Imported coaches who have won the A-League:

Littbarski
Lavicka

The rest of the winners - Arnold, Van Egmond, Merrick, Postecoglou, Popovic - are Australian born or trained.

Gombau and JvS may end up with great success in the next 12 months.

Not advocating one over the other, just wanted to put it out there.

I dont particularly see sense in comparing him to anyone. I found all of the coach educators on my C class to be very good though vastly different in their approach.

Having not been there when those two men took the players mentioned to task i cant make comment on the actual event. Though i do put to you that it may have been a somewhat staged approach.

Its a learning experience for everyone, inlcuding the coaching educators. As ive said to you any number of times before the best coaches are those who are able to listen, learn and then form their own methods and ways of coaching. The abiity to read specific players for instance and what they need from a mental perspective is not something you will learn from a coaching course. That comes from experience or formal training in psychology.

At a conference i recently attended Ron Smith was there. I chose to listen to what Ron had to say through respect for where he had been and what he had done rather than engaging with him. Though i saw merit in a lot of what Ron said and the questions that he asked of the national curriculumn it was obvious that he and i for better or worse are very different people and even moreso very different coaches.

If there are in fact better educators in Europe that would be purely through experience. One European coaching educator i know personally has been at it for over 30 years. Naturally he should be better at it than someone who has been at it for a maximum of ten years

Because you and I both like Rob and think he is a good coach educator, who can you compare him to?

I've been lucky enough to have attended a coaching course ran by coach educators from one of the European countries our FFA NC is derived from.

These guys, Ad Derkson and Arie Schans, have been running coach education courses all over the world. In the first course they ran in Australia, they had most of the current HAL coaches, doing a Youth Coching course to bring them up to speed. When they did a few exercises on the pitch they berated Muscat, Corica, Vidmar, Veart, Durakovoc, Popovic, et al, for poor execution of skills in SSGs.

Not one of our current FFA echelon of coach educators, with the notable exception of Han Berger, would've done this to players of their standing. They had poor habits. Now the same coaches are passing on improved methodology to players under their tutelage. There is a current hierarchy in place within FFA.

I've pointed out to a number of FFA coach educators, three, how they could've done something that I think is better, from having access to Schans and Derkson's knowledge. The methodology I'm suggesting has come from vastly more experienced coaches to our FFA ones, using similar methodology for much longer periods. Acting upon my suggestions, has been received with mixed responses.

95% of the time, I absorb info from most of our FFA coach educators with great receptiveness. There are better ones though in Europe.

I believe Smith is currently coaching Pahang in Malaysia

There appears a group of coaches under the FFA nd State Federations umbrella that you would call "Teaching Coaches".

Such as Cross, O'Connor, Smith, Edwards etc. etc.

What is interesting or analogous is that the FFA/State Federations enviroment is much like the University Lecturer/Tutor enviroment.

Interesting that when coaches have left this enviroment like Smith and Edwards they flounder.

Here in Australia these FFA and State Fedration roles are coveted, most likely as the number of full time positions available to coaches are from this enviroment.

In Europe these roles are less coveted as the Club enviroments are more rewarding financially and more positions are available.

Hopefully the Australian situation will change in the next 10-20 years.

I can't find the link but you will find that the Welsh FA Coaching courses are preferred over the English and Scottish.

I suspect Versailjen's influence over the course is a reason.

Having trained under Rob, and done a bit of research on him i can say from experience that he is a fantastic presenter and does a bloody good job of putting the curriculum into practice. From what i can gather he truly believes in it. From his website:

Rob is currently the Advanced Coaching Manager for the Football Federation of Australia. He is an ex-professional player with extensive experience of European Football. He possesses a varied and diverse skill set that has enabled him to work at the highest level across a number of areas in the game.

At the Football Association of Wales, he introduced a national structure for the development of players, directed and delivered the Coach Education program including the UEFA Pro and A licenses. He also coached the Welsh U16 Men’s team for 7 years, during which time they secured the Victory Shield for the first time since the 1950’s. As part of his role, he represented the FAW within UEFA’s coach and youth development initiatives.

Rob has supported the performance of International teams attending the FIFA Women’s World Cup, U20 Men’s World Cup and the Senior Men during the qualifying stages for the 2008 Beijing Olympics & the 2010 FIFA World Cup. His expertise for coaching has been utilised in the last 2 years through acting as Assistant Coach to the Canadian Women’s National Team. Again he has experienced success when the Canadian’s secured a Bronze medal in the London Olympics.

Rob created, and implemented a fully residential Academy for talented players from across the Oceania region.

Name: Rob Sherman
Qualifications: UEFA Pro License
Playing History: Cardiff City, Swansea City, Hull City
Coaching History: Football Association of Wales Technical Director, Player Development Manager.
New Zealand Football High Performance Manager.
Asia Pacific Football Academy Academy Director

You may also not that the non proactive football you mentioned of wales has managed to produce a generation including the likes of Bale, Ramsey, ashley williams, Joe Allen. In this four you have one of the best players in the world, a top premier league midfielder, a central defender with fantastic vision and touch as well as a deep lying play maker who fits in nicely at 6 or 8 and completes some ridiculous amount of passes to keep the ball moving.

As far as kelly cross goes i agree with you. I find it interesting that warren grieve didnt get a mention in your ex mother country list

He is very good at devising the coaching courses into modules. He deserves lavish praise for doing it, but as a teacher myself, like Cross, and with a lot more classroom experience than him, thousands of teachers could have done it as well.

The problem he has with credibility, is that Cross hasn't really had enough of a football track record/CV out in the field. He is in a position where he is instructing a lot of other coaches who have.

