Luongo Mentor: "The problem in Australia is they are trying to combine player development with...


Luongo Mentor: "The problem in Australia is they are trying to...

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WaMackie
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I think this guy means well, but a bit of perspective. Harry Kewell was Leeds first team at 18 (EPL level) and Massimo is English 3rd division at 22.

He’s good, but not ‘great’ yet.

This Magrone gent seems to be blowing up his own tyres here a bit too.

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highkick05 wrote:
"The problem in Australia is they are trying to combine player development with winning, or doing well in tournaments. They are two separate things"

made that comment today about Brilliante's underperforming @ Fiorentina.

Davidson's had the same approach at West Brom. People have consistently been raving that these guys are going there to become better players. If they're not going there with the idea towin games then that sounds like a massive cop out, going into it on the back foot rather than taking the bull by the horns.

I have no doubt playing in Europe would be daunting for all Aussies but if you're playing a game for West Brom thinking you're there to learn you're shooting yourself in the foot already.

Maybe a job of the academies and AIS should be/is to make these guys game ready, fundamentally prepared to not walk into this environment facing these idea's/problems.

Edited by highkick05: 26/1/2015 02:14:18 AM


That is their purpose highkick05, the AIS and the NTC's are about developing players, maybe they are not getting results on the park I.e the AIS are getting thrashed almost every week in the NYL, but they are not worried about that, they want to nurture players and work from there technical base.

Im not sure about what Magrone is harping about but maybe he needs to have a chat with the current guys at the FFA.

Ever since the FFA have changed the development system around 2010 slowly the purpose has been all about developing players and results are seen as secondary which is done with the best in the World.



Edited by Barca4life: 26/1/2015 10:15:48 PM
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"The problem in Australia is they are trying to combine player development with winning, or doing well in tournaments. They are two separate things"

made that comment today about Brilliante's underperforming @ Fiorentina.

Davidson's had the same approach at West Brom. People have consistently been raving that these guys are going there to become better players. If they're not going there with the idea towin games then that sounds like a massive cop out, going into it on the back foot rather than taking the bull by the horns.

I have no doubt playing in Europe would be daunting for all Aussies but if you're playing a game for West Brom thinking you're there to learn you're shooting yourself in the foot already.

Maybe a job of the academies and AIS should be/is to make these guys game ready, fundamentally prepared to not walk into this environment facing these idea's/problems.

Edited by highkick05: 26/1/2015 02:14:18 AM


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Magrone said he was fending off approaches from the Aussie under 17s and the AIS (NTC).

I thought FFA used international tournaments to see how we are progressing.

One thing that has be considered, is that a lot of English player development , even at EPL clubs, has not produced a plethora of EPL players. Many are recruited from overseas.

Only circa 30% of EPL players are English.



The other point is that English coaching development is considered counterproductive for national team performance at senior revel. Club development is ad hoc.

On the continent they have prescribed systems for development. This is what were are trying to replicate in Australia. It is thought that players in Germany, Spain, Holland and France have a better understanding of roles within a structure when they get together in national team camps.

Conversely, a view exists that English players, often superb individually, are confused with team game plans.
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Barca4Life wrote:

Because its agenda based, nothing more. Magrone sounds a salesmen nothing more vindicating his coaching methods are successful like any businessman. I dont know why the editor tries to give this man media space.

But thats the problem with Australian Football isn't it? Too much politics and agendas.

Edited by Barca4life: 16/1/2015 02:00:45 PM


This. Anyone who's a coach would say something similar, and I've been one - not in this sport however. You will always have players that stand out and you could mould the teams success around them if they genuinely are just good. But I agree one on one sessions can definitely help them but what are you teaching them spending time with them in this sense ? Surely you're teaching fundamentals during training to all players. He makes it sound as if he's magically instilled some sort of gift on him, but what ? Weird thing to say really, without mentioning in much detail what Luongo has learnt from him.

"Mass’s mentality was head and shoulders above. He was humble, a great listener and learner ... just like he is now."

So that is taught how ?

Edited by highkick05: 16/1/2015 04:06:50 PM


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Barca4Life wrote:
Interesting he says that the FFA Curriculum is focused on development and results which is isn't true at all in fact its the opposite.

