up his current role as Executive Director (Publishing) of The Newspaper Works, the peak media industry body for the Asia Pacific Region.
“I have been passionate about football for a long time and as the father of a son who has played junior football for the past five years, I understand the issues for parents and grassroots participants,” said Murphy, who is the uncle of Matildas star Katrina Gorry.
“I am excited to be joining FFV at a time when football is on the rise, with a record A-League season on all fronts. With the leadership David Gallop and the FFA are providing and the anticipation of the AFC Asian Cup in 2015, I believe we can further grow the game in Victoria.
“I am also particularly excited to be involved in the National Premier Leagues Victoria launch.
“While all businesses face hurdles, and FFV is not without challenge, I will be particularly focused on ensuring our financial performance is strong to enhance our services to clubs and players and to keep the costs of participation in check.
“My approach will be collaborative with our members and stakeholders. Football has grown 56 per cent in the past 10 years in Victoria and to ensure that continues I will listen to the views of everyone involved with the game.”
FFV President Nick Monteleone said that he was delighted with the appointment.
“On behalf of the Board and the football family we welcome Mitchell and look forward to a new and exciting chapter for football in Victoria,” said Mr Monteleone.
Mr Murphy will take up his position at FFV on 1 July.
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Arthur
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:
But it's not about the senior teams of these elite clubs; it's about increasing our strike rate in respect to identifying and developing talent which will move beyond the states. In Australia, with our small population, limited resources and the dominance of the hand-ball codes we cannot achieve this in the same way that it is achieved overseas. That's just a fact of the lay of the land. So the powers that be have come up with this approach. It may not be the best approach and will definitely need to be tweaked as we go forward but it's certainly better than what I've seen around the traps at this moment.
In the Victorian context this appears to be the main focus of the NPL, if my understanding of the NSW and QLD context is correct there appears more emphasis on the Senior teams and creating a commercially viable competition that is the face of the state. The FFV version also harps back to the failed "Summer League" plan which morphed into the Victorian Champions League (VCL) which became a glorified junior competition that after 5 seasons became tired and boring. A common theme from children was to experience once and that seem to satisfy most. But even the "Summer League" plans had the Senior Clubs as the key aspect of the competition, it does not appear so at this moment in time. Quote:Clearly one of the key consequences will be that the current VPL competition will change. The emphasis will not be on the club and the fan who comes to watch their VPL senior team. It will be on the development of young talent. I have to agree that this will be a consequence of the change in competition in Victoria. By extension this will also mean that a Senior Competition will most likely be commercially unviable if not financially weak and unsatble. A key component of the NPLV is to drive down player payments, but by doing this what is the tipping point that the competition has no value for emerging players? Does this mean emerging players once completing an "apprentiship" at U18 and U20 level will seek out "Community Clubs" for remuneration and competition. Could they also seek financial remuneration by joining clubs in a "rebel" Summer Competition? Lets not forget the roots of the FFV are one of being a rebel organisation nearly 60 years later it is still going. Quote:Another consequence will probably be that the quality of the senior squads/teams will suffer over the short to mid term because of the point system. We will lose experienced players to the lower divisions. But I think with time this will come around again and perhaps surpass what we have today because the quality coming through will improve and cannot all go to the A-League, even in an expanded form. The talent of the pool of top tier state players will, over time, get much better even if they are younger. Agree with this assumption the only question remains is there or will there be an alternative for players in a the "Communit" Competition or Rebel "Competition" which you have not accounted for. To compete the FFV might have to loosen restrictions on the PPS and VISA players and maybe redirect funds from Community Clubs and Players to prop up the "Elite Clubs". Or change the corporate structure rules to allow for private investment. Quote:So in the end what does this all mean?
The new elite NPLV clubs will be different beasts to the current VPL clubs with a different focus. Or at least two very distinct areas of focus. The quality of senior team football may/will suffer in the initial phase but will probablycome back better in time. Agree again as I have made note of in my comments "Probably" still means that everything else stays static around the NPLV. If the Community Clubs have higher revenue streams to the NPLV they can recruit the players secondly if the Community Clubs create a 12 or 24 team Super Summer League under an independant soccer body like Vicsoccer or a new Association with no FFV or FFA or FIFA ties. There is already a precedent of FFV CLubs fielding teams in these type of competitions simultaneously I think a court of law would find it difficult to support the FFV kicking them out. Quote:The clubs who opted out will unfortunately play no role in making it a better process over the next few years and in correcting the NPLV's initial shortcomings. In time I think they will probably regret their decision and their members will not forgive them. The FFV already stated there is a cap on the number of possible entrants of 24 teams and I would suggest to you there are a couple of VPL Clubs let alone State One Clubs that wether they apply or not would be very unlikely to be accepted. And I think one would Dandenong Thunder. So the talk of who applys and in the cases raised who doesn't of noe real consequence anyway. And lets face it the FFV's track record in these things hasn't been the best over the years so it is oppurtunity for them to get it right as well. There is a three year moratorium on new licences any way so it will offer clubs reluctant to join the oppurtunity to see how it all goes. Dean Hennessy a VPL Coach offered his point of view on Mfootball which was very interesting; Most coaches in the VPL have introduced young players into senior football, and I know all of them are proud of this when it happens. There are a number of variables that a coach will need to assess when deciding if it is the time is right to introduce a young player into the system. The player must have the ability to compete physically at VPL level, with a duty of care in mind, and be good enough to play at that level based on their current form – in other words they have earned the right to be picked. Once picked, the next hurdle is trying to keep their place in the team. Most players learn a certain amount from their coaches, but I believe that most of the education in a young player’s development comes from his team mates (especially the experienced players) and the actual opponents themselves. If this opinion is agreed by most of the people within the game then the new format has some major flaws. The new league will penalise clubs for signing players who are over 25-years-old. However, when I look back when I played I actually thought this stage of my career was when I was at my peak. So too were my opponents, because we had experience and had been at that level for six-seven seasons. So to encourage clubs to stop signing players 26-years-old and over will dilute teams dramatically and I believe the development of the young players will be affected enormously. They simply won’t be learning from experienced team mates and opponents.http://www.mfootball.com.au/dean-hennessey-is-the-nplv-whats-best-for-our-young-players/What concerns most in Victoria is how the FFV brains trust is thinking and what their vision is for the game here is a quote from an article with former FFV Director Joe Perri and his thoughts on the game here. Former Football Federation Victoria (FFV) Board member Joe Perri believes that football (soccer) would benefit immensely if the Federation and community-based clubs reviewed the participatory models and abandoned the senior team competition.
Joe Perri firmly believes that the sport and the Federation’s ambitions would be better served if the competition was restructured and the men and women’s senior / reserves leagues were replaced with ongoing age groups i.e. Under 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, and so on.
“In order to harness opportunity requires the FFV to take a more proactive approach that demands courage and leadership to challenge traditional conventions, including the local suburban club model and senior team ceiling. Failing to do so will be to the long term detriment of the very players, stakeholders and the sport that the Federation is entrusted to administer and oversee,” concluded Joe Perri. http://www.goalweekly.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=6894:pre-adult-teenagers-continue-to-pay-the-price-for-ffv’s-outdated-senior-competition-model&Itemid=134 I think all posters can see why many are concerned with the direction of the game here when the FFV Board of Directors are think along the above lines.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Priest, SydneyCroatia,
It aint over until the fat lady sings guys.
If there is enough desire from the clubs that put in an EOI I believe that things can change if they need to. And with a new CEO there is a ready-made, face-saving way to do it. No one can say, "You said you wouldn't change". So if you want to have a chance to push for change then inside is where you needed to be. From the outside little will be achieved....not least because you will be seen as recalcitrant.
It's even harder to understand when one considers that there was nothing about the EOI that tied you down to any further obligations of any sort.
I don't buy the line that the Knights didn't have the resources to be part of the next phase of the process.
Don't get me wrong, you may be right that nothing will change. But it's a big risk they've taken.
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Priest
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Blackmissionary
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:If there is enough desire from the clubs that put in an EOI I believe that things can change if they need to. And with a new CEO there is a ready-made, face-saving way to do it. No one can say, "You said you wouldn't change". So if you want to have a chance to push for change then inside is where you needed to be. From the outside little will be achieved....not least because you will be seen as recalcitrant. The worry that a lot of clubs have, is that despite all the consultation the FFV has done over the past 12-18 months, they've actually changed very little in what they want as their criteria. Both the interim CEO Peter Gome and the person he replaced Mark Rendell insisted that the criteria as the FFV wanted to apply it would not be changed. Of course, there is always the chance that things could change, but the real concern here is not with the individual CEO at any given time, but with the institutional ideology that the FFV has, which pushes toward a certain way of doing things. The FFV's NPLV is not merely a reaction to the FFA's NCR recommendations, but an attempt to force through the failed VCL concept whether anyone thinks it's a good idea or not. And while it's an easy decision for perhaps the vast majority of clubs to not enter, the clubs that are at the top of the tree are left with a kind of Sophie's choice, take a huge gamble by participating in this unproven model, or risk being left to rot for at least three years in an amateur competition.
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SydneyCroatia
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:Priest, SydneyCroatia,
It aint over until the fat lady sings guys.
If there is enough desire from the clubs that put in an EOI I believe that things can change if they need to. And with a new CEO there is a ready-made, face-saving way to do it. No one can say, "You said you wouldn't change". So if you want to have a chance to push for change then inside is where you needed to be. From the outside little will be achieved....not least because you will be seen as recalcitrant.
It's even harder to understand when one considers that there was nothing about the EOI that tied you down to any further obligations of any sort.
I don't buy the line that the Knights didn't have the resources to be part of the next phase of the process.
Don't get me wrong, you may be right that nothing will change. But it's a big risk they've taken. You're basically implying that the FFV cant be trusted. Why would anyone put the future in the hands of people who say one thing and then do another? Especially one who has a track record of poor financial management, poor administration, poor marketing and promotion of its 'Premier' competition etc. You're being asked to make a huge financial commitment over the next 3 years to an organisation that is basically saying - we dont know how this will work, we dont know who will be in it, we dont know how it will look, we dont know how you will be able to recoup the increased operational costs, we certainly havent given you any reason in the last 5/10 years to put this much faith in us, but just do it anyway because it looks sexy on paper. I didn't say the Knights didnt have the resources, I simply said that they're better off focusing their resources on other things instead of worrying about an application process for a competition neither the board nor their members are keen on for a wide variety of reasons
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Steven of Balwyn
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A tough choice indeed but what's the alternative? Youth development in VIC is piss poor, ad-hoc, hit and miss stuff.
Something has to give.The NPLV is one serious attempt which at least makes logical sense.
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Benjamin
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:A tough choice indeed but what's the alternative? Youth development in VIC is piss poor, ad-hoc, hit and miss stuff.
Something has to give.The NPLV is one serious attempt which at least makes logical sense. Genuine consultation between the governing body and the clubs?
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Arthur
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Reading through past documents such as the Crawford Report, the NSL Taskforce Report and the APL report, there is much said about the realtionship between the major competition and the administrative body.
It is a constantly repeated theme how a League should be self administered and seperate from the governing body to succeed.
The FFV has yet to present a business plan or marketing plan to clubs or the wider community on how the competition will be marketed or presented.
In any busisness process this must be a concern to club decision makers wether they have submitted an EOI or not.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Arthur do you believe that the competence exists within the club structures at VPL and State 1 and 2 in order to run the leagues themselves? I am not confident that the level is there across the board to do this at this time. In my view we simply can't avoid the governing body running the leagues at this time.
