Terror Raids


Terror Raids

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Carlito
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Agreed . It seems that the people who hate religion can't seem to fathom that people have various reasons why they chose to believe . Noone is hurting them by believing
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So I shouldve been enough to find answers to my father's death?? I was a mess emotionally and physically . Just ask my wife how bad I was. The trauma of losing my father was enough for me to get into a depressive state that up until recently I was in .
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Weren't you religious once 11.mvfc.11 ? What changed my i ask ?
sydneycroatia58
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RedKat wrote:
Quote:
A Potential Terrorist Attack On Australia Was Just Met With A Collective “Meh” Because The Guy Behind It Isn’t Muslim

By Drew Rooke 2/9/14 9 41136

It appears Australia recently came extremely close to suffering its own September 11. About a month ago, media across the country reported that Queensland police discovered fifty kilograms of explosive materials in a Brisbane property – including DMDT, which was used in the 2005 London bombings – along with maps hinting that these explosives were to be used to blow up areas of central Sydney and Newcastle.

The fears of the Australian Federal Police and the Australian government — that the Islamic terrorist threat had crept from the battlefields of Iraq and Syria to our very doorstep — seemed to have come true.

Well, no. It was shocking – given the rants of talkback radio shock jocks, some newspaper columnists and our very own Prime Minister – to learn this planned attack wasn’t actually that of an Australian-Islamic extremist. Behind this plot was a Newcastle local Daniel Fing, a well-known criminal who was jailed in 2006 for four years for firebombing a rival’s car in Belmont, New South Wales.

Australian media curiously referred to the discovery as a “bomb plot” and not a “terrorist plot”; a headline in The Daily Telegraph read: “Sydney bomb plot suspect’s angry history”, while another in the Sydney Morning Herald read: “Police believe maps clue to a Sydney bomb plot”. Indeed, one of the few mentions of terrorism was from Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Speaking to 612 ABC Radio, he said: “There are all sorts of people who do all sorts of weird and, at times, pretty dangerous things. But I haven’t been advised of any potential terrorist threat in respect of this particular issue”.

Clear enough, then: this wasn’t a terrorist plot. But let’s pose a hypothetical – say the man behind the bomb plot was a Muslim named Muhammed Hosseini. Mr Hosseini’s motives weren’t yet known and the only facts of the case were that fifty kilograms of explosive material were discovered in his Lakemba home. The explosives were discovered by the real estate agent carrying out a routine inspection at a time Mr Hosseini was in custody for a completely unrelated driving offence.

Little imagination is needed to know how the Australian media would report this. Possible headlines: ‘SYDNEY TARGETED IN ISLAMIC TERRORIST PLOT’ or ‘ISLAMIC TERRORIST TARGETS SYDNEY,’ in bold capitals. Tony Abbott would be fronting the media detailing how this is evidence of the growing terror threat from Australian Muslims who had become radicalised in Iraq and Syria. Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Andrew Bolt and Paul Sheehan would be filling their talkback shows and newspaper columns with calls to increase police and security measures to combat the innately violent religion of Islam.

But instead, the case at hand involving Mr Fing is just a bomb plot, worthy only of a third of page six of the Sydney Morning Herald and only a passing comment by our Prime Minister. This is bizarre, especially given the federal government’s recent preoccupation with popularising its new counter-terrorism measures worth $630 million. Wouldn’t a case like this be the trump card to win the debate over why the new measures are needed?

It seems not, which raises the question – why isn’t it? The answer many will give is that because Mr Fing’s motives aren’t known, it can’t be determined whether the plot fits the criteria in Section 100.1 of the Australian Criminal Code which defines a terrorist act. Therefore, for the moment, the plot is more ‘criminal’ than it is ‘terrorist’. Indeed, that is a true and valid point, and it would be wrong to label Mr Fing a terrorist with the details currently available.

But it’s as true and valid as the hypothetical of Mr Hosseini. If it were Mr Hosseini’s house which was now being raided by the Australian Federal Police, the case would be being used as that very trump card. Instead, it’s passed off as a person doing a weird and dangerous thing; we seem all too eager to wrongly label a Muslim as a terrorist but reluctant to do the same to a bomb-plotting Caucasian, middle-aged man.

