IPOD wrote:

Gombau has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

1> Always pass the ball forward if you have a line of sight pass
2> Always Open your body to receive the ball on an angle away from where the pass originated.
3> Never receive the on/with the side/foot that the original pass came from ie: if you have a rb pass inside to the central midfielder he /she should NEVER control with their right foot. The ball should allow the ball to roll across the body to create a shield onto the left foot and movement away from the press of the other team.
4> If you have no line of sight pass keep possession move horizontally, diagonally until you find a line of sight pass.
5> Players without the ball must be present to receive the ball in a 45 degree angle a minimum of 3 players rotating to receive the ball AT ALL TIMES!
6> 1v1 showboating, dribbling is only performed in the opposition half and only when there is no one forward to pass to or move to.


Edited by Decentric: 21/4/2014 05:28:14 PM

> If the ball is passed from the right moving to the left, don't control the ball with the right foot it will only increase the chance of the opposition press succeeding because you just stopped the ball from travelling quickly away from danger area. That is why he says let the ball roll across your body and move the ball quickly to another area in order to try and create a 2v1 or 3v1 situation further up the field.

A few things I didn't mention but he repeats all the time.

1: Always pass the ball at super speed, never a soft pass.
2: For Short passing to succeed the close proximity of players allows for control of the ball but most importantly the recovery of the ball from a bad pass or interception. If players are far apart when passing and you lose the ball you have less players in a specific area to recover the ball quickly with a super fast press.
3> If you are not being pressed you must carry the ball to draw a player towards you before making a forward pass. It's akin to sucking in a pawn before you make the next killer move.

Posted By IPOD

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/rD8IeweMl4/

Spanish football frowns on this that is why they must buy messi, nah a and rohnaldenio. They can not produce dribblers. It is also the type of player that gives them the most problems.

passing Robots ?


“ teachers of the game have disappeared from
training programmes to be replaced by coaches
with a style that is too academic with a scientific
basis to support their theories.
If there is no freedom there is no creativity.”
Jorge Valdano, Sporting Director – Real Madrid 2005

I have had trouble using this. Is therea simple way of using I am not aware of.

I'm not sure.

I haven't yet opened it successfully.

Thanks for posting Decentric.

I'm interested to know if he has a "rule" in regards to what a player should do when in possession in and around the 18 yard box.

On a number of occasions in the A league a player in possession within the box will look to pass as his first action when I feel a shot should have been made. While personally I'm of the view that a player in the box, in possession of the ball should be looking to shoot as a first instinct rather then looking for a pass.

I feel that Australian attackers in the A league lack that real desire and drive to score a goal. You could say id like to see some strikers be more selfish and take it upon themselves to score the winning goal.

Edited by roar #1 : 17/4/2014 03:35:21 PM

This, I think that is why the Japanese went Brazillian (no pun intended), rather than going pure possesion
based football.
Ask yourself one question, do you prefer the foorball played by Bayern Munchen by Guardiola or Hynckes?
Myself, I would rather watch a Jupp Hynckes team any day, to what Bayern are today.

I'm going to break down a lot of the Gombau methodology and compare it to what I've done with KNVB and FFA. I've been bit busy at times lately with work.

It is certainly more prescriptive, but it also has advantages in being more specific.

Looking forward to your findings Decentric. :)

I wonder what you think of some of the skeptics who are outside of the system who think that the NC will produce robots instead of instinctive and creative footballers…what are your thoughts on that, do you recognise that when coaching?

Edited by Barca4life: 17/4/2014 04:02:02 PM

Barca4life
Even barcelona accadome admit that they can not produce all the types of players they need.
That is why the need to buy players with creative dribbling skills like messi, naymah and ronaldinho.
With out these players barca would not of archived what it has.
Is this not true?

Gombau has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

1> Always pass the ball forward if you have a line of sight pass



KNVB suggests pass forwards if you can, with a long pass. Nothing about line of sight. I'm assuming Gomabau means having a viable passing lane open.