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Priest
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How the fuck would you know? Do you personally know every board member of every VPL club? I can guarantee you, that the clubs would run the league 1000 times better than the FFV is at the moment.
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Arthur
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:Arthur do you believe that the competence exists within the club structures at VPL and State 1 and 2 in order to run the leagues themselves? I am not confident that the level is there across the board to do this at this time. In my view we simply can't avoid the governing body running the leagues at this time. Firstly I refer to the thinking of the former FFV Board member who believes this Joe Perri firmly believes that the sport and the Federation’s ambitions would be better served if the competition was restructured and the men and women’s senior / reserves leagues were replaced with ongoing age groups i.e. Under 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, and so on.and I ask you is the FFV have the competence to run the NPLV? Secondly an independant Board and staff could be appointed to run the NPLV if the FFV had the concerns of the competition at heart and operated with a greater level of humbleness.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Priest wrote:How the fuck would you know? Do you personally know every board member of every VPL club? I can guarantee you, that the clubs would run the league 1000 times better than the FFV is at the moment. You're very angry Priest. You need to stay calm if you're going to try to get your point across. You don't know me so you don't know who and how much I know. Don't make assumptions. I know enough to know that the competencies aren't there. It's not enough for some clubs to be at the required level. It needs to be across the board and it isn't. If they were up to it then the clubs would have taken over long ago. They haven't because they can't. Let's see if your mates mount a new alternative league and how long they can run it before it collapses. I'm prepared to take my hat off to them and to eat humble pie here on this forum if it ever happens...but we all know it won't don't we. This is what really upsets you, but you'll never admit it. And let me make it very clear that I am a VPL supporter and go to many matches of my club and I support no A-League outfit. It's just that I can admit the reality of the situation and the need for a new vision and strategy.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Arthur wrote:Steven of Balwyn wrote:Arthur do you believe that the competence exists within the club structures at VPL and State 1 and 2 in order to run the leagues themselves? I am not confident that the level is there across the board to do this at this time. In my view we simply can't avoid the governing body running the leagues at this time. Firstly I refer to the thinking of the former FFV Board member who believes this Joe Perri firmly believes that the sport and the Federation’s ambitions would be better served if the competition was restructured and the men and women’s senior / reserves leagues were replaced with ongoing age groups i.e. Under 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, and so on.and I ask you is the FFV have the competence to run the NPLV? Secondly an independant Board and staff could be appointed to run the NPLV if the FFV had the concerns of the competition at heart and operated with a greater level of humbleness. Arthur, I don't know what Perri is talking about. On face value it seems worrying but he is one person, not the whole FFV Board. Secondly, you seem to be suggesting we create another FFV to replace the current FFV. And what happens when that board starts to develop new and fancy ideas we don't like? We go for another league with and FFV Mk III?
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Priest
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Once again I have been tricked into speaking to a brick wall ](*,)
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Benjamin
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:Arthur wrote:Steven of Balwyn wrote:Arthur do you believe that the competence exists within the club structures at VPL and State 1 and 2 in order to run the leagues themselves? I am not confident that the level is there across the board to do this at this time. In my view we simply can't avoid the governing body running the leagues at this time. Firstly I refer to the thinking of the former FFV Board member who believes this Joe Perri firmly believes that the sport and the Federation’s ambitions would be better served if the competition was restructured and the men and women’s senior / reserves leagues were replaced with ongoing age groups i.e. Under 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, and so on.and I ask you is the FFV have the competence to run the NPLV? Secondly an independant Board and staff could be appointed to run the NPLV if the FFV had the concerns of the competition at heart and operated with a greater level of humbleness. Arthur, I don't know what Perri is talking about. On face value it seems worrying but he is one person, not the whole FFV Board. Secondly, you seem to be suggesting we create another FFV to replace the current FFV. And what happens when that board starts to develop new and fancy ideas we don't like? We go for another league with and FFV Mk III? The independent board running the league should be accountable to the clubs within that league - that seems to be the key problem with the FFV at the moment - and it's where all of the current problems come from... The FFV make decisions, all the clubs complain, the FFV steam on - and things get worse... Maybe that's because the FFV decisions are bad, maybe it's because the clubs are overly resistant - but the way to sort this out is through open discussion and mediation. Nothing is ever solved by simply stonewalling.
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Arthur
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Steven of Balwyn wrote: Arthur, I don't know what Perri is talking about.On face value it seems worrying but he is one person, not the whole FFV Board.
Thats the ramblings of a FFV Director who just stepped down, don't feel left out cause no-one else knows what his talking about. But he did have direct involvement in the the FFV's version of the NPL. Which is the issue at hand.
[quote]Secondly, you seem to be suggesting we create another FFV to replace the current FFV. And what happens when that board starts to develop new and fancy ideas we don't like? We go for another league with and FFV Mk III?
No that is not what I'm asking for, in reference to taskforce documents an idependant board to operate the league competition revolves around FFV participation, club participation and independant expert board member appointments. Obviously operating under a set of guidelines. I beleivet this to a reasonable option to help make the competion Commercially viable and Commercially attractive. One of my major arguements with my own club, SMFC has always been that for the club to be the major developer of talent (and for any club for that matter) it is necessary to have development squads paying ZERO dollars. Along with a solid coaching staff it is the only way to attract the best emerging talent to the club. Budgets being prepared now to would suggest the junior operational costs for the NPLV will range from $200K to over $350K. As you stated the parents will bare this cost. Without a commercially successful competition with top down revenue streams to subsidise these costs, the quality of player development will not change and I believe the quality of juniors comming through the competition will be no better or worse as drop out rates will probably be still be high after U16 level and above. The senior competition will most likely be of a quality that would commpare with the current State 2 or 3 and most of the more talented players crossing over to the Community Clubs competition. Edited by Arthur: 6/6/2013 10:32:24 AM
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Arthur
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Quote:Galaxy NPLV bid spurred by youth By Donald Sutherland June 6, 2013 Leave a comment
Greater Geelong Galaxy Chairman Joe Madunic says he is motivated by the fact local junior footballers could look elsewhere for elite competition should his consortium be unsuccessful in its National Premier League Victoria (NPLV) application.
Speaking exclusively to MFootball, Mr Madunic also said his entity has received support from “traditional” clubs within the local region, a stance quite different from the metropolitan area.
“We’re a new entity, and we’re working towards getting a united bid for Geelong and we owe it to our kids basically to say hey, we’re going to do this for you guys so we can nurture talent and nurture good coaches and nurture good football in our region so we don’t miss the boat and be left behind,” Mr Madunic said.
“That’s probably one of the major reasons why we are actually going ahead with this bid and I think we’re getting a lot of support because of it.
“I think everyone is coming to the realisation that being excluded out of the NPL will pretty much shut the gate in terms of the next three years of football development in Geelong.”
The Galaxy chairman outlined the landscape of Geelong’s football community, where the ‘big’ sides play in FFV metropolitan competitions, saying that if a Geelong side wasn’t accepted into Victoria’s top tier, young footballers would go elsewhere.
“Over the journey, the local competition has been up and down. Most clubs who are FFV affiliated or clubs that are basically playing in Melbourne as a senior club try to get their juniors clubs through at some stage, and that’s been pretty good for player development but it’s got to a stage now where with the new NPL requirements that juniors will not be allowed to play in Melbourne as of 2014.
“In the presentation slides from the FFV … I think on page 24, [it says] all regional clubs will not be allowed to put in teams into the Melbourne competition.
“So teams like Ballarat Red Devils, if they don’t get a license in the NPL, all their juniors would have to go back and play in the Ballarat competition. Or if Geelong didn’t get a license in the NPL, all our kids would have to go back and play in the Geelong competition.
“Traditionally what’s happened in the past when Geelong teams haven’t been allowed to play in Melbourne, players will go up the highway and find a club in the western suburbs somewhere where they can ply their trade and even some coaches have moved up the highway.”
Mr Madunic, who is a passionate supporter of North Geelong Warriors, said he was empathetic to particular metropolitan clubs who have snubbed the new competition due to the licence structure.
“It is a bit of a cultural change, it’s moving away from tradition but they’ve got the opportunity to work out if they want to keep their traditional club’s name, colours, heritage, history, culture – whatever you want to name it.
“Some clubs feel that their clubs culture and tradition are above the NPL, and in some cases, I do agree with them. Melbourne Knights – 60 years of history, North Geelong – 45 years of history, do they want to put all their eggs in one basket and go in a new direction? That’s a big call to make.
“A lot of those metro clubs … the Victorian Premier League clubs, they’ve been clubs for a long, long time. You’re talking about the Oakleighs, you’re talking about the South Melbourne Football Club, you’re talking about the Melbourne Knights, you’re talking about clubs who have been around ever since post-war migration in Australia.
“They’ve got a lot of tradition; they’ve produced a lot of great players – not just for Victoria but also for Australia. So I can’t say much for them, I can’t speak on their behalf but I do understand why. I honestly, as an individual, do understand why they might not want to take the plunge into the NPL because they’re protecting the community club that they are.”
Madunic, who was also secretary at North Geelong Warriors when they were State Champions, acknowledged the financial burden an NPLV license could incur, but said it was something his group had to address in order to provide opportunities for the young Geelong-based footballers.
“The other side of it is the cost factor and charging fees of up to seventeen hundred dollars,” Mr Madunic said.
“Yeah, it is a concern for some clubs, and in the climate of sport and finding dollars through sponsorship – yeah, they are challenges but they are challenges that we in Geelong definitely have to have a decent crack at because if you don’t have a decent crack at it, like I said, we don’t want to be left in the wilderness and we’ll have a mass exodus of players going up the highway to chase their dreams.
“We’re working through that (sponsorship) at the moment. We’re talking with external stakeholders; we’re working with internal stakeholders. We have got a little bit of backing from the local region within our organisations here.
“We’re pretty confident that we can cover the criteria that’s there. We’ll know a little bit more once the expressions close … and we’ll know a little bit more in the next phase once they start releasing more information about the application process itself and what the FFV can do to help us in a lot of the strategic areas.”
The chairman of the bid also revealed that the Greater Geelong Galaxy identity, which was born out of the Victorian Champions League, would exist for one season before a vote would be put to its members to change.
“This new entity, if we do get the NPL, will run for one year or basically for one cycle. Once the membership and the governance is up, then the members will decide which way they want to go in terms of ownership, in terms of colours, in terms of name, in terms of the board structure and things like that.
“So we’re doing this as an interim measure until the governance up and going, until we get the membership base up, and until we get an AGM where obviously the members will vote what direction they want to take the NPL licence if we are successful in getting one.”
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Priest
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Hopefully Surf Coast and Galaxy both get in. Watch them Socceroos roll in =p~
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paladisious
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Arthur wrote:[quote]“In the presentation slides from the FFV … I think on page 24, [it says] all regional clubs will not be allowed to put in teams into the Melbourne competition.
“So teams like Ballarat Red Devils, if they don’t get a license in the NPL, all their juniors would have to go back and play in the Ballarat competition. Or if Geelong didn’t get a license in the NPL, all our kids would have to go back and play in the Geelong competition. Well that is just fucking retarded. Ballarat Red Devils, North Geelong Warriors, Morwell Pegasus, etc. have been part of the metro pyramid for donks. Why undo all that work?
