Just as a footnote the Qas in queensland has become completely errelivant. To the point that this season the senior NPL team is the roar youth team.

Coaches are the same no coach should be allowed to coach in the A league unless they have proven themselves at NPL. No coach should be allowed to coach a national team of any age unless they have successfully coached a A league team or better.
Lets get a string of consistency ie does okon and angie coach the same? How would you know do Angie and Arnold coach the same? No So if angy was national coach and Arnold was U21s coach we would be wasting our players and their time.
Keep going down to the state institutes and you see my point.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/paartalu-joins-thai-club

This ism y point from a football development view point where is this career heading what is the string,why the choice of clubs other than money.
What assistance - advice is given to these players to get them to an A or B.

There is little to no assistance given to players to reach A or B.

Interesting read Decentric, i think in my opinion is that its fairly hard to judge a talented player at a national title week given the inconsistent they have as players in that age bracket.

Also to think the FFA might look at those players at not to the A standard as you suggest, but usually a players development starts from 10 to 20, so with the 10 000 hour rule in place it takes 10 years for that player to develop to the best they can get, mostly these guys are still developing in facets of there game.

Thats just opinion anyway, its like how a Tom Rogic developed late in his teens instead and now a stand out to what he is now?

Perhaps the FFA need to be careful how they judge talent, plus also identify them as well. They know its 20 to 30 year process if they want to reach a higher level. Given they still going to having to educate the coaches, improving the pathways that are in place now.

Mind you the level in Europe is very high.

Edited by Barca4life: 25/2/2014 11:26:52 AM

It may not be perfect, but it arguably covers most bases.

Sorry mate but i think under age world cups are bull shit. personally i would drop that as a criteria. IMO

Another way of looking at this question.

Pre 2005 let us allocate player ratings from A down to Z. A being the highest rating, Z the lowest.

In the 2006 World Cup we may have had 15 players at B level. None of our players were good enough for the A Level except some of the keepers we've had, Kewell for a few years, maybe Zelic and Okon for a short time and definitely Bresciano and Grella, (ranked in the top 50 players of the 2006 WC tournament).

Maybe we had 10 players at C level in the 2006 WC.




Now we have:

Level A.

Defined as playing for top European clubs on a regular basis.

Maybe no Aussies ATM, Ryan may get there.




Level B.

Defined as being regulars at lower ranked clubs in EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga and the Le Championat. Others may include being regulars at weaker leagues, but standout clubs who play in the Champions League on a regular basis - Holland, Portugal, Russia, Switzerland, Croatia, Serbia, Greece, Scotland, Belgium, Ukraine.

Cannot think of any current Oz players at B level, other than Jedinak. Kruse is not a starter in the Bundesliga.



Level C.

Players who are regulars at modest clubs in Euro divisions, like Belgium, Holland, Portugal, Turkey, Greece, etc, or English Championship who play a decent style of football.

The very top Oz players in the HAL(Milligan, McKay, NTS, Spira, Thwaite, Smith, North, Franjic, Brattan, Zullo, Eugene, Joel Griffiths, Archie) we may deem reaching this standard. For argument's sake, we can add the J league and K League.

Wer may have about 30- 50 players at this standard, more than ever before.




Level D and Below.

Immaterial to the discussion.




What I would argue now, hypothetically is we have more players than ever at C Level, not as many at B level, like 2006, but none at A level.

What FFA are looking at, in making evaluations of players at national titles, are players who may attain A Level. This would give Australia the chance to consistently be in the top 20 teams in the world. These hypothetical A Level players are footballers better than what we've ever produced before.

The top international nations generally have many players in their teams who play in the Champions League. If they don't, they have healthy numbers in the Brazilian and Argentinian leagues.



When FFA coahces say they are disappointed at the calibre of players, it may be that it is because they don't look like reaching theLevel A required to be a top 20 football nation, or even a powerhouse.

Powerhouses are defined by FFA as:

1. Who regularly qualify for senior Word Cups.

2. Who produce payers regularly to play in the European big five leagues.

3. Who consistently qualify for under age World Cups.

Bt this criteria, FFA defines only 8 powerhouse nations in world football.

Over time, Portugal, Croatia, Japan and Serbia, may join Spain, Holland, France (only just made the criteria), Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay as the powerhouses who meet all criteria.

Belgium look good ATM, but will need to produce over a sustained period.

Not specific to HAL coaches but i think all of the people in this part of football are lazy. I never seen anyone watching games until selection carnivals.They need to get out of their offices and have a look at games every week.They make a token effort at a coaches training day and that is it until the next one is appointed.

Some good comments & insight
Thanks

Perhaps it's a question of logistics and timing, no HAL coach would be wanting to leave his club for a few days to watch the NTC tournament, he is just too busy to do so. He'll get videos I'm sure.

I'd rather see the nine HAL clubs "adopt" an NTC team or two and work closely with them. But it all has to happen when the league season is over. Run the NTC tournament in July and with the right structure, the HAL coaches will come.

A few good points raised here. I don't think there are enough FFA staff coaches to perform this function.

In one state I know there is still a distrust of FFA by many stakeholders in clubs. I've tried to bring a national team coach into one club, but an appraisal of his abilities from about 10 years ago, still stands. The coach is a decidedly different model from the one 10 years ago. He is immeasurably better, one of the best in the business now.

Totally agree but especially with the point about too much exposure.I have seen too many miss managed and destroyed or moved and faded away. Every thing must be designed around the player but he must be kept on a level ground. Watching a young player make his mark on the game overseas how it will turn out is anyone's guess but it is starting out little by little with patience and planning. At this stage they just need to be left alone and learn.

ps how any times have we seen players from Australia move clubs or country and sat back and thought WTF did they go there for.I think David lee has managed his son well, does not mean he will make it just means it was thought out with reason.

