Quite but this just a bit of fun. I don't think anybody is putting money on this sort of thing.



Have a horrid suspicion you are right. I think Giannou, Sainsbury and Spiranovic were incredibly stupid to go there. If we had better options, I'd hope that Ange would basically say that (unless a player is head and shoulders better than everybody in the country) they won't be selected for the NT while they play club football in China.

It's a slightly different story for Cahill, though. They guy will be about 38 by the time of Russia. He has basically said that he has only been able to keep performing so well for the Socceroos because he quit intense football like the EPL at the right time. So I think it's acceptable for him to play in China.



He didn't really though, did he. He still picks Milligan. I think Troisi still makes squads at the very least. There might be another who in the Middle-East who gets picked too.

I think he should put his foot down and say what I think he should about China, too.

Not sure Mooy is quick enough or consistent enough against quality opponents. Even in one of the recent qualifiers, before he started to hit his straps (when became excellent), he coughed up the ball too easily early on in the game when he had a lot of time. And that was against pisspoor opposition. If it's as I fear, then he and Jedinak as a CDM pairing would be hugely problematic for us. We'd lack the speed and technique to move it around quickly.

It also places a lot of pressure on Ikonomidis as a route to goal, given Leckie's shortcomings.

The entire style Ange will have us playing is not quick enough. You just gotta prey the passing is good.

I like Rogic better through the middle than Mooy even on the pitch. I guess Mooy's passing would be best for that deep lying midfield role But seriously. The prob is going to also be getting forward with success. Luongo can and has provided more than a midfielder for the NT. He gets well forward and gives options to everyone who is stuck (which happens a lot). So you have Rogic who can penetrate and do a way better job of slicing teams up through the middle, then the option of Luongo who can hang around and provide an option by option by option and feed off the incompetent

We can stand around the box all day passing doesn't really look great. Think the thing we want is penetrating runs from forwards Ikon and Leckie. Cahill is not the man for me. Screws the style up twists it up into a ball of shit unless he's willing to recieve and lay off to people . Usually that's not his first option though, it's roughing up the oppo CB's and smashing every cunt in the box to get 1 lousy header

you'd have to weigh up your options. No Rogic - Mooy. Rogic - Luongo , Need a good passer first. Luongo can play with either I think. I'd just hate to see a team with out Luongo because I think he's quite a rare type of player our NT needs especially when we're fucked out of ideas in build up - he's very proactive

highkick05

Wouldn't you have Rogic at CAM, though?

And Mooy and Luongo competing for CDM spots? That assuming two CDMs and one CAM. Rogic is basically in a league of his own for that position. Luongo and Mooy can play there but they're better suited to CDM. The only player who might compete with Rogic for the CAM position that I can think of is De Silva. Whereas there's any number of options for CDM.

considering form we cant leave Luongo and Mooy off the park. Rogic cannot defend and is the most forward orientated midfielder in the game.

that's why i put mooy and luongo on the sides of my formation - because they can cover and create.

--------------------------------------------Jedinak
----------Luongo------------------------------------------------------------Mooy
---------------------------------------------Rogic


I also think leckie might be better of playing deeper----


------------------------------------------jedinak
---------Luongo----------------------------------------------------------Leckie
------------------------------------------Mooy


Luongo plays as a defensive midfielder at QPR and did at Swindon. You can't play him further up the park - he has been played worse the further up the field he plays in the NT.

Rather than continue the pyramid and make a mess ill just make this post separately to address your points quickflick.

I think while ever Ange is in charge of Australia he is going to want a ball playing goal keeper, outside of Ryan we are quite thin on the ground. Langerak will remain number 2 to ryan because of this.

I accept your point about fullbacks being converted to wingers and that was certainly the case with Bale. The point I will make about Gersbach is when we look at his physical size already its not really suited to being a technical winger with the ability to drift inside and create space for his fullback to get into, nor from what I have seen is he good enough on his right foot to do so. I don't think a combination of him and smith will work as they are quite similar in the way they play, being they look to get passed their man, around the back of their winger to cross the all. Neither are inclined to play inside. I think it will be one or the other unless we are in desperate need. Its a good option to have. The other point I will make is that players who have been converted have mostly done so at their clubs where they have more time to learn and adapt as opposed to trying to do it in the week leading up to an international match. Chippers being the obvious black sheep in to that point.

Leckie has a role to play in our national team and one that really cant be underestimated when we play against teams who are going to dominate possession. His speed and engine mean he can really hassle opposition defences and cause turnovers. If he can improve his finishing and heading that would be a real bonus. You just aren't going to get the same amount of pressure out of Juric. I ignore Cahill in this purely because his days are numbered and we need to find other solutions. The main point I am making is that its horses for courses. In games where we are unlikely to have the ball id be more inclined to play with leckie up front. Against teams where we expect to create plenty of chances im more inclined to look to someone like McLaren or even bulut if he gets right as he can also do what leckie will do pressuring defences and is quite a good finisher in his own right, I've not seen giannou play at all so I cant make judgement on him. Juric's role is going to be interesting for Australia and his talents will really be complimented when playing with the likes of Kruse, Burns and Ikon as they look to come inside and play off the big centre forward.

