♔ ♕ ♚ ♛ Australia U17/U20/U23 National Team Tournaments & Discussion Thread ♔ ♕ ♚ ♛


♔ ♕ ♚ ♛ Australia U17/U20/U23 National Team Tournaments & Discussion...

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Robbo
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GloryPerth wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
Did Mells play?

Also, is Okon REALLY that bad or do people just overreact?


This is the thing and we hope this is being properly assessed through channels above Okon - FFA CoE TD, Peter De Roo is over there with the group this tournament and I'm not sure if FFA TD, Eric Abrams is aswell - though the former could easily report to the latter, any details. Abrams in his position, would/should be the one to oversee the youth NTs and how they are performing and how the NT staff are performing to their own expected performance criteria and standards set by the FFA through the TD. A coach in that position, for the length of time Okon's been in it (Since 2012) - there must be some level of measurable improvement in his teams' performances over the two or three Young Socceroos generations he's overseen. IF they're improving in performance under Okon's guidance, then that should naturally be seeing some gradually improving results in the overall picture.

No matter who's in the job, these roles should see a performance review after every generational cycle! Okon has see through atleast one cycle (2013), to mixed success, so, in-theory, this should be his last chance to impress really. Especially as he was appointed by, or entered into the job during the reign of the previous TD, Han Berger - Eric Abrams is in the role now and may bring fresh eyes and have new ideas and/or greater remit from the FFA, to enact change, a change in direction, when opportunity arises.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 03:25:22 AM


Eric Abrams is TD for players up to the age of 16.
Peter de roo overseas the FFA Co (ais) of full time scholarship holders meaning up to joeys level.
Craig Moore was the only contact point for overseas based players prior to leaving the role
Ange and Luke casserly are responsible for young socceroos and olyroos. The head coach of young socceroos (okon) is the assistant to A Vidmar the head coach for the olyroos, who is in tur assistant to ange in the
Socceroos. This is meant to allow the philosophy to cascade down to youth teams.

It's correct to question the coaching ability but I think to lack of depth or knowledge of players in each age group is the major deficiency facing oz football. If you look at the powerhouses of football they don't simply have one squad for each age group. They have a multitude of players that have attend camps, played friendless or participated under the eye of the respective coach. A college of mine gave me the details of one European country for the age group born 1997. In the space of one year that country had invited, viewed, assessed over 96 players before deciding on a squad of 26 a class players, 52 b class players.
I was told the reason for such a broad net is two fold
1. Give the players confidence that they are being recongised for their efforts and are on the radar
2. By being listed as national players it helped all 96 secure contracts with better clubs throughout Europe

Now compare this approach to the joeys selection process and the young socceroos process. Barca for life is correct we don't take youth football seriously. When was the last time Okon or A vidmar or T Vidmar scouted players locally or overseas...


Edited
9 Years Ago by Robbo
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Thanks for that Robbo - Though I presume Eric Abrams is also the head or oversees the wider technical staff under him, within the FFA or I mean, he's certainly the apex of the technical side of things, at the FFA?

Ahh you are right, Luke Casserly is the 'Head of National Performance' - Seems he's the guy to be addressing the issues of our concern?

http://www.footballnsw.com.au/index.php?id=149&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=8190&cHash=5e68435f3cd9634c9e3c5e16c115a28b

With Talent Identification and monitoring (Euro-based), I think that's a slightly different and perhaps in bigger picture issue. In a way I shy away, as costs come into this (Tight purse strings, look at the CBA Saga recently) and perhaps that's why the FFA don't extend further in regards to scouting and Craig Moore/Stu McLaren type roles in Europe? Atleast with assessing Okon and co, that may be less a cost issue and more just whatever procedures and methods of assessment, are under-taken (Casserly's area)?

FTR I certainly agree that we need to monitor, engage and select more of where possible, some of these talents, to see if they warrant/earn the selection. I think we need to be careful not to presume the grass is always greener though, as just because one transfers overseas doesn't necessarily instantly make them superior to some of our local talents - especially those pushing through to senior level in the A-League. Our coaches are right insofar as senior football/appearances trump youth/lack of football, full stop. The more of our Young Socceroos generations featuring in the A-League or senior football elsewhere, the better our Young Socceroos generations will be.