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Steven of Balwyn
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Priest wrote:Hopefully Surf Coast and Galaxy both get in. Watch them Socceroos roll in =p~ Well done Priest. You've now shown yourself to be the arrogant snob I suspected you were. At least everyone can now see what you really stand for....certainly not the improvement of football across the board. Basically you have your vested interests (presumably your old club) and that's where you're coming from. That's cool. Just don't profess to care about the good of football. No need for further comment from you mate.
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Arthur
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paladisious wrote:Quote:[quote]“In the presentation slides from the FFV … I think on page 24, [it says] all regional clubs will not be allowed to put in teams into the Melbourne competition.
“So teams like Ballarat Red Devils, if they don’t get a license in the NPL, all their juniors would have to go back and play in the Ballarat competition. Or if Geelong didn’t get a license in the NPL, all our kids would have to go back and play in the Geelong competition. Well that is just fucking retarded. Ballarat Red Devils, North Geelong Warriors, Morwell Pegasus, etc. have been part of the metro pyramid for donks. Why undo all that work? Thats probably a lessor known conditions the FFV has placed on the "revolutionary" changes they are implementing. It probably not a good idea especially as Gippsland will not have representation in the NPL due to lack of interest but also Warrgul Utd and Morwell Pegasus will be pushed out of the Metro Community leagues thus making the games development at a decent playing standard uncertain.
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paladisious
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Arthur wrote:paladisious wrote:Quote:[quote]“In the presentation slides from the FFV … I think on page 24, [it says] all regional clubs will not be allowed to put in teams into the Melbourne competition.
“So teams like Ballarat Red Devils, if they don’t get a license in the NPL, all their juniors would have to go back and play in the Ballarat competition. Or if Geelong didn’t get a license in the NPL, all our kids would have to go back and play in the Geelong competition. Well that is just fucking retarded. Ballarat Red Devils, North Geelong Warriors, Morwell Pegasus, etc. have been part of the metro pyramid for donks. Why undo all that work? Thats probably a lessor known conditions the FFV has placed on the "revolutionary" changes they are implementing. It probably not a good idea especially as Gippsland will not have representation in the NPL due to lack of interest but also Warrgul Utd and Morwell Pegasus will be pushed out of the Metro Community leagues thus making the games development at a decent playing standard uncertain. As FFV's plan is for the NPL to serve player development 100% and watchable, commercially viable club football 0%, cutting off the non-metro areas is even more retarded a decision. The NPL will surely still go ahead, but hopefully some of these terrible, terrible ideas are fixed before the damage is irreparable.
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SydneyCroatia
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It's clearly a thinly-veiled attempt at blackmailing regional clubs into submitting expressions of interest
Sad.
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SydneyCroatia
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:Priest wrote:Hopefully Surf Coast and Galaxy both get in. Watch them Socceroos roll in =p~ Well done Priest. You've now shown yourself to be the arrogant snob I suspected you were. At least everyone can now see what you really stand for....certainly not the improvement of football across the board. Basically you have your vested interests (presumably your old club) and that's where you're coming from. That's cool. Just don't profess to care about the good of football. No need for further comment from you mate. Heaven forbid that someone might have their club's best interest at heart. My club always comes first. I dont understand why anyone would be willing to sacrifice their club for the so-called "greater good" If that's the case, then it's not really your club... just someone you follow out of convenience
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Priest
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:lol: Oh Steven..
No fucking idea what, so, ever.
You going to tell me there is a talent pool large enough to service both Surf Coast and Galaxy?
Tell me which club will be based in the Western Suburbs? And which Class A facility will the play out of? Yeah before you pull that one, if you're going to have clubs 'propose' they will upgrade to Class A within 3 years, when everyone knows they won't but they are still prepared to bend the criteria for them, then why the fuck have a criteria at all?
Over to you, o wise one.. \:d/
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Benjamin
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SydneyCroatia wrote:Steven of Balwyn wrote:Priest wrote:Hopefully Surf Coast and Galaxy both get in. Watch them Socceroos roll in =p~ Well done Priest. You've now shown yourself to be the arrogant snob I suspected you were. At least everyone can now see what you really stand for....certainly not the improvement of football across the board. Basically you have your vested interests (presumably your old club) and that's where you're coming from. That's cool. Just don't profess to care about the good of football. No need for further comment from you mate. Heaven forbid that someone might have their club's best interest at heart. My club always comes first. I dont understand why anyone would be willing to sacrifice their club for the so-called "greater good" If that's the case, then it's not really your club... just someone you follow out of convenience I always liked you SydCro... This comment could be pasted into soooooo many threads on 442 over the last few years.
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cro69
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The NPL submission is closed to 98% of clubs, some clubs are above the cut off,and the FFV are sucking up to them as we speak.Shambles this new guy will make no difference, what needs to happen is the whole board of FFV needs to be sacked and removed.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Of course. Of course. The only way to support your club is the way YOU support your clubs. That there are other perspectives and interpretations of support would be hard for you guys to fathom because for you there seems to only be one way...your way.
For the record I do support my club strongly but I see this support in a much wider context than you and I can understand a few things about trends and numbers and what these mean for the future of my club within the current set up.....a slow and miserable death, that's what. And the same applies to your clubs. Have no illusions about that. Unless we radically improve the whole picture then trying to support your club is like trying to make a hole in water.
You've got to see your club and its evolution within the wider context of the needs of football in the Australian reality. It's the whole puzzle that matters and not any one piece on its own.
But of course that's hard to see for one-eyed supporters....something I have never been and never will be. I bet you guys were the ones screaming abuse at each other from opposite stands in the 80's and 90's or at least look back on those days with nostalgia.
Well we're moving on now boys. Like it or not.
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Priest
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:lol: Oh Steven #-o
Correct me if I am wrong, but most people want to see their club win? And the last time I checked, that wasn't a crime. And certainly not frowned upon in pretty much every other country in the world like it is starting to be here. If nurturing young players is what you want you see as success from your club, jump on board the AIS. Or better yet, the NTC. :lol:
I don't think anyone disagrees that the game in Victoria needs big changes to move forward, but the NPLV is the not the way to go about it. Please enlighten us on how the NPLV will help your club? The NPLV is designed for one thing and one thing only. To churn out quality players, which in my opinion will not produce more quality players than the VPL does now.
Clubs may be destined for a slow miserable death, but committing suicide with the NPLV is not the alternative we are after.
But of course you will see this response as the views of a one eyed supporter (something that you never have been I might add, God bless..) who only cares about their own club and not the game as a whole. :)
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SydneyCroatia
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"A slow, miserable death" is better than suicide.
Please explain how the new competition will prolong the lives of clubs... keep in mind the huge cost increases and no evidence of any new revenue streams. Will it be from transfer fees for the hundreds of export quality juniors the new set up produces?
Analysing the criteria properly is not being a one-eyed supporter. It's just the normal way to run an organisation. You're clearly not a one-eyed supporter, it's hard to be one-eyed when you blindly follow whatever you're told is 'for the good of the game'
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SydneyCroatia
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Oh and I don't think anyone has claimed that change is necessary. Vic clubs have been screaming for it for years now... but change for the sake of change us counterproductive
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Arthur
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SydneyCroatia wrote:Oh and I don't think anyone has claimed that change is necessary. Vic clubs have been screaming for it for years now... but change for the sake of change us counterproductive The FFV has called it a "revolution". Benjamin wrote:SydneyCroatia wrote:Steven of Balwyn wrote:Priest wrote:Hopefully Surf Coast and Galaxy both get in. Watch them Socceroos roll in =p~ Well done Priest. You've now shown yourself to be the arrogant snob I suspected you were. At least everyone can now see what you really stand for....certainly not the improvement of football across the board. Basically you have your vested interests (presumably your old club) and that's where you're coming from. That's cool. Just don't profess to care about the good of football. No need for further comment from you mate. Heaven forbid that someone might have their club's best interest at heart. My club always comes first. I dont understand why anyone would be willing to sacrifice their club for the so-called "greater good"If that's the case, then it's not really your club... just someone you follow out of convenience I always liked you SydCro... This comment could be pasted into soooooo many threads on 442 over the last few years. But not all Clubs are equal! Some Clubs (franchises) are more eqal than others. cro69 wrote:The NPL submission is closed to 98% of clubs, some clubs are above the cut off,and the FFV are sucking up to them as we speak.Shambles this new guy will make no difference, what needs to happen is the whole board of FFV needs to be sacked and removed. Once again I fail to understand your comments and their relevance at this point. And I think we are supporting the same point of view.:shock:
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Arthur
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:Of course. Of course. The only way to support your club is the way YOU support your clubs. That there are other perspectives and interpretations of support would be hard for you guys to fathom because for you there seems to only be one way...your way.
For the record I do support my club strongly but I see this support in a much wider context than you and I can understand a few things about trends and numbers and what these mean for the future of my club within the current set up.....a slow and miserable death, that's what. And the same applies to your clubs. Have no illusions about that. Unless we radically improve the whole picture then trying to support your club is like trying to make a hole in water.
You've got to see your club and its evolution within the wider context of the needs of football in the Australian reality. It's the whole puzzle that matters and not any one piece on its own.
But of course that's hard to see for one-eyed supporters....something I have never been and never will be. I bet you guys were the ones screaming abuse at each other from opposite stands in the 80's and 90's or at least look back on those days with nostalgia.
