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Carlito
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Mcain has always been different. In his last years he stopped giving a fuck and didn't side with the repubs most of the time. A true republican
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Muz
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Georgia under 1500 now. https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1324589545166430213Just heard on the radio only 2000 left to count. Sounds like he won't get there.
Member since 2008.
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maxxie
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CNN reckons the difference is 600 with 11000 votes to count. Based on how they're breaking, Biden will squeak through. It's going to be a recount either way.
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paladisious
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+xCNN reckons the difference is 600 with 11000 votes to count. Based on how they're breaking, Biden will squeak through. It's going to be a recount either way. There could be several thousands of military votes for Georgia which can be counted as long as they arrive by tomorrow. Not sure how there are normally or how they break, but looking at these margins that could be decisive.
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paladisious
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paladisious
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Far out this is so tight, and in so many places.
Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there.
Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year.
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quickflick
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Planet America with Chas Licciardello and John Barron on at 8pm on the ABC News Channel. Unsure if it’s a new episode or a repeat. Those two really know their stuff. And recently they’ve interviewed the likes of Bob Woodward and, for all his faults, John Bolton. They also get Nick Bryant from the BBC. He’s also very good.
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paladisious
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+xPlanet America with Chas Licciardello and John Barron on at 8pm on the ABC News Channel. Unsure if it’s a new episode or a repeat. Those two really know their stuff. And recently they’ve interviewed the likes of Bob Woodward and, for all his faults, John Bolton. They also get Nick Bryant from the BBC. He’s also very good. I remember when they had the Greens candidate Howie Hawkins and he joked something along the lines of "it's the first time I've had national mainstream TV exposure, pity it's in the wrong country" lol
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paladisious
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Only 463 in it in Georgia now!
3.5k votes left in Clayton County in metro Atlanta, so far they've voted 84.5% Biden across all voting methods. They'll be counting through the night.
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quickflick
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Group: Forum Members
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+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. Also overhauling the electoral college system so that each state’s total number of electoral corresponds better on a per capita basis. As things stand, for example, a constituent of Wyoming’s presidential vote is worth about threefold more than the vote of a constituent in various other states, iirc. But again, I think the confederation system is good. It’s also, imo, good that winning the popular vote doesn’t amount to winning the presidential election. And that’s not dissimilar to here. One political party could win fewer seats than the other political party, despite winning more aggregate votes across Australia than the second political party.
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scott20won
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Biden looking good
China bringing the hammer down on Australia
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paladisious
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If Biden wins Georgia and Trump wins everything else still on the table it's a 269 v 269 tie and it goes to the House of Reps in a really weird one state one vote poll.
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paladisious
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Scratch another one up to the 2020 bingo card about how many names of counties of Georgia I'd learn.
The only county that I could name previously was King County as that's where Rick Grimes in The Walking Dead was originally a deputy from, but that turns out to be fictional, but the US is going through a slightly different apocalypse and anarchy in reality lol
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maxxie
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+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression.
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quickflick
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+xBiden looking good China bringing the hammer down on Australia I reckon Biden will be quite hawkish on China. At least, I hope so (as I think Beijing despises weakness). I must say, I think Trump was actually effective against China (whether by accident or design). Far better than Obama was. But there now appears to be bipartisan support for taking a firm line with Beijing. And many American people appear to favour this hard line on Beijing. So it’s politically-expedient (as well as morally-correct) for Biden to stand up to China For all his isolationism, Trump managed to start to form a kind of alliance of US, Japan, South Korea and Australia in tackling China. As well as calling on the 5Is countries to oppose letting Huawei build their 5G networks. Although Malcolm Turnbull says it was Australia’s intelligence and security services which warned their US counterparts about Huawei. Where Trump struggles to build alliances is Europe. He has infuriated many of the Europeans. In some parts of Europe, there’s almost a manic hatred of the US (with people conflating Trump with the US). Its actually vindictive and unfair. Although even many in Europe are now starting to get fed up with Xi Jingping.