I like your bigger squad, pool of players idea and from top-down level, Ange certainly is utilising this (Including bringing Olyroos and talents like Chris Ikonomidis into the senior NT fold). Hopefully, as part of talent identification and broadening the net/pool, our younger 'aged' teams start to scope more widely the pools for their aged groups too. I think, relative to the late 00s, it's certainly improved, but still alot more room for improvement. I don't know why they don't send Okon and staff to Europe for a European Camp of the type you describe (Just to assess the dozens of age-eligible 'Aussies Abroad' there), but maybe they are trying to balance the local/overseas emphasis and trying not to encourage more young/pre-18 youths from moving overseas as the A-League's remit is to encourage more locals to stay - albeit the opportunities to gain a contract with A-League and/or their NYL teams is still quite slim with the 10-team league. Still it would seem best to broaden the net as wide as possible, as you argue Robbo.

Also,

Jonsnow wrote:
Robbo , not sure of this but have heard DDS was asked but club declined also Tanner at Blackburn ?
In regards to rotation apparently 4/5 players did not get any gametime and others played 3 straight , cant confirm though.


if Jonsnow is right and DDS declined and others like Hyuga Tanner haven't come in for similar reasons (He's featured for the previous Joeys gen though?! :? ) - then not so much we can do about that? Though DDS declining due to pushing through with Roda JC isn't such a bad thing tbh - DDS has alot on his plate with coming Olyroos commitments too. So he's an exception to the rule as he's well leapfrogged this generation.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 05:17:45 AM
Edited
9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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lebo_roo wrote:
Anyone heard anything about any tv coverage for the Olyroos two matches against South Korea being played this week?


No idea, has Foxsports advertised - do they usually telecast Olyroos friendlies? We may be hoping for too much in that regard (Sadly) - so may have to rely on good ole dodgy streams, once again! I guess we'd better brush up on our Korean? :p
Edited
9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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Gloryperth - our theory of Lack of depth when engaging players for oz youth teams will be tested again in the upcoming u17s World Cup. Looking at the selected squads for the last three tournament since December 2014 indicates that only a total of 28 players have been utilized. 21 of those have been selected for the up coming World Cup.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Robbo
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Robbo wrote:
Gloryperth - our theory of Lack of depth when engaging players for oz youth teams will be tested again in the upcoming u17s World Cup. Looking at the selected squads for the last three tournament since December 2014 indicates that only a total of 28 players have been utilized. 21 of those have been selected for the up coming World Cup.


Gee that's quite a surprise and seems quite disappointing. :/ TBRH This thread of TheSelectFew's gets me damn confused - We're talking the 1997-born Young Socceroos I presume... ah yes, the 1995 cycle is over (They didn't make the U20 WC)... oh never mind, I see we're talking 'current' 1998-9-born Joeys will feature at this month's U17 World Cup.

Ok, there's quite a difference between the Young Socceroos (U19/20s) and the Joeys (U16/17s) - I think with the Joeys it's alot narrower for reasons I don't entirely grasp, but from what little I gather, somewhat understand. From what I gather they prefer a tighter group, squad, to mould for the cycle and that group tends to be compromised more of the local 'Centre of Excellence' talent? I know this is opposed to what we just discussed, but at U16s/17s level it may be a different beast and perhaps having the tighter, familiar, collective is the recommended way to go, just as Jonsnow and others discussed how Japan had a camp with the same group of players for weeks as prep for the U19s tournament?

I think the Young Socceroos, yes, a much broader and diverse pool, broaden that net as much as possible - there is a growing list who are playing or very near to playing senior football too. The Young Socceroos level is the dawn of senior football and Olyroos level with some of the very best of the U20s talents even pushing the older Olyroos and even Socceroos level (Look at Ikon and DDS). But at Joeys level, it's ever more about development aspect and refining that group/tight unit I guess? In that way I can sympathise with the microcosmic, even slightly insular, approach? Flipside, at that age-level, the 'initial' wider net, talent identification pool is scoured via those National U15/16s National Championships (State-based teams)? :-k

Tony Vidmar has seemed to have done quite a good job there, or so far anyway - the Joeys performed very well in the 2014 AFC U16 Championships to qualify for this month's U17 World Cup, the talent on show there quite impressed. They have a tough task with their group of death though. I think we can be more forgiving of Tony Vidmar and the Joeys regime, than we can of Okon and the Young Socceroos regime - where we naturally expect a bit more, of the older age-group and of a regime who's been in-charge a bit longer too.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 07:06:46 AM
Edited
9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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nickk wrote:
I will bet a million dollars that Okon did not do a proper full rotation. Any coach in any sport could have done a better job than Okon.
The sad part is he will keep the job after they qualify in second.