Well we're moving on now boys. Like it or not. While I cannot speak for others on this forum and the position they take on the NPLV I can only state my own. Nor the way they communicated with you. I also want to provide the people outside of Victoria a better idea of the problems faced here and how poor decision making has cost us dearly. I do agree with the FFA concept of the NPL, a concept to provide a better enviroment for player development and Club Governance. I do not agree with the FFV's version of the NPL & NCR, it has undertones of a slash and burn agenda to rid the FFV once and for all of intransient Clubs and individuals so that the sport can be run according to the FFV's vision. My major concern is that this approach will not only see the end of any hope of a reasonable "Second Tier" competition in Victoria, but may also affect the quality of junior development from which we may lose a generation of players. My concerns still revolve around the 2008 Summer League Model developed by the FFV which failed in terms of Senior mens and womens competitions. The Senior Competitions were planned to fund the junior comps and provide the FFV with well over $1.2Mill in revenues annually. Suffice to say it failed on that basis alone with the Summer league becomming the Victorian Champions league a glorified junior competition that was only successful because of restrictive practices. Those being only players paricipating in the VCL would be open for selection to state teams and NTC teams (which led to NYL for MVFC or AIS selction or Aus team selection). So talented players had to do it whether they liked it or not and whether it was of benefit or not. Those talented players who did not participate would locked out. (This may not have happened in practice as the FFV has consistently made exceptions for the few) During the five years of VCL the debate on the success of developing talented players can be measured by the low numbers of Victorians in Aus youth teams, at the AIS, the poor performance at Nationals and the low uptake of Victorians into HAL NYL teams (the MVFC & MHFC Vic youth players are generally there to make up numbers the NYL boys from interstate get the Senior Oppurtunities). While at the same time the junior Club competitions were diluted, seeing the removal of Super league (the top junior comp for each age group diveded into two divisions of North West and Sout East) and the four regional competitions now diveded into 8 zones. Teams that had been at Super league and A standard were now put with C and D division teams in a regionalised comp that was lopsided to say the least. And a model that we are still to recover from. The saving grace has been the SAP and Skillaroo programs an FFA initiative and one the FFV could replicate and expand but has not yet expects the NPL Clubs to do so. It with background that we now have the FFV add on's to the FFA's NPL. Selection to the NPL is to be regionalised and not based on commercial decisions such as demographics, ability or past management practice. Player recruitment is restricted by boundaries. Junior Players will not have the ability to join the NPL Club of their choice. The FFV rational being that all NPL Clubs willoffer the same experience and level of coaching in a standardised format. The PPS has been poorly explained. FFV requires clubs to have Mens, Womens, boys and girls to be under the umbrella of one club. This also presents a whole range of issues. The Corporate structure is restricted to Incorporated Associations in NSW a Club can chose while in Qld it was a requirement to be a Company which provides for higher standards of accounting and reporting Also provides for investment capital especially with new start ups that the FFV is seeking. The FFV selection process is not concerned with playing standards of the Senior competition in the Short to medium term and is prepared to throw clubs with out the playing experience or quality into the competition. Especially where regional clubs are concerned. This will also filter down to the juniors where the country teams were generally outclassed in the VCL. In NSW an Elite and Intermediate pathway was established which should be the case in Victoria allowing country clubs to grow into the competition. The FFV has stated that it will do what is necessary to make the NPLV the major competition including stiffling any success that a community club or community competition may have. The FFV has provided no marketing plans on how they will promote the League. Going by history with the VPL the FFV has done minimal promotion and what has been done has been ad hoc, inconsistent and even vindictive. (FFV removed funding to Goal Weekly Newspaper as itb had a couple of critical articles in it.) What has concerned most clubs has been the expected costs of participation especially "Start Up" and the uncertainty of availability facilities for a 10 month junior competition. None of these issues have been dealt with by the FFV in a business like manner. In fact we could have a debate on whether or not the FFV actually understands how clubs run, at all levels, the costs financially and for volunteers and for parents and for coaches. Is there any wonder clubs are cautious? In "Club Land" the term used by FFV staff to describe their constiuancy or "Customers" there are about 170 odd clubs, 44 have tabled an expression of interest that means 126 clubs have not. Many are happy to be right were they are some that have the capacity have not applied because they can afford to wait 3 years and see what happens. While still others want to be part of this process others are waiting for more detail. Certainly there are interesting times ahead. Edited by Arthur: 7/6/2013 12:06:26 PM
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Priest
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Arthur you are just a one eyed supporter who only cares about his club and would yell things across the stand in the 80s and 90s :lol:
As a man that is clearly not one eyed said, Well we're moving on now boys. Like it or not. (Not a very one eyed comment) :lol: :-$
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Capac
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Thank you Arthur. As someone not involved it's good to have someone explain the situation rather than just write a sarcastic response.
edit: not everyone, it's just annoying having to wade through a bunch of insults and bitching
Edited by capac: 7/6/2013 01:31:38 PM
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Benjamin
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Capac wrote:Thank you Arthur. As someone not involved it's good to have someone explain the situation rather than just write a sarcastic response.
edit: not everyone, it's just annoying having to wade through a bunch of insults and bitching Certain forum members dismiss him and anything he says immediately because he happens to follow South Melbourne - but the reality is you'll struggle to find a more informed poster on the forum when it comes to youth development issues within Victoria.
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Arthur
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Benjamin wrote:Capac wrote:Thank you Arthur. As someone not involved it's good to have someone explain the situation rather than just write a sarcastic response.
edit: not everyone, it's just annoying having to wade through a bunch of insults and bitching Certain forum members dismiss him and anything he says immediately because he happens to follow South Melbourne - but the reality is you'll struggle to find a more informed poster on the forum when it comes to youth development issues within Victoria. You're making me blush Benjamin.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Arthur wrote:Steven of Balwyn wrote:Of course. Of course. The only way to support your club is the way YOU support your clubs. That there are other perspectives and interpretations of support would be hard for you guys to fathom because for you there seems to only be one way...your way.
For the record I do support my club strongly but I see this support in a much wider context than you and I can understand a few things about trends and numbers and what these mean for the future of my club within the current set up.....a slow and miserable death, that's what. And the same applies to your clubs. Have no illusions about that. Unless we radically improve the whole picture then trying to support your club is like trying to make a hole in water.
You've got to see your club and its evolution within the wider context of the needs of football in the Australian reality. It's the whole puzzle that matters and not any one piece on its own.
But of course that's hard to see for one-eyed supporters....something I have never been and never will be. I bet you guys were the ones screaming abuse at each other from opposite stands in the 80's and 90's or at least look back on those days with nostalgia.
Well we're moving on now boys. Like it or not. While I cannot speak for others on this forum and the position they take on the NPLV I can only state my own. Nor the way they communicated with you. I also want to provide the people outside of Victoria a better idea of the problems faced here and how poor decision making has cost us dearly. I do agree with the FFA concept of the NPL, a concept to provide a better enviroment for player development and Club Governance. I do not agree with the FFV's version of the NPL & NCR, it has undertones of a slash and burn agenda to rid the FFV once and for all of intransient Clubs and individuals so that the sport can be run according to the FFV's vision. My major concern is that this approach will not only see the end of any hope of a reasonable "Second Tier" competition in Victoria, but may also affect the quality of junior development from which we may lose a generation of players. My concerns still revolve around the 2008 Summer League Model developed by the FFV which failed in terms of Senior mens and womens competitions. The Senior Competitions were planned to fund the junior comps and provide the FFV with well over $1.2Mill in revenues annually. Suffice to say it failed on that basis alone with the Summer league becomming the Victorian Champions league a glorified junior competition that was only successful because of restrictive practices. Those being only players paricipating in the VCL would be open for selection to state teams and NTC teams (which led to NYL for MVFC or AIS selction or Aus team selection). So talented players had to do it whether they liked it or not and whether it was of benefit or not. Those talented players who did not participate would locked out. (This may not have happened in practice as the FFV has consistently made exceptions for the few) During the five years of VCL the debate on the success of developing talented players can be measured by the low numbers of Victorians in Aus youth teams, at the AIS, the poor performance at Nationals and the low uptake of Victorians into HAL NYL teams (the MVFC & MHFC Vic youth players are generally there to make up numbers the NYL boys from interstate get the Senior Oppurtunities). While at the same time the junior Club competitions were diluted, seeing the removal of Super league (the top junior comp for each age group diveded into two divisions of North West and Sout East) and the four regional competitions now diveded into 8 zones. Teams that had been at Super league and A standard were now put with C and D division teams in a regionalised comp that was lopsided to say the least. And a model that we are still to recover from. The saving grace has been the SAP and Skillaroo programs an FFA initiative and one the FFV could replicate and expand but has not yet expects the NPL Clubs to do so. It with background that we now have the FFV add on's to the FFA's NPL. Selection to the NPL is to be regionalised and not based on commercial decisions such as demographics, ability or past management practice. Player recruitment is restricted by boundaries. Junior Players will not have the ability to join the NPL Club of their choice. The FFV rational being that all NPL Clubs willoffer the same experience and level of coaching in a standardised format. The PPS has been poorly explained. FFV requires clubs to have Mens, Womens, boys and girls to be under the umbrella of one club. This also presents a whole range of issues. The Corporate structure is restricted to Incorporated Associations in NSW a Club can chose while in Qld it was a requirement to be a Company which provides for higher standards of accounting and reporting Also provides for investment capital especially with new start ups that the FFV is seeking. The FFV selection process is not concerned with playing standards of the Senior competition in the Short to medium term and is prepared to throw clubs with out the playing experience or quality into the competition. Especially where regional clubs are concerned. This will also filter down to the juniors where the country teams were generally outclassed in the VCL. In NSW an Elite and Intermediate pathway was established which should be the case in Victoria allowing country clubs to grow into the competition. The FFV has stated that it will do what is necessary to make the NPLV the major competition including stiffling any success that a community club or community competition may have. The FFV has provided no marketing plans on how they will promote the League. Going by history with the VPL the FFV has done minimal promotion and what has been done has been ad hoc, inconsistent and even vindictive. (FFV removed funding to Goal Weekly Newspaper as itb had a couple of critical articles in it.) What has concerned most clubs has been the expected costs of participation especially "Start Up" and the uncertainty of availability facilities for a 10 month junior competition. None of these issues have been dealt with by the FFV in a business like manner. In fact we could have a debate on whether or not the FFV actually understands how clubs run, at all levels, the costs financially and for volunteers and for parents and for coaches. Is there any wonder clubs are cautious? In "Club Land" the term used by FFV staff to describe their constiuancy or "Customers" there are about 170 odd clubs, 44 have tabled an expression of interest that means 126 clubs have not. Many are happy to be right were they are some that have the capacity have not applied because they can afford to wait 3 years and see what happens. While still others want to be part of this process others are waiting for more detail. Certainly there are interesting times ahead. Edited by Arthur: 7/6/2013 12:06:26 PM Thanks very much for your comments Arthur. Very informative indeed. My comment was not directed at you. I should have been more specific. I was aiming at those who hurl abuse when they don't like what someone else is saying. I just wonder whether this is how they 'communicated' witht he FFV?!!? Interesting times ahead indeed. And let me be clear, although I clearly support the NPLV initiative I do understand that not all is right with it in the current form. I am sure it will be adjusted as we go forward.
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Arthur
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SoB i agree that there is no need for people to be abusive and I do realise that your comments where not directed at me.
SMFC is actually desperate to see a quality 2nd tier competition to help develop its brand, to help grow the club commercially and provide a quality enviroment for supporters.
The FFV's vision does'nt seem to match up with this expectation, while the FFV is starting to adopt an entrenched position and I don't think you will find much room for movement right now. The FFV may change many of its positions after the first season, by then the damage could be done to the competitions credibility, the FFV's credibility and the games credibility once again.
PS I'm also disappointed with a lack of critical thinking on many issues on this forum and the unbridled support for the FFV and FFA organisations that can be beauracratic and unthinking at times, more so the first.
Edited by Arthur: 7/6/2013 03:46:49 PM
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Steven of Balwyn
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SydneyCroatia wrote:"A slow, miserable death" is better than suicide.
Please explain how the new competition will prolong the lives of clubs... keep in mind the huge cost increases and no evidence of any new revenue streams. Will it be from transfer fees for the hundreds of export quality juniors the new set up produces?
Analysing the criteria properly is not being a one-eyed supporter. It's just the normal way to run an organisation. You're clearly not a one-eyed supporter, it's hard to be one-eyed when you blindly follow whatever you're told is 'for the good of the game' Are you sure that suicide is worse than a slow and miserable death? The world is full of death and rebirth! Personally I support voluntary euthanasia. Basic intentions/outcomes of the NPLV as I understand it: 1. Elite youth development funded more or less completely by the players themselves. Sad that this is necessary but I simply can't see how we are going to get 10hrs/wk quality training from accredited coaches and techincal directors in any other way at this time in Australia. That's what's done in private academies right now and that's what they charge and there is no consolidated, coherent pathway for these players. We should want to bring it under a group of elite clubs where the proper oversight and coordination can be put in place. So if done properly it should be cost neutral for the clubs (or close enough to it) and they get a steady stream of young and talented players. 2. Senior teams that provide outlets for their youth players coming through without being crammed full of backpackers and older players who simply are on their way down. Cost of the senior teams will drop due to PPS. This should be a big plus for most clubs. And the quality should improve in time because the programs will be producing much better players in greater numbers. And the fact that it is the main pathway forward should ensure the best players are coming to these clubs. These players will be looking to their futures and not looking to the few extra bucks another club could pay them in the state. Those that do aren't what we're looking for anyway. If the senior competition improves in quality then we also have the basis on which to improve the crowds. So. It's good for the players and good for the clubs and their longevity and shouldn't cost much more than it does now. Unfortunately the money will come from the young players and their parents but they're paying the same today in the academies, if you compare apples with apples. My biggest concern is ground availability and the links to the community clubs. This is where the FFV needs to do a lot of work still to explain who it will all work.