Such double standards hint at a deeper possibility, which is that entrenched into the Australian psyche – as well the psyche of the Western world – is that terrorism is, and only is, a trait of Islam. The response to Mr Fing’s plot is clear evidence of this. It needn’t be stated here where this perception arises from – many terrorist acts, including the most infamous in history, are committed by those claiming to be “true” Muslims.

However, the response to the case of Mr Fing raises a reason for the persistence of this stereotype. It’s easier for us, the majority, to point the finger at one group and convince ourselves that it’s only members of that group who pose a threat. The chance of containing the threat is then heightened – at least in our paranoid psyches – as the potential terrorists are easily identified and limited in number. We needn’t then worry that anyone may in fact plant a bomb beneath our city tomorrow.

But just because it’s easy doesn’t make it right. This stereotype of “not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims” is not only blatantly wrong — just think of Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski aka the ‘Unabomber’, or the right-wing Hindu extremist, Swami Aseemanand — but is damaging to the majority of peaceful, highly-respectable and law-abiding Muslims, as well as Australia’s democracy, decency and social cohesion.

Are we as a country really serious about combating terrorism? Or are we more concerned with vilifying one religious group for our own interests?



Drew Rooke is a freelance writer from Sydney, Australia, with an interest in national affairs and contemporary culture.


Read more at http://junkee.com/why-was-a-potential-terrorist-attack-on-sydney-and-newcastle-almost-completely-ignored/40723#BTig0wpD0xAwkcYf.99


Food for thought

Im also yet to know why, out of the 2 200 million Christians, 1 600 million Muslims, 1 100 Million Hindus, 448 million buddhists, 14 million Jews (slightly outdated figures) globally all are somehow inherently violent because they follow a religion? And the link between religion and terrorism and your actual evidence that religion = violence? If so wouldnt the majority of religious people be violent? Its simply ridiculous to smear millions and millions of people with one super easy and convenient brush.


Moral of the story, only Muslim's can be terrorists.
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Quote:
A Potential Terrorist Attack On Australia Was Just Met With A Collective “Meh” Because The Guy Behind It Isn’t Muslim

By Drew Rooke 2/9/14 9 41136

It appears Australia recently came extremely close to suffering its own September 11. About a month ago, media across the country reported that Queensland police discovered fifty kilograms of explosive materials in a Brisbane property – including DMDT, which was used in the 2005 London bombings – along with maps hinting that these explosives were to be used to blow up areas of central Sydney and Newcastle.

The fears of the Australian Federal Police and the Australian government — that the Islamic terrorist threat had crept from the battlefields of Iraq and Syria to our very doorstep — seemed to have come true.

Well, no. It was shocking – given the rants of talkback radio shock jocks, some newspaper columnists and our very own Prime Minister – to learn this planned attack wasn’t actually that of an Australian-Islamic extremist. Behind this plot was a Newcastle local Daniel Fing, a well-known criminal who was jailed in 2006 for four years for firebombing a rival’s car in Belmont, New South Wales.

Australian media curiously referred to the discovery as a “bomb plot” and not a “terrorist plot”; a headline in The Daily Telegraph read: “Sydney bomb plot suspect’s angry history”, while another in the Sydney Morning Herald read: “Police believe maps clue to a Sydney bomb plot”. Indeed, one of the few mentions of terrorism was from Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Speaking to 612 ABC Radio, he said: “There are all sorts of people who do all sorts of weird and, at times, pretty dangerous things. But I haven’t been advised of any potential terrorist threat in respect of this particular issue”.

Clear enough, then: this wasn’t a terrorist plot. But let’s pose a hypothetical – say the man behind the bomb plot was a Muslim named Muhammed Hosseini. Mr Hosseini’s motives weren’t yet known and the only facts of the case were that fifty kilograms of explosive material were discovered in his Lakemba home. The explosives were discovered by the real estate agent carrying out a routine inspection at a time Mr Hosseini was in custody for a completely unrelated driving offence.

Little imagination is needed to know how the Australian media would report this. Possible headlines: ‘SYDNEY TARGETED IN ISLAMIC TERRORIST PLOT’ or ‘ISLAMIC TERRORIST TARGETS SYDNEY,’ in bold capitals. Tony Abbott would be fronting the media detailing how this is evidence of the growing terror threat from Australian Muslims who had become radicalised in Iraq and Syria. Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Andrew Bolt and Paul Sheehan would be filling their talkback shows and newspaper columns with calls to increase police and security measures to combat the innately violent religion of Islam.