v Phillipines:

1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE    off@70'
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    off@78'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   off@65'
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE    on@65'
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    on@70'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC on@78'


v Laos:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    off@83'
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI (C)   
8   MF   BRANDON WILSON    off@62'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC
12   GK   JORDAN HOLMES   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
23   DF   GEORGE CHRISTOS TIMOTHEOU   
24   MF   CAMERON DEVLIN   
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI    off@75'

Subs:
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS    on@75'
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY    on@62'
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH    on@83'


v Japan:
1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE   
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS   
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC    off@90'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    on@90'
Edited
9 Years Ago by paladisious
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We lost which is disappointing, however, it looks like we have qualified as one of the five best placed runners up.

The Qualified teams are:

Bahrain - Hosts 8th Runners-up (1986)
Japan - Group J winners 18th Runners-up (1973, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2006)
Iraq - Group F winners 17th Champions (1975, 1977, 1978, 1988, 2000)
China PR - Group I winners 16th Champions (1985)
Vietnam - Group G winners 7th Third place (1964)
Uzbekistan - Group A winners 7th Runners-up (2008)
South Korea - Group H winners 37th Champions (1959, 1960, 1963, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1990, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2004, 2012)
Tajikistan - Group F (1st best) runners-up 3rd Group stage (2006, 2008)
United Arab Emirates - Group C winners 13th Champions (2008)
Australia - Group J (2nd best) runners-up 6th Runners-up (2010)
Qatar - Group D winners 13th Champions (2014)
Thailand - Group H (3rd best) runners-up 27th Champions (1962, 1969)
Saudi Arabia - Group B winners 12th Champions (1986, 1992)
North Korea - Group I (4th best) runners-up 12th Champions (1976, 2006, 2010)
Iran - Group E winners 18th Champions (1973, 1974, 1975, 1976)
Yemen - Group B (5th best) runners-up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_AFC_U-19_Championship
Edited
9 Years Ago by chicko1983
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Barca4Life wrote:
grazorblade wrote:
Barca4Life wrote:
Same old story all the time with our youth teams, why bother showing any interest....:roll:

We aren't good enough and we will never improve until the FFA show some initiative and try to make big changes at youth development and with our youth teams.

At the moment it's safe to say nothing is going to happen in fact we are probably going backwards.

Edited by Barca4life: 6/10/2015 09:50:54 PM

what changes would you make
admittedly im an okon skeptic so that would be one change. Take him out of the picture and there appears to be gradual improvement


But how are we improving though? Don't forget the rest of the world is trying to improve as well.

If not the changes we have made is not near enough to make some inroads regards to closing with the rest of the world.

The Joeys recently lost to France 6-0 and just yesterday lost to Sydney FC youth team 2-1 whom haven't played with each other for months.

I know results should not be the final outcome but it's a not a good look and i wonder what the FFA are going to do about this.

I hate to use excuses but the results show we aren't good as what people think?

Agree we need much better coaches in charge of our youth teams in order to get better results, we haven't had one since Scheinflug in the 90s.

Edited by Barca4life: 6/10/2015 10:16:28 PM


watching a league graduates in europe there seems to have been gradual improvement. 7-8 years ago a league graduates were flops, then a few years later they could break into second level leagues after a year or so sitting on the bench. Now as long as injuries don't stop them they can break into a number of decent leagues straight away. Its gradual improvement and we are chasing a moving target

but the thing is I can't think of many ways of improving things beyond what the ffa is doing.
The NTC seems pretty logical to me (have you read it? Pdf copies are online). The next step of improving the number of full time youth players seems logical. Introducing an organized npl seems logical. Integrating the npl with nyl seems logical

I advocate a second teir but beyond that I'm out of ideas. Bender_Palmer has taken the initiative of making some suggestions in the performance section but while this is very constructive and appreciated I find his ideas less than convincing.

Others have suggested promo-relegation produces an arms race for youth development. This is an interesting idea. Problem is I can't see how it can be implemented sustainably until we have at least 2 leagues with 16 sides in each which is probably 30 years away if we are lucky.....

