walnuts
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
Visits: 0
|
Wasn't sure where to post this - happy for mods to move it but it's basically an AFL journo saying that part of the appeal of sports like football and NRL are the 'eternal hope' that a team can overhaul a deficit right towards the end, and that players are rewarded for being 'close enough' in AFL. Just an interesting point of view - especially considering the suggestion a few weeks ago that 'sokkah needs bigger goals so that people don't get bored' Quote:[size=9]The AFL should ditch the behind and stick with goals[/size]The behind is to the AFL what the five-cent piece is to the hip-pocket: past its use-by date and becoming increasing irrelevant, writes Jack Kerr. The treasured pastime of most AFL fans - or at least the ones crazed enough to call up a talkback station, write a syndicated newspaper column and/or sit on the league's rules committee - is to dream up big changes to the laws of the game. So let me throw my hat into the ring and suggest the game do something about its most unsightly feature. I'm talking about the behind. The late Uruguayan journalist Eduardo Galeano once wrote that the goal is the orgasm of a football match. What, you might ask yourself, would he make of the behind - the score you get in Australian rules football for not really scoring? Not a whole lot, I'd imagine. A behind is worth 1/6th of a goal. Yet its actual value is far less. In all but a dozen AFL games last season, points made absolutely no impact on who actually won the match. Yes, of 206 games, 194 were won by the team that scored the most goals. That's 94.2 per cent. It wasn't always like that. A century ago, in the 1915 VFL season, that figure was significantly lower: 88.2 per cent (67 of 76 games.) So behinds have gone from being a deciding factor in about 1/8th of games to barely 1/20th of games. Or to put it in another, economical, way: the behind has become the five-cent piece of the AFL. Occasionally useful, but well past its use-by date, and now mostly just cluttering things up. Behinds have become so worthless that teams just started giving them away last decade. So much so that the AFL acted to clamp down on "rushed" behinds - defenders sending the ball through the goalmouth for a minor score (in order to receive a goal kick). So why have behinds become such an insignificance? In the age of indoor stadiums, improved ball technology and uber-professionalisation, kicking it through the big ones has become a much improved artform. Data compiled by the likes of Matter of Stats has found the conversion rate - that is, the ratio of goals to behinds - has gone through the roof since the rules of the game were first drawn up. Hence we get higher scoring games (even if that has trailed off a little in recent, tactically-nuanced decades). But with high-scoring games also come blowouts. And blowouts are further accentuated by behinds. "A point for trying" sounds charitable. It gives a sport otherwise hyped on its acts of bravery, daring and warrior-like intensity a hint of pass the parcel. But in the language of AFL socialism, the behind actually entrenches disadvantage. Rather than being a handout to poorly performing teams with the yips, the behind rewards the profligacy of the elite. While points rarely decide the winner, they do accentuate a leading team's advantage, the majority of the time. Take last year's final between Richmond and North Melbourne, which the Kangaroos ended up winning by one goal and 11 points. What could have been a one-goal lead became, essentially, a three-goal lead. Or May's clash between West Coast and Geelong. Six goals separated them, but the Eagles got an additional four-goal buffer thanks to their massive haul of points: 24 to four. This should also have the accountants at the AFL worried. Bigger leads mean more "junk time" at the end of matches, and junk time is a very bad spectacle. Cue the theatre-goers heading for the exit, and viewers at home switching off. One reason television broadcasters love rugby league and are prepared to pay record prices for a sport that attracts relatively small crowds is that blowouts are rare. Games that are tight to the end, or where a lead can be erased in the blink of an eye, keep viewers glued to their sets until the very end. Hence better ratings, and a better chance of getting viewers sticking around for the next show. Part of the torture of soccer is that the leading team is never rarely safe until the final whistle. It may be a furphy that "two-nil is the most dangerous scoreline", but it is true that that scoreline can be wiped out in a few very sloppy minutes. So hope lingers eternal. Australian rules football, in creating a meritocratic system where dominance up front is nearly always reflected on the scoreboard, has killed part of that drama. Even the classic thriller with one team ahead by a few points in the dying minutes would have extra spice if both teams were still looking for the final, winning goal, rather than one team trying to shut the game down. Even before this season has begun, I've heard a number of angry commentators bemoaning players who can't kick straight. Strangely, these players are actually being rewarded for that. Twelve times last season, they actually won matches. "It's pretty generous that you get a point for missing a goal," the AFL announced (or at least tweeted) in 2014. Yes, indeed it is. The behind is to the AFL what the five-cent piece is to the hip-pocket. And like that piece of shrapnel, there are good arguments for getting rid of it. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-17/kerr-the-afl-should-get-rid-of-the-behind/7247012
|
|
|
|
Outonthefull
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 501,
Visits: 0
|
Been saying this for years.