There is nothing as prescriptive in the FFA NC. The FFA NC is keen for coaches to arrive at answers themselves, not be told. This also applies to players. Having said this, what Gombau suggests makes sense and clarifies what I've learnt through both methodologies.

He has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

2> Always Open your body to receive the ball on an angle away from where the pass originated.


This is interesting.

This is prescribing one should receive the ball with the inside of the foot, whilst facing forwards. The KNVB and FFA NC don't suggest this. It makes a lot sense, but the question the FFA NC would ask through a coaching cue, would be, "What is the best position to receive the ball to play forwards?"

This puts the onus on the player making the decision. The only decision receiving with the inside of the foot to an angled pass, is to open the body to receive the ball at an angle away from where the pass originated to play forwards. Ange P conducted a coaching session with a state TD who I know quite well. The message was the same from both coaches having conferred and jointly planned the session.

However, if a player were to receive the ball with the outside of the foot, one would be leaning into the direction of the pass as the player receives the ball. There is more chance of beating a player with a first touch here through the fake, breaking the line. However, breaking the line can also be done with the inside of the foot by opening one's body away from where the pass originated, but that positioning in relation to the defender a has to be spot on and the timing when receiving the pass has little margin for error.

I've had some pretty good coaches concerned that I introduce receiving the ball with the outside of both feet early on, but it is what the state head Skills Acquisition Program trainer does. He wrote part of the FFA NC.

One would hope most payers do what Gombau advocates automatically. According the the FFA NC if they do, they don't need to think about it. If they are making a mistake, then it is the coach's job to suggest alternatives according to the FFA NC.

To me it is extremely important and becoming more so that a players technic is perfect when receiving and passing the ball with the inside of the foot or I should say feet. Until it is perfect I will not let them use the outside of the foot.

Australian players are too quick to accept near enough. Stop it now that is why we fail against good opposition.

Edited by krones3: 17/4/2014 07:13:41 PM

Most coaches I know agree with you. That includes a former pro who played for AEK Athens, and a former regional FFA TD in NSW (who may have changed recently).

The state head SAP trainer introduces the outside of the foot a lot earlier. I tend to do this too. I think most coaches in the FFA system do this too, but I'm not absolutely sure about this.

I tend to think one can continue to develop receiving with the inside and outside of both feet. It wasn't until I came across the state SAP trainer I found someone else doing it. He also has some brilliant exercises (from Han Berger) to develop this.

Edited by Decentric: 17/4/2014 07:20:59 PM

Do you get frustrated when you see a league players continually mess up passes?

Gombau has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

3> Never receive the on/with the side/foot that the original pass came from ie: if you have a rb pass inside to the central midfielder he /she should NEVER control with their right foot. The ball should allow the ball to roll across the body to create a shield onto the left foot and movement away from the press of the other team.



This again makes sense receiving with the inside of the foot.

It is an advanced move to receive with the outside of the right foot closest to the right back.

I'm sure the SAP trainer would encourage the receiving of the ball with foot closest to the right back with the outside of the foot too.

I've encouraged players to receive with the inside of the foot, in this case receiving a diagonal pass going infield from the right back, using the inside of the left foot and the ball rolling across the body. Last year most of the players from clubs, who had not previously been in the SAP, had not been coached to do this.

Edited by Decentric: 17/4/2014 07:30:00 PM

No.

Just have them passing closer together to achieve success.

I don't get frustrated, because my profession dictates I have to be patient.

Great read! I hope to one day get some youth badges myself

I'd contend the sceptics are:

1. Coaches who have not updated their coaching methodology.
2. Coaches who have been overlooked by FFA, the HAL and even the NPL in some cases.
3. Gullible people for believing the two aforementioned categories.


The Skills Acquisition Program has a large component, about 25%, of developing 1v1 defensive and attacking skills. One week out of every four will be based on 1v1 in the SAP.