Okon sides have noticeably underpeformed in both results (which I buy don't matter at this age) and performance whenever I have watched them. But thats all I can think of and its a pretty small change.
Edited
9 Years Ago by grazorblade
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Thank goodness we qualified.


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9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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We qualified but it doesn't hide the fact that there is deep flaws with the youth teams and with our youth system which needs some evaluating.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Not surprised at all by the result.. It's not a good one but hey, not unexpected. Still qualified, so that's good.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Draupnir
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Well at least the FFA have reported on the loss , so at least they are not sticking head in the sand.
Interesting that we conceded 2 goals in first half injury time , one from a penalty , and then after 75 mins give away another penalty.
Sounds like a fitness problem tbh and looking at our squad all of the aleague players were basically on pre season , this only left the overseas player which were in season .
Need to look at this prior to Asian cup next year or it could be ugly in the heat of Bahrain :(


Edited
9 Years Ago by Jonsnow
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paladisious wrote:
nickk wrote:
I will bet a million dollars that Okon did not do a proper full rotation. Any coach in any sport could have done a better job than Okon.
The sad part is he will keep the job after they qualify in second.


v Phillipines:

1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE    off@70'
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    off@78'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   off@65'
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE    on@65'
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    on@70'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC on@78'


v Laos:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    off@83'
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI (C)   
8   MF   BRANDON WILSON    off@62'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC
12   GK   JORDAN HOLMES   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
23   DF   GEORGE CHRISTOS TIMOTHEOU   
24   MF   CAMERON DEVLIN   
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI    off@75'

Subs:
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS    on@75'
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY    on@62'
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH    on@83'


v Japan:
1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE   
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS   
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC    off@90'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    on@90'


There you have the explanation there by Okon standards it wasn't him going full retard, but he did have 3 players playing 3 games in a row, and a further 2 playing 2 matches in a row. The number one problem with our youth football is the stubborn obstinate idiocy with playing the same players with games 2 day part.
Edited
9 Years Ago by nickk
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Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.
Edited
9 Years Ago by nickk
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nickk wrote:
Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.


Okon coached teams have noticeably been below par compared to other youth teams

this is accentuated by the fact that some of the players he has coached have looked good in the a league.

If it was just the results well you could just say "performance over results" however whenever I see his teams play we don't seem to be able to recycle possession, play with rhythm changes and the ball carrier is often struggling to find options even if he has time or space. He also plays with 2 Defensive mids against teams parking the bus and playing on the counter. I rarely see him rotate the midfield triangle
Edited
9 Years Ago by grazorblade
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nickk wrote:
Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.



To the Japs its all about the team and the squad first and foremost ,there are very few egos involved at youth level,just the honour to play for ones country,regardless of which team they would have put out against Australia you can guarantee that they were 100% fit and ready to play ,as most would have had a 4 day break .

simple really ,its tournament football you take 23 players for a reason ,not for a holiday.


Edited
9 Years Ago by Jonsnow
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Quote:
but the thing is I can't think of many ways of improving things beyond what the ffa is doing.
The NTC seems pretty logical to me (have you read it? Pdf copies are online). The next step of improving the number of full time youth players seems logical. Introducing an organized npl seems logical. Integrating the npl with nyl seems logical



What do you think about the FFA helping all the HAL clubs set up juniors from U12-U14-U16-U18's with 22 players per squad playing in the respective NPL comps with the best coaches in there respective states. Get rid of the state squads have the respective state federations also chip in. That way the same (in some states) if not double or triple the amount of young players (compared to the state programs) will have the opportunity to be a part of an elite program.

No need then for COE/state squads, still have the national youth championships and Joeys etc but picked on a camp/trial bases brought in for 4-6 weeks prior to the tournament.
Even if the FFA and State Fed's put in the same money as they currently do into youth development, wouldn't this be easier to manage and monitor? Not to mention less players being missed.


Edited
9 Years Ago by JDB03
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JDB03 wrote:
Quote:
but the thing is I can't think of many ways of improving things beyond what the ffa is doing.
The NTC seems pretty logical to me (have you read it? Pdf copies are online). The next step of improving the number of full time youth players seems logical. Introducing an organized npl seems logical. Integrating the npl with nyl seems logical



What do you think about the FFA helping all the HAL clubs set up juniors from U12-U14-U16-U18's with 22 players per squad playing in the respective NPL comps with the best coaches in there respective states. Get rid of the state squads have the respective state federations also chip in. That way the same (in some states) if not double or triple the amount of young players (compared to the state programs) will have the opportunity to be a part of an elite program.