But instead, the case at hand involving Mr Fing is just a bomb plot, worthy only of a third of page six of the Sydney Morning Herald and only a passing comment by our Prime Minister. This is bizarre, especially given the federal government’s recent preoccupation with popularising its new counter-terrorism measures worth $630 million. Wouldn’t a case like this be the trump card to win the debate over why the new measures are needed?

It seems not, which raises the question – why isn’t it? The answer many will give is that because Mr Fing’s motives aren’t known, it can’t be determined whether the plot fits the criteria in Section 100.1 of the Australian Criminal Code which defines a terrorist act. Therefore, for the moment, the plot is more ‘criminal’ than it is ‘terrorist’. Indeed, that is a true and valid point, and it would be wrong to label Mr Fing a terrorist with the details currently available.

But it’s as true and valid as the hypothetical of Mr Hosseini. If it were Mr Hosseini’s house which was now being raided by the Australian Federal Police, the case would be being used as that very trump card. Instead, it’s passed off as a person doing a weird and dangerous thing; we seem all too eager to wrongly label a Muslim as a terrorist but reluctant to do the same to a bomb-plotting Caucasian, middle-aged man.

Such double standards hint at a deeper possibility, which is that entrenched into the Australian psyche – as well the psyche of the Western world – is that terrorism is, and only is, a trait of Islam. The response to Mr Fing’s plot is clear evidence of this. It needn’t be stated here where this perception arises from – many terrorist acts, including the most infamous in history, are committed by those claiming to be “true” Muslims.

However, the response to the case of Mr Fing raises a reason for the persistence of this stereotype. It’s easier for us, the majority, to point the finger at one group and convince ourselves that it’s only members of that group who pose a threat. The chance of containing the threat is then heightened – at least in our paranoid psyches – as the potential terrorists are easily identified and limited in number. We needn’t then worry that anyone may in fact plant a bomb beneath our city tomorrow.

But just because it’s easy doesn’t make it right. This stereotype of “not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims” is not only blatantly wrong — just think of Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski aka the ‘Unabomber’, or the right-wing Hindu extremist, Swami Aseemanand — but is damaging to the majority of peaceful, highly-respectable and law-abiding Muslims, as well as Australia’s democracy, decency and social cohesion.

Are we as a country really serious about combating terrorism? Or are we more concerned with vilifying one religious group for our own interests?



Drew Rooke is a freelance writer from Sydney, Australia, with an interest in national affairs and contemporary culture.


Read more at http://junkee.com/why-was-a-potential-terrorist-attack-on-sydney-and-newcastle-almost-completely-ignored/40723#BTig0wpD0xAwkcYf.99


Food for thought

Im also yet to know why, out of the 2 200 million Christians, 1 600 million Muslims, 1 100 Million Hindus, 448 million buddhists, 14 million Jews (slightly outdated figures) globally all are somehow inherently violent because they follow a religion? And the link between religion and terrorism and your actual evidence that religion = violence? If so wouldnt the majority of religious people be violent? Its simply ridiculous to smear millions and millions of people with one super easy and convenient brush.


Moral of the story, only Muslim's can be terrorists.

sssh . That doesnt suit the agenda here
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
RedKat wrote:
Quote:
A Potential Terrorist Attack On Australia Was Just Met With A Collective “Meh” Because The Guy Behind It Isn’t Muslim

By Drew Rooke 2/9/14 9 41136

It appears Australia recently came extremely close to suffering its own September 11. About a month ago, media across the country reported that Queensland police discovered fifty kilograms of explosive materials in a Brisbane property – including DMDT, which was used in the 2005 London bombings – along with maps hinting that these explosives were to be used to blow up areas of central Sydney and Newcastle.

The fears of the Australian Federal Police and the Australian government — that the Islamic terrorist threat had crept from the battlefields of Iraq and Syria to our very doorstep — seemed to have come true.

Well, no. It was shocking – given the rants of talkback radio shock jocks, some newspaper columnists and our very own Prime Minister – to learn this planned attack wasn’t actually that of an Australian-Islamic extremist. Behind this plot was a Newcastle local Daniel Fing, a well-known criminal who was jailed in 2006 for four years for firebombing a rival’s car in Belmont, New South Wales.