Trouble with academies is they tend to poach the best players from one association's clubs, then make a deal with one of those clubs and get all those boys to represent that club, winning 15-0 in the process.

It's garbage and just cherry picking. Of course they'll improve as they are playing with others of a good standard and training three times a week but they are not getting the competition they need.

It's just a way of making the dads feel like they are giving their boys a chance. Revenue raising at its finest.

Regarding the NTC tournaments, I am OK with not giving these boys too much exposure too early. If the media don't like it, well that's just too bad. At least half the football journos are not qualified enough to comment.

Its starting to go that way with the NPL and soon to be elite academies by the A-League clubs.

I think the state/ federation programs will slowly dissolve or go in tandom with the a-league clubs, not sure about that yet...

Eerie silence in the room..Did not want to hi-jack the thread..

Just putting it out there.....thinking the federation / governing body should administrate the sport & let the clubs develop the payers.

Thoughts?

Perhaps have the FFA coaches could be zoned to clubs acting as the junior technical director?
I can not understand how 1 team for 1 age group per state will ever produce what is required. A number of TD's overlooking a number of clubs (numerous) coaches would surely increase the player pool of "quality".

Would the clubs let them in?.....now that's a separate debate.

If a player trains with a private academe and plays in a regular comp why can he not be selected for state.
Another question i have is if every player pays his registration why is he not available for state selection? I would like to see that challenged in court.
IMO the academes are full of nepotism (if academes as the Adelaide coach said) owned their players and sold them or used them in the first team this would stop.
IMO selection has gone far backwards. Brisbane roar state on their web site that they have had an extensive scouting process and i tell you that is total bull shit.
As for players going over seas and( there are many of them) look at what was on offer at home and how long their development would take.
Selection is not working and far from it with IMO no possibility of ever working properly.
I actually would not know where to start to fix the problem.

It doesn't help with the mass amount of pointless private academies floating around, these entities are just interested in making $$$ nothing else, so they will block or close off the players chances of making to the elite pathway here even its extremely narrow at times, just so they keep there prized assets so they can use it to make $$$ mostly for a overseas move or they use it as bait for a NPL club.

The interest should be about the player and where he sees fit for his career in the game, i agree the player pathway is too narrow which doesn't help the FFA causes against the fight against the private academies, which means many more players will try another avenues instead of going to the club based system or the FFA based system.

But the best players should going to the FFA, or at least the NPL pathways aligned with the A-League clubs in tandom.

In the end of the day a lot of these talented want a clear pathway, and if they can't get a sniff here they will go overseas, at times in desperate measures.

Overall the player pathway has improved a bit, but the gaps still need filling in every state, as stated in a previous thread in Aus. Football every A-League club needs to have a academy set up ASAP along with the good work of the state feds and the recent restructure of the second tier(NPL), it will open more opportunities for our juniors.

At the moment a lot of the talent juniors are still looking for a way overseas, either through the FFA pathways or mostly through the private academy or some selfish NPL clubs in the bigger states. Its due to the lack of faith of the pathways here, its all about the opportunities in the end, they all want to make it football and everyone has a eye overseas still first.

There is talent in this country, we always produced good players, but the major issues have always been about the coaching and the small or limited player pathway.

Edited by Barca4life: 21/2/2014 11:31:56 PM

IME the players are out there they just are not in the institutions that the ffa think they should be in.

have to say im pretty disheartened by your comments decentric regarding the quality of players coming through. I had some high hopes for the next batch of under 16s.

IMO there is too much nepotisim in the present system and not poor player quality. It starts at U12 and works its way through.The system that was in Victoria where scouts would come and watch a player recommended by a club but also see others playing was IMO a better system of talent identification than the present one. I know of a private academe with some excellent players who are not available for state selection due to the present process.

That could be the case too.





Edited by Decentric: 21/2/2014 01:18:59 PM

I think it is more of a question of the innate talent of the cohort groups.

The players may have been better coached, but lack the inherent talent for top level international players of the quality FFA want to produce.

I think, and I may be wrong, the under 14s are considered a better cohort than the under 15s.

#-o

Edited by Decentric: 21/2/2014 01:18:12 PM

I suspect the FFA or even the PFA may have a view that they don't want young kids being probed and investigated by the football media at young ages.

Why is that? Why has the quality of players have gone backwards from previous years, should it be getting better since the new development has kicked in since 2010? :-k

Quite a concern if its the case...

In the last year, the upper echelons of FFA have been disappointed with the calibre of players at FFA sanctioned tournaments, but have given this state credit for narrowing the gap in standard. This state has been given a tick for improved quality of footballers.

However, few have gone on to HAL and W League contracts. Per capita head it may be okay. Yet we are still way behind cricket and hockey.

We are also about three years behind the ACT in football development.

Some of the posters on here have relatives who play at the various NTC/state tournaments around Australia. One 442 member even contacted me about one held in Hobart, because there was no info available through FFA.

I struggled to find out about it. A journo mate of mine was pretty vexed about the lack of info from FFA.

I can see the arguments from both sides.

The football media claim they should be able to view tournaments and write about them. They consider the public has a right to be informed. Sounds plausible enough at face value.

FFA tacitly considers very little of the media understand football well enough to have the requisite critical level to appraise tournaments. Now the onus is on style of play, not results.

The media often evaluate according to results, and I agree, apart from the former pro players and coaches who work in the TV media, and the likes of Kate Cohen and Walter Pless, there is dearth of analytical ability in the current print football media. Or, their media bosses don't want analysis.

Hence, FFA tend to keep NTC/state tournaments a fairly secretive affair.





Edited by Decentric: 21/2/2014 11:37:34 AM