No need then for COE/state squads, still have the national youth championships and Joeys etc but picked on a camp/trial bases brought in for 4-6 weeks prior to the tournament.
Even if the FFA and State Fed's put in the same money as they currently do into youth development, wouldn't this be easier to manage and monitor? Not to mention less players being missed.



Well i can tell the fact this is going to happen in NSW from next year, it's also part of the Whole Of Football Plan strategy with youth development.

Agree the FFA COE will come with more scrutiny from now on.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Jonsnow wrote:
nickk wrote:
Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.



To the Japs its all about the team and the squad first and foremost ,there are very few egos involved at youth level,just the honour to play for ones country,regardless of which team they would have put out against Australia you can guarantee that they were 100% fit and ready to play ,as most would have had a 4 day break .

simple really ,its tournament football you take 23 players for a reason ,not for a holiday.


Unfortunately Aus. Football has the tendency to put ego ahead of what best for football, too many chiefs and not enough indians.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Barca4Life wrote:
Jonsnow wrote:
nickk wrote:
Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.



To the Japs its all about the team and the squad first and foremost ,there are very few egos involved at youth level,just the honour to play for ones country,regardless of which team they would have put out against Australia you can guarantee that they were 100% fit and ready to play ,as most would have had a 4 day break .

simple really ,its tournament football you take 23 players for a reason ,not for a holiday.


Unfortunately Aus. Football has the tendency to put ego ahead of what best for football, too many chiefs and not enough indians.


Hahaha ,we got plenty of indians ,its all about which tribe they are from ;)


Edited
9 Years Ago by Jonsnow
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JDB03 wrote:
Quote:
but the thing is I can't think of many ways of improving things beyond what the ffa is doing.
The NTC seems pretty logical to me (have you read it? Pdf copies are online). The next step of improving the number of full time youth players seems logical. Introducing an organized npl seems logical. Integrating the npl with nyl seems logical



What do you think about the FFA helping all the HAL clubs set up juniors from U12-U14-U16-U18's with 22 players per squad playing in the respective NPL comps with the best coaches in there respective states. Get rid of the state squads have the respective state federations also chip in. That way the same (in some states) if not double or triple the amount of young players (compared to the state programs) will have the opportunity to be a part of an elite program.

No need then for COE/state squads, still have the national youth championships and Joeys etc but picked on a camp/trial bases brought in for 4-6 weeks prior to the tournament.
Even if the FFA and State Fed's put in the same money as they currently do into youth development, wouldn't this be easier to manage and monitor? Not to mention less players being missed.



Its a good idea but I thought this exact idea was announced recently as what the FFA is doing. I could be wrong though?
Edited
9 Years Ago by grazorblade
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Barca4Life wrote:
Same old story all the time with our youth teams, why bother showing any interest....:roll:

We aren't good enough and we will never improve until the FFA show some initiative and try to make big changes at youth development and with our youth teams.

At the moment it's safe to say nothing is going to happen in fact we are probably going backwards.

Edited by Barca4life: 6/10/2015 09:50:54 PM


These were the U19 though.

When sweeping changes were made in 06 re intro of small sided games, these players were already 8-9 years old and were thus 3 years late.

The age group that I pay most attention towards is the U17 which has its world cup later this month. 3 huge games against Mexico, Germany and Argentina. Will be hard to get out of the group stage but if we do the signs will be much more encouraging.

The loss against France and Thailand recently is a bit concerning though.

Looking forward to seeing the U15 too. Does anyone have any info regarding them (Decentric?) These new age groups have gone through the curriculum from the start. If we don't produce talent with these new teams as they come through then it will be very concerning indeed and a full review will be in order.

Can someone please explain why though we have the 2 Vidmars and Okon at the helms of youth squads? Surely we should be trying to snatch/invest in the very best coaching talent from overseas and then use those coaches to mentor aussie coaches. A bit like Gus Hiddink did with Arnie. I don't think we can underestimate the value in investing in coaching. None of these 3 coaches have been able to prove themselves by teaching at the best clubs from around the world so why are we relying on them??



Edited by Davo1985: 7/10/2015 03:22:39 PM
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9 Years Ago by Davo1985
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Barca4Life wrote:
We qualified but it doesn't hide the fact that there is deep flaws with the youth teams and with our youth system which needs some evaluating.