Han Berger has a lot of credibility with the same clientele, because he has a proven track record, and, a sound football education. Cross is possibly going to succeed Berger. I think it will be problematic.

He was totally overawed by Dutch KNVB coaches who trained about 50 Oz coaches in KNVB methodology. They were at times castigating training ground practices, that he had advocated coach use on the training ground. Of course he has been re-educated and has constantly updated his knowledge base, but to many coaches he doesn't have the street credibility in football.

To many, Ron Smith has it, but currently he is not employed by FFA to the best of my knowledge. Ron has posted in this section of the forum on a couple of occasions.

FFA's former mooted successor to Berger was going to be Ali Edwards.

Edited by Decentric: 26/2/2014 09:28:49 AM

=d>

Have you considered the possibility that he is good at his job?

Just thinking of a few more coaches in the FFA system, not from football powerhouses, but generically foreign.

Kelly Cross seems to have survived every restructure in FFA and has retained one of the highest offices in football. He is English. I think he arrived in Australia with a lot of coaching accreditation when it was relatively new. Besides having a short stint with Blacktown in the NSW state league, other than being a professionally trained teacher, like about 200 000 others in Australia, I'm not sure why he has been retained so easily by FFA?

The likes of Ron Smith (highly rated by many players under his tutelage) and Steve O'Connor, who has recently elucidated he likes technical football and the Dutch, have not been retained in FFA coaching circles?

On this same note, Les Scheinflug and Raul Blanco could've been retrained too and been used in the FFA system.

Many who've had Cross in their FFA coaching courses, think he presents well. I agree he does, but there are about 200 000 teachers and innumerable university lecturers in Australia just as good, if not better. The only other teacher I know on FFA coach education ranks, Mike Edwards, is already as good as a presenter as Cross after only instructing a few courses.


Rob Sherman, hails from Wales, and is about 3rd in the FFA coaching hierarchy. Wales are again not renowned as having comprehensive success playing Proactive football. I think he is a good instructor, but the question raised by Arthur, off line, is that there must be a plethora of coaches in Spain and Holland who have far more experience implementing and educating coaches in this sort of methodology.

The only issues I can see are how well English is spoken. The Dutch usually speak it superbly. Peter de Roo seems to be highly thought of in FFA circles. I say we need more Dutch and Spanish who've been inculcated with this sort of football methodology for some time, not Kiwis and British.





Edited by Decentric: 25/2/2014 06:07:28 PM

True.

I've started a thread on the success of Clough/Taylor, possibly the best coaching combo ever. They are English.

Rodgers is Northern Irish, I think, and is a tiki taka adherent.

There are innumerable coaches from Holland, Spain and France, who've been coaching in the style of football we/FFA want our players to play in Australia for some time.

Gombau is doing this at AU. JVS already has Heart playing more of a possession game through the central part of the pitch (although I missed last week's game). In the first season under JVS they played possession football.

Not wanting to side with the bitters but is it not more important the kind of coach not where they come from
ie Brendan Rodgers would you reject him because he was English. I hope i only ever judge coaches on their ability not their nationality. Thats the way i wish to be judged.

Actually lollywood D and myself have discussed this just recently.
I was telling D how disappointed I was that the the FFV 's last two Technical Directors where from New Zealand.
I was disappointed that either a local, or my preference for a Coach from say France, Spain, Germany, Holland or Latin America could not be appointed for a one or two year period so that we could have a different perspective here in Victoria.
No offense intended to Douglas and Edmondson but New Zealand isn't exactly a country that we need to importing Football Coaches from.

Yes I'm sure you were, you always preface your own opinions with such statements when we all know that quite frankly you are only proficient with talking with yourself & the literally hundreds of multi's that you have created on various forums & blogs over the years of your mental disintegration.

You're not fooling anyone, let alone anyone in the Australian football community who know well enough about your quite frankly disturbing proclivities to discard any of your opinions & analysis.

Enjoy your day & please continue your positive contribution to this forum section.

One conversation I've had with another 442 member off forum, is why FFA in particular continues to ignore the recruitment of continental European coaches to join the FFA and HAL ranks.

In the HAL we have had continental Euorpeans, JVS, Coolen and Gombau coaching senior teams. Also, I think JVS and Berger have had a role in the Technical Development at Heart and Roar.

HAL clubs have recruited Poms Steve McMahon, Richard Money, Paul Nevin, Terry Butcher and Irish Jim Magilton for roles coaching senior teams.

Scots, former HAL coaches Ian Ferguson and Lawrie McKinna, have had teams playing more like archetypal British clubs, but I'm not sure of their training, whether it more was done more in the old country or here?

At this stage I'll leave out British Mike Mulvey, Kenny Lowe, Ernie Merrick and Darren Davies, because they have undergone a lot of coach education in Australia.



Peter de Roo and Jan Versleijen from Holland have had roles in FFA. Yet Neil Orr, Dean May, Kenny Lowe, Spencer Prior, Sean Douglas and Paul Lonton are just a few, there may be many more, from the Anglo countries who have been recruited by FFA.

Dutch and Spanish coaches have been inculcated in the football methodology we want to impart to our players for some time. They are often very experienced. Yet there are still many foreigners recruited in FFA ranks from New Zealand, England and Scotland. Any coaches of these countries have only recently acquired the type of methodology that FFA wants to impart to developing players in Australia.

Other than speaking English, which the Dutch are usually very proficient at, we cannot see why so few Dutch, Spanish and French coaches have been recruited by FFA? Germany has not been imparting this type of methodology for as long as the other three European nations at this point in time.

Surely the coaches from the continental European countries, that our FFA NC is based on, will have a lot more practical experience at delivering similar content?






Edited by Decentric: 14/1/2014 03:26:07 PM