So developing 1v1 skills is different from producing passing robots.

No.

Just have them passing closer together to achieve success.

I don't get frustrated, because my profession dictates I have to be patient.[/quote

I said A league players not the kids. But you are correct don't get frustrated with the kids be patient but insist on perfection.
End of conversation.

Interesting comment.

Iniesta performs a very good La Croqueta, beating players with an inside of one foot touch, followed by the inside of the opposite foot, diagonally, and in quick succession.

Navas and Pedro, both Spanish national team players, perform effective step overs and shoulder feints and can beat players.

Sometimes Torres can perform an effective Mathews Cut.

I have just returned from Spain they have trouble dealing with dribblers. Every team from 1 to 10 is trying to buy/make one.they even know this is a problem for them.

Yeah i thought so too, they also seem to think have a 'they know it all' mentality regardless of there playing degree, perhaps these snobs need to do some research in player development. :D

His skill rules are:
- Strong pass
- Pass in Front to progress
- Body position ready to progress - open body facing field of play
- Control with the furthest foot
- Run with the ball if you have space after control for you to "fix" your opponent
- 1v1, crossing or shooting if possible such as attacking down the wing, looking for goal, during attacking periods NOT if there is a pass on or inside own defensive area. Encourage kids to use 1v1 when in the correct situations.
- If you have a line of pass, must pass the ball (line of pass - no one between you and your teammate). Some key rules for line of pass is never 2 team mates in the same line of pass and pass and move, the player with the ball needs to have minimum of 2 options.
- No line of pass, keep the ball, run with the ball find the line of pass
- No square pass

Some other points:

In regards to passing use the surface contact of the foot depending on the situation, the position of your teammates and your opponents are in for example short passing inside of foot, longer passes instep. When you are close to opponents use inside of the foot, although lose some of the speed of execution you gain in terms of control of the ball.

The aim is to control and guide the ball at the same time through making contact just once, using the ideal and most appropriate surface of contact in a natural manner. Control with the foot furthest away from where the ball is coming in order to get a better field of vision and promote peripheral vision.

Change of direction with 1 or 2 touches of the ball using inside or outside of the foot and use arm to protect and shield the ball from opponent.

1v1 - physical or technical feint before contact with the ball to trick defender, outward movement with outer side of foot to move ball away from opponent putting your body between the defender and ball (start move about 1 meter from opponent) and change of pace to make most of our movements and leave the defender behind.

Always think about the next move.

Sounds much better and more like barca except for never make a square pass.

The SAP program may all have the 'magic exercises' but as each session is 1 hour comprising 1. technique -unopposed 2. skill opposed 3. game the actual delivery will vary , some coaches observed will do do 45 mins of 1. then 10 mins of 2 and 5 mins game, others will put more time in the opposed and game.
So the outcomes will be different even though the same exercises are used.

The square pass is one I am still not sure of and want to raise with him. I believe it is only allowed in defensive area with no pressure and relates to passing the ball forward of the player (but start again i.e. go backwards if no line of pass going forward or if no crossing opportunity i.e. no one in the box).

It is something he has mentioned during his demonstration drills that if the square pass is intercepted it will put 2 team mates out of position to recover. This is the only thing I have not introduced to my U10 team. The rest of the key points have had a big impact on their skills and game play. I have worked his theories with the FFA NC he just fills the gaps in a simple to understand way for the coach and for the younger players.

But as he say's this is my style and what I believe in and you need to determine what is your style and rules.


Edited by justafan: 18/4/2014 06:10:48 PM

Sound very similar to mine. I just don't like making solid laws for kids and letting them learn when too and when not too.

[Edited by justafan: 18/4/2014 05:46:19 PM[/quote]
Sound very similar to mine. I just don't like making solid laws for kids and letting them learn when too and when not too.[/quote]

Yep agree, I have not spelled out the rules to the kids (U10) and said this is how to play i.e. you have to pass the ball if you have a line of pass.