Australian media curiously referred to the discovery as a “bomb plot” and not a “terrorist plot”; a headline in The Daily Telegraph read: “Sydney bomb plot suspect’s angry history”, while another in the Sydney Morning Herald read: “Police believe maps clue to a Sydney bomb plot”. Indeed, one of the few mentions of terrorism was from Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Speaking to 612 ABC Radio, he said: “There are all sorts of people who do all sorts of weird and, at times, pretty dangerous things. But I haven’t been advised of any potential terrorist threat in respect of this particular issue”.

Clear enough, then: this wasn’t a terrorist plot. But let’s pose a hypothetical – say the man behind the bomb plot was a Muslim named Muhammed Hosseini. Mr Hosseini’s motives weren’t yet known and the only facts of the case were that fifty kilograms of explosive material were discovered in his Lakemba home. The explosives were discovered by the real estate agent carrying out a routine inspection at a time Mr Hosseini was in custody for a completely unrelated driving offence.

Little imagination is needed to know how the Australian media would report this. Possible headlines: ‘SYDNEY TARGETED IN ISLAMIC TERRORIST PLOT’ or ‘ISLAMIC TERRORIST TARGETS SYDNEY,’ in bold capitals. Tony Abbott would be fronting the media detailing how this is evidence of the growing terror threat from Australian Muslims who had become radicalised in Iraq and Syria. Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Andrew Bolt and Paul Sheehan would be filling their talkback shows and newspaper columns with calls to increase police and security measures to combat the innately violent religion of Islam.

But instead, the case at hand involving Mr Fing is just a bomb plot, worthy only of a third of page six of the Sydney Morning Herald and only a passing comment by our Prime Minister. This is bizarre, especially given the federal government’s recent preoccupation with popularising its new counter-terrorism measures worth $630 million. Wouldn’t a case like this be the trump card to win the debate over why the new measures are needed?

It seems not, which raises the question – why isn’t it? The answer many will give is that because Mr Fing’s motives aren’t known, it can’t be determined whether the plot fits the criteria in Section 100.1 of the Australian Criminal Code which defines a terrorist act. Therefore, for the moment, the plot is more ‘criminal’ than it is ‘terrorist’. Indeed, that is a true and valid point, and it would be wrong to label Mr Fing a terrorist with the details currently available.

But it’s as true and valid as the hypothetical of Mr Hosseini. If it were Mr Hosseini’s house which was now being raided by the Australian Federal Police, the case would be being used as that very trump card. Instead, it’s passed off as a person doing a weird and dangerous thing; we seem all too eager to wrongly label a Muslim as a terrorist but reluctant to do the same to a bomb-plotting Caucasian, middle-aged man.

Such double standards hint at a deeper possibility, which is that entrenched into the Australian psyche – as well the psyche of the Western world – is that terrorism is, and only is, a trait of Islam. The response to Mr Fing’s plot is clear evidence of this. It needn’t be stated here where this perception arises from – many terrorist acts, including the most infamous in history, are committed by those claiming to be “true” Muslims.

However, the response to the case of Mr Fing raises a reason for the persistence of this stereotype. It’s easier for us, the majority, to point the finger at one group and convince ourselves that it’s only members of that group who pose a threat. The chance of containing the threat is then heightened – at least in our paranoid psyches – as the potential terrorists are easily identified and limited in number. We needn’t then worry that anyone may in fact plant a bomb beneath our city tomorrow.

But just because it’s easy doesn’t make it right. This stereotype of “not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims” is not only blatantly wrong — just think of Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski aka the ‘Unabomber’, or the right-wing Hindu extremist, Swami Aseemanand — but is damaging to the majority of peaceful, highly-respectable and law-abiding Muslims, as well as Australia’s democracy, decency and social cohesion.

Are we as a country really serious about combating terrorism? Or are we more concerned with vilifying one religious group for our own interests?



Drew Rooke is a freelance writer from Sydney, Australia, with an interest in national affairs and contemporary culture.