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Benjamin
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Steven of Balwyn wrote:Basic intentions/outcomes of the NPLV as I understand it:
1. Elite youth development funded more or less completely by the players themselves. Sad that this is necessary but I simply can't see how we are going to get 10hrs/wk quality training from accredited coaches and techincal directors in any other way at this time in Australia. That's what's done in private academies right now and that's what they charge and there is no consolidated, coherent pathway for these players. We should want to bring it under a group of elite clubs where the proper oversight and coordination can be put in place. So if done properly it should be cost neutral for the clubs (or close enough to it) and they get a steady stream of young and talented players.
The flipside of this is that fewer teams are allowed, but more hours are mandated, so the per player cost for the elite groups will rise - which will inevitably push the children of lower income families out of the elite system, which is tragic.
2. Senior teams that provide outlets for their youth players coming through without being crammed full of backpackers and older players who simply are on their way down. Cost of the senior teams will drop due to PPS. This should be a big plus for most clubs. And the quality should improve in time because the programs will be producing much better players in greater numbers. And the fact that it is the main pathway forward should ensure the best players are coming to these clubs. These players will be looking to their futures and not looking to the few extra bucks another club could pay them in the state. Those that do aren't what we're looking for anyway. If the senior competition improves in quality then we also have the basis on which to improve the crowds.
Agree we can get rid of the backpackers - however, don't think the PPS will have a significant influence on wages. Retaining players will be increasingly important, and players will be able to use this to drive their fees up.
So. It's good for the players and good for the clubs and their longevity and shouldn't cost much more than it does now. Unfortunately the money will come from the young players and their parents but they're paying the same today in the academies, if you compare apples with apples.
Again, this is only the case for the families that can afford to send their kids to private academies. There are large numbers of families in Australia who can barely afford to send their kids to clubs at the moment, let alone academies or next year's NPL fee charging clubs.
My biggest concern is ground availability and the links to the community clubs. This is where the FFV needs to do a lot of work still to explain who it will all work. I'm also concerned that the 18 yr old kid who can't get a game at Club A, will have his options of going to Club B drastically reduced by the PPS penalty applied to transferring players. One of the directors at one of the clubs which has already rejected the NPL mentioned to me a few weeks back that they would have no problem with first team quotas along the lines of "must always have 3 x u20 on the field" and "may have no more than two visa players", but the age restrictions across the squad, etc., are a serious concern for any team looking to compete in any league as just two injuries can seriously weaken a club.
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Steven of Balwyn
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Benjamin wrote:Steven of Balwyn wrote:Basic intentions/outcomes of the NPLV as I understand it:
1. Elite youth development funded more or less completely by the players themselves. Sad that this is necessary but I simply can't see how we are going to get 10hrs/wk quality training from accredited coaches and techincal directors in any other way at this time in Australia. That's what's done in private academies right now and that's what they charge and there is no consolidated, coherent pathway for these players. We should want to bring it under a group of elite clubs where the proper oversight and coordination can be put in place. So if done properly it should be cost neutral for the clubs (or close enough to it) and they get a steady stream of young and talented players.
The flipside of this is that fewer teams are allowed, but more hours are mandated, so the per player cost for the elite groups will rise - which will inevitably push the children of lower income families out of the elite system, which is tragic.
a. Yes it is tragic. That's why the FFV must come to the party and fund a good number of means-tested scholarships.
b. I'm closely involved with the juniors of one of the clubs and I follow the performance week in week out across the four leagues -east,west,south and north. In the U13s where I'm involved there are only 2-3 teams in each of the 4 leagues which stand out as well drilled, 'elite' teams with talented players across the whole team. The rest are, in general, simply not up to the level Benjamin. Either because of less intense programs, lower quality coaching and technical development or lack of commitment on the part of the players/parents and/or other importnant reasons that need ot be understood. So at this moment that would make about 8-12 serious teams in the metro area. So there don't seem to be so many which would lose something they currently have.
2. Senior teams that provide outlets for their youth players coming through without being crammed full of backpackers and older players who simply are on their way down. Cost of the senior teams will drop due to PPS. This should be a big plus for most clubs. And the quality should improve in time because the programs will be producing much better players in greater numbers. And the fact that it is the main pathway forward should ensure the best players are coming to these clubs. These players will be looking to their futures and not looking to the few extra bucks another club could pay them in the state. Those that do aren't what we're looking for anyway. If the senior competition improves in quality then we also have the basis on which to improve the crowds.
Agree we can get rid of the backpackers - however, don't think the PPS will have a significant influence on wages. Retaining players will be increasingly important, and players will be able to use this to drive their fees up.
We'll have to see over time. If there's enough talent coming through then the clubs will have supply on their side. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for player remuneration but the reality of Australia today for our sport is that the money isn't there.
So. It's good for the players and good for the clubs and their longevity and shouldn't cost much more than it does now. Unfortunately the money will come from the young players and their parents but they're paying the same today in the academies, if you compare apples with apples.
Again, this is only the case for the families that can afford to send their kids to private academies. There are large numbers of families in Australia who can barely afford to send their kids to clubs at the moment, let alone academies or next year's NPL fee charging clubs.
I'm with you on this. That's why we need extensive scholarships to be made available. But at the end of the day this is no different to the appartheid system we have in education in Australia. It is a real social justice issue but it cannot be solved by football on its own. Finally, success is 90% about hard work and only 10% about talent. This may seem very harsh but there will be enough players who can afford the fees and are willing to work as hard as it takes to make it. They just need the environment in which to work.
My biggest concern is ground availability and the links to the community clubs. This is where the FFV needs to do a lot of work still to explain who it will all work. I'm also concerned that the 18 yr old kid who can't get a game at Club A, will have his options of going to Club B drastically reduced by the PPS penalty applied to transferring players. The way I understand it is that players will trial each year for the Elite club in their region. If they don't get picked they will need to go back to a community club from the same region. Next year they come back and trial again. This time they get picked. This will not be seen as a transfer because the player has stayed within the region of the elite club. If they choose to go out of the region then yes it will be a transfer.One of the directors at one of the clubs which has already rejected the NPL mentioned to me a few weeks back that they would have no problem with first team quotas along the lines of "must always have 3 x u20 on the field" and "may have no more than two visa players", but the age restrictions across the squad, etc., are a serious concern for any team looking to compete in any league as just two injuries can seriously weaken a club.
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Benjamin
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On the 18yr old kid transferring - it is my understanding that once they are out of the 'youth' arena, the players will be treated the same as any other senior, so any transfer between clubs will see them carrying the full points penalty.
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Priest
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On ya Steve, no need to attend to my post :-$
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Benjamin
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South Melbourne to withdraw support for NPL-Victoria? http://www.smfc.com.au/news/1333/media-release-south-melbourne-fc-reviews-its-position-on-npl-v/In June 2012, South Melbourne FC endorsed the general principles and direction that football was taking under the FFA and FFV's transition to the National Premier League structure. From the outset, however, the Club informed the FFV it would be proposing appropriate changes so that the model would appeal to most clubs. Over the last twelve months, the Club has become increasingly concerned with the process and consultation undertaken by the FFV Board in order to galvanise and build momentum to successfully launch the new NPL structure in Victoria. South Melbourne FC is disappointed that the FFV Board has not accepted many of FFV's stakeholders' recommendations for changes to the NPL-V model required to ensure the financial viability of the new league and to maximise the quality of the competition. None of the key recommendations proposed by the clubs have been accepted by the FFV Board. One of the key concerns of the clubs which have either not submitted an EOI or have since indicated an intention to withdraw their EOI is the financial and operational structure of the clubs taking part in the proposed NPL-V and the proposed competition itself. The clubs have been vindicated in their concerns by the FFV Board announcement on Tuesday 2nd July to the participants which lodged an EOI that the Small Sided Football competition cannot be included in this state. This is in direct contrast to the NPL structures in New South Wales, Tasmania, and South Australia. We are concerned that this decision by the FFV Board will now bring a further exodus of clubs which are not prepared to risk their club's financial integrity and security. As a result, we believe that Victoria will lose clubs with sound infrastructure and facilities, which will further weaken the proposed competition by further compromising its marketability, popularity, and resulting in restricted broadcasting and commercial opportunities, and more importantly diminishing the potential for a strong and competitive football league. South Melbourne FC has worked long and hard to enthuse and encourage participants in Victoria to apply and enter the NPL-V as we felt that the major intended reforms would benefit football in our state. However, our Club is very disappointed and concerned with the apparent lack of understanding of the key concerns held by our club and other key FFV stakeholders. Consequently, South Melbourne FC is now reviewing its position on its application to enter the NPL-V.
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General Ashnak
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FFV needs to be given a bullet.
The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football. - Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players. On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC
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TheSelectFew
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Great to see a unified front of support for change among the FFV. Absolute appallingly run organisation.
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TheSelectFew
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=d> =d> Bravo to the SMFC board for not being a puppet of the FFV/FFA.
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Priest
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Why are people now applauding SMFC?
Did other clubs not come out with this weeks ago, and South decided to go the other way?
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Benjamin
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Priest wrote:Why are people now applauding SMFC?
Did other clubs not come out with this weeks ago, and South decided to go the other way? I think the people applauding South now are the same ones who were understanding of the other clubs positions previously. That's certainly the case with me - was always supportive of South pushing on with the NPL-V because I know the club could handle all of the demands; but have always understood where the other clubs were coming from. South's move is evidently based on the notion that there isn't much point in being in a league that alienates many very good options for no good reason. The sooner the FFV adopt the same program as NSW, QLD, etc., the better.
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paladisious
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It was very foolish for the FFV CEO to not take on any of the club's input; now I just hope this discontent engenders change for the better, rather than just more of the same old infighting in Australian football.
Over to you, FFV.
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Atlas
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At least clubs like South Melbourne have the balls to change their minds, unlike to FFV who always think they are right no matter what and that everyone else is wrong on this matter. Come on guys wake up and smell the coffee, your time is up, get out of the game you have done enough damage.
Edited by Atlas: 5/7/2013 02:57:03 PM
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pv4
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How is Ljubo going?
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Benjamin
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paladisious wrote:It was very foolish for the FFV CEO to not take on any of the club's input; now I just hope this discontent engenders change for the better, rather than just more of the same old infighting in Australian football.
Over to you, FFV. In fairness to the FFV CEO - he's only been in the job for a week. Perhaps once he's checked out the lay of the land things may change. Those previously running the comp were a little hamstrung by the fact that the last guy jumped ship leaving them with a pretty rigid set of guidelines and no-one was in a position to change anything after he left.
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Heart_fan
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To be fair to FFV, football is hardly the easiest sport to manage with so many self interested parties vying for power, but yes this needs to be sorted out.
Everyone needs to come to the table, including FFV, and work on a plan that meets the requirements of the NPL structure but will work for stakeholders also.
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Arthur
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A key issue is making this League a Commercially viable League, so far the FFV has not sat down with any clubs to discuss, commercial realities. And the FFV is actually not showing any interest in the commercial club realities but seems more concerned with what the the League can bring to the FFV in financial terms.
