U.S Gun lobby targets Australia


U.S Gun lobby targets Australia

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Joffa
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Sandy Hook massacre: Gun lobby targets Australia

December 12, 2013

Nick O'Malley
US correspondent for Fairfax Media

As America prepares to mark the first anniversary of the murder of 20 children and six staff at the Sandy Hook elementary school, Australia has again become a focus of the increasingly bitter debate over gun control in the United States.

At issue for activists on both sides is the decision by former prime minister John Howard to ban a range of gun types in Australia following the Port Arthur massacre, in particular semi-automatic rifles. To gun control advocates in America the laws proved that regulation can reduce gun deaths. To gun rights activists they are evidence that US President Barack Obama is pursuing gun control measures that are nothing short of tyrannical.

The editorial in the December issue of the National Rifle Association’s gun rights magazine, America’s First Freedom, is typical of how Australia’s gun laws are seen by some conservative Americans.

In the piece, titled "Standing Guard", the organisation’s increasingly strident public face, executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, argues that elements of the American media back Mr Obama’s alleged plan to create “a US version of the Australian/British tyranny”.

As evidence Mr LaPierre cites an editorial by Mr Howard published by The New York Times after the Sandy Hook massacre entitled “I Went After Guns. Obama Can, Too.”

“Virtually no US media outlet was honest enough to describe what actually happened to our formerly free English-speaking cousins as a direct result of mass murders committed by lone, criminally insane killers,” wrote Mr LaPierre.


Protection: John Howard wears a bullet-proof vest under his jacket during a rally about gun laws in Sale, Victoria, in 1996. Photo: AFP
He argues Australians living in inner cities are “reaping the real consequences” of Australian-style gun control.

“Criminal violence with illegal firearms in those urban centres is soaring,” writes Mr LaPierre.

“Try these headlines from one month before the US Washington Navy Yard murders:

“From the Ballina Shire Advocate, August 21, 2013, 'New plan unveiled to tackle out-of-control gun violence'.

“Or this from News Limited Network, August 2, 2013, ‘Is Australia staring down the barrel of a gun crisis?’ "

Throughout the year, when the NRA has raised the Australian experience, the organisation has emphasised Australian media’s reporting of spates of shootings in inner Sydney and Melbourne rather than comparing long-term nationwide gun death rates.

In a speech after September’s mass shooting in the Washington Navy Yard, Mr Obama appeared to be referring to Australia, among other nations, when during a memorial to those killed he said, “It ought to be a shock to all of us as a nation and as a people. It ought to obsess us, it ought to lead to some sort of transformation - that’s what happened in other countries when they experienced similar tragedies.”

Mr LaPierre’s editorial also highlights a major concern of the NRA not commonly understood in Australia. The group is not only opposed to any new restrictions on the types of weapons Americans may own, but to any national register of weapons or gun owners. The NRA considers this to be a key step towards tyranny, and Mr LaPierre’s editorial notes that the purchase and destruction of weapons already in the hands of gun owners that accompanied Mr Howard’s gun bans could not have proceeded without a register.

When American gun control advocates invoke the Australian experience they tend to refer to the dramatic reduction in instances of guns used in suicide and murder in Australia since the bans.

As Mr Howard’s editorial noted there have been no mass shootings in Australia since his bans and suicide rates have dropped by 74 per cent.

On Sunday night CNN aired an hour-long special (which included an interview with Mr Howard) on what lessons America could learn from around the world to reduce its gun deaths.

Hosted by Fareed Zakaria it noted that America's per capita gun homicide rate in 2009 was 12 times higher than the average of Canada, Germany, Australia and Spain.

A similar point was made by the news satire The Daily Show, which in April dispatched one of its reporters to Australia for a series of segments on Australia’s gun laws. These programs, which went on to win an Emmy Award, featured Mr Howard as well as his deputy prime minister Tim Fischer and the former Queensland premier Rob Borbidge.

They quoted Virginian gun rights advocate Philip Van Cleeve, who was asked if America could learn from Australia. “I guess if we're going to go to Planet X and say, 'It's not the United States. It's some other planet: different people, different everything' ... but in the real world, with human beings, it's not going to work and gun control isn't going to work," he said.

Mr Fisher reappeared in America’s media when he called for Australians to boycott the US until it introduced gun control measures after the murder of the young Australian baseballer Christopher Lane, who was shot dead without motive as he went for a jog in small town Oklahoma.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/sandy-hook-massacre-gun-lobby-targets-australia-20131212-hv5ed.html#ixzz2nFjreJGB
Eastern Glory
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Breaks my heart. I love the US in so many ways, but some people just have this all backwards.
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Of course, when we refer to 'out of control gun violence' the actual figures are for every 100k population, in Australia 1.06 person dies per year. Of that, 0.13 is homicide, and 0.72 is suicide. 0.20 is from unintentional causes.