I think the other FFT article about Zainnedine is more interesting and he mentions that the FFA/FNSW training methodology is good but is too structured unlike the AC Milan academy which apparently is more European based on tactics and on the individuals. But the irony of that is what we are doing here is borrowed from what is done in Europe too which Decentric knows in spades.


The FFA NC is all about development not results, cannot speak about all the "coaches" at grassroots/youth level embracing this concept though and that is where the problem is. Whether the way the development and selection process can be done better is another discussion.
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socceroo_06 wrote:
Davstar wrote:
I agree at youth level development takes precedent. However results 'do matter' good result (winning) is a product of good development.

At U/20s I can understand we're trying to play a certain way, improve a technical capabilities and teach youth to read play etc.

However from there on in only one thing matters WINNING. It is funny we have taken the 'dutch' view on development which is a good (don't get me wrong) but i prefer the German/Italian attitude the only thing that matters is winning at all costs.

If you ask me Italy and Germany play to win (it isn't always pretty) but that have 7 world cups between them, compared to Holland that has lost 3 world cup finals and never won a world cup. That has got to count for something.


Holland hasn't played pretty football since the 70's. Germany & Spain's most recent World Cup wins are a lesson in modern proactive football. Italian football is going through a state of flux at the moment with Serie A and national teams underperforming at present.

I'm curious whether this Magrone fellow is actually in touch with the current NC methodology because he seems to be talking about player development in Australia as if it's 2005 and not 2015.

It also baffles me that the interviewer didn't pull him up on his assessment of current youth development in Australia.


Because its agenda based, nothing more. Magrone sounds a salesmen nothing more vindicating his coaching methods are successful like any businessman. I dont know why the editor tries to give this man media space.

But thats the problem with Australian Football isn't it? Too much politics and agendas.

Edited by Barca4life: 16/1/2015 02:00:45 PM
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Davstar wrote:
I agree at youth level development takes precedent. However results 'do matter' good result (winning) is a product of good development.

At U/20s I can understand we're trying to play a certain way, improve a technical capabilities and teach youth to read play etc.

However from there on in only one thing matters WINNING. It is funny we have taken the 'dutch' view on development which is a good (don't get me wrong) but i prefer the German/Italian attitude the only thing that matters is winning at all costs.

If you ask me Italy and Germany play to win (it isn't always pretty) but that have 7 world cups between them, compared to Holland that has lost 3 world cup finals and never won a world cup. That has got to count for something.


Holland hasn't played pretty football since the 70's. Germany & Spain's most recent World Cup wins are a lesson in modern proactive football. Italian football is going through a state of flux at the moment with Serie A and national teams underperforming at present.

I'm curious whether this Magrone fellow is actually in touch with the current NC methodology because he seems to be talking about player development in Australia as if it's 2005 and not 2015.

It also baffles me that the interviewer didn't pull him up on his assessment of current youth development in Australia.
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I agree at youth level development takes precedent. However results 'do matter' good result (winning) is a product of good development.

At U/20s I can understand we're trying to play a certain way, improve a technical capabilities and teach youth to read play etc.

However from there on in only one thing matters WINNING. It is funny we have taken the 'dutch' view on development which is a good (don't get me wrong) but i prefer the German/Italian attitude the only thing that matters is winning at all costs.

If you ask me Italy and Germany play to win (it isn't always pretty) but that have 7 world cups between them, compared to Holland that has lost 3 world cup finals and never won a world cup. That has got to count for something.

these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL

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Interesting he says that the FFA Curriculum is focused on development and results which is isn't true at all in fact its the opposite.

I think the other FFT article about Zainnedine is more interesting and he mentions that the FFA/FNSW training methodology is good but is too structured unlike the AC Milan academy which apparently is more European based on tactics and on the individuals. But the irony of that is what we are doing here is borrowed from what is done in Europe too which Decentric knows in spades.
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It does sound at odds doesn't it?
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Quote:
LUONGO MENTOR SAYS RISING STAR CAN BE FIRST OF MANY

David Magrone – the man who honed the talent of Socceroos sensation Massimo Luongo – believes by overhauling its player development systems Australia could produce “four or five Luongos every year”.