Read more at http://junkee.com/why-was-a-potential-terrorist-attack-on-sydney-and-newcastle-almost-completely-ignored/40723#BTig0wpD0xAwkcYf.99


Food for thought

Im also yet to know why, out of the 2 200 million Christians, 1 600 million Muslims, 1 100 Million Hindus, 448 million buddhists, 14 million Jews (slightly outdated figures) globally all are somehow inherently violent because they follow a religion? And the link between religion and terrorism and your actual evidence that religion = violence? If so wouldnt the majority of religious people be violent? Its simply ridiculous to smear millions and millions of people with one super easy and convenient brush.


Moral of the story, only Muslim's can be terrorists.

sssh . That doesnt suit the agenda here


Literally no one has said that.

While everybody has the potential to be a terrorist, it seems the only terrorists we see are muslims.
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And why is that ??? the media are known to be selective in reporting . Also take a look about child abductions in the US. a white child goes missing and its front page news, a child of colour goes missing and the media go about there business . The media have to except some of the blame on the way they report .
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
And why is that ??? the media are known to be selective in reporting . Also take a look about child abductions in the US. a white child goes missing and its front page news, a child of colour goes missing and the media go about there business . The media have to except some of the blame on the way they report .


Bull-fucking-shit mate...

Did you not see the furore about the Zimmerman/Martin case or more recently the Ferguson case? The media always jump on a story about "racism" when a black kid is shot, and even attempt to manufacture racism when it's clearly not involved (see: MSNBC editing of Zimmerman phone call). When a white kid is shot, no one in America bats an eyelid (see: Chris Lane shooting - it deserved faaaaaaaaaaaar more attention than the Zimmerman case, but because he was white and the killers were black no one cared).


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not bullshit , look up abduction cases . Im not here to argue with you as you seem to be in fuck everybody but me zone
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
not bullshit , look up abduction cases . Im not here to argue with you as you seem to be in fuck everybody but me zone


hurr I'll just ignore everything you say and say you don't listen to anyone else

hypocrite
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RedKat wrote:
11.mvfc.11 wrote:
Munrubenmuz summed up the impact of religion on our lives pretty well. That among other examples is exactly how religion is holding us back.

You say people have these "reasons" to believe. Basically, their reasons come down to not being strong enough as an individual to find their own answers and meaning in life, and the church is damn quick to capitalise on that.

Religion is the single biggest manipulation upon human kind in history, and needs to end.


Again I addressed those as being problems with the separation of church and state rather than the religious whole.

And your assertions that people are only religious because they cant find their own answers and meaning in life is completely tunnel visioned. Why is your version of answers and meaning in life any better? And why should you force your views onto others? What wrong has a moderately religious person committed?


Hang on a sec. What view is he exactly forcing upon you again? I've read all this posts, and nothing in them to force you away from your religion, except for stating that he doesn't believe in a higher all knowing all power being that can run his day to day life and needs to be prayed to. It's a pretty big jump to say just because he dismisses God or Allah or the tooth fairy, that he his FORCING you to do anything.
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Weren't you religious once 11.mvfc.11 ? What changed my i ask ?


Most people were religious upon birth due to what he stated in an earlier post, that had it rammed down their throats as children. As they grew older, some realise that there are more important things in life than religion.

Edited by Double Edged Sword: 20/9/2014 04:49:54 PM
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:
Double Edged Sword wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Weren't you religious once 11.mvfc.11 ? What changed my i ask ?


Most people were religious upon birth due to what he stated in an earlier post, that had it rammed down their throats as children. As they grew older, some realise that there are more important things in life than religion.

Edited by Double Edged Sword: 20/9/2014 04:49:54 PM
I was in the boat of trying to fit in with a girlfriend's family and their beliefs. Needless to say that ended in disaster :lol:


Been there, not worth it.


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433 wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
not bullshit , look up abduction cases . Im not here to argue with you as you seem to be in fuck everybody but me zone


hurr I'll just ignore everything you say and say you don't listen to anyone else

hypocrite

Me a hypocrite look at yourself . Look at Ferguson why did they use a picture of the guy they shot in an unflattering light and say he was involved in an armed robbery which has been disproven ? You know the media do do that but nope it's all about a racist conspiracy to stop the white man .
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Double Edged Sword wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Weren't you religious once 11.mvfc.11 ? What changed my i ask ?


Most people were religious upon birth due to what he stated in an earlier post, that had it rammed down their throats as children. As they grew older, some realise that there are more important things in life than religion.