The only time games like netball, basketball and AFL are exciting is if the scores are close in the last 5 minutes.
Then it's exciting.
The beauty of football is you can be down 2 with 3 minutes to play and still be in it.
These AFL clowns will never EVER understand that.
|
|
|
azzaMVFC
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.3K,
Visits: 0
|
The only sport in the world where you get rewarded for missing the goals :D
|
|
|
Oblivious Troll
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 737,
Visits: 0
|
azzaMVFC wrote:The only sport in the world where you get rewarded for missing the goals :D If GAA you get a point for above the bar and between the posts.
Its a game for everyone. Its not pale, male, or stale. It transcends race, gender, economic status. Its for everyone. - Tal Karp
|
|
|
Outonthefull
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 501,
Visits: 0
|
Oblivious Troll wrote:azzaMVFC wrote:The only sport in the world where you get rewarded for missing the goals :D If GAA you get a point for above the bar and between the posts. The comments are also throwing in darts and archery. Hi 5's all round for the AFL blokes for coming up with those 2.
|
|
|
Heineken
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 49K,
Visits: 0
|
AFL is a proper joke of a sport.
WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

|
|
|
crimsoncrusoe
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.9K,
Visits: 0
|
Get rid of the behinds and add a goal mouth like in Gallic football for Extra points and they might be onto something. Then use a round ball so they can properly bounce and kick the darn thing. Whoever thought of bouncing an oval ball?What a dipstick!
Do all that and they might be set for worldwide interest.
Edited by crimsoncrusoe: 17/3/2016 01:21:44 PM
|
|
|
Outonthefull
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 501,
Visits: 0
|
crimsoncrusoe wrote: Whoever thought of bouncing an oval ball?What a dipstick!
That is an interesting question though. How did the egg ball shape used in League, AFL and Union evolve. Was it deliberate? Was it for handling? Did they get a cheap deal on misshapen soccer balls?
|
|
|
melbourne_terrace
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
Oblivious Troll wrote:azzaMVFC wrote:The only sport in the world where you get rewarded for missing the goals :D If GAA you get a point for above the bar and between the posts. That's not missing. Going for a single in GAA is a tactical choice. Some teams will just choose to shoot for singles from distance rather than risk getting nothing by going for the proper goal. No different to rugby when teams play for penalties and drop goals instead of going for the try.
Viennese Vuck
|
|
|
melbourne_terrace
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
crimsoncrusoe wrote:Get rid of the behinds and add a goal mouth like in Gallic football for Extra points and they might be onto something. Then use a round ball so they can properly bounce and kick the darn thing. Whoever thought of bouncing an oval ball?What a dipstick!
Do all that and they might be set for worldwide interest.
Edited by crimsoncrusoe: 17/3/2016 01:21:44 PM GAA football is miles better than AFL. Think it would be better with proper tackling but it's still a more better flowing game.
Viennese Vuck
|
|
|
petszk
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.2K,
Visits: 0
|
Couple of other suggestions; 1. Leave the point posts there, but only use the points as a tie breaker if the goals are even (a bit like away goals in a two-legged match). 2. As per 1, but the team with the LEAST points wins the tie breaker - that is if the goals are even, the team that has the least missed shots at goal wins.
|
|
|
Davo1985
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.6K,
Visits: 1
|
Outonthefull wrote:Been saying this for years.
The only time games like netball, basketball and AFL are exciting is if the scores are close in the last 5 minutes.
Then it's exciting.
The beauty of football is you can be down 2 with 3 minutes to play and still be in it.
These AFL clowns will never EVER understand that. Case in point the ECL this morning. Juve up 2-0 and in the dying minutes Bayern leveled it off then went on and scored 2 more goals within a 15 min period.
|
|
|
SWandP
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
|
Introduce the Gaelic Football goal. Then as time goes on, gradually work toward integration.