The head of recruitment at English Premier League side Queens Park Rangers, Magrone, 41, spotted Luongo playing for St George U-14s in southern Sydney and worked with him, and a small group of other youngsters, five days a week for three years, before helping him secure a contract at Tottenham Hotspur back in 2009.

Magrone reckons the talent pathways in Australia are flawed and the highly technical Luongo - Australia’s breakout performer in the AFC Asian Cup routs of Kuwait and Oman - is living proof of an alternative route to the top for the nation’s next generation.

The former Sydneysider, who ran his own academy as well as coaching youth teams at St George and Apia Leichhardt, explained: "It’s all about spending vast amounts of time with players.

"With Mass, I made it very focused. We went to extreme lengths to get the contact time to make sure we produced something at the end of it.

"You could be producing four or five [players like Luongo] a year. But the way the system operates in Australia right now there's no chance. We'll stumble across another one of Mass's calibre if we are lucky.

"The problem in Australia is they are trying to combine player development with winning, or doing well in tournaments. They are two separate things

"If you want to produce a player, focus on a player within a team. If you want to produce a team, focus on the team and then the players. It’s hard to get both. The approach is too broad."

Swindon Town midfielder Luongo, 22, has been greeted by some as an overnight sensation, but the player himself insists that is not the case.

"With me, it was really all down to those years working with David Magrone on all aspects of my game before I even thought about trying to go overseas," Luongo said.

"It takes years but you have to be ready because when you go to a club like Tottenham the jump in quality is massive."

Magrone added: “You have to mimic what happens in Europe to produce more players of Mass's quality. There’s no way the A-League Youth League will ever produce international quality players because the level of competition is just not high enough.

"At Tottenham, Mass was the captain of the Under-21s playing alongside Harry Kane, Ryan Mason, Andros Townsend and Nabil Bentaleb [now all first-teamers at Spurs]."

Magrone knew the moment he set eyes on Luongo as a 13-year-old that he had uncovered an uncut diamond, even though he was not quite the athletic specimen he is today.

"When I first saw Mass he looked a little bit lumpy and was probably a little bit overweight … but he had this knack of running in a straight line and still beating people," he said.

"He had unbelievable balance – something I’d rarely seen in a player before. But his first touch and his passing were only average.

"I knew he could hit the top. But there were a couple of others who were maybe even better back then. One Serbian kid could have been anything but he didn’t train often enough and another succumbed to some bad injuries.

"Mass’s mentality was head and shoulders above. He was humble, a great listener and learner ... just like he is now."

Asked if he would like to be brought into the development system by FFA, Magrone replied: "Of course I would because I am confident I could help lift the level of players we produce."

Magrone, who spent three years at Spurs as chief European scout and was then in charge of analysing the Premier League opposition for former manager Tim Sherwood, added: "After a couple of years working with Mass I was fending off approaches from the AIS and the Australian Under-17s.

"He was a bit of a star back then at youth level with St George and then Sydney Olympic. I took my academy team on tours interstate and also to Europe in 2009.

"We played seven games against the likes of AZ Alkmaar, Club Brugge, Groningen and PSV – and we were tearing teams apart.

"It culminated when we beat Club Brugge 4-2 and Mass scored two frighteningly good goals. After that there was PSV, Ajax and Groningen on the phone saying, 'Who is your No.10? He has the ball on a string’.

"But I had contacts with Tim Sherwood at Tottenham and we decided England was the best place for him."

Magrone, who spent several months with Queens Park Rangers and Wolverhampton as a would-be professional himself without ever winning a contract, says he learned from his own failures in knowing what is required for others to make it.

"I didn't crack it for a couple of reasons and one of them was the lack of grounding – I didn’t have anybody like myself helping me before I left Australia,” he said.

Magrone believes that the AIS should return to the days of sending touring teams overseas for extended periods, explaining: “That’s a big factor. The AIS produced players like Mark Viduka by constantly travelling to play quality opposition in Europe and South America, that helped ready those players for the bigger stage.”

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/01/15/luongo-mentor-says-rising-star-can-be-first-many


These quotes from a former youth development coach in Australia seem to be at odds with the current curriculum for youth national teams.

Just curious whether there is any accuracy in what he is trying to say.
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