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Priest
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Atlas wrote:At least clubs like South Melbourne have the balls to change their minds, unlike to FFV who always think they are right no matter what and that everyone else is wrong on this matter. Come on guys wake up and smell the coffee, your time is up, get out of the game you have done enough damage.
Edited by Atlas: 5/7/2013 02:57:03 PM How have they the balls to change their minds? All they are do is reviewing their position.. Hardly showing any balls, like other clubs have..
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TheSelectFew
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Arthur wrote:A key issue is making this League a Commercially viable League, so far the FFV has not sat down with any clubs to discuss, commercial realities. And the FFV is actually not showing any interest in the commercial club realities but seems more concerned with what the the League can bring to the FFV in financial terms. If anything they have destroyed the clubs financially. No ambition shown by the FFV at all.
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Arthur
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TheSelectFew wrote:Arthur wrote:A key issue is making this League a Commercially viable League, so far the FFV has not sat down with any clubs to discuss, commercial realities. And the FFV is actually not showing any interest in the commercial club realities but seems more concerned with what the the League can bring to the FFV in financial terms. If anything they have destroyed the clubs financially. No ambition shown by the FFV at all. The effort put into promoting or stratergies to improve the visibility of the VPL have been non-existant or those startergies they did have have been down graded. Too much of a them and us mentality by FFV and Clubs too. Edited by Arthur: 9/7/2013 12:08:19 PM
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dirk vanadidas
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Arthur wrote:A key issue is making this League a Commercially viable League, so far the FFV has not sat down with any clubs to discuss, commercial realities. And the FFV is actually not showing any interest in the commercial club realities but seems more concerned with what the the League can bring to the FFV in financial terms. What do mean commercially viable ? The junior part of NPL is self financing, so do you mean How do we pay senior players what they are getting paid at the moment if we have no small sided football to be the cashcow ?
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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Benjamin
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dirkvanadidas wrote:Arthur wrote:A key issue is making this League a Commercially viable League, so far the FFV has not sat down with any clubs to discuss, commercial realities. And the FFV is actually not showing any interest in the commercial club realities but seems more concerned with what the the League can bring to the FFV in financial terms. What do mean commercially viable ? The junior part of NPL is self financing, so do you mean How do we pay senior players what they are getting paid at the moment if we have no small sided football to be the cashcow ? How is the junior part of NPL self financing? Costs have increased significantly, at the same time the number of young players who can sign up has been reduced, and simultaneously a cap is being placed on fees.
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Arthur
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dirkvanadidas wrote:Arthur wrote:A key issue is making this League a Commercially viable League, so far the FFV has not sat down with any clubs to discuss, commercial realities. And the FFV is actually not showing any interest in the commercial club realities but seems more concerned with what the the League can bring to the FFV in financial terms. What do mean commercially viable ? The junior part of NPL is self financing, so do you mean How do we pay senior players what they are getting paid at the moment if we have no small sided football to be the cashcow ? I think commercially viable means not only that the clubs need to present; Business Plans Marketing Plans Finacial projections I think the FFV should be doing the same, if you go through the documents there is nothing about promotional activities, about top down funding, about how much the league will cost to run, what the FFV has budgeted for the comp to run, staff allocated to efficiently run the league,scheduling for coaching accredetation courses etc. etc. etc.. I have seen AFL documents for the delivery of the Tasmanian State league and they have provided a business plan, costings, fundings, projections, etc. etc. etc. As Benjamin has pointed out a cap on junior fees restricts charges while the PPS is supposed to solve everything? Edited by Arthur: 9/7/2013 03:39:33 PM
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chris
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"National Premier League" in essence should represent the strongest clubs outside of the HAL
in every state that has been adhered to
Not sure what FFV are trying to formulate with their model but it is obvious that the FFV have conveniently pealed certain recommendation of the NPL NCR from the FFA and tried to drag and drop them into their existing zonal system - very convenient as this sits within their current strategic plan rather than building a new one which truly captures in essence what the NPL set out to achieve
what does this mean for south?
- no point in participating in a competition in isolation with the like of Ballarat and surfcoast - no disrespect for these teams - however not a growth strategy - happy to entertain these team if they were a part of a more established and centralised model with established teams
- south now widely recognised as the 3rd largest football broadcaster nationally - yet the NPLV guidelines would not allow smfc tv to broadcast?????
- smfc this season has over $300K in sponsorship - the FFV is yet to determine revenue streams yet wants control and ownership of clubs trademark
- a football club's value is assessed on 2 pivotal measures - on field performance and membership - yet the FFV is determined to have clubs marginalised to 1 team per age group effectively marginalising a clubs membership base and scrapping small sided games and teams
- zonal system - as mentioned the legacy of the underachieving Champions league which never took off at senior level - it is obvious the FFV plans to have 1 representative in each zone - and all other clubs to be the subservants of each zone - meaning clubs like Melbourne Knights weould utimately be restricted to play senior football in its zone???
- Financials - costly exercise with a block on current revenue streams - yet no direction on new revenue streams - only that these streams would be in the full control of the FFV - an organisation who's number 1 sponsor in the last 10 years has been through fining clubs rather than creating revenue channels
- weaker competition - The VPL is widely regarded from a talent perspective as the strongest state comp in Australia - yet the NPL_V version would make it the weakest - rather than having the best players in the state participating - you would have the best players in a zone participating via their zonal rep - meaning players that missout in a zone may be better than the players representing another zone......compounding this would also seriously dampen the prospects of the Vic team's performance in a national comp at the end of each season which is the only commercial reality granted so far on the NPL vy the FFA not the FFV
the NPLV lack allignment with the FFA NPL model and what the other states have executed - having a competition with category b sides based on an EOI regardless on their ability to deliver is a monumental concern
Without being arrogant smfc gave the NPLV some credibility last year by publicly stating that we welcome "change" however it is clear to see the NPLV have taken a rigid approach primarily to protect its current underachiving summer zonal league minus true feasibility study
You cannot have a Premiere league without clubs with advanced infrastructure such as the Knights - Heidelberg - Green Gully - Bentleigh - Preston - Sunshine - etc etc
Had we adopted the NSW version we would easily achieve 2 tiers including the enablement of some of our major regional centres to participate
admit you got it wrong FFV and the quicker we can structure a competition to launch next year in its capacity
clubs should be judged on their infrastructure - not your formulated version which in all honesty asks powerful clubs to risk 50-60 plus years of evolution
These clubs would me more than happy to participate and share the stage with the lesser knowns - none off the clubs want to hijack the game - the game requires teams to be healthy - however your model is way over formulated and the NPL-V is something that should be relatively simple and executed by now
You gloat about the 40 something EOI's - this is just engagement from the clubs to remain in contact - not a commitment
Scrap it and start again - epic fail FFV
When I see plans like this it basically suggests there are too many middle managers in your offices all having an input in the final version
Edited by chris: 11/7/2013 10:21:30 AM
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TheSelectFew
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Honestly, the scary thing is no matter how many time people belittle Chris, he is always right. Shows the average intelligence of this forum is very low. The franchise model is a joke.
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Arthur
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Quote:NPLV clubs could haemorrhage $142,000 losses – report By Donald Sutherland July 13, 2013 Leave a comment http://www.mfootball.com.au/nplv-clubs-could-haemorrhage-142000-losses-report/Football clubs in the new National Premier League Victoria (NPLV) could accrue debts of more than $142,000 each year, according to a report endorsed by three Victorian Premier League clubs and two State League One clubs. The report, which outlines the financial model of an NPLV club, had input from Box Hill United, Northcote City, South Melbourne, Moreland Zebras & Pascoe Vale. The anticipated financial model highlights the flaws in the NPLV which stipulates each age group is limited to one squad, which impacts club revenue substantially. 78 per cent of the anticipated revenue is impacted by four variables – sponsorship, canteen takings, junior boys subscriptions and junior girls subscriptions – with junior boys subscriptions accounting for 35 per cent of anticipated revenue. The report also hints at attendances and fundraising being impacted by the limited junior ranks, with family and support networks anticipated to be dramatically reduced. Nicholas Tsiaras, Vice President of Box Hill United SC, circulated the report to clubs who have submitted an expression of interest (EOI) for the NPLV in preparation for a meeting where stakeholders hope to put financial issues to the governing body, Football Federation Victoria (FFV). “The aim [of the meeting] is to convince the FFV that we need a financially viable competition that is a sustainable operation for the clubs,” Mr Tsiaras’ email stated, which was also sent to Melbourne-based media outlets. “The criteria provided does not reflect this being possible.” “We must show a united front to the FFV and we anticipate having a document prepared for all EOI clubs to sign in support.” A copy of the editable financial model can be downloaded here.http://www.mfootball.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/NPL-CostingsV1007-V1.xlsx
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Troy5
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chris wrote:"National Premier League" in essence should represent the strongest clubs outside of the HAL
in every state that has been adhered to
Not sure what FFV are trying to formulate with their model but it is obvious that the FFV have conveniently pealed certain recommendation of the NPL NCR from the FFA and tried to drag and drop them into their existing zonal system - very convenient as this sits within their current strategic plan rather than building a new one which truly captures in essence what the NPL set out to achieve
what does this mean for south?
- no point in participating in a competition in isolation with the like of Ballarat and surfcoast - no disrespect for these teams - however not a growth strategy - happy to entertain these team if they were a part of a more established and centralised model with established teams
- south now widely recognised as the 3rd largest football broadcaster nationally - yet the NPLV guidelines would not allow smfc tv to broadcast?????
- smfc this season has over $300K in sponsorship - the FFV is yet to determine revenue streams yet wants control and ownership of clubs trademark
- a football club's value is assessed on 2 pivotal measures - on field performance and membership - yet the FFV is determined to have clubs marginalised to 1 team per age group effectively marginalising a clubs membership base and scrapping small sided games and teams
- zonal system - as mentioned the legacy of the underachieving Champions league which never took off at senior level - it is obvious the FFV plans to have 1 representative in each zone - and all other clubs to be the subservants of each zone - meaning clubs like Melbourne Knights weould utimately be restricted to play senior football in its zone???
- Financials - costly exercise with a block on current revenue streams - yet no direction on new revenue streams - only that these streams would be in the full control of the FFV - an organisation who's number 1 sponsor in the last 10 years has been through fining clubs rather than creating revenue channels
- weaker competition - The VPL is widely regarded from a talent perspective as the strongest state comp in Australia - yet the NPL_V version would make it the weakest - rather than having the best players in the state participating - you would have the best players in a zone participating via their zonal rep - meaning players that missout in a zone may be better than the players representing another zone......compounding this would also seriously dampen the prospects of the Vic team's performance in a national comp at the end of each season which is the only commercial reality granted so far on the NPL vy the FFA not the FFV
the NPLV lack allignment with the FFA NPL model and what the other states have executed - having a competition with category b sides based on an EOI regardless on their ability to deliver is a monumental concern
Without being arrogant smfc gave the NPLV some credibility last year by publicly stating that we welcome "change" however it is clear to see the NPLV have taken a rigid approach primarily to protect its current underachiving summer zonal league minus true feasibility study
You cannot have a Premiere league without clubs with advanced infrastructure such as the Knights - Heidelberg - Green Gully - Bentleigh - Preston - Sunshine - etc etc
Had we adopted the NSW version we would easily achieve 2 tiers including the enablement of some of our major regional centres to participate
admit you got it wrong FFV and the quicker we can structure a competition to launch next year in its capacity
clubs should be judged on their infrastructure - not your formulated version which in all honesty asks powerful clubs to risk 50-60 plus years of evolution
These clubs would me more than happy to participate and share the stage with the lesser knowns - none off the clubs want to hijack the game - the game requires teams to be healthy - however your model is way over formulated and the NPL-V is something that should be relatively simple and executed by now
You gloat about the 40 something EOI's - this is just engagement from the clubs to remain in contact - not a commitment
Scrap it and start again - epic fail FFV
When I see plans like this it basically suggests there are too many middle managers in your offices all having an input in the final version
Edited by chris: 11/7/2013 10:21:30 AM Very good summation Saw a spreadsheet yesterday that even on the most conservative grounds shows that the NPL Model in Victoria is unsustainable. Even paying senior squad players O dollars brings up a deficit, and this is meant to be a semi- professional league underpinning the Aleague! Has anyone got any latest info on what the clubs are planning to do to the "Evil FFV Empire"
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Game Change
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Patrick Lane wrote this in the Melb. Leader Yesterday....