My preferred frontline at this stage is probably:

-------------------------Juric----------------------------
Burns----------------Rogic------------------------Kruse

With ikon as the able replacement for either of the two wide players. Given ange wants to play with overlapping fullbacks, these three are currently our most able to play inside off juric or Bulut.

In midfield we have the dilemma of fitting the players in currently. I think it is going to be either a choice of Mooy or Rogic for the number 10 role, not both unless we are chasing the game. Rogic obviously has that x factor which you cant train but Mooy has work rate, set pieces and also the passing range that can come in handy at times. Where we are being afforded room I think id choose mooy, where is tight and we are being harried I lean towards rogic.

The number 8 or deep lying playmaker role is now interesting given that we have Antonis getting decent minutes as well as Luongo back in action. These two are the best suited to this role IMO with Mooy as the third option if we really need it. Luongo at the moment gets the role because of his experience and game time at club. I think antonis slightly shades him if we are in real need of physicality. I think id have antonis against the majority of the Asian teams just to muscle them out in midfield.

6 is the really interesting position where realistically I think we are somewhat light on if Jedinak is unavailable. I like to see us play with a sizeable 6 who can drop in between the centre halves to help defend. Im not overly concerned by their ability to play with the ball, as we allow ourselves good footballers in having antonis or luongo close for the six to play it to and start the play from deep. Also in spira and sains we have two very capable ball playing central defenders.

I fear for milligans international career going forward after his move and would now be looking to Irvine to stamp his authority over the position when jedinak is unavailable and to begin the transition from mile. I would be prepared to have a look at Griffiths, Holland and Degenek over the next two years to see if they are able to make the step up or not.

Brillante has a lot of work to do at club level IMO before he is considered again.

Apologies for another long winded post. Just trying to address your thoughts

Mooy plays as the CAM for city and is playing the best he has ever played. he is a much better all rounded player than Rogic. He is probably playing better than Rogic this year. But unlike Rogic, he can defend.

Of course you would have Rogic CAM. But he's the only elite passer we can afford bcos Luongo will need to be beside Jedinak cos he provides a lot more than Mooy in engine and up front. Will be cool to see him in apply more tackles

What I think is the thing you don't want is too much congestion when the ball is forward, or limited (2 wingers) players 1v1'ing all by themselves in area's that are just pointless. If we have too many passers in central midfield. You can bet Leckie & Ikon or whoever's job will be twice as hard , that's why you need Luongo helping out when we go forward w/ quick transition

Jedinak will never go forward. I think Luongo will move up the pitch a bit. Jedinak as sole DM is definately an option worth the team adjusting towards for the future cos the higher Mooy and Luongo can shift forward the more chances this style will work. So Mooy and Luongo playing in front of Jedinak is def worth it. Defense is much of an issue as attack atm and Luongo and Mooy have a duty to make sure the pressing is coughing the ball up frequently

too many up front was the issue when we last played 433 and got done by jordan.

luongo is a defensive mid/deep playmaker who does the job box to box.

mooy follows orders and will hang back.

rogic essentially operates as a deep striker/playmaker.

this gives space for leckie and jmac to move

the current 'fifa 16' 11.

positions are allotted by overall ranking.


-------------------------------------------Ryan 78
Milligan 71----------------Williams 73--------------Sainsbury 73--------Behich/Wilkshire 70
-----------------------------------------Jedinak 76
Troisi 72---------------------------------------------------------------------Leckie 73
-----------------------------------------------Mooy 75
-----------------------------Cahill 73----------------------Kruse 73

Transition is the key to remove congestion up front, as soon as the oppositions attack breaks down - and with these easy beat teams that will be as soon as it starts. You want the transition into attack to be quick, or , the space will cease to exist as the oppo defense constricts. This should be the only way to have success using Angeball

I think Ange doesn't get the guys in attack moving fast enough.

This is just my point I make about where you need as many options as possible to get that ball up front as quick as possible & you need the speed of midfielders to make second options for forwards after they recieve the ball and turn from midfield.

Most of the speed we move is completely stagnant. Slow to the point of stopping/starting. We play 2 DM's and we have literally, 2 Forwards and 1 midfielder (CAM) to do the job of breaking down a bus parked defense. And that's these 3 guys starting basically sitting between the oppositions strikers ffs. Which is going to be a really tough job to start with.

Which leads me to another flaw in Ange's game.