But I reckon it will be far easier for Biden to form alliances with Europe. And, as with Trump, the 5Is co-operation will stay the same (red or blue). Same goes for Japan and, now, probably India, too.
So maybe, at long last, liberal democracies across the world (and India, which isn’t quite that) will work in concert against Beijing’s coercion, breaking of international law and human rights breaches. Finally. The major hurdle will be EU support. And German support. But even Germany’s starting to criticise Beijing now.
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scott20won
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+x+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. I think the concept of compulsory voting is absurd. You live in a democracy but you don’t have the right to choose not to vote.
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Burztur
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+x+xCNN reckons the difference is 600 with 11000 votes to count. Based on how they're breaking, Biden will squeak through. It's going to be a recount either way. There could be several thousands of military votes for Georgia which can be counted as long as they arrive by tomorrow. Not sure how there are normally or how they break, but looking at these margins that could be decisive. Imagine if Trumps USPS delay tactics were the ones that resulted in these votes being late.
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
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+x+x+xCNN reckons the difference is 600 with 11000 votes to count. Based on how they're breaking, Biden will squeak through. It's going to be a recount either way. There could be several thousands of military votes for Georgia which can be counted as long as they arrive by tomorrow. Not sure how there are normally or how they break, but looking at these margins that could be decisive. Imagine if Trumps USPS delay tactics were the ones that resulted in these votes being late. Oh boy.
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
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+x+x+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. I think the concept of compulsory voting is absurd. You live in a democracy but you don’t have the right to choose not to vote. You're ignoring the right to spoil your ballot, which is a right I totally support. You have the right to not participate by writing "none of the above" on your ballot or by drawing a fat veiny dick on it, but you don't have the right to not show up and not get your name ticked off the register. I really like that, and I think Australia has that one right. If you're too lazy to do even that (like my loser housemate who I've seen a few fines show up in the mailbox over the years) then you deserve a fine. And I haven't even started on Democracy Sausages.
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paladisious
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BIDEN TAKES THE LEAD IN GEORGIA
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. I think the concept of compulsory voting is absurd. You live in a democracy but you don’t have the right to choose not to vote. I think it should be compulsory to have your name ticked off, even if you choose not to vote. People should have a civic duty.
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scott20won
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. I think the concept of compulsory voting is absurd. You live in a democracy but you don’t have the right to choose not to vote. I think it should be compulsory to have your name ticked off, even if you choose not to vote. People should have a civic duty. Sure, I could accept that. But as an app/digitally or post, not having to go somewhere and go through a drive thru or something.
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. I think the concept of compulsory voting is absurd. You live in a democracy but you don’t have the right to choose not to vote. I think it should be compulsory to have your name ticked off, even if you choose not to vote. People should have a civic duty. Sure, I could accept that. But as an app/digitally or post, not having to go somewhere and go through a drive thru or something. I am sure that submitting an informal postal vote is enough to not be fined in this case. That's a stroll to your local mailbox; not a lot to ask. One time I got a letter as I didn't vote in my very safe Labor seat in the 2010 federal election and I just truthfully ticked a box on it saying I was overseas on election day and heard nothing more.
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scott20won
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+xBIDEN TAKES THE LEAD IN GEORGIA They said on the news the republicans will do the recount. Is it the case in every state that the ruling party does the recount?
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scott20won
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I cant wait for this to be a Southpark episode
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paladisious
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+x+xBIDEN TAKES THE LEAD IN GEORGIA They said on the news the republicans will do the recount. Is it the case in every state that the ruling party does the recount? Every state has their own rules for when a recount is allowed, and every state tabulates their count themselves; the President is chosen by each state's Electoral College voters, it is not a federal affair. Georgia is a totally Republican-controlled state, by the way, and in fact there was controversy regarding voter suppression going the other way two years ago in the federal midterm and state governer elections.
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paladisious
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+xAnd yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. Well said.
