Sorry I was wrong for six whole weeks, even though Nabbout started in Round 2 that season in the seniors anyway. Your initial point is still invalid however, as both Nabbout and Mahazi were signed by Ange from VPL senior teams and didn't rise up through the AIS or NYL previous to their VPL club progression.

I actually have to agree with you here.

Nabbout played one preseason match with a group of senior and NYL players against Altona Magic and was given a senior contract. Mahazi was also given a senior contract after a short trial after the end of the last VPL season.

If they were signed for the NYL they would have been given NYL contracts, and the club would have saved some money.

#facts.

Nabbout played for MV before he even got a full contract.
Mahazi was a last minute signing originally there for the youth team.

Incorrect. They were both given senior deals.

They joined MV through the youth team setup.

I've read the article a number of times and there's no suggestion that the club was pushing players towards representing Croatia.

The club has sent players of Croatian and non-Croatian heritage to Croatia over over the years

Standard attiude from average Aussie soccer fans though. If one of the "wog" clubs dares to establish links with clubs overseas it's because they're trying to funnel players to another national team. When other clubs forge links with Rangers/Liverpool/West Ham/Man City they're doing it for the good of the game

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Couldn't agree more, a deeper pool for more opportunities at a better level for senior talent, and a place for A-League coaches to "cast the net wide" as I've heard Ange in person say he prefers to do.

Not to mention the off-field benefit of a higher profile second division.

At Victory, Ange signed Andrew Nabbout from Moreland Zebras and Rashid Mahazi from Northcote City.

Neither went anywhere near the AIS.

Edited by paladisious: 3/3/2014 03:07:37 PM

We have learnt to with Sydney Croatia supporters being in constant denial. Thanks for one of the link as I'm sure there have been many more reports similar. I like this bit in this one................

Very good point.

One I've tried to make, but not as succinctly as Barca.=d>

This is particularly applicable to the bigger states.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/07/12/ffa-not-happy-if-croatia-draws-on-australian-system/

:lol:

Please provide some examples to back this up.

I wont be holding my breath

Pretty sure MV were banging on about 'advanced plans' for the club's academy - sometime last year. Heard nothing else since, but one would hope it's true. Add into the 20 year licence's and there should be a fair bit of incentive to get cracking.

Re pathways, I think it's important to realise that gradually we are getting there. Barlow talked about setting up an academy, bringing players through from the ground up (hopefully not lip service). Mariners are doing it as are a number of others already.

Eventually they will go down to U10s or similar and we will get the structure we want.

Of course a second division would be great but has to make financial sense.

People talk about how poor coaches are when identifying player ID, but people need to realise is that how can you select players properly when the player pathway is just too narrow! Its almost a given a talented will always miss out.

If WSW and Sydney FC had youth academies running from under 10s and above there would be a good chance that someone like a Vranic would have identified given the player pathway would be a lot more larger.

As much i didn't like how the NSL was run, they did one thing right and that was there player pathway was wider than todays age, i.e 4 or 5 sydney clubs to choose from.

Whether a second division can work depends how well the NPL goes into the long run, i guess its a AFC requirement for 2020 i think? anyway the reality is that we always produced players to a decent level but the main reason why they go overseas more often is because the reason the player pathway is ok for the ones that are in system it just there isn't enough room for the majority for the talented to play here.

Imagine trying to fit people into a ship but the reality there isn't enough room given the ship is just a small boat instead?

Thats my beef anyway, the players are fine its the pathways that the major problem that holding back our potential here in this country.

quality post. We need a genuine 2nd division
east coast only is more feasible.
no promo rel makes everything more feasible
running it in the off season means u have a clear target market in a league fans sad the season is over. There should be enough of them to run a professional competition with small crowds packing out boutique stadiums

SYdney United must have rejected him as he went to Parramatta, so whats this got to do with Croatian clubs.
I would imagine his parents paid for him to go to Croatia and ,maybe used some influence.
Anthony Seric made Croatia's 1998 world cup squad supposedly due to his parents having money.

Interesting that Vranic's name has now been removed from the Dinamo academy wiki page. Someone didn't want him there any more!

From what he was saying he sounds like he's leaning a lot more to Australia than Croatia. No problems with him being respectful of a country offering him an opportunity. He quotes Johnny Warren a few times and says nothing hinting that his heart lies with Croatia.

Youth games mean nothing, still plenty of time to assess and select him in the future... If he keeps on banging in goals for the rest of the season then maybe he'll get a look into one of Okon's next camps. When are the next round of young Socceroos games anyway? Better to get some experience than no experience.

As for Mells, he's previously captained the Joeys if i'm not mistaken. Hardly being snubbed by the FFA. But yes he should get a callup to Oz youth squads involving European players. Wouldn't make a huge amount of sense to come out all the way to Australia to have a kick around at Leichhardt Oval for a few days and go home.

Any experience is good experience from a player's p.o.v. Piscopo is the only one which we may lose out on. Smith has too much competition for the England squad, but he still has to prove himself before he gets a callup with us.

.

This is bullshit given the history of Croatian clubs in Australia pushing for their players to play for their mother country first and foremost.

Can you name a single player Ange or Anold have hired direct from the state leagues.
Generally players are hired after being selected first in the youth team, someone like Franjic brought in by Farina is someone who was hired direct.
Arnold selects younger AIS or ex A-league or overseas players and bypasses the state leagues.
Mustafa Amini AIS Sainsbury AIS
Phil Moss has just brought in two state league players.

From a different perspective, sometimes some kids have a shocking attitude problem and can be considered a bad influence on a whole team.

Even if very talented, the principle of utilitarianism can be applied. That is the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

We don't know the individual traits of some players axed from squads.