I know we have flanking RB/LB's but seriously you don't even want them being a part of the attack until the ball is literally well inside the oppo's defense. We almost try and use both a 1-2 passing game with flanking LB/RB AND at the same time 1-2 with flanking LW/RW who alarmingly have little success anyway

It seems really stupid to use both these forms of attack at the same time. Cos you are really leaving yourself vulnerable at the back. Ange seems to use both forms of attack which I think has lost him games when Davo and Franjic have been left flopping about up front trying to make something of a bus parked D

When has this team ever been available. Only on FIFA hey :D

Actually Asian Cup there you go.

they have all played over the last month.

Looking at the rankings.

We are currently in 67th at 506 points.

If we win against jordan and tajikistan we will be bumped up to 601. This will be one of the biggest single bumps for a few years. I think because it's the start of the year and the points are worked out on an average for the year.

752 for the jordan game,
319 for the taik game - it actually brings us down no matter what the outcome


Currently, 601 points would put us into 49th!!! and 2nd in Asia

between Senegal 603 and Trinidad/Tobago 498

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/index.html

The best FM16 XI

Ryan - 145

Franjic - 116
Wilkinson - 120
Williams - 122
Davidson - 112

Mooy - 128
Luongo - 124

Halloran - 117
Cahill - 124
Leckie - 133

Kruse - 130

I doubt he will, but will be interesting if he plays both Giannou and Maclaren in the same team, with a potential diamond midfield formation

Goodwin deserves a call up

Goodwin's been one of the form player sin the comp in a position we've had little consistency in.

How is that funny?

You're right, Craig Goodwin doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Dimitri Petratos.

yeah. we are totally short down the left hand side...

IIRC Leckie's injured and we still have no fullbacks.

Leckie's not injured, he played the entire 90 just days ago and hasn't missed a game in months :lol:

I would hope Ange would not be so stupid. For openers, Langerak is okay at distribution. He's nowhere near as good as Ryan, but he's not terrible.

Let's assume that by the time Russia 2018 is upon us, Ryan is not a particularly good shot-stopper, does not make the big, athletic saves, does command the area that well and and is still not particularly special at catching the ball. Of course, he may prove us wrong. I've seen the odd nice save from him at Valencia. If he is a shot-stopper with great reflexes, agility, hand-eye co-ordination, etc., then scrap this. But if he is still not those things...

For us to have any chance of getting out of the group (let alone winning a knock-out stage match), we will need a goalkeeper who can produce the big saves. Playing the ball out nicely is a secondary skill, not a primary one, for a goalkeeper. We will need a goalkeeper who can make the unbelievable saves. So far, I don't think this is Ryan. I think this might be Langerak.

We mustn't kid ourselves. We're going to get peppered by shots from world class opposition. For this, we need the best possible goalkeeper in the traditional sense. Ange would do well to remember this.

So Langerak needs to be playing and pronto. If he can prove himself in this respect, he ought to leapfrog Ryan. If he still doesn't get game time (and Mat Ryan hasn't improved) then we have a problem with our coach.



How do you mean Gersbach isn't the right size to be a technical winger? He's 6' and weighs in at 72kg. I'd say that's practically ideal. Either way, you may be right about he and Smith being the type to beat their man. But you can learn to cut inside. I don't think this would be problematic unduly and we haven't got better options.



Spot on. I'm not too sure about Juric, though. It is really horses for courses with Leckie. But, honestly, if we're not playing in a match in which we only need to draw or in which the opposition left-back is slow/suspect/whatever, I don't think Leckie should be starting at right-wing for the reasons you have given. He's not technically good enough. He is not good at scoring goals, he does not create chances. The bloke should not start except in those circumstances when we're just playing defensive football in the front third.

Unless he starts at right-back, which I still think may be plausible (especially in lieu of any other decent right-back) but I understand why you think it isn't.

Either way, it should be Kruse/Burns/the Ikon starting at right-wing, and then when the game opens up and the opposition are tired, Leckie is an option.



Not bad. I'm just unsure about Juric.



Against quality opposition, it has to be Rogic. Mooy is fine against crappy Asian teams. But I still think Mooy is too slow and not technically good enough (not in Rogic's league, in any event). He is the type of player who thrives against average opposition. We haven't seen him against top-notch opposition. He needs to move to Europe ASAP and prove otherwise.



The CDMs need some degree of technical ability. Do you remember when Jedinak and Holland played as the CDM pairing in a WCQ a few years ago? I can't remember the opposition. It might have been Oman. We couldn't get the ball out of defence and it looked as if the opposition would constantly pinch it off us in defensive midfield. In fact, they did just that often enough.

Very dangerous to have two you can't play the ball around quickly.

