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Eniri
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+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. I did think of this momentarily before posting but I skipped it. You definitely have a point though, Sydney and Melbourne are diverse enough in Ethnicity and with enough population to support a particular ethnic team, agreed. I do think you are drawing a very long bow to describe a team like City as an ethnic team, thats a pretty narrow technical definition but otherwise yeah I see your point on Melb and Syd at least.
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aussie scott21
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I'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.
SM would be a niche team also.
MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club.
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HortoMagiko
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+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. Emirati club even :)
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
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+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. Emirati club even :) Need to broaden their base. Insular against Liverpool and man utd supporters.
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paulc
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+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . 
In a resort somewhere
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . So youbstand by everything in the crawford report? All of it? Or just you fav parts lol
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service.
In a resort somewhere
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aussie scott21
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Yeah quoting Crawford to defend this , but ignores when it said the league should be independent from the FFA
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
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+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce.
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button.
In a resort somewhere
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paulc
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+xYeah quoting Crawford to defend this , but ignores when it said the league should be independent from the FFA That's not the topic of discussion.
In a resort somewhere
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
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+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member?
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree.
In a resort somewhere
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service. The soceroos manager began as a junior at that club, played his way into the senior team and won trophies... and then coached smfc to trophies... smfc is inextricably linked to our past present and future (at least until russia lol). Sorry i know it hurts your butt pauly. And its not all doom and gloom. We got an asian cup out of the dirty greek. *Ffa could pass a law that any Australian citizens working at smfc with "a particular dna type" be removed... probablly breaks a few human rights laws though...just sayin..
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service. The soceroos manager began as a junior at that club, played his way into the senior team and won trophies... and then coached smfc to trophies... smfc is inextricably linked to our past present and future (at least until russia lol). Sorry i know it hurts your butt pauly. And its not all doom and gloom. We got an asian cup out of the dirty greek. *Ffa could pass a law that any Australian citizens working at smfc with "a particular dna type" be removed... probablly breaks a few human rights laws though...just sayin.. What an individual like Ange does is not relevant to the discussion of mono ethnic clubs who refuse to broaden their base and the danger therein. Wasn't it you under an alias that spent post after post, page after page telling us that Greeks were from a superior race? I think this is what hurts you when you're constantly reminded they simply are not.
In a resort somewhere
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RBBAnonymous
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop.
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scotty21
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paulc
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary.
In a resort somewhere
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HortoMagiko
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+x+x+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service. The soceroos manager began as a junior at that club, played his way into the senior team and won trophies... and then coached smfc to trophies... smfc is inextricably linked to our past present and future (at least until russia lol). Sorry i know it hurts your butt pauly. And its not all doom and gloom. We got an asian cup out of the dirty greek. *Ffa could pass a law that any Australian citizens working at smfc with "a particular dna type" be removed... probablly breaks a few human rights laws though...just sayin.. What an individual like Ange does is not relevant to the discussion of mono ethnic clubs who refuse to broaden their base and the danger therein. Ange is forever inextricably linked to smfc. He is a smfc #product. Id agree if you werent talking specifically about the club that built him lol. Hes more than relevant to this conversation, as much of a thorn in your butthole that is.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic??
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paulc
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How's that scotty boy if I'm the one laughing because you bitters are still squirming that you are not getting your way with the league. lol Just remember where your delusions sit in the real world.
In a resort somewhere
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aufc_ole
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+x+xYeah quoting Crawford to defend this , but ignores when it said the league should be independent from the FFA That's not the topic of discussion. Translation: That doesn't suit my agenda, I'm just picking the parts that do
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport.
In a resort somewhere
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paulc
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+x+x+xYeah quoting Crawford to defend this , but ignores when it said the league should be independent from the FFA That's not the topic of discussion. Translation: That doesn't suit my agenda, I'm just picking the parts that do Translation: The Crawford Report is very detailed and covers many areas. Let's not divert to a different topic that is irrelevant just because you say.
In a resort somewhere
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+x+xI'll meet you in the middle. MC are a niche team because if there connection with Manchester City. This limits fan potential IMO as many Australian have an English team that is not Manchester City.SM would be a niche team also. MC may become popular in the future but I don't think they are the same as any other Auatralian franchise because they are a subsidiary of an English club. At least there are all nationalities attending their games, not just one out of 200 as was and still is the case with the mono ethnic clubs. You need to understand the difference. South Melb Hellas are a Greek supported club with an entire board of Greek heritage. That's what they like and want. Everything else is lip service. The soceroos manager began as a junior at that club, played his way into the senior team and won trophies... and then coached smfc to trophies... smfc is inextricably linked to our past present and future (at least until russia lol). Sorry i know it hurts your butt pauly. And its not all doom and gloom. We got an asian cup out of the dirty greek. *Ffa could pass a law that any Australian citizens working at smfc with "a particular dna type" be removed... probablly breaks a few human rights laws though...just sayin.. What an individual like Ange does is not relevant to the discussion of mono ethnic clubs who refuse to broaden their base and the danger therein. Wasn't it you under an alias that spent post after post, page after page telling us that Greeks were from a superior race? I think this is what hurts you when you're constantly reminded they simply are not. Lol no ive never used an alias, i wasnt euro2004, gypsy boy. Im hardly a racist like you and he are. Besides he said greeks and bedouiins were the same. Id never in my right mind concoct an idiotic argumrnt like that. Stick to the point gypsy boy...your hellas hate game suffers when you get off topic.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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HortoMagiko
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+xYeah quoting Crawford to defend this , but ignores when it said the league should be independent from the FFA That's not the topic of discussion. Translation: That doesn't suit my agenda, I'm just picking the parts that do Lol. Paulys crawford mixtape. He just likes the hits.
