Jesus Christ...

Can see this going well in the media :lol:

-PB

Man shot dead, two counter-terrorism officers stabbed outside Endeavour Hills police station
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/man-shot-dead-two-counterterrorism-officers-stabbed-outside-endeavour-hills-police-station/story-fni0fee2-1227068293410

Well put.

To argue against a religion or belief system always appears to offend the person or group involved. This is because that people (not everyone) take their beliefs as fundamental to their identity, when in fact it is just a social construct cemented over their life by a relative authority figure/s.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a religion or belief system, but when it aims at the person or group in question then it become unethical. For example, if someone argued with me about spirituality I wouldn't be offended, but when they attack me to degrade my confidence in the idea of spirituality then I would be. People aren't exclusively Muslim, Christian or Jewish; they are people who just reside in that cultural framework. I wish that anti-religious, anti-cultural wankers would refer to them as people, not as whatever cultural label they've been conditioned into using.

Here's the truth... Brilliantly put by comedian Patton Oswalt...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w

Posted over here http://au.fourfourtwo.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=95605&p=3

But needs to be posted here also. Brilliant.

Theists talking to an Atheist.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=674437639309077

I have, but it is a firm belief that Islam never 'evolved'.

It is. It is probably why religion has become such a strong political tool. How convenient it is to say, for example, "Look at IS and these Islamic terrorists. Its because of these people that we need stronger terrorism laws. Its because of these things that we need to introduce million and one security checks at airports."

It also seems that atheism would be a good reason to take 'everyone along for a ride'.

Thats where you wrong. Islam was not the views and writings of Muhammad PBUH. Muhammed PBUH never once claimed Islam to be his and his alone. That would be your assumption.

Personally, all questions relating to modern things have been answered either in Quran, or hadith. I am yet to not find answers for myself in these areas. In saying that, that is my own personal view, I don't expect everyone to follow it or take it as the truth.

Talking about the apostles, I can't answer that questions for you. Not my religion. It seems that you take umbrage with Christianity in terms of modernism.

Another problem. Religious (and non religious) people take every criticism of their belief system (or lack there of) as some broad attack on every religious person.

There's no delicate way to attack a very open set of 'rules' without offending someone or everyone.

Yeah, I find them quite sad to be honest. I'm not religious, but having grown up in a religious family I get it and know more than the average non-religious person who just hacks embarrassingly at religion and religious people.

It frustrates me . Seriously religion shouldn't define a person to anyone . I have friends who aren't religious /atheist and we get along just fine . We speak about our beliefs and come to the conclusion that yes we may differ on certain things but we won't let get in the way of our friendship


Edited by mvfcarsenal16.8: 21/9/2014 04:22:41 PM

Don't bother mate. Some people are just so angry about anything religious that they just cannot be reason with. And yes, I did very carefully choose the phrase 'reasoned with'.

And who are you to decide that.

Youre best laid plans WILL NOT SUCCEED!

*hits cage with a baton to make deafening racket at the dogs caged inside*

Again why should I justify my beliefs to anyone who says that

agreed but to lump every religious person out there as card carrying bigot is wrong. i know plenty of people like myself who are religious but we dont advertise the fact we are as their tends be a anti religious sentiment out there . No matter what we say , or do we get called every name under the sun and get told our believes are wrong .

True but it was also organisations operating as non-tax paying churches who also opposed it.

With this in mind you can see how religions can cop a lot of flak.

Whatever floats your boat but have you ever given any thought as to how organised religions evolved?

If you were ever going to come up with a way of "bring everyone along for the ride" religion would be a pretty good vehicle for that.

Just think. Your life is, depending on how devout you are, based on the writings of some desert wandering arab who lived 1400 years ago. Christians are even worse. There beliefs are 2000+ years old.

I wonder what the apostles position on gene therapy and the NBN were.

Constable savage and his boss.



"Come in, shut the door."

"Yes, sir."

"Now then, Savage, I want to talk to you about some charges that you've been bringing lately. I think that perhaps you're being a little over-zealous."


"Which charges did you mean then, sir?"

"Well, for instance this one: 'Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing.' Savage, maybe you're not aware of this, but it is not illegal to use a pedestrian crossing, neither is 'smelling of foreign food' an offence."

"Are you sure, sir?"

"Also, there's no law against 'Urinating in a public convenience or 'Coughing without due care and attention."'

"If you say so, sir..."

"Yes, I do say so, Savage! Didn't they teach you anything at training school?"

"Erm, I'm sorry, sir..."

"Some of these cases are just plain stupid: 'Looking at me in a funny way' - Is this some kind of joke, Savage?"

"No, sir."

"And we have some more here: 'Walking on the cracks in the pavement,' 'Walking in a loud shirt in a built-up area during the hours of darkness,' and 'Walking around with an offensive wife.' In short, Savage, in the space of one month you have brought one hundred and seventeen ridiculous, trumped-up and ludicrous charges."