We (the coaches) use them as a guide to gradually implement so we can play possession based and the kids gradually make better decisions as they have the skills to do so. But we let them make the decisions during the game.

For example better body position by using the furthest foot so they can see the field of play allows them to see more options or by saying if you see the back of your player move to either side so the other player with the ball can see you. This is opposed to just move into space which most at this age do not really understand what it means, it gives them a point they can understand to work from. We have moved from focusing on the drills to one of using the rules to help us guide the players during the drills. In fact Gombau drills for kids are basic at this age group.

There are probably lots of ways to teach things but these methods seem to be working and building kids confidence and are simple to implement. You really have to see the training sessions to appreciate what is really being taught.

Edited by justafan: 20/4/2014 07:49:08 AM

I did not get frustrated watch the amount of pathetic turn overs or poor passes in the big blue.:oops:

This is often the doctrine of older coaches.

The FFA NC perception on this, is play with the foot most likely to achieve the desired outcome. It is often applicable, but not always. This of course, is applicable to receiving with the inside of the foot.

If a wide player receives the ball in a wide position, from a diagonal ball, the closer foot can produce a more favourable outcome if the body shape of the player is facing side on to the passer. That is, with the back, adjacent to the boundary line.




Edited by Decentric: 21/4/2014 04:40:14 PM

You would have to concede , surely, that Victory are playing a style of possession football, quite well at times.

It may not be perfect, yet, or as good as the Iberian leagues, but it is a step in the right direction.

Gombau has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

4> If you have no line of sight pass keep possession move horizontally, diagonally until you find a line of sight pass.





I've never learnt this through FFA or KNVB. The best I've heard has been keep the ball moving at all times, some years ago from FFA's Norm Boardman, but not as prescriptively as this.

It shows the value of being exposed to different methodologies. I've seen a lot of NTC coaching sessions, also plus the upper echelons of FFA, Berger, Cross, Edwards, Sherman and Boardman, and CCM's Moss as well as Pim take the Socceroos for sessions.

This is something new for me.

In terms of playing forwards, Spencer Prior, former EPL CB and current Tassie FFA TD, says play wide if you cannot play forwards.








Edited by Decentric: 19/4/2014 03:56:43 PM

Andy Harper, Fox pundit and former semi-pro player in the NSL, claims Aussie players are more profligate around goal than Brazil. He claims when you see club sessions there the teams practise shooting more than we do. With due respect, he is a very intelligent man, but to the best of my knowledge, he would have had mediocre coaching in the NSL. I'm pretty sure he hasn't undergone FFA Advanced Coach Education like other TV pundits Craig Foster, Mark Rudan and David Zdrilic.

He could well be right about Brazil though. Individually, players need to train with a a few other players in goal scoring exercises. Practice should make perfect.

I will concede that some youth coaches are too stupid too lazy or just incompetent to insure that players are capable of passing and receiving correctly with the inside of the foot before teaching them other more advanced skills.

IPOD wrote:

Gombau has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

5> Players without the ball must be present to receive the ball in a 45 degree angle a minimum of 3 players rotating to receive the ball AT ALL TIMES!



Interesting.:-k

Both KNVB and FFA NC, recommend opening angled passing lanes, but 45 degrees is not prescribed.

However, the question would be posed for players, "What is the most effective angle for me to receive the ball to effectively move or play forwards?"

Of course, 45 degrees is close to the optimum, because a player can scan the field of play effectively at the same time as they receive the ball, and let the ball roll across the body.

Again though, I like the way it is prescribed by Gomabu, as long as players know why it is the most effective angle to receive a ball to play forwards.

The other term KNVB uses is the diagonal ball, which I've usually used. I'm not sure if it is suggested by FFA NC? I've been so heavily inculcated with the diagonal ball phrase from KNVB before doing most of my FFA NC courses.