I might add that while i was doing some historical research on U17 and U20 for Australia I checked out the stats for both France and Belgium. Neither are historically very impressive really which might tell you that at this age, results at these tournaments are not a guide to the way they will perform once they develop as full adult players.

I'm much more interested in the technical level of play. How we control the ball and read the play as well as movement off the ball. These are vital skills that you can't learn easily at this age if you haven't been taught how to play as a child.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium_national_under-17_football_team
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium_national_under-21_football_team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_under-17_football_team
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_under-20_football_team
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davo1985
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Davo1985 wrote:
Barca4Life wrote:
We qualified but it doesn't hide the fact that there is deep flaws with the youth teams and with our youth system which needs some evaluating.


I might add that while i was doing some historical research on U17 and U20 for Australia I checked out the stats for both France and Belgium. Neither are historically very impressive really which might tell you that at this age, results at these tournaments are not a guide to the way they will perform once they develop as full adult players.

I'm much more interested in the technical level of play. How we control the ball and read the play as well as movement off the ball. These are vital skills that you can't learn easily at this age if you haven't been taught how to play as a child.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium_national_under-17_football_team
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium_national_under-21_football_team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_under-17_football_team
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_under-20_football_team


The argument is not about results of oz youth teams, it's about our style we play and player monitoring processes. It's obvious we play a possession based style that was used regularly by world wide youth teams approximately 4-5 years ago. Their styles have now progressed to incorporate possession with purposeful outcomes.

Example- create overloads in left side in order to switch quickly to right side and create penetrating opportunities to score. We on the other hand create overloads and they play back first before switching...... Normally to late because the opposition has adjusted .

We are watching and playing a style that's outdated and nobody at the FFA is doing a thing about it. The educators haven't evolved nor has our teaching philosophy, whereas other counties have..... Why?.

Edited by robbo: 7/10/2015 06:40:51 PM
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9 Years Ago by Robbo
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Robbo wrote:
We are watching and playing a style that's outdated and nobody at the FFA is doing a thing about it. The educators haven't evolved nor has our teaching philosophy, whereas other counties have..... Why?


Probably because they've always been ahead of us, so their ability to change/evolve is going to be easier/quicker, especially at this point in time. We've only really just started (and from a really low base at that).
Edited
9 Years Ago by libel
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chicko1983 wrote:
We lost which is disappointing, however, it looks like we have qualified as one of the five best placed runners up.

The Qualified teams are:

Bahrain - Hosts 8th Runners-up (1986)
Japan - Group J winners 18th Runners-up (1973, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2006)
Iraq - Group F winners 17th Champions (1975, 1977, 1978, 1988, 2000)
China PR - Group I winners 16th Champions (1985)
Vietnam - Group G winners 7th Third place (1964)
Uzbekistan - Group A winners 7th Runners-up (2008)
South Korea - Group H winners 37th Champions (1959, 1960, 1963, 1978, 1980, 1982, 1990, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2004, 2012)
Tajikistan - Group F (1st best) runners-up 3rd Group stage (2006, 2008)
United Arab Emirates - Group C winners 13th Champions (2008)
Australia - Group J (2nd best) runners-up 6th Runners-up (2010)
Qatar - Group D winners 13th Champions (2014)
Thailand - Group H (3rd best) runners-up 27th Champions (1962, 1969)
Saudi Arabia - Group B winners 12th Champions (1986, 1992)
North Korea - Group I (4th best) runners-up 12th Champions (1976, 2006, 2010)
Iran - Group E winners 18th Champions (1973, 1974, 1975, 1976)
Yemen - Group B (5th best) runners-up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_AFC_U-19_Championship


Thanks for that chicko, that's a relief I guess - hopefully the team and set up can step up come the qualifying tournament proper. There will be no room for errors and no second chances - no easy beats and higher stakes. In the recent past, many of the aged NT teams who have successfully qualified, have only JUST done so, by scraping through into the Semi-Finals of their cycle's AFC U16s or AFC U19s Championships. That included some good, competitive teams with some decent talents - some who've pushed through to the senior teams.

Once again, we need to see more of these boys pushing through to A-League level or senior level elsewhere, this coming season. That would help this team's prospects tremendously, come the 2016 AFC U19 Champs.
Edited
9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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libel wrote:
Robbo wrote:
We are watching and playing a style that's outdated and nobody at the FFA is doing a thing about it. The educators haven't evolved nor has our teaching philosophy, whereas other counties have..... Why?