You need one fast, highly technical CDM. Antonis or Luongo fit the bill nicely enough. In theory, you can play two such players and, if they're good enough defensively (even if they're a bit smaller), you might have you best possible side capable of defending well and most capable of attacking well.

But, in ordinary circumstances, I advocate one fast, highly technical CDM and one who is technically solid and defensively excellent to break up (e.g. Irvine, perhaps Lyden or Degenek).



Agreed.



All good. You raise some very good points. It makes for interesting reading and it's enjoyable to engage with it.

No, he is not.

Mooy is a handy player. What he does well is he makes himself look excellent against lacklustre opposition. When Mooy has acres of space against slow defenders, he plays world class passes and scores some nice goals.

Against quality opposition, the jury is still out. Mooy needs to the leave the A-League ASAP and go to Europe.

So far he has played at Bolton and St Mirrens and been less than ordinary. One of the common criticisms when he was there is that he was too slow.

I'm sorry but I'm sceptical about the idea that a dude in his mid-20s, who was previously average, has suddenly become a class act on the basis of some world-class performances against A-League teams and Bangladesh.

Why do I think this? Even in the A-League and even against Bangladesh, there were moments early on when Mooy looked far too slow and gave up the ball. This was against Bangladesh. Then he grew in confidence, eradicated the mistakes and was involved in some magnificent passages of play. But he still looked too slow.

The worry is that against world-class opposition, when Mooy is not afforded 5 minutes on the ball, but is constantly hassled by defenders who know how to shut him down, he will become a massive liability.

Rogic is another story.

Rogic is the most gifted Australian footballer (at least not still in his teens) since Harry Kewell.

Rogic's passing is magnificent and he has the vision and technique to get past opponents in all manner of ways. No other Australian player not still in his teens (including Mooy) can do that.

For the thousandth time, the the defensive ability of a CAM is not a primary skill. It's an added bonus. Rogic does not need to be able to do this. But as it happens, he has improved. Watch him at Celtic.

The idea of Rogic not starting at CAM because Mooy is (unless Mooy proves himself in Europe) is ludicrous.

if you looks at my squads you will see i have rogic as a CAM. and yes CAM's need to defend and put pressure on - the game has changed in the 20 years since it was ok for CAM's to just hang around the front box. rogic is a turnstile, and he still cracking the first team at celtic - it's not a done deal yet, there are still gaps.

no one doubts rogics potential, or his flashes of brilliance. it's just there are some gaps in his game and he is only good for 60-70 minutes.

i want him on the pitch - starting, but im not kidding myself about where he is at. I watch a lot of his games.

lacklustre opposition. lets have a think about how HAL teams might go against SPL teams before we go down that old road. now imagine mooy was in a team like celtic - a team that's a few steps ahead of melbourne city.

i agree mooy needs to go o/s. im also not blind to the gaps in his game, his slow pace is one and the time he gets on the ball makes his job a bit easier.

And who has rogic performed against, pub teams in scotland ? only one goal in 13 for the socceroos as well

Mooys record in the a-league is almost unseen from any other play in the leagues history

But Rogic doesn't just hang around the front box. He's not great at defending and isn't as good as Luongo or Mooy, but it's not as if he does nothing.

The point is that Rogic's ability on the ball surpasses that of both Luongo and Mooy by so much (literally best we've had since Kewell) that it's foolhardy to leave him out.

I agree that at the minute his engine isn't big enough. Hopefully by the time Russia comes around he has been doing very well over the course of 90 minutes for a while. In any event, we have so many midfield options that I see no problem with him playing until the hour mark, perhaps the 70 minute mark, and then being replaced by Mooy, Luongo or whomever.

We don't know how A-League teams would go against SPL opposition.

What we do know is that players in the A-League have been afforded far too much space and players like Taggart have found it piss easy to score. Then they go to Europe and do terribly because all of a sudden they are up against teams who know how to defend.

I think the A-League has improved insofar as a lot of teams are far better at moving the ball around the middle and up front than they used to be. However A-League teams are still in the Dark Ages in terms of defending and 1 vs 1 ability. For this reason, talented youngsters are still best advised to leave it as young as possible if they wish to have a chance of becoming world class footballers.

If you really want to compare the SPL with the A-League, you could do worse than to look at how Mooy went at St. Mirren's versus how he has been doing at Melbourne City.

In my opinion, the problem with Mooy is that he is another of those players who looks great in the A-League but has big problems elsewhere in his game which are unmasked against high quality opposition. As we agree, he needs to go overseas to prove that this is not indeed the case (or to improve those weaknesses).

I think Rogic does not have those weaknesses. A large degree of this comes down to the Rogic's technical ability. Whereas Mooy will likely struggle against top quality opposition, Rogic will match it and possibly even surpass it.

Edited by quickflick: 8/3/2016 12:48:06 AM