In the USA, 10.3 people per 100k die from guns. 3.60 for homicide, 6.30 for suicide.
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America is too far gone - literally almost every family owns a gun. If you take guns away from those law-abiding citizens, the only people who get guns are criminals. I really wish there was not such a big gun culture in America, but because it is so big is it too large to tackle.


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Doubtful they'll ever curb the gun problem in the US, maybe they should try and limit, restrict or tax bullets....
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Joffa wrote:
Doubtful they'll ever curb the gun problem in the US, maybe they should try and limit, restrict or tax bullets....


Mandatory waiting times and back ground checks in conjunction with highly taxed bullets... Very, very easy way to start implementing gun control.
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Wait...didn't Jon Stewart already do this?

Edited by afromanGT: 12/12/2013 09:31:20 PM
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[youtube]mVuspKSjfgA&desktop[/youtube]
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DEY'RE GERNNA TURK ER GUUURRRRNNNS

By now, American Samoa must have realised that Australias 22-0 win over Tonga two days earlier was no fluke.

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playmaker11 wrote:
DEY'RE GERNNA TURK ER GUUURRRRNNNS

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I struggle against the urge to burst into hysterical fits of laughter every time I see an American say they need guns to protect themselves against a tyrannical government :lol:
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
I struggle against the urge to burst into hysterical fits of laughter every time I see an American say they need guns to protect themselves against a tyrannical government :lol:

What's really ironic is that the nuts with guns quote the second amendment as justification, but the second amendment is so people can protect themselves from nuts with guns.
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Joffa wrote:
Doubtful they'll ever curb the gun problem in the US, maybe they should try and limit, restrict or tax bullets....

I think It'll probably change with the generational shift. Those old gun toting rights based attitudes seem less and less common with the younger generations. But that's just my perception.
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Neanderthal wrote:
Joffa wrote:
Doubtful they'll ever curb the gun problem in the US, maybe they should try and limit, restrict or tax bullets....

I think It'll probably change with the generational shift. Those old gun toting rights based attitudes seem less and less common with the younger generations. But that's just my perception.

"common opinion" will always be determined by the vocal minority.
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huge industry the weapons industry in the US of A
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batfink wrote:
huge industry the weapons industry in the US of A

Arms spending equates to 2.7% of global GDP. In the USA it's worth about 1% of GDP.
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afromanGT wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
I struggle against the urge to burst into hysterical fits of laughter every time I see an American say they need guns to protect themselves against a tyrannical government :lol:

What's really ironic is that the nuts with guns quote the second amendment as justification, but the second amendment is so people can protect themselves from nuts with guns.


To further add to the Irony, the 2nd amendment was actually implement when large portions of the country were seriously lacking law enforcement and government supervision. Whilst is was to protect themselves from nuts with guns as you say, it was mostly because the government wasn't big enough at the time (to seriously dumb it down).

Now you get these hicks who use the 2nd amendment as a right to 'protect' themselves from an oppressive govt.

The problem now is winding it back is just an impossible task. Taking steps like capping the clip size and 7 rounds, banning the sale of automatic rifles and extensive waiting times will definitely be a good start.
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Joffa wrote:
Doubtful they'll ever curb the gun problem in the US, maybe they should try and limit, restrict or tax bullets....

Chris Rock agrees

[youtube]OuX-nFmL0II[/youtube]
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afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
huge industry the weapons industry in the US of A

Arms spending equates to 2.7% of global GDP. In the USA it's worth about 1% of GDP.



can you confirm what you are saying....
Is that 1.0% the USA spend of the world's GDP or America's GDP???

Edited by batfink: 13/12/2013 12:04:46 PM
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batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
huge industry the weapons industry in the US of A

Arms spending equates to 2.7% of global GDP. In the USA it's worth about 1% of GDP.



can you confirm what you are saying....
Is that 1.0% the USA spend of the world's GDP or America's GDP???

Edited by batfink: 13/12/2013 12:04:46 PM

It's actually 0.1% of US GDP - currently around $14bn annually (US GDP is around $16T). So their spending is actually below the global average. Most of the weapons industry is propped up by Paramilitary organisations and private security.
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afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
batfink wrote:
huge industry the weapons industry in the US of A

Arms spending equates to 2.7% of global GDP. In the USA it's worth about 1% of GDP.



can you confirm what you are saying....
Is that 1.0% the USA spend of the world's GDP or America's GDP???