Probably because they've always been ahead of us, so their ability to change/evolve is going to be easier/quicker, especially at this point in time. We've only really just started (and from a really low base at that).


I remember one time Han Berger said about the level of coaching 5 years ago was very low and no team played the modern way unlike in Europe which is the standard and which is why they are always evolving from us but then again given our very poor coaching standards in past before the NC era, Decentric would know this well :D

I guess a bit of perspective is needed here given we have come from a low base, so it always be a struggle to keep up with the recent trends, our geo. disadvantage and the lack of football discussed in the media does not help either.

They have the advantage of watching and viewing matches in detail so given the competitiveness and true knowledge of their football is a lot more stronger than us.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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grazorblade wrote:
nickk wrote:
Japan played their first team in the first match, in the second match they did a complete rotation with a totally new starting line up,
third match they went back to the team from the first match.
How can you lose 3-0 to a team which only beat Laos 2-0 , its simple hire the idiots called Okon.


Okon coached teams have noticeably been below par compared to other youth teams

this is accentuated by the fact that some of the players he has coached have looked good in the a league.

If it was just the results well you could just say "performance over results" however whenever I see his teams play we don't seem to be able to recycle possession, play with rhythm changes and the ball carrier is often struggling to find options even if he has time or space. He also plays with 2 Defensive mids against teams parking the bus and playing on the counter. I rarely see him rotate the midfield triangle


I have to agree, from what little I've seen of the teams via streams and from reports, Okon's teams have displayed this common tendency and going back, Okon was appointed circa 2012 when the aged NTs were during the era of Holger as Socceroos coach and Han Berger was the FFA's TD. Okon came in as the FFA 're-structured' the role that Versleijen had held, splitting it from then being a coach overseeing both the U20s and U17s, back to two separate roles. Okon became the coach of the U20s and Tony Vidmar the U17s ofcourse. It's been that way since. Though since then we've had a new TD come in late last year, with Belgian Eric Abrams. We've had a new technical role created to oversee these teams, 'Head of Performance' with Luke Casserly appointed to the role, also late last year. David Gallop also came in as the FFA's new CEO, late 2012.

So while Okon in his position as Young Socceroos coach hasn't changed during this period, the landscape surrounding him certainly has and with the improving prospects and talent pool of the Joeys, under Tony Vidmar and generally improved levels and talent coming through, expectations are arguably higher than they've ever been. But there is a performance lag around the U20s teams during this period and that surely has to be addressed soon.

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 08:48:46 PM
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9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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nickk wrote:
paladisious wrote:
nickk wrote:
I will bet a million dollars that Okon did not do a proper full rotation. Any coach in any sport could have done a better job than Okon.
The sad part is he will keep the job after they qualify in second.


v Phillipines:

1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE    off@70'
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    off@78'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   off@65'
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE    on@65'
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    on@70'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC on@78'


v Laos:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    off@83'
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI (C)   
8   MF   BRANDON WILSON    off@62'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC
12   GK   JORDAN HOLMES   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
23   DF   GEORGE CHRISTOS TIMOTHEOU   
24   MF   CAMERON DEVLIN   
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI    off@75'

Subs:
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS    on@75'
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY    on@62'
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH    on@83'


v Japan:
1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE   
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS   
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC    off@90'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    on@90'


There you have the explanation there by Okon standards it wasn't him going full retard, but he did have 3 players playing 3 games in a row, and a further 2 playing 2 matches in a row. The number one problem with our youth football is the stubborn obstinate idiocy with playing the same players with games 2 day part.


I have to agree Nickk and that's surely reflected in the costly errors of game three - two goals conceded in First-Half Stoppage time isn't normal, even by youth standards. Tiredness and tournament fatigue are usually at play and we saw that with the Joeys I think, recently too - by time of the third or fourth match within the week, performance levels are ofcourse down and it's as much about managing the players, their fitness and fatigue and preventing injury.

Anyway of the squad that Paladisious has listed there, we see some A-League talents already - The Kuzmanovski's, Gersbach's, Alessi's, Fofanah's, Youlley's, Liam Rose's and hopefully the likes of Mells, Shabow and a number of these others join them this season. There are other 1997-born talents pushing through too, like George Blackwood with SFC, Anthony Kalik at Mariners.