"TWO thirds of Football Federation Victoria clubs to have submitted expressions of interest for the proposed National Premier League Victoria will withdraw their applications.
No current Victorian Premier League clubs remain in the race to join the nationally-streamlined second tier of domestic soccer, while all but four State League 1 clubs have turned their back on the venture.
Only Sunshine George Cross, Werribee, FC Bulleen and Fawkner Blues are yet to convey their withdrawal from the State League 1 ranks.
Although the governing body has kept expressions of interest confidential, documents seen by Leader show 44 initial candidates, with 27 of those originally submitted by existing clubs.
The remaining applicants are consortiums, such as Greater Geelong Galaxy, Wodonga Diamonds and Northern Raiders.
Tuesday's meeting was convened by a group of clubs - Pascoe Vale, Moreland Zebras, Box Hill United, Northcote City and South Melbourne.
Central to their concerns is a devised hypothetical financial model, which found clubs in the NPLV could accrue debts of more than $140,000 each year.
The financial model was endorsed by five Victorian clubs, and is believed to have been devised on conservative estimates.
It is understood a FFV board member was at Tuesday's meeting.
No representatives of Tuesday's meeting would comment, while FFV chief executive Mitchell Murphy said in a statement the governing body had received only one official withdrawal.
"FFV is extremely confident Victoria will see a strong National Premier Leagues competition in 2014. Our NPL team is currently working with many NPL applicants who are putting the finishing touches on their applications," Murphy said.
"FFV has only received three official withdrawals from the 45 applicants and one applicant, a club, recently retracted its withdrawal and has decided to submit an application."
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TheSelectFew
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I'm surprised at Sunshine.
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Priest
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chris
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chris wrote:"National Premier League" in essence should represent the strongest clubs outside of the HAL
in every state that has been adhered to
Not sure what FFV are trying to formulate with their model but it is obvious that the FFV have conveniently pealed certain recommendation of the NPL NCR from the FFA and tried to drag and drop them into their existing zonal system - very convenient as this sits within their current strategic plan rather than building a new one which truly captures in essence what the NPL set out to achieve
what does this mean for south?
- no point in participating in a competition in isolation with the like of Ballarat and surfcoast - no disrespect for these teams - however not a growth strategy - happy to entertain these team if they were a part of a more established and centralised model with established teams
- south now widely recognised as the 3rd largest football broadcaster nationally - yet the NPLV guidelines would not allow smfc tv to broadcast?????
- smfc this season has over $300K in sponsorship - the FFV is yet to determine revenue streams yet wants control and ownership of clubs trademark
- a football club's value is assessed on 2 pivotal measures - on field performance and membership - yet the FFV is determined to have clubs marginalised to 1 team per age group effectively marginalising a clubs membership base and scrapping small sided games and teams
- zonal system - as mentioned the legacy of the underachieving Champions league which never took off at senior level - it is obvious the FFV plans to have 1 representative in each zone - and all other clubs to be the subservants of each zone - meaning clubs like Melbourne Knights weould utimately be restricted to play senior football in its zone???
- Financials - costly exercise with a block on current revenue streams - yet no direction on new revenue streams - only that these streams would be in the full control of the FFV - an organisation who's number 1 sponsor in the last 10 years has been through fining clubs rather than creating revenue channels
- weaker competition - The VPL is widely regarded from a talent perspective as the strongest state comp in Australia - yet the NPL_V version would make it the weakest - rather than having the best players in the state participating - you would have the best players in a zone participating via their zonal rep - meaning players that missout in a zone may be better than the players representing another zone......compounding this would also seriously dampen the prospects of the Vic team's performance in a national comp at the end of each season which is the only commercial reality granted so far on the NPL vy the FFA not the FFV
the NPLV lack allignment with the FFA NPL model and what the other states have executed - having a competition with category b sides based on an EOI regardless on their ability to deliver is a monumental concern
Without being arrogant smfc gave the NPLV some credibility last year by publicly stating that we welcome "change" however it is clear to see the NPLV have taken a rigid approach primarily to protect its current underachiving summer zonal league minus true feasibility study
You cannot have a Premiere league without clubs with advanced infrastructure such as the Knights - Heidelberg - Green Gully - Bentleigh - Preston - Sunshine - etc etc
Had we adopted the NSW version we would easily achieve 2 tiers including the enablement of some of our major regional centres to participate
admit you got it wrong FFV and the quicker we can structure a competition to launch next year in its capacity
clubs should be judged on their infrastructure - not your formulated version which in all honesty asks powerful clubs to risk 50-60 plus years of evolution
These clubs would me more than happy to participate and share the stage with the lesser knowns - none off the clubs want to hijack the game - the game requires teams to be healthy - however your model is way over formulated and the NPL-V is something that should be relatively simple and executed by now
You gloat about the 40 something EOI's - this is just engagement from the clubs to remain in contact - not a commitment
Scrap it and start again - epic fail FFV
When I see plans like this it basically suggests there are too many middle managers in your offices all having an input in the final version
Edited by chris: 11/7/2013 10:21:30 AM Apparently decision has been delayed of the 44 entries 29 about to pull out Of the 15 that remain 5 x clubs 10 x consortiums goes back to what I was saying above FFV dragging and dropping their failed summer league within the boundaries of the NPL FFV to be the MAIN beneficiary of the licences that will be delivered to these consortiums THIS IS A FUCKING JOKE More to come>>>
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chris
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Victoria's VPL is the strongest state league in this country and it is being systematically dissasembled
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chris
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Next week will be a historical moment for football in vic 30 clubs - mass drop out from All the key EOI clubs - one voice football in vic is about to experience an earth tremor nplv will predominantly consist of consortiums and some regional entrants
Edited by chris: 27/7/2013 01:47:39 AM
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HiReception
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So much is left unanswered in all of this. Have the FFV given reasons for their blueprint varying so much from the other Federations? Has a study, or an estimate, been made regarding the Vic clubs' feasability if they were to adhere to, say, FootballWest's model? Is there anything to suggest that the clubs that pulled out - the VPL and SL1 clubs - did so as a group, potentially with a unified plan for a rebel league?
Surely a withdrawal this large would force the FFV's hand in bringing their model in line with other states' (or force FFA's hand in making FFV do so), or perhaps just delay the entry to the NPL until the clubs can come to an agreement. This is going to be an interesting saga to watch.
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Benjamin
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HiReception wrote:So much is left unanswered in all of this. Have the FFV given reasons for their blueprint varying so much from the other Federations? Has a study, or an estimate, been made regarding the Vic clubs' feasability if they were to adhere to, say, FootballWest's model? Is there anything to suggest that the clubs that pulled out - the VPL and SL1 clubs - did so as a group, potentially with a unified plan for a rebel league?
Surely a withdrawal this large would force the FFV's hand in bringing their model in line with other states' (or force FFA's hand in making FFV do so), or perhaps just delay the entry to the NPL until the clubs can come to an agreement. This is going to be an interesting saga to watch. As I understand the clubs that have withdrawn have pretty much all stated that they would be happy to enter the NPL-VIC if it was run on the same system as the NPL-NSW. Considering the NPL-NSW is run on the FFA's guidelines, it's a damning comment on the stance of the FFV that they would alienate so much of the football community in order to chase something that even the FFA don't feel is required.
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Arthur
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Quote:30 July, 2013 2:46PM AEST http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/07/30/3814326.htm?site=gippslandNational stage beckons Gippsland soccer By Celine Foenander Will Gippsland ever foster the sporting career of another Archie Thompson? One former NSL player isn't sure. Print page Email this Permalink ShareMoe identity Manny Gelagotis who played with former National Soccer League side Morwell/Gippsland Falcons says the pathway to elite competition is narrow for budding stars. "There are kids in Gippsland, Shepparton, Ballarat and regional areas that are trying to progress through to that elite level," Gelagotis says. "I mean how can a kid in Gippsland today... possible get through that system? There is no system. "To play in the (Gippsland Soccer League) and to go to the elite level, it's just not achievable. It can't be done." Gelagotis is eager for Gippsland soccer administrators to discuss fielding a regional team in the Victorian division of a new National Premier League. It would be a second tier of competition behind the A-League. "I think everyone needs to get to the table, from the FFA to the Victorian Soccer Federation (FFV) to Gippsland, to all the local clubs to sit down and really nut this out so they get it right and if they don't get it right, well, kids in our area will struggle forever and a day," he says. Gippsland fields two state league teams, Morwell and Warragul. Gelagotis acknowledges their contribution but insists more must be done. He says the game's administrators should look to the AFL for inspiration. "The AFL do it so well," Gelagotis says. "Their expansion is all calculated, like for example Greater Western Sydney and all these new clubs. The AFL fund those clubs immensely to get them off the ground. "I think this is where we get it wrong in terms of soccer. We've just qualified for the World Cup and there's a lot of money on the table but a lot of that money is not spent at grass roots level." Gelagotis says the debate over pathways and funding for the game at club level was raging when he was playing for the Falcons. He fears the region may never produce champions in the vein of Central Coast Mariners captain John Hutchinson and Melbourne Victory and Socceroos striker Archie Thompson. "Unless they've got wealthy parents," Gelagotis says. "I've seen a few players recently that deserve an opportunity, some live in Sale, Morwell... I just think it's sad they won't be given a true opportunity."