Is Wellington diverse? Dont know, however this is a club that has no historical or existing link to a specific migrant group - Rusty Einstein
The negative stereotypes are perpetuated by people who either have no idea or are serving a vested interest; neither viewpoint should get anywhere near running Australian football - Ange Postecoglou
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument.
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Nachoman
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+xI never dreamed there was an issue with clubs still aligned with Italians. Surely the Italians are now viewed as good ethnics, not like all that other rabble constantly at war with each other. Sure did you succumb to the pressure of wanting to be true blue aussie ? or is that only when afl player comes to a school coaching clinic and tells all the italian, vietnamese and polish kids your not a real australian unless you play AFL
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paulc
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a myriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. But I guess you haven't learnt that logic yet. 
In a resort somewhere
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RBBAnonymous
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFrom the flood of responses I have to assume that paulc has commented about this issue before and the arguments got kind of heated. This was a relatively sane article, oldish, but the responses have been so aggro I'm guessing everyone here has done this dance before yeah? Well on the article. Seems like a clear and straightforward point. Teams are divided from each other geographically, giving fans from the same area the ability to form a bond around their local team (and get to games). Teams divided ethnically cut down on that supporter base. If people don't feel like the local team really represents them they will be less likely to get involved (serbian whos local team is croatian, Turk whos local team is Greek, Skip whos local team is anything). Mono ethnic teams make a lot of sense when football is small, and you struggle to capture even a tiny percentage of the populations interest. That identity can bring people on board, in many cases more than a broader supporter base would have achieved when popularity is so low. If you want to increase to a broader appeal and start challenging other codes for support it hampers you a lot. Its just a poor basis for large support, and the tricky bit is that it is in Australia often a good strategy for smaller support. This means if you just 'let the results sort it out' you end up with a poor foundation for future growth and connection with the community. That is without going into the arguments over divisions, violence or any of that. Just from a future of the game in Australia the rules seem sensible to me. How can you bring a third team into Melbourne? SM give that possibilty and the added bonus of derbies. I can understand your point but the fact is Melbourne has 2 broad based teams already. One is an ethnic team MC, because they are a branch of the English club, therefor English. If people arent supporting MV or MC why would they support a 3rd broad based team? If Canberra got a team and they were Canberra FC Croatians then I would agree but not in the markets that already have teams. It wont happen in Perth but Adelaide City should be a contender. It wont happen in Brisbane either as they already have an ethnic team and need a broadbased team like Strikers. Sydney could have it but I think you could also have teams in geographic locations like Shire and SWS. So I disagree. We will not recreate WSW. Maybe the league needs more niche teams..... who own or have great stadium deals. Your "we have all changed, please believe us" pleas do not hold water. There's no evidence of their will to diversify. Their inclusion mixed in with broad based clubs did not work in the NSL either. There is an onus for you to show evidence they have changed for the betterment of football. The last Melb Croatia game you still heard chants of Cro-art-tzi-ar so their mono ethnic bias is still on their radar. Croatian signs and then of course their shirts does not show a desire to broaden their base. The mono ethnic clubs have been mentioned in the Crawford Report as an issue to fix. It has been fixed whilst the HAL doesn't have that baggage. It will be back to square one where we were before (or close enough) if they mix it again in top flight. They're bitching now because they want a share of the spoils, the very spoils that were gained because of their exclusion. Going backwards is not the answer. Football deserves better . Melbourne Knights is an Australian club formed by Croatian migrants. They won't stop you from joining the club Paulc.If you want to join they will let you. Just like I can join Sydney FC if I wanted, but I choose not to. I hate those cunce. They would be very upset if they weren't referred to as a Croatian club or at least a Croatian backed club. I loved their dedicated Croatian music, their Croatian dinner dances, their Croatian calendars they handed out, Croatian chants, Croatian signs etc and Croatian flags all made me feel very welcome and is why they were and still are flocked by all demographics of different nationalities. Now where's that blue button. Ohhh when were you a member? That's irrelevant. I see you don't disagree. No I don't disagree. What's your point. Some people don't like chess clubs either. Successful clubs in the A-league like you have mentioned will appeal to a broad section of the community. These clubs like you said don't. So how successful do you believe they will be in the A-league. Ohhhhhh I think I heard the penny drop. I'm happy you don't disagree with me. My point is (using your analogy) chess does not generate a significant bias to one mono ethnic community. We'll never know how successful the mono ethnic clubs will be in the A-League until they join the broader football community and help work towards its growth which I'm not holding my breath in waiting because it's not likely to happen for at least another generation going by the evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. So by that rationale they will never be successful in the A-league. That means they will never be promoted in a P&R environment. Do you follow the logic?? I follow the logic that they will NEVER be given the opportunity until they change their ways and work for the betterment of the sport. The opportunity is P&R just like in every other league in the world. If they are in the A-league they are there on merit. Being there on merit for every club in the A-league is for the betterment of the sport. Therefore this argument is and always will be about P&R. A club who is in the A-league will be there because they deserve to be. That concludes my destruction of Paulc using a logical argument. Your destruction doesn't cover that getting to play in top flight also includes a miriad of other factors, other than simply by picking up enough points. Of course they need to satisfy criteria like stadia, players, funding, training and development etc etc. Like all clubs who want to be in the A-league. Anything else?
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