There's also all those maturing 1998/9 gen Joeys talent that will feature at this month's U17 World Cup. We already see Nicholas D'Agostino (1998-born, Roar NYL team, Striker), who failed to make that squad, feature in this one. Surely the likes of Daniel Arzani, Jake Brimmer, Cameron Joice, Pana Armenakas and others will be pushing some of the current bunch for a spot in that 2016 U19 Champs squad - strengthening the depth of that talent pool and competition for places ever more. We've already seen Arzani called up with Young Socceroos squads, so we'll definitely see some of them pushing through - especially if they surpass expectations at the U17 WC!

So between now (15/16 season) and October 2016 (Entering the 16/17 season) - plenty of time for some the talent pool just below the above bunch, to push through!

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 09:11:12 PM
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9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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GloryPerth wrote:
nickk wrote:
paladisious wrote:
nickk wrote:
I will bet a million dollars that Okon did not do a proper full rotation. Any coach in any sport could have done a better job than Okon.
The sad part is he will keep the job after they qualify in second.


v Phillipines:

1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE    off@70'
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    off@78'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   off@65'
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE    on@65'
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    on@70'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC on@78'


v Laos:
3   DF   CONNOR O'TOOLE   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW    off@83'
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI (C)   
8   MF   BRANDON WILSON    off@62'
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC
12   GK   JORDAN HOLMES   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
23   DF   GEORGE CHRISTOS TIMOTHEOU   
24   MF   CAMERON DEVLIN   
32   FW   WILLIAM MUTCH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI    off@75'

Subs:
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS    on@75'
19   MF   LIAM YOULLEY    on@62'
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH    on@83'


v Japan:
1   GK   TOM GLOVER   
2   DF   THOMAS DENG   
4   MF   MARIO SHABOW   
5   DF   DANIEL ALESSI   
6   MF   LIAM ROSE   
7   FW   LACHLAN ROBERTS   
10   FW   DEJAN PANDUREVIC    off@90'
14   DF   ALEXANDER JOSEPH GERSBACH (C)   
16   MF   GEORGE MELLS   
21   FW   ALUSINE FOFANAH   
46   FW   STEVE KUZMANOVSKI

Subs:
11   FW   NICHOLAS D'AGOSTINO    on@90'


There you have the explanation there by Okon standards it wasn't him going full retard, but he did have 3 players playing 3 games in a row, and a further 2 playing 2 matches in a row. The number one problem with our youth football is the stubborn obstinate idiocy with playing the same players with games 2 day part.


I have to agree Nickk and that's surely reflected in the costly errors of game three - two goals conceded in First-Half Stoppage time isn't normal, even by youth standards. Tiredness and tournament fatigue are usually at play and we saw that with the Joeys I think, recently too - by time of the third or fourth match within the week, performance levels are ofcourse down and it's as much about managing the players, their fitness and fatigue and preventing injury.

Anyway of the squad that Paladisious has listed there, we see some A-League talents already - The Kuzmanovski's, Gersbach's, Alessi's, Fofanah's, Youlley's, Liam Rose's and hopefully the likes of Mells, Shabow and a number of these others join them this season. There are other 1997-born talents pushing through too, like George Blackwood with SFC, Anthony Kalik at Mariners.

There's also all those maturing 1998/9 gen Joeys talent that will feature at this month's U17 World Cup. We already see Nicholas D'Agostino (1998-born, Roar NYL team, Striker), who failed to make that squad, feature in this one. Surely the likes of Daniel Arzani, Jake Brimmer, Cameron Joice, Pana Armenakas and others will be pushing some of the current bunch for a spot in that 2016 U19 Champs squad - strengthening the depth of that talent pool and competition for places ever more. We've already seen Arzani called up with Young Socceroos squads, so we'll definitely see some of them pushing through - especially if they surpass expectations at the U17 WC!

So between now (15/16 season) and October 2016 (Entering the 16/17 season) - plenty of time for some the talent pool just below the above bunch, to push through!

Edited by GloryPerth: 7/10/2015 09:11:12 PM


I'll be honest here , I don't think there are many from current Joeys squad that can put pressure on the u19s squad that have just played , maybe the joeys striker is a chance but the midfield ? No , the defenders ? No
Possible right back , possible left sided attacker?keepers are all class .
Just my pinion :)


Edited
9 Years Ago by Jonsnow
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