Edited by Decentric: 21/4/2014 05:24:04 PM[/quote]

IPOD wrote:

Gombau has six rules for all football teams u6 to adults.

6> 1v1 showboating, dribbling is only performed in the opposition half and only when there is no one forward to pass to or move to.



KNVB hasn't stated this.

FFA NC hasn't stated it.


However, as a coach I encourage showboating at training.

Im keen for players to try this in the attacking third. I coach a lot of tricks, 1v1 evasion techniques , but I will probably concede if a player can do the standard cut on both sides of the body, and the shoulder feint on the left and right side of the body, it is enough.

I also coach flashy turns too, that Gombau would call showboating.

I'm sure this isn't done by most coaches within FFA system, but I like to pass them on. Many teenagers say they don't need them, not taking on board that Ronaldo, Messi, Robben, Ribery and Neymar use them.








Edited by Decentric: 21/4/2014 05:37:54 PM

> If the ball is passed from the right moving to the left, don't control the ball with the right foot it will only increase the chance of the opposition press succeeding because you just stopped the ball from travelling quickly away from danger area. That is why he says let the ball roll across your body and move the ball quickly to another area in order to try and create a 2v1 or 3v1 situation further up the field.

Posted By IPOD


Bit bemused by this.:-k

I think I've responded to it before by receiving with the closest foot, the right, on the outside of the foot. I think this can work too, depending on where the defender is.

A few things I didn't mention but Gombau repeats all the time.

1: Always pass the ball at super speed, never a soft pass.

Posted By IPOD




The KNVB also strongly advocates this.

Hilariously, a plethora of experienced coaches and fans across Australia, ridiculed it, and still do, when I raised this on forums.](*,)

If one watches any top football team, if they are not playing in front of a player for him/her to run onto, they will really pass the ball hard and fast to prevent opposition intercepts.

This is reinforced by some of the top NTC coaches I've observed/been mentored by. Also, the KNVB push this too.

The reason being, is that it is easy to split a defence if the ball is intercepted in the defensive half. A slight diagonal angle on a pass is infinitely better.

One thing I haven't read in the Gombau methodology, that is advocated in the good NTC coaches I've seen, a state TD and Ange P, is not to play straight balls. That is a ball passed straight up the pitch, say from one goal to another.

Another way to describe a straight ball, is passing a ball parallel to the boundary line up the pitch from defence to attack. It is to do with the player receiving it, having an awkward body shape to play forwards, unless s/he has no opposition player within close proximity.

If one receives the ball diagonally, it is far easier to play forwards and scan the field of play as one is receiving it. Good players, like Mark Milligan, usually have a quick look over the shoulder if receiving a straight ball from further back in the field, the team trying to build up to the attacking half. There are even some HAL players who don't do this, demonstrating shocking coaching in their formative years prior to 2008.

I've been watching World Cup finals as recent as 1994 and prior in previous epochs. All the teams seem to play straight balls, even top teams in the world.







Edited by Decentric: 23/4/2014 06:19:23 PM

The 1v1 not being advisable in one's own defensive half, was probably the norm even before 2005 in rep programs.



Interesting Gombau encourages children to try 1v1. This is the opposite of what Krones saw in his trip to Spain.

As I say, I've coached flashy Brazilian 1v1 attacking moves under the auspices of FFA in the rep milieu, at the level below state underage teams, but maybe this doesn't come under the definition of what Gombau calls, 'showboating.'

The techniques all assist a player to beat opponents in 1v1s.






Edited by Decentric: 22/4/2014 07:33:42 PM

disagree correct weight is better.

A few things I didn't mention but Gombau repeats all the time.

2: For Short passing to succeed the close proximity of players allows for control of the ball but most importantly the recovery of the ball from a bad pass or interception. If players are far apart when passing and you lose the ball you have less players in a specific area to recover the ball quickly with a super fast press.