Edited by batfink: 13/12/2013 12:04:46 PM

It's actually 0.1% of US GDP - currently around $14bn annually (US GDP is around $16T). So their spending is actually below the global average. Most of the weapons industry is propped up by Paramilitary organisations and private security.



by Laicie Heeley [contact information]

U.S. Defense Spending vs. Global Defense Spending

April 24, 2013

In 2012, the most recent year for which complete data is available, the U.S. approved $645.7 billion in defense budget authority (fiscal year 2013 dollars). This figure includes funding for the Pentagon base budget, Department of Energy-administered nuclear weapons activities, and the war in Afghanistan.

This number is six times more than China, 11 times more than Russia, 27 times more than Iran and 33 times more than Israel. Though China is often cited as the country’s next great military adversary, U.S. military spending currently doubles that of all of the countries in Asia combined. In 2012, the U.S. consumed 41 percent of total global military spending. The U.S. also remained in the top 10 highest spending countries as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), one widespread measure of military spending, trailing behind countries such as Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, all of which have a significantly lower total military expenditure as well as a lower total GDP.I

2012 Defense ExpenditureII
(budget authority in billions of current U.S. dollars)

Country or Region   2012 Spending
United States (including war and nuclear)   645.7
Asia   314.9
Europe   280.1
Middle East and North Africa   166.4
Russia and Eurasia   69.3
Latin America and The Caribbean   68.8
Sub-Saharan Africa   19.2
Canada   18.4
Global Total   1,582.8
Total Global Spending for 2012
Top Five Defense Budgets
(budget authority in billions of current U.S. dollars)

Top Five Global Defense Budgets
U.S. vs. Global Spending
(budget authority in billions of current U.S. dollars)

U.S. Defense Spending vs. Next 15 Countries and Rest of World
Countries of Interest
(budget authority in billions of current U.S. dollars)

Country   2012 Spending   Percent of GDP
United States (including war and nuclear)   645.7   4.12
Canada   18.4   1.04
China   102.4   1.24
Russia   59.9   3.06
United Kingdom   64.1   2.63
France   48.1   1.86
Germany   40.4   1.20
Japan   59.4   0.99
India   38.5   1.98
Italy   23.6   1.19
Brazil   35.3   1.45
Australia   25.1   1.63
Saudi Arabia   52.5   7.99
South Korea   29.0   2.52
Israel   19.4   7.85
Taiwan   10.3   2.21
Iran   23.9   4.95
North Korea   **   **
Pakistan   5.9   2.55
Venezuela   6.1   1.80
Iraq   14.7   11.28
Afghanistan   2.1   10.54
Oman   6.7   8.42
Jordan   1.8   5.6
IU.S. figure includes funding for the Pentagon base budget, Department of Energy-administered nuclear weapons activities, and the war in Afghanistan. Data from Congressional Research Service, Office of Management and Budget, and International Institute for Strategic Studies.

IIUnfortunately, there is no such thing as an agreed-upon international definition for “defense expenditure.” Many countries count spending differently and, in some cases, transparency is an issue.
The analysis above uses data from The Military Balance 2013, the authoritative reference almanac produced annually by the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Defense spending estimates for China and Russia, both of which regularly underreport their annual military budgets, have been reported using a methodology known as Purchasing Power Parity (PPP). The Military Balance typically uses market exchange rates to convert countries’ defense spending figures into U.S. dollars. In the case of China and Russia, however, the market exchange rates fail to fully reflect the purchasing power of the yuan and the ruble, respectively. To compensate for this, The Military Balance 2013 uses PPP. This allows for a more balanced calculation of the numbers. All of the figures for China and Russia in the analysis above use PPP figures, which are significantly higher than both officially reported and market exchange rate figures.
The bottom line is that this analysis uses the highest possible defense spending estimates for China and Russia.

**The U.S. State Department estimates North Korean military spending at as much as a quarter of Gross National Product (GNP), with up to 20% of men ages 17-54 in the regular armed forces. Any publicly available estimates on DPRK defense spending are unreliable.


http://armscontrolcenter.org/issues/securityspending/articles/2012_topline_global_defense_spending/

afromanGT
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You can't really quote military spending when you're referring to private arms. That's apples and oranges.
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afromanGT wrote:
You can't really quote military spending when you're referring to private arms. That's apples and oranges.



agreed....
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batfink wrote:
afromanGT wrote:
You can't really quote military spending when you're referring to private arms. That's apples and oranges.



agreed....

So why did you do it? #-o
GO


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