In Robbie Slater's book he tells of his brother coaching a guy who was a really bad influence on other players, and constantly disruptive, so he booted him out of a team. His name is well known to all - probably the greatest player produced in Australia. Christian Vieri, who played for Italy.

Edited by Decentric: 3/3/2014 09:42:32 AM

Best thing said in this thread by a country mile.

Interesting post.

One HAL Youth League coach says he can find a most of the best players in one state at the NTC.

In another state, he claims the now NPL clubs have discouraged players from attending NTC programs and finds some gems in state league programs devoid of FFA elite development.

I've heard of nepotism and cronyism being rife.

Last year when we selected a FFA youth rep team as a precursor to FFA state team football, I had never set eyes on the players before.

I thought I was totally unbiased in selections at trials. Seven players previously involved in FFA elite programs were known to the co-selector. They were probably looked upon favourably by him, but a few others didn't convince me from previous FFA programs and just made the cut.

Yet some players were good enough, but just didn't performa at the trials. I later managed to select them in the squad annoying some of my seniors in the FFA system for breaking protocol. I basically told them to get stuffed. I thought the player was more important than the protocol, a perspective not shared by some others. Some coaches in positions of great responsibility and powercan become very elitist and callous.

Many players who missed out on selection and their parents were unhappy. They were not selected, because they weren't deemed good enough, or, didn't perform at the trials. The next year could've been different.

Over the year many of the kids who struggled to make the cut, overtook the players formerly in elite programs. Some even made the state team.
It would have been impossible to accuse me/us of nepotism or cronyism in selection trials. Players were selected based on strict criteria:

1. Technique in match play: First Touch, Running With The Ball, 1v1 Attacking and Defensive skills, Striking The Ball.

2. Insight in games: Game sense.

3. Communication in games.

The first two criteria were paramount. The third could be improved more easily than the first two criteria. Also, conditioning could be improved over a rep season.

I'd hate to think there were players and parents out there still accusing me of nepotism or cronyism.

Having said that I know other coaches in the FFA system who without any equivocation, could be accused of cronyism, but they would be the exception not the norm. Most are very, very fair. Sometimes I was denied access to players who had dropped out of higher level FFA programs, without being given sufficient reason why.

Sometimes FFA coaches are pissed off with players who leave elite programs, because they've had enough, and don't make things easy for them after they leave. From a discussion with a player agent I'v even known one NTC coach laugh at a player who was considering taking up a contract with an EPL club, being told he wasn't good enough. This is abuse of power.

In the big states, as I understand it, there are very few positions for the NTC - about 20 -30 per state. There must be a back up system, which FFA has now prescribed for NPL clubs, to run training programs on similar lines to FFA.

Eventually, FFA will devolve all development coaching to the clubs. This is now being done with the Skills Acquisition Program being done by NPL clubs. I'm assuming HAL clubs will be forced to run development programs like NPL clubs are now. This is the same as overseas. It will also enable more players to be 'developed.'


Hopefully, from this, there will be less players told they are not good enough in Australia. Some coaches are being ignorant telling players this when they are young.

There are a number of people/organisations who have issues with the National Curriculum.

Nearly all who do, have little insight in the NC due to not taking part in Advanced Coach Education with FFA ( or anywhere else); are involved in profit making private soccer academies; media pundits who have not undertaken FFA Advanced Coach education; trained coaches as highly qualified as those involved in the HAL and FFA, but disgruntled because they cannot secure a job in football in Aus; sacked coaches from FFA; stakeholders in football who have not kept abreast of contemporary football; etc.

Now in the HAL at senior level, most coaches are playing a style of football conducive to the style FFA wants to see played. They are playing this way, not only because it is aesthetically pleasing to fans, but primarily because its efficacy is seen in quality performance, hence, winning football.

Coaches are playing 1-4-3-3 and it s derivatives in the HAL. They see it as the best way to win games in Australia, apart from using 4-4-2 in Ball Possession Opposition.

FFA does not prescribe playing any formation at senior level.


Even though I dislike Australians playing for other countries, it will become less significant as we produce a greater quantity of quality players from about five years onwards, when the the first products of the new system reach 20 years old and continue after.

Having been involved in the lower echelons of the FFA coaching system, I don' t like young players being identified as elite at early ages. To me ability seems to evolve differently at different ages. Brian Clough said he was a mediocre player at 15 years of age, yet went on to become a very heavy scoring striker in England and played for the national team.

I think it is folly for any coach to tell players they are 'not good enough' in embryonic stages of their development. Tim Cahill was told this, so was Robbie Slater, in their teens.

I see it as a problem of Talent Identification and Oppurtunity, yet again. Most A-League Coaches, seniors and youth, are using their networks and going to AIS and NTC as the source of players. Postecoglou and Arnold the major exceptions who would select players from lower levels based on their requiremnets and observations.

I've said it before, and others too, that a second tier, national eastern seaboard, semi-professional league, running con-currently with the A-League is required. And no promotion to the A-League is not required.

This would effectively be the development shop window for the game in Australia and would improve the standard of general play and deepen the player pool.

We can't say that the FFA haven't done their utmost to try and bring Brad Smith back into the fold. I don't know the details. Thing is that he's the most high-profile player to be jumping ship, at the moment. Even if the FFA is not at fault with respect to Brad Smith, there are too many others who have been personally alienated/neglected by the FFA or who can't hack the culture of nepotism where it does exist (I'm not saying that's everywhere) or who just plain don't like the National Curriculum (probably because it has not been too great at producing players who can do things on their own).

Australian football has a history of poor player management at youth level, whether or not Smith is an example of this. The point is two of our most talented teenage footballers don't look like they'll play for Australia, and potentially a third as well.