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Arthur
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Quote:Battle of the champions July 31, 2013, 9:30 p.m. THE 2013 Victory League champions will not only be champions of Tasmania but have the chance to conquer the country. http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/1675893/battle-of-the-champions/?cs=86See your ad hereThe winner of the 2013 Victory League will square off against the corresponding champions from state leagues across the country in the inaugural National Premier Leagues finals series to be held later this year. The winner after the regular home and away season within each state division will progress to the finals series. In 2013 there are five member federations participating in the finals series: Football Federation Tasmania, Football Federation South Australia, Capital Football, Football NSW, and Football Queensland. The NPL finals series has three stages, elimination finals, semi-finals and a final, with the final to be held as a curtain-raiser to an A-League fixture. Tasmania will always draw Victoria in the elimination round of the competition but FFV is not participating in the NPL set-up in 2013, shooting Tasmania straight through to a semi-final berth, to put the participating Tasmanian club, almost certainly runaway leader South Hobart, just two wins away from national glory
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Arthur
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Quote:North staying put Ryan Reynolds | July 19th, 2013 http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2013/07/19/369622_local_sports.htmlNORTH Geelong will not apply for a licence in the new National Premier League Victoria. Members voted against the move to lodge an application for the league at an extraordinary general meeting on Wednesday night. President Daniel Desa said finances, FFV control and losing the club's identity were the three key issues behind the decision. "It was about 60 per cent that voted no and 40 per cent that voted yes," Desa said. "As a club, a committee, if our members voted yes then we would have done all the work for the application. "Now that they voted no then we will stay as a community club and keep going the way we are." Quote:Related Coverage League shaping up even Your Say "Clubs in Geelong need to stand firm, the venture of Galaxy is not what is needed. Lets all stand our ground and be resolute in the future of our game whilst continuing the love of our clubs. These new or NPL entities will only disassemble our cultures." Joro Kajabe Using FFV-supplied documents, Desa estimated it would cost about $600,000 a year to run the club in the NPLV. "We had a budget and we put in our figures into the template. It was just not feasible," Desa said. "Expenses, we were looking at $600,000, and our figures came up with about a $120,000 loss per year. "They wanted a full-time technical director who needs to get paid. We put the fees in and it came out to be a lot per year." Desa said when entering the league, all teams must agree to overlook and approve all operations of the club. "For example if you wanted to appoint a coach, they need to approve that coach," he said. "So there are a lot of things you can't do on your own without talking to FFV. "In a nutshell they want to approve everything you do and we can't agree with that." He said the club would also be forced to change its name, logo and colours if they were to enter the NPLV. "They want new teams to start if off. We said we don't want to change our club's identity, our club's colours and our logo," he said. "It is a big one. That is one thing all our members didn't like. "We are North Geelong Warriors. This is our name, our emblem, our colours, and we can't have that." Applications for the NPLV close mid-August, with a decision to be made in September. Surf Coast and Greater Geelong Galaxy are the other two clubs linked with a move into the NPLV. The Warriors currently sit bottom of the State League 1 ladder. Desa said North Geelong didn't want to run the risk of demotion from the top state league and was keen to turn results around on the pitch. "We know we will be in the metro league," he said. "We will be told when FFV know the outcome of the NPLV. "They will then sort out division one and two. We won't know what is going on until September. "Just to be safe we want to survive division one and that way we can't go down."
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hitpehoaos
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Quote:NPLV to go ahead says CEO, with others to play in SL1-style league By Donald Sutherland August 6, 2013 Leave a comment
Next year’s National Premier League Victoria (NPLV) will go ahead as expected with clubs who have publicly snubbed the competition to back-flip and formally apply, according to new Football Federation Victoria (FFV) CEO Mitchell Murphy. Speaking exclusively to MFootball, Mr Murphy also branded emails circulated by dissenting clubs as potentially damaging to the code’s reputation. “Applications don’t close until the 16th of August and I’m sure there’ll be a lot of twists and turns in the lead up to that day,” Mr Murphy said. “I am confident that we will have strong applications and I can categorically tell you that there will be an NPL implemented in 2014 in Victoria.” The Federation’s CEO also stated that clubs who do not submit a formal application – or those who didn’t lodge an expression of interest – will play in a Community League using the same structure as the current FFV State League One, using the example of Melbourne Knights in his response to MFootball. “They (Knights) didn’t express an interest, right? So they can’t be considered for the NPL – that’s quite simple, right? And they would play in State League One as an amateur club, it’s that simple. “I guess that we would reserve the right to potentially re-name the league but in general terms, the framework would stay as it is now.” In response to recent legal threats from 4-time National League champion South Melbourne to halt the NPLV process, Mr Murphy said he would only comment when actual action eventuated, and stressed his desire for clubs to meet with the federation “face-to-face.” “I can’t comment on a hypothetical scenario of South Melbourne’s saying that they’re planning legal action and I wouldn’t comment on that until if and when it ever happens, but what I would be prepared to say on the record is this: respectfully, email and media campaigns that potentially damages the code’s reputation isn’t productive. “Coming to the table for a rational and robust discussion would be far more effective. We ultimately all want a strong NPL competition across Victoria and face-to-face discussions, not confrontation tactics, is the best process to achieve that.” “The key point is this: I can say, hand-on-heart, that we have had an open door policy for people to come and talk to us and people who are claiming a lack of consultation are in fact the people who won’t come to the table for a discussion. So there’s a lot of irrational behavior around their comments around lack of consultation. ” Mr Murphy also revealed that the Federation were denied access to an important meeting on July 23 – where clubs aired their concerns with next year’s league changes – after being originally invited. “Both myself and Tim Frampton, the General Manager of football for FFV, who’s been seconded into a role of NPL implementation manager, fact, we were invited to that meeting. So of course we knew it was happening but prior to the meeting we were uninvited by the organisers. So I’ll say again, [it's] very difficult to consult if you’re not given an opportunity to consult, and that’s factually what happened.” A product of that meeting was a hypothetical financial model of a generic NPLV team, which claimed that clubs would haemorrhage $142,000 losses per year. Mr Murphy responded to the hypothetical model by suggesting this projection wouldn’t occur for all clubs. “My response is this: there are many variables in any financial model, and all applications will have varying costs and revenue projections, and change is challenging, and businesses have been going through tough times in many sectors in recent years, including sporting organisations. “FFV completely understands that some applicants can not be fully compliant on all fronts on day one. So it comes down to a balance between being financially viable off the field and competitive on the pitch, and I would say that a logical approach would be to operate between their means from the outset of their application and then build momentum over the coming years.” http://www.mfootball.com.au/nplv-to-go-ahead-says-ceo-with-others-to-play-in-sl1-style-league/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nplv-to-go-ahead-says-ceo-with-others-to-play-in-sl1-style-league
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Troy5
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Please note : 4 pm tomorrow
5 August 2013 – UPDATE No: 3
To All Clubs & Co-Signatories – Release to Media & FFV
An update on where we currently stand in the design of a new NPLV model in our state.
'FFA encourages all parties to work for the good of the game in Victoria. In any change process, issues will arise, but as we've seen in other states these matters can be best resolved without the intervention of FFA.' David Gallop FFA CEO 2 Aug 2013
We are aware that the FFV is separately contacting the clubs which have withdrawn from the EOI process and is seeking to have them re-join the application process in many cases by misinforming these clubs about what has recently occurred.
Should the FFV contact you, please refer them back to myself &/or Tom. This strategy is designed to split the strength of the clubs working together.
We would like to welcome the following co-signatory clubs withdrawing from the NPLV process. - Avondale Heights - Hume United
We’d like to commend all of the 47 clubs/associations for taking the difficult but principled decision to stand together and try and achieve a successful NPL model for Victoria. It’s not only a historic stand, but such a vast number of clubs representing a cross section of Victorian football demonstrates that the concerns that we all hold for the current model are valid and justifies our stance.
The FFV induced many of us in submitting an EOI on the basis that our concerns with the proposed model would be addressed by way of a proper consultation process before applications closed. We subsequently found out that the FFV had no intention of changing anything.
The FFV’s latest move in response to our action asking clubs to submit ‘non-compliant’ bids should they wish to do so, smacks of desperation, division within the FFV itself, is legally questionable and leaves the EOI and application process in tatters.
So how exactly will they compare equally the "dozen clubs/consortia" they claim are left in the process (from initially 45) with the non-compliant bids from other clubs? This is ridiculously inept, the whole process has been farcical.
FFV NPLV Licence Agreement
We have attached the FFV NPLV Licence Agreement for the few remaining clubs in the EOI process to re-read and advise their members about what is expected in the current model.
There are many provisions in the FFV Licence Agreement document that are alarming.
For Instance: Bank Guarantees Commercial Rights Intellectual Property Indemnities Termination
There are many other concerning provisions which no doubt you will identify for yourselves. Clubs and members need to obtain their own legal advice on the terms of the Licence Agreement before deciding whether to proceed.
Our United position on the NPLV 1. We are all committed to a successful NPLV model rollout in 2014 which works for both community and NPL clubs 2. The NPLV should be financially viable for all clubs. The clubs’ concern about the proposed NPLV model is that it is not financially viable. 3. That the NPLV be introduced after proper consultation with the clubs and after taking genuine account of their concerns. 4. To date the FFV has not properly consulted the clubs but rather has merely informed us of how its proposed model will operate. Even the peak Council body that represents all councils, Parks Leisure Australia, in a letter attached to all clubs last Monday made reference and supported all of these similar concerns about the FFV's approach and failure to properly consult. 5. We are united and determined to work for the good of the game in Victoria. It is unprecedented in Australia that 47 clubs/association have come together in a united way 6. No one can reasonably argue that the NPLV could proceed viably, let alone succeed, without the participation of the top 30-40 clubs in Victoria at all levels: Men, Women, Junior Boys and Girls 7. The 47 clubs are all run by volunteers who have no personal financial interest in any of these issues and are working for a viable NPLV model. The contribution and legacy of all these clubs, large, small and everything in between, should be recognised, respected and preserved. That will not happen under the proposed model.
It's disappointing that we need take to task the organisation that we fund, but we will succeed and do so in readiness for a new NPLV model in 2014.
See you all on the 26 Aug 7pm, there we will discuss and agree on a resolution which we will put jointly to the FFV.
Next Steps
1. The co-signatory clubs will call upon the FFV to halt the current NPLV process, by Wednesday 7 August 2013.
2. If this does not occur, South Melbourne Football Club will lead a court application by a number of willing clubs, to suspend the current NPLV process.
3. All the co-signatory clubs will convene on Monday 26 August 2013 to agree on the minimum requirements to be contained for the “NEW NPLV” model for 2014. It is intended that after this meeting we will consult with the FFV in relation to the implementation of the new model.
4. We advise those clubs considering withdrawing from the Current NPLV process to submit their letter of support to the group.
These clubs/associations have publicly withdrawn from the NPLV process and/or submitted statements to the co-signatory group and formally to the FFV.
Bentleigh Greens Box Hill United South Melbourne Womens Dandenong Thunder Fawkner Blues Sandringham Womens Northcote City Heidelberg United Box Hill United Womens Oakleigh Cannons Moreland Zebras Heidelberg United Womens Pascoe Vale North Geelong Warriors Bundoora United Womens Port Melbourne Sharks Gippsland Soccer Assoc. Ashburton United Womens South Melbourne Bundoora United Altona City Womens Southern Stars Altona Magic Casey Comets Womens Green Gully Cavaliers St Albans Saints Preston Lions Womens Hume City Western Suburbs Cairnlea Womens Melbourne Knights Peninsula Strikers Seaford United Langwarrin Collingwood City Malvern City Fawkner Cairnlea Kingston City Preston Lions Sporting Whittlesea Waverley Wanderers Avondale Heights Whittlesea United Northern Roosters FC Clifton Hill Hume United
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wizardinoz
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South Melbourne board member Tom Kalas said: ''We are all committed to a successful NPLV model rollout in 2014 which works for both community and NPL clubs. [Our] concern about the proposed NPLV model is that it is not financially viable.'
Somebody had better explain this to Bulleen Lions because its currently not getting through to them
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CL
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TheSelectFew wrote:I'm surprised at Sunshine. they've got cash to throw down the drain when the sale of Chaplain finally happens
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Arthur
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Don't know if this is one of the biggest bounces ever, but reading the prediction on the outcomes pretty much stop on.
PPS the player point system is a joke and holding back the playing level and youth advancement. Having no Domestic Transfer System is a disaster.
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LFC.
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same shit different day. So sad and frustrating our game can't get anything in motion for the better but smokes/mirrors and talk.....
Love Football
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Squidley
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Any chance of the State league fixtures being released?
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