In 200 years AFL journos will be able to claim they invented Eire.
|
|
|
Sime11
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 47,
Visits: 0
|
deduct a point if a "behind" is scored....
we might see some minus scores, then you know a team is shit lol
|
|
|
RedshirtWilly
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7.4K,
Visits: 0
|
melbourne_terrace wrote:crimsoncrusoe wrote:Get rid of the behinds and add a goal mouth like in Gallic football for Extra points and they might be onto something. Then use a round ball so they can properly bounce and kick the darn thing. Whoever thought of bouncing an oval ball?What a dipstick!
Do all that and they might be set for worldwide interest.
Edited by crimsoncrusoe: 17/3/2016 01:21:44 PM GAA football is miles better than AFL. Think it would be better with proper tackling but it's still a more better flowing game. Man if AFL overhauled to GAA rules i'd be all over it Still prefer Hurling but will be happy with a Gaelic hybrid
|
|
|
biscuitman1871
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.4K,
Visits: 0
|
|
|
|
redcup
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3K,
Visits: 0
|
Preaching to the converted, but if some journo wants to scrap anything in the game to make it more popular to other countries, they could begin by using a ball-shaped ball, a rectangular pitch, a push in the back = a free even if you stick your knees between some oppositions shoulder blades when you jump up, get rid of shepherding, have a designated rectangular, small sized goal that's actually guarded, give each team half the pitch to defend, stop players wrestling in the dirt like a pack of dogs fighting for a bone - in other words just scrap the whole stupid lot and play a game that 95% of the world has been brought up with. I actually don't mind people watching and enjoying it, but stop treating it as important FFS!
Edited by redcup: 17/3/2016 04:24:33 PM
|
|
|
crimsoncrusoe
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.9K,
Visits: 0
|
melbourne_terrace wrote:Oblivious Troll wrote:azzaMVFC wrote:The only sport in the world where you get rewarded for missing the goals :D If GAA you get a point for above the bar and between the posts. That's not missing. Going for a single in GAA is a tactical choice. Some teams will just choose to shoot for singles from distance rather than risk getting nothing by going for the proper goal. No different to rugby when teams play for penalties and drop goals instead of going for the try. If kicking for a single is a tactical choice,I would be interested to know how many teams win using that tactic. With regard to Rugby,A penalty is worth a lot more than one sixth of a try.It's 3 points and a try is 5.so that is why teams are happy to take penalties. In fact in Rugby League a field goal is worth 1 point and a try 4 .With a conversion 2.So that would be a more viable sport to keep tactically kicking field goals. But of course they don't because it's a totally stupid idea. If you can't score a try within six visits to an opponents try line ,you are seriously hopeless. I am sure the same goes for AFL. If you are close enough to kick a single ,you should go for goal surely.
|
|
|
melbourne_terrace
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
crimsoncrusoe wrote:melbourne_terrace wrote:Oblivious Troll wrote:azzaMVFC wrote:The only sport in the world where you get rewarded for missing the goals :D If GAA you get a point for above the bar and between the posts. That's not missing. Going for a single in GAA is a tactical choice. Some teams will just choose to shoot for singles from distance rather than risk getting nothing by going for the proper goal. No different to rugby when teams play for penalties and drop goals instead of going for the try. If kicking for a single is a tactical choice,I would be interested to know how many teams win using that tactic. With regard to Rugby,A penalty is worth a lot more than one sixth of a try.It's 3 points and a try is 5.so that is why teams are happy to take penalties. In fact in Rugby League a field goal is worth 1 point and a try 4 .With a conversion 2.So that would be a more viable sport to keep tactically kicking field goals. But of course they don't because it's a totally stupid idea. If you can't score a try within six visits to an opponents try line ,you are seriously hopeless. I am sure the same goes for AFL. If you are close enough to kick a single ,you should go for goal surely. Goals are far more rare in GAA than in AFL, almost as are as Association Football. In the 2015 All Ireland final, no goals were scored and the game was decided by points. Advancing the ball close enough for a shot on the goal is rather hard, you can't just bomb it in like AFL. Thus singles often decide games and therefore it's a smart tactic to aim for the big sticks if you're in space with about 20-40 yards between you and the goal.