Posted By IPOD





This is not something I've heard before.

Edited by Decentric: 23/4/2014 06:10:18 PM

KNVB calls this opening passing lanes.

In the FFA NC, modelled on Barcelona, they advocate a left, right, central long, central short passing lane to be opened to support the player on the ball.

It is pretty hard to achieve on a regular basis.

The faster a ball travels and the better first touch of the player receiving it, the less possibility for an opponent to intercept the pass.

KNVB advocate this, as well as Gombau, with him deriving his philosophy from Barca/Spain.

Edited by Decentric: 23/4/2014 06:23:19 PM

too many passes have too much on them and go by the player who has no chance of caching them. Correct weight as required is better.

Of course a hard hit pass must be accurate too. An inaccurate hard hit pass is a big problem to recover.

the NC is wrong and should instead suggest correct weight depending on the situation.

I haven't seen this in the FFA NC, but Gombau and KNVB suggest it is importat to pass hard if playing a pass directly at a player.

If one passes in front of the player for them to run onto, weighting becomes paramount as you suggest.

and trajectory ie to a winger curve the ball into the path of his run.

Edited by krones3: 23/4/2014 08:23:21 PM

Very embarrassing passing by CCM v Hiroshima nothing to do with the pace poor technic and accuracy.
:oops: :oops:

I didn't think CCM were too bad.

If I compare it to what I see in the the Spanish and Portuguese leagues and the top teams of the EPL it is pretty poor, but these are the best players/teams in the world.

Importantly, most Aussie teams are playing from back to front with diagonal passing lanes being opened. This enables players to have a better chance of having the correct body shape to play forwards. I think it is important to celebrate improvement, rather than what we could do better.

The young Victory players, Makarounas, Pain, Murnane, Geria, Galloway, Ansell, etc, have being able to play through tight spaces in midfield against Asia's best at senior level. Darren Davies is doing a good job as Victory youth coach.

A few things I didn't mention but Gombau repeats all the time.


3> If you are not being pressed you must carry the ball to draw a player towards you before making a forward pass. It's akin to sucking in a pawn before you make the next killer move.

Posted By IPOD[/b][/i]




This makes sense and something I've preached for a while to players. Even the old rep programs prior to 2005 would've had coaches imparting this.

For some reason, 13-14 year old boys seem to struggle with concepts that should be common sense, like this.](*,)

Edited by Decentric: 24/4/2014 06:35:01 PM

He doesn't mention passing with the outside of the foot, which is good for close range passing. One also inadvertently fakes too, when passing with the outside of the foot. This wrong foots the opponent and gives them less time to see which direction the pass is going, so it is difficult to intercept .

What Gombau says above is consistent with KNVB and FFA NC.



What the FFA NC would do is pose questions for players to find the solution for themselves

FFA NC, "Which surface of the foot is best for short range passing? Why?"


Edited by Decentric: 24/4/2014 06:43:46 PM

Makes sense because it is common sense. Particularly to younger players who instinctively do this. Kids that don't do it have been over-coached/ poorly coached at some key stage in their development.

Any further updates or information on Gombau's coach the coaches sessions?

We have adopted his principles this year with great results. Hope he does another one.

Who is we?

And what did you learn from his coach education?

U10 team.

Biggest impact probably controlling the ball using the inside of the furthest foot leading to improvement in body position, quicker movement of the ball as the player is in a better position and players being forced to use their weaker foot. I would recommend all players in this age group learn this before moving to outside of foot, I find those players become one sided and one footed players as they never use their weaker foot.

Also the way he coached 1 v 1 has improved the players ability to beat players.

But we introduced a lot more of his suggestions as the season progressed and do not have time to go into more detail expect to say it took time but the improvement in the boys has been excellent and we look forward to expanding on this further at U11 level.



Edited by justafan: 5/9/2014 03:47:46 PM