"Yes, sir."

"Against the same man, Savage."

"Yes, sir."

"A Mr Winston Kodogo, of 55, Mercer Road."

"Yes, sir."

"Sit down, Savage."

"Yes, sir."

"Savage, why do you keep arresting this man?"

"He's a villain, sir."

"A villain..."

"And a jail-bird, sir."

"I know he's a jail-bird, Savage, he's down in the cells now! We're holding him on a charge of 'Possession of curly black hair and thick lips."'

"Well - well, there you are, sir."

"You arrested him, Savage!"

"Thank you, sir."

"Savage, would I be correct in assuming that Mr Kodogo is a coloured gentleman?"

"Well, I can't say I've ever noticed, sir."

"Stand up, Savage! - Savage, you're a bigot. It's officers like you that give the police a bad name. The press love to jump on an instance like this, and the reputation of the force can be permanently tarnished. Your whole time on duty is dominated by racial hatred and petty personal vendettas. Do you get some kind of perverted gratification from going around stirring up trouble?"

"Yes, sir."

"There's no room for men like you in my force, Savage. I'm transferring you to the S.P.G. "

"Thank you very much, sir."

"- Now get out!"

Those idiots who protested the marriage acts are i dots . Why should people care if people are gay or not . As a Catholic I don't see a problem if two men or two women want to to get married . If their happy and content why shouldn't they afforded the luxury the rest of us have . Also the whole argument about it'll ruin children is baseless

..... sounds like abrahamic religions. People came up with them. The holy spirit didn't have a pen.

Well done mate 2 people in the entire world.....

People could be religious and not be so open about it but the majority seem to need to spread their religion. Why the hell is there so much religious symbolism in our lives? There are shrines to every kind of god everywhere. The problem people (including myself) have with religion is it suffocates everything we do (christian values) and our laws. I dislike the influence particularly christianity has on society. I don't have a problem with religious people until they use it to affect the lives of others (ie. challenging the gay marriage act hours after it was passed and nullifying several marriages. That's sick and the people who did it are monstrous and deserve a harsh lesson in life).

Anyone who think's we have separation of church and state is an idiot.

What an extraordinary coincidence that this unconfirmed report comes a few days after Australia commits troops to the Middle East.

I only highlighted that part because you deny coming to a conclusion. That statement suggests otherwise.

The questions you have asked though are very valid. They definitely make one ponder. I cant speak for religion as a whole, but in a short summation of myself, religion gives me a guidance by which to live my life. I do not impose it on anyone else and would never do so. I understand my religious texts and the beliefs that it teaches me. I understand why I have religion in my life, from a deeper personal level. I do not see religion as a political movement and an excuse for nations to create agendas, wars, or political paradigms. I hate when religion intermingles with politics, but such is the world.

Like i said, religion is an easy basis for which to create political agenda. It is the way has always been and always will be. If we all just realised that it would be better. Because then we could that religion was meant to be a personal guidance rather than a political movement.

Fark people are touchy in this thread... 433 and MvFCArsenal need to relax a little and discuss things rather than attack people.just makes for a better forum when we don't rip each other apart hey...

No.

It is an interesting intellectual exercise though. People have been religious for 10's of thousands of years. Why?

How did organised religion evolve? What were the benefits in organising a belief system? That's my theory above.

Over to you.

Ummm, did you make your own conclusion on the topic, and are now trying to persuade everyone else of your views?

Almost as if you have drawn up your own ideas, views, and thoughts, and are now preaching it to the masses in the hope they will understand it, accept them, and follow them......

My kids once asked me how religion started.

I thought about that long and hard and came to the conclusion that it started as a way of having control of, first the local tribe, then the local populace and then finally whole countries and continents.

Talk about an experiment that ran waaaaay out of control.

Without death there would not be religion

Obviously not all religious people share this view as mine, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. If people want to be atheists, then so be it. Don't treat people who are religious as if they are lesser than you. We claim religion does not bring out good people, but what of Mother Theresa or Mary Mckillop.

If people want to be religious, then so be it, but dont treat other religions and atheists like shit.

You don't need a book to tell you not to be a jerk. And if anyone actually created a religion in which he hated others, oh hang on, Westboro. Hasn't taken off very well.

You can be religious or not. Don't be a jerk. Religion is the easy spark to ignite the fire and cause problems. World leaders realise this and utilise it.

Then they are hypocrites having a bob each way choosing to say "I believe in God" (just to be safe mostly) and then using the universal cop out of "I believe in my own way" to extricate themselves from tricky moral conundrums. (And having to go to church.)

The amount of "believers" that don't go to church never ceases to amaze me. They can't take a single hour out of their pitiful lives, once a week, to worship their God.

Pathetic.