Viennese Vuck
|
|
|
ducky42
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
|
Extra time
|
|
|
con m
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.3K,
Visits: 0
|
The AFL needs more rule changes to make the game work better
|
|
|
Cassio!!
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 63,
Visits: 0
|
remove 10 points each behind then i would watch
|
|
|
Eldar
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.2K,
Visits: 0
|
Make the use of hands illegal, use a round ball, put a cross bar on the goal and make the field rectangular.......then I reckon I could get into it.
Beaten by Eldar
|
|
|
Crusader
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.8K,
Visits: 0
|
VFL fans don't understand that they can change their rules every year because nobody gives a shit*, football can't do the same because it is played all over the world. It is so cringeworthy when they try to pretend their sport is important.
*This is also necessary because their game is shit.
|
|
|
Joffa
|
|
Group: Moderators
Posts: 66K,
Visits: 0
|
Interesting conversation topic but nothing to do with Football, belongs in Extra time, sorry.
|
|
|
Oblivious Troll
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 737,
Visits: 0
|
RedshirtWilly wrote:melbourne_terrace wrote:crimsoncrusoe wrote:Get rid of the behinds and add a goal mouth like in Gallic football for Extra points and they might be onto something. Then use a round ball so they can properly bounce and kick the darn thing. Whoever thought of bouncing an oval ball?What a dipstick!
Do all that and they might be set for worldwide interest.
Edited by crimsoncrusoe: 17/3/2016 01:21:44 PM GAA football is miles better than AFL. Think it would be better with proper tackling but it's still a more better flowing game. Man if AFL overhauled to GAA rules i'd be all over it Still prefer Hurling but will be happy with a Gaelic hybrid You're right about Hurling - it's a wonderful game to watch when played well. However. when the players are not so good it can be a bit chronic. The thing about people who grow up playing hurling (eg in Kilkenny and Cork) is that they tend to be, on my limited observation, adept at all ball sports.
Its a game for everyone. Its not pale, male, or stale. It transcends race, gender, economic status. Its for everyone. - Tal Karp
|
|
|
fatboi-v-
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 355,
Visits: 0
|
i love ALF but they should be forced to play the whole game and not come off for a rest a drink and a hot massage every 5 minutes
|
|
|
Soft News
|
|
Group: Banned Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
|
Gambling. International exotic betting on behinds scored will mean this proposal will not work
|
|
|
biscuitman1871
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.4K,
Visits: 0
|
Soft News wrote:Gambling. International exotic betting on behinds scored will mean this proposal will not work Do they pay up on the bets when they lose?
|
|
|
Jeff W
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 315,
Visits: 0
|
This Kerr article about Aussie Rules reminds me of inane and moronic Graham Cornes articles 'discussing' Soccer. People who don't follow or like a sport and know jack shit about why certain aspects of that sport exist should just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing themselves.
Historically, Aussie Rules originally started with just two posts and the only score being a goal. To encourage more attacking play and scoring shorts, the 'behind' was introduced by adding two smaller posts either side of the goalposts. Initially, the 'behind' was for tiebreaker situations but in a short space of time it became officially part of the scoring system. Behinds make draws very rare in Aussie Rules and in close games mean a team can go from winning to losing or vice versa with just one kick at goal. The kick-in after a behind is also tactically important. All nuances that a non-follower wouldn't understand nor appreciate.
The argument that removing it would create less blowouts is also swings and roundabouts nonsense. The 2008 AFL Grand Final between Hawthorn (18.7-115) and an inaccurate Geelong (11.23-89) would've seen the scores further apart without behinds. The 1977 Grand Final draw between North Melbourne (9.22-76) and Collingwood (10.16-76) is well remembered in Victoria for the amount of behinds kicked, and removing the behinds would've changed the result and the team that eventually won the premiership. Same thing happened in all 3 drawn Grand Finals. St Kilda would've won the 2010 premiership instead of Collingwood if only goals were recorded (well maybe they should be removed in that case :D).
As for Rugby League, when you go through the 108 years of NSWRL/NRL Grand Final scores, just under a half were blowouts or one-sided contests on the scoreboard. For every cracker like last year's, you have a blowout like the Grand Final the year before when Souths won 30-6. It's just the nature of the various sports. You don't stupidly argue that conversions should be removed just to make one-sided games on the scoreboard closer.
|
|
|