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quickflick
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xFar out this is so tight, and in so many places. Obviously as Australians we know that they need to make many changes in the US voting system, but surely this election will kill the "one vote doesn't matter" vibe over there. Third party vote also way down, I guess after last time the smartarses who threw away their vote to prove a point by voting Greens or whatever realise that shit has gotten real this year. It’d be improved by compulsory voting (or turning up at the poll booth) and then people can just vote informally if they hate all the candidates. As is the case here, works far better. But such a suggestion would probably be regarded as heresy Stateside. The brainwashing that has convinced so many americans that preferential voting is somehow worse that what they've got now is evidence of the incredible sophistication of the propaganda machine that two major parties have. And yeah, most americans would screech "coMmNUiSm" if you suggested compulsory voting. They're so fixated on fighting over their civic rights that they see civic responsibility as oppression. Exactly. If people were obliged to cast a ballot which nominated a candidate, then I’d consider it unjust. But it’s nothing like that. They’re just obliged to take an envelope to a mailbox or to get their name ticked off at a polling booth or cop a fine or produce a valid excuse for not voting. Nothing too arduous. Nothing that breaches John Locke’s idea of the individual’s ‘natural rights’, nothing that contravenes the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It’s the tiniest of civic responsibilities that can be considered part of the social contract. That people can conflate that with communism is just urghhh.
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
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Yang recommending Australia style preferential voting for the US right now on the panel on CNN. He's so right. Their first past the post system for the binary choice of President is hugely responsible for their hyperpartisanship, in my view.
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xJust wondering when senior Republicans cut him loose. Rick Santorum was strident in criticism on CNN and said no senior republicans will stand with the entirety of his claims. Even Pence seems to be backing off. Yep did hear that. Was semi-encouraging. Agree that within 48 hours, all these guys that were initially against him but fell into line will be making moves to establish themselves in the power vacuum. They’re going to say that he was really a Dem and never stood for our values etc They'd be crazy to do that. 70 million people voted for the putz. Obviously he has huge support in America. Yeah I don't think they'll do that. There's clearly elements of this strategy that worked but it looks like he might have lost the more moderate republicans. Expect the next Trump to follow the same strategies but just tone down the more outrageous aspects a little. I fear that the next Republican candidate may be Tom Cotton. He’s potentially far more dangerous than Trump. Perhaps not as charismatic, in Trump’s unique way, but Cotton would appeal to a lot of hardcore republicans. Ideologically, he’s basically super conservative (he’d be a big shift away from the John McCain type of Republican). But unlike Trump, Cotton has genuine longterm potential. He is way smarter than Trump. He’s probably about as intelligent as some of the brighter Democrats, just a lot less compassionate as an individual (not that all Republicans lack compassion, McCain had it in spades). Cotton would come with the Ivy League education, the intellectual acumen, political ruthlessness. He’s also a war vet and could probably get lots of military support. If Trump fans (and even non-Trump fans) feel disillusioned by the Democrats and even politics in the US, Cotton would offer them a far more robust alternative than Trump has offered (the only probable thing lacking being Trump’s unpredictability which has kinda been oddly helpful in some of his foreign policy ventures). I consider this to be horrifying. And it only highlights how stupid the Democrats would be to nominate a candidate such as Michelle Obama, almost entirely on the basis of symbolism (first woman of colour as POTUS). Many voters would be hugely unimpressed by that kind of symbolism purely for the sake of symbolism rather than merit). It’d be regarded as basically the embodiment of quota culture (except for the highest office in the US). An opponent with genuine accomplishments (albeit a nasty, ultra conservative) would manage to siphon off huge amounts of votes from a purely symbolic Democrat. He would be a very impressive candidate. The problem for the dems is that they are to use a John Howard term a 'broad church' There is the louder progressive one-third that deliver huge votes in liberal states and there there are the much more quieter traditional two-thirds of the party that will deliver the tight victories in Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia. Finding a candidate that caters for both parts of their constituency is incredibly difficult. This will be the challenge for Biden. How to blend policies that appeal to his own constituents while trying to also appeal to the more moderate republicans. Very well put. I agree with your description of the Democrats’ conundrum.
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