Edited by Double Edged Sword: 20/9/2014 04:49:54 PM

Is your name 11.mvfc.11? Stop answering his questions for him
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Double Edged Sword wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
Weren't you religious once 11.mvfc.11 ? What changed my i ask ?


Most people were religious upon birth due to what he stated in an earlier post, that had it rammed down their throats as children. As they grew older, some realise that there are more important things in life than religion.

Edited by Double Edged Sword: 20/9/2014 04:49:54 PM

Is your name 11.mvfc.11? Stop answering his questions for him


I hit a nerve? Sorry bud.
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
433 wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
not bullshit , look up abduction cases . Im not here to argue with you as you seem to be in fuck everybody but me zone


hurr I'll just ignore everything you say and say you don't listen to anyone else

hypocrite

Me a hypocrite look at yourself . Look at Ferguson why did they use a picture of the guy they shot in an unflattering light and say he was involved in an armed robbery which has been disproven ? You know the media do do that but nope it's all about a racist conspiracy to stop the white man .


The fuck you talking about... he robbed a store. There's empirical video proof of this ](*,)

And I didn't say it was a "racist conspiracy", I was just pointing out that there is a narrative in the left-wing media to paint the actions of minorities in a positive light and white people's in a negative light.
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433 wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
433 wrote:
MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:
not bullshit , look up abduction cases . Im not here to argue with you as you seem to be in fuck everybody but me zone


hurr I'll just ignore everything you say and say you don't listen to anyone else

hypocrite

Me a hypocrite look at yourself . Look at Ferguson why did they use a picture of the guy they shot in an unflattering light and say he was involved in an armed robbery which has been disproven ? You know the media do do that but nope it's all about a racist conspiracy to stop the white man .


The fuck you talking about... he robbed a store. There's empirical video proof of this ](*,)

And I didn't say it was a "racist conspiracy", I was just pointing out that there is a narrative in the left-wing media to paint the actions of minorities in a positive light and white people's in a negative light.

That video doesn't show the whole story http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/19/1323057/-Crooks-and-Liars-Brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars# There was push and shove, but he appears to have paid for the cigars.

And on your second claim, heres how the media treats black victims compared to white suspects.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/media-black-victims_n_5673291.html
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RedKat wrote:
So then your problem is with the institution of the church rather than christian people?


Without "Christian" people there would be no church.


Member since 2008.


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RedKat wrote:

I dont think moderate religion is as rigid as you make out. The moderate will use the religion as a framework but still have their own individual thought. For example theres many moderates who will reject religious ideas on homosexuality.


Then they are hypocrites having a bob each way choosing to say "I believe in God" (just to be safe mostly) and then using the universal cop out of "I believe in my own way" to extricate themselves from tricky moral conundrums. (And having to go to church.)

The amount of "believers" that don't go to church never ceases to amaze me. They can't take a single hour out of their pitiful lives, once a week, to worship their God.

Pathetic.



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RedKat wrote:
The irony is people are saying religion is bad because it forces views on others and so they are trying to enforce their views onto religions people


Obviously not all religious people share this view as mine, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. If people want to be atheists, then so be it. Don't treat people who are religious as if they are lesser than you. We claim religion does not bring out good people, but what of Mother Theresa or Mary Mckillop.

If people want to be religious, then so be it, but dont treat other religions and atheists like shit.

You don't need a book to tell you not to be a jerk. And if anyone actually created a religion in which he hated others, oh hang on, Westboro. Hasn't taken off very well.

You can be religious or not. Don't be a jerk. Religion is the easy spark to ignite the fire and cause problems. World leaders realise this and utilise it.
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
RedKat wrote:
So then your problem is with the institution of the church rather than christian people?


Without "Christian" people there would be no church.


Without death there would not be religion
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My kids once asked me how religion started.

I thought about that long and hard and came to the conclusion that it started as a way of having control of, first the local tribe, then the local populace and then finally whole countries and continents.

Talk about an experiment that ran waaaaay out of control.


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Munrubenmuz wrote:
My kids once asked me how religion started.

I thought about that long and hard and came to the conclusion that it started as a way of having control of, first the local tribe, then the local populace and then finally whole countries and continents.

Talk about an experiment that ran waaaaay out of control.


Ummm, did you make your own conclusion on the topic, and are now trying to persuade everyone else of your views?

Almost as if you have drawn up your own ideas, views, and thoughts, and are now preaching it to the masses in the hope they will understand it, accept them, and follow them......
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zimbos_05 wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
My kids once asked me how religion started.

I thought about that long and hard and came to the conclusion that it started as a way of having control of, first the local tribe, then the local populace and then finally whole countries and continents.

Talk about an experiment that ran waaaaay out of control.


Ummm, did you make your own conclusion on the topic, and are now trying to persuade everyone else of your views?

Almost as if you have drawn up your own ideas, views, and thoughts, and are now preaching it to the masses in the hope they will understand it, accept them, and follow them......


No.

It is an interesting intellectual exercise though. People have been religious for 10's of thousands of years. Why?

How did organised religion evolve? What were the benefits in organising a belief system? That's my theory above.

Over to you.




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Fark people are touchy in this thread... 433 and MvFCArsenal need to relax a little and discuss things rather than attack people.just makes for a better forum when we don't rip each other apart hey...
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
My kids once asked me how religion started.

I thought about that long and hard and came to the conclusion that it started as a way of having control of, first the local tribe, then the local populace and then finally whole countries and continents.

Talk about an experiment that ran waaaaay out of control.


Ummm, did you make your own conclusion on the topic, and are now trying to persuade everyone else of your views?

Almost as if you have drawn up your own ideas, views, and thoughts, and are now preaching it to the masses in the hope they will understand it, accept them, and follow them......


No.

It is an interesting intellectual exercise though. People have been religious for 10's of thousands of years. Why?

How did organised religion evolve? What were the benefits in organising a belief system? That's my theory above.

Over to you.



I only highlighted that part because you deny coming to a conclusion. That statement suggests otherwise.

The questions you have asked though are very valid. They definitely make one ponder. I cant speak for religion as a whole, but in a short summation of myself, religion gives me a guidance by which to live my life. I do not impose it on anyone else and would never do so. I understand my religious texts and the beliefs that it teaches me. I understand why I have religion in my life, from a deeper personal level. I do not see religion as a political movement and an excuse for nations to create agendas, wars, or political paradigms. I hate when religion intermingles with politics, but such is the world.

Like i said, religion is an easy basis for which to create political agenda. It is the way has always been and always will be. If we all just realised that it would be better. Because then we could that religion was meant to be a personal guidance rather than a political movement.
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What an extraordinary coincidence that this unconfirmed report comes a few days after Australia commits troops to the Middle East.
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zimbos_05 wrote:
RedKat wrote:
The irony is people are saying religion is bad because it forces views on others and so they are trying to enforce their views onto religions people


Obviously not all religious people share this view as mine, but I agree with this wholeheartedly. If people want to be atheists, then so be it. Don't treat people who are religious as if they are lesser than you. We claim religion does not bring out good people, but what of Mother Theresa or Mary Mckillop.

If people want to be religious, then so be it, but dont treat other religions and atheists like shit.

You don't need a book to tell you not to be a jerk. And if anyone actually created a religion in which he hated others, oh hang on, Westboro. Hasn't taken off very well.

You can be religious or not. Don't be a jerk. Religion is the easy spark to ignite the fire and cause problems. World leaders realise this and utilise it.


Well done mate 2 people in the entire world.....

People could be religious and not be so open about it but the majority seem to need to spread their religion. Why the hell is there so much religious symbolism in our lives? There are shrines to every kind of god everywhere. The problem people (including myself) have with religion is it suffocates everything we do (christian values) and our laws. I dislike the influence particularly christianity has on society. I don't have a problem with religious people until they use it to affect the lives of others (ie. challenging the gay marriage act hours after it was passed and nullifying several marriages. That's sick and the people who did it are monstrous and deserve a harsh lesson in life).

Anyone who think's we have separation of church and state is an idiot.
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zimbos_05 wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
My kids once asked me how religion started.

I thought about that long and hard and came to the conclusion that it started as a way of having control of, first the local tribe, then the local populace and then finally whole countries and continents.

Talk about an experiment that ran waaaaay out of control.


Ummm, did you make your own conclusion on the topic, and are now trying to persuade everyone else of your views?

Almost as if you have drawn up your own ideas, views, and thoughts, and are now preaching it to the masses in the hope they will understand it, accept them, and follow them......


..... sounds like abrahamic religions. People came up with them. The holy